Teaching in Exile: University Mulls Termination of Professor, as DA ‘Rejects’ Criminal Charges from Campus Protests

Pictured here at the Humboldt County courthouse in May, Professor Rouhollah Aghasaleh had anticipated criminal charges, but those allegations were “rejected” by the District Attorney's office along with 26 other cases stemming from the April 30 Cal Poly campus protest police sweep. [Photo by Ryan Hutson]

Pictured here at the Humboldt County courthouse in May, Professor Rouhollah Aghasaleh had anticipated criminal charges, but those allegations were “rejected” by the District Attorney’s office along with 26 other cases stemming from the April 30 Cal Poly campus protest police sweep. [Photo by Ryan Hutson]

As classes resume at Cal Poly Humboldt, a professor known for their outspoken nature and support of student expression took to the streets to teach their class “in exile” after being temporarily suspended by the University for a second time. Colleagues and students alike were caught off guard by the University’s extension of Dr. Rouhollah Aghasaleh’s temporary suspension, particularly in light of criminal charges suggested by the University Police being squashed by the District Attorney’s office after the Pro-Palestine campus protest arrests in April. 

Still, although the college professor remains under a microscope while being investigated by the school, being unable to teach on campus and prohibited from even speaking to students, they insist on doing what they feel they are called to do for the community – which is to teach – even though they could get fired. 

When asked why they felt compelled to teach the class publicly, in spite of the suspension from campus, Rouhollah Aghasaleh said after concluding the first class “in exile” across the street from Cal Poly, “This is not about me, this is about wellbeing of campus and community.” Professor Ahgasaleh explained, “This Fall, unfortunately I was unable to officially be on the schedule and teach on campus, and so I am using public spaces and whatever resources that I have.”.  

A separate investigation into Professor Aghasaleh’s conduct while on campus during the Pro-Palestine protests that took place at Cal Poly Humboldt at the end of April remains ongoing, being conducted by the University. 

On campus, the Professor’s office door is locked, and a substitute lecturer has been asked to fill in for the Professor, for now. 

Alleging that the professor was in violation of the State of California Education Code for unprofessional conduct” and “failure or refusal to perform the normal and reasonable duties of the position,” the Faculty Affairs Office at Cal Poly holds that Rouhollah Aghasaleh’s “unauthorized presence in and misuse of University property (Siemens Hall and Nelson Hall East at Cal Poly Humboldt),” occurred when the professor was alleged to have been inside either building despite directives from campus police not to be there. 

Aghasaleh does not agree.

A letter from the Humboldt County District Attorney’s office confirms that all charges against Rouhollah Aghasaleh, brought by the University Police, were dismissed “in the interest of justice” after a review of the evidence related to the April 30th arrests. 

A letter from the Humboldt County District Attorney’s office confirms that all charges against Rouhollah Aghasaleh, brought by the University Police, were dismissed “in the interest of justice” after a review of the evidence related to the April 30th arrests.

The professor of graduate level courses at the School of Education at Cal Poly Humboldt remains prohibited from accessing campus at all while the investigation is ongoing, and could face additional punishment or termination from employment if found guilty at the conclusion of the University’s investigation. On top of that, any misstep during the period of temporary suspension could add to the University’s claims against the professor. According to the University’s correspondence with the teacher, punishments beyond the current suspension could include unspecified “corrective or disciplinary action, up to and including termination of employment.

SILENCE FOR SAFETY

With each suspension renewal letter, Professor Rouhallah Aghasaleh is reminded that according to the University their conduct during the week of protest at Cal Poly is being investigated to determine if they negatively impacted the “safety of persons in the Cal Poly Humboldt communityor contributed to thedisruption of programs and/or operations” on campus during that week. 

The notice, signed by Associate Vice President (AVP) for Faculty Affairs Kimberly N. White, briefly explained the nature of the suspension. In the latest correspondence from White, the professor is advised, “This temporary suspension will automatically end after 60 days from the effective date of the extension (October 28, 2024) or upon service of formal notice of disciplinary action, whichever first occurs, unless it is extended or ended earlier by the President.” 

In a further email to Aghasaleh, White explained to the professor that they had been placed on temporary suspensionbased on information the University has received that you willfully disrupted University operations by your unauthorized presence in and misuse of University property (Siemens and Nelson Hall) in violation to directives from both University administration and University police to leave those buildings.” 

In that email to Aghasaleh, White asserted that during the course of that week the professor had allegedly “violated campus directives” with their unauthorized presence on campus, including with [Aghasaleh’s] arrest on April 30, in which [they] again violated the directives from University administration and University police directives to leave the area.” (Multiple email inquiries to faculty and the news department at Cal Poly have gone unanswered, despite deadline extensions in hopes of receiving feedback related to this matter.

In a recent letter addressed to AVP White from Professor Aghasaleh, it is pointed out by the teacher that at the outset of the protest on April 22, “there were 50-60 protestors occupying the Siemens Hall,” in contrast to on April 30, when at the time of the police sweep on campus, “only 12 students (and 18 community members) remained, seated peacefully in the quad, where they were calmly arrested without incident or injury.”  Aghasaleh wrote, “No arrests occurred inside the buildings. Comparing this with what we observed on the first night, I proudly take responsibility for minimizing both the potential harm and overall costs associated with the situation.” The professor has not yet received a reply from AVP White.  

A Humboldt County Corrections officer escorts Rouhollah Aghasaleh, PhD and Assistant Professor at Cal Poly Humboldt to a law enforcement van that took him to jail.

A Humboldt County Corrections officer escorts Rouhollah Aghasaleh, PhD and Assistant Professor at Cal Poly Humboldt to a law enforcement van that took them him to jail. [Photo by Mark McKenna]

A few teachers provided feedback for this reporting on the basis of anonymity as a precaution against professional repercussions, while others declined to comment altogether for the same reason. They explained that because they didn’t know why the University was pursuing an investigation in Aghasaleh’s case particularly after the criminal charges were rejected, they felt it was a valid concern to think that they themselves could be retaliated against by the school for speaking out in support of the professor’s actions. These teachers each expressed worry that by making themselves known as a supporter, that they too could be suspended or otherwise reprimanded and similarly accused of “unprofessional conduct” in the eyes of the administration.

Rouhollah Aghasaleh is not the only college professor or teacher disciplined for their involvement in student protests for Palestine which have engulfed campus communities from coast to coast. For example, a professor at the City College of New York was fired for his role in student-led protests and in California, a San Jose State professor was suspended after helping students who were demonstrating on campus and placed on administrative leave. In May, a Washington University professor was also suspended for their involvement in campus protests, and in June, a Chicago teacher at DePaul University was fired for her role in protests on campus. According to reporting by NPR in May, which reported that there “is no exact tally of how many professors have been arrested, according to the AAUP, but news stories and social media reports suggest the numbers are steadily -mounting.”

Dr. Aghasaleh is not alone in the frying pan. As some college staff members are being suspended or even fired for their involvement in student protests for Palestine, faculty members in the California University system, such as at UCLA and at UC Santa Cruz, have had union support in demonstrating alongside protesting students. Those demonstrations included demands for academic amnesty for student protestors, as well as amnesty for involved faculty who were at risk of receiving disciplinary action related to their presence at on-campus protests.   

A Cal Poly student advocating for Rouhollah Aghasaleh’s reinstatement wished to remain anonymous as they protested a social function welcoming teachers back to campus in Arctata, the week before classes resumed. [Photo by Ryan Hutson]

A Cal Poly student advocating for Rouhollah Aghasaleh’s reinstatement wished to remain anonymous as they protested a social function welcoming teachers back to campus in Arctata, the week before classes resumed. [Photo by Ryan Hutson]

As to the Professor’s union representation from California Faculty Association (CFA), Aghasaleh admits that the process has been frustrating, indicating that emails from CFA to the Faculty Affairs office have gone unanswered, and that correspondence to the University from legal counsel has also been ignored. Union representatives were also notably absent from a scheduled meeting with lawyers the University hired to investigate and interview Aghasaleh about the protests and their activities that week on campus, although Aghasaleh did have legal counsel present. 

Not only is the life-long teacher restricted from accessing campus until the closing of the University’s investigation, but the University has told the professor, “You are not to communicate with any students during this investigation,” in the first notice of suspension. 

PROTEST AND PROFESSIONALISM

We spoke with the professor at length to understand their situation, and what led up to their extended suspension from campus. Following several days of student activism on campus in violation of the school’s policy regulating such speech and actions, Rouhollah Aghasaleh, PhD described having made inroads with constructive dialogue, and had facilitated conversation between protesters and administrators, endeavoring to mediate a resolution to the student-led protest that did not involve further police activity on campus. 

Screengrab from the viral video capturing intense moments at Siemens Hall on April 22 at Cal poly, during the initial police response which injured a handful of students - one of them requiring emergency room attention for a head split injury thought to have been caused by a baton during the incident. <p data-wpview-marker=

Screengrab from the viral video capturing intense moments at Siemens Hall on April 22 at Cal poly, during the initial police response which injured a handful of students – one of them requiring emergency room attention for a head split injury thought to have been caused by a baton during the incident. [video footage by Ryan Hutson for Redheaded Blackbelt]

Despite the threat of arrest during the protests on campus, and the awareness that they were in violation of police orders by being there, the professor remained on site as tensions grew throughout the evening and into the early morning hours April 30 when arrests finally did happen, in order to maintain oversight as the situation escalated. 

Interviewed in late May, on the brink of an expected arraignment date that ultimately never happened, Rouhollah Aghasaleh spoke about why they returned to campus off and on through the week of protests for Palestine. “I got involved after I witnessed the students were assaulted on the night of April 22 at Siemens Hall and then as the protest continued,” Aghasaleh told us, “I was worried that the students will continue to be harmed by the forceful presence of law enforcement and campus and the threat that we continued to receive from the Chancellor’s Office and from the admin… .” 

The veteran of social movements, and passionate educator decided to remain accessible to the students who insisted on continuing the protest, being intent on advising them to de-escalate in order to arrive at a less violent conclusion than had occurred earlier that week. Reflecting on their objectives of trying to have a more productive dialogue between protesters and administrators, the teacher explained, “I facilitated some meetings between the students and the admin, and I was also worried about the students being assaulted by law enforcement. That’s why I stayed till the last minutes, and I got arrested along with the students.

Arrested alongside University Students at Cal Poly Humboldt, Rouhollah Aghasaleh PhD was arrested April 30th with the group of around 25 protesters remaining on campus within the blockaded space at the center of campus. [Video by Ryan Hutson]

Following news of the second extension to Ahgasaleh’s temporary suspension issued in April, a colleague explained that part of being an effective teacher is being available to the students, and supporting them as they grapple with complex subjects. 

Preferring to remain anonymous in order to avoid professional consequences, this teacher said, “I care about these issues anyway, so I’d still be showing up if I wasn’t a professor – if I was pumping gas, I would have shown up.” The teacher then noted, “my role, I just wanted to show up, and for the most part it just has a lot to do with being consistent in showing up, being seen.”  When asked if he thought Rouhollah Aghasaleh displayed “professionalism” by remaining on campus as alleged in the notice of temporary suspension from the University, the professor replied, He was totally 100% professional because he was there to support students on campus. So, part of our job is to protect them, not to only just teach them.” 

Reflecting on their arrest and involvement with students during the protests, Aghasaleh told us, “I think we need some systematic revision and reform in the way that we are engaged with the protests.” Having some experience with student organizing and protesting for social causes, Aghasaleh mused on ways that University faculty could better engage with students in this area. They said, “One of the things is that the Dean of Students, that office should be more proactively involved in student protests,” referencing Cal Poly’s Dean of Students, whose office’s stated mission is “to guide and educate students on campus policies, procedures, and expectations.”  

Aghasaleh added, “If I was a Dean of Students I would do frequent meetings with student clubs, organizations, do some training for them about their legal rights, things about their you know, how to do a protest, peacefully and effectively.” Underscoring that the idea of a political protest is to publicly “petition the Government for  a redress of grievances” and to generally spread awareness of an issue, again promoting the idea of peaceful protest, Aghasaleh added, “…because when you’re framed as a non peaceful protester, then your voice is not heard.”

A small group of protesters can be seen circled up sitting at the Cal Poly quad prepared to be arrested in protest.  Aghasaleh was arrested during a police response, with students and other protesters on April 30. [A screengrab from live video of the police sweep by Ryan Hutson for Redheaded Blackbelt] 

A small group of protesters can be seen circled up sitting at the Cal Poly quad prepared to be arrested in protest.  Aghasaleh was arrested during a police response, with students and other protesters on April 30. [A screengrab from live video of the police sweep by Ryan Hutson for Redheaded Blackbelt] 

Thinking back to the events leading up to his colleague’s arrest along with the students on campus, one Cal Poly professor we spoke with did not hold back criticism, questioning the goals of the University’s response in April. The teacher, who had been familiar with the protests on campus, questioned the response, saying, “If you really want to protect students, then probably not send 200 cops who are dressed up for a battle, a battle zone – …a 200 pound cop and full armor, gear and nightsticks, yelling at reporters, “clear the area, clear the area” …versus a student in their 20s, …who just sat around peacefully, right? If they’re really concerned about safety, then maybe the Dean of Students should have been there,” they said. 

Speculating as to the motivations and priorities of the University based on what had occurred that week in April, the Cal Poly professor surmised, “But [the University was] more concerned about retaking, you know, “retaking”…Siemens Hall, right – an inanimate piece of property.  They were more concerned about that than the safety and the well-being of students who were being dragged away by police officers…”

Aghasaleh is seen here at Cal Poly Humboldt on Friday April 26, during a tense moment between students and administrators who had arrived on campus to assess the degree of damage caused by the ongoing student protest. [Screengrab from footage by Ryan Hutson]

Aghasaleh is seen here at Cal Poly Humboldt on Friday April 26, during a tense moment between students and administrators who had arrived on campus to assess the degree of damage caused by the ongoing student protest. [Screengrab from footage by Ryan Hutson]

Reflecting on tense interactions between students and faculty on campus during the protests, the professor recalled, “Dean Crane personally acknowledged my efforts to protect both him and Provost Capps when tensions escalated. I was even criticized by some more radical protestors for unbarricading a building and defending members of the administration.” 

Addressing their obligations to be professional in conducting themselves as a representative of the school, Aghasaleh made clear that they believe that school employees “all share the same mission: to educate the next generation of citizens and professionals to serve our State, Country, and the Global community.” 

TEACHING IN EXILE

While the Professor still faces the outcome of the investigation by Cal Poly, Rouhollah Aghasaleh decided to persist with offering classes, and explained that continuing to serve in the role of teacher was important. The steadfast educator, being no stranger to discrimination, chose to continue to do what comes naturally for them – to teach – but to do it in a way that does not violate the terms of the temporary suspension. 

Although the restrictions from the university are clear, legal standards set in cases such as  Pickering v. Board of Education (1968) give broad allowance to First Amendment speech by teachers, particularly in off-campus settings (such as Ahgasaleh’s class offered in public), when a court is looking at a teacher’s right to free speech versus their employer’s right to limit that speech. In that supreme court case, Justice Thurgood Marshall agreed that Pickering’s First Amendment rights had been violated, and wrote in the decision, “the interest of the school administration in limiting teachers’ opportunities to contribute to public debate is not significantly greater than its interest in limiting a similar contribution by any member of the general public.” 

Interview w/Rouhollah at last Monday’s class.

Those who popped in for the open class enjoyed the lessons while soaking up the afternoon sunshine between a conveniently located food truck and a Justice for Josiah Lawson mural at the D Street Community Center only a crosswalk away from the University. Some of those who showed up to enjoy the class learned of it after they had been handed a flier notifying community members of the unorthodox teaching session, and met Rouhallah Aghasaleh for the first time.

Naomi Grogan-Hurlich, a lecturer at Cal Poly who was asked to cover the suspended Professor’s teaching schedule on campus, was also present for Aghasaleh’s first class taught “in exile.” Grogan-Hurlich told us, “Although it’s been under very unfortunate circumstances, it has been a gift to meet Rouhollah and to be a participant in their public class. They are clearly passionate about teaching and learning and clearly care about the safety and education of their students and colleagues.” 

Naomi Grogan-Hurlich seen here with Rouhollah Aghasaleh, was asked to cover the suspended Professor’s teaching schedule on campus, and showed up to meet  Aghasaleh at the first class taught “in exile.”  [Photo by Ryan Hutson]

Naomi Grogan-Hurlich seen here with Rouhollah Aghasaleh, was asked to cover the suspended Professor’s teaching schedule on campus, and showed up to meet  Aghasaleh at the first class taught “in exile.”  [Photo by Ryan Hutson]

As to having to fill in for the suspended professor on short notice, Grogan-Hurlich added, “They have been very open in supporting me to cover the classes that they should have been teaching this semester and grateful for my transparency and communication.” 

Some faculty members arrived to the publicly presented class on Monday wearing matching neon green t-shirts which read, “WHERE’S ROUHOLLAH?” superimposed on a giant question mark.  One attendee who also happened to be a teacher, was also arrested in connection with the Pro-Palestine protests that unfolded in late April on campus. 

Showing up to support Professor Aghesaleh, Alice Finen, proudly wore the bright green shirt in support of Aghasaleh’s reinstatement. Finen is also a local teacher who has also been active in supporting the local protests for Palestinian causes. 

Teachers in support of Rouhollah, Michihiro Clark Sugata, PhD of Cal Poly’s Sociology Department, and Alice Finen, a teacher at a local elementary school each showed support Monday, August 26 for Rouhollah Aghasaleh PhD while on temporary suspension from employment with Cal Poly.  [Photo by Ryan Hutson]

Teachers in support of Rouhollah, Michihiro Clark Sugata, PhD of Cal Poly’s Sociology Department, and Alice Finen, a teacher at a local elementary school each showed support Monday, August 26 for Rouhollah Aghasaleh PhD while on temporary suspension from employment with Cal Poly.  [Photo by Ryan Hutson]

Finen was arrested on April 22, while rallying on the quad in support of students barricaded inside Siemens Hall during a police response widely circulated on social media. The incident went viral due to the students’ reaction to the police’s forceful presence at the building’s entrance. Finen, for her part, may still face charges from her arrest. The District Attorney has not cleared her of wrongdoing, but also has yet to formally press charges, according to Finen, who is hopeful that the accusations against her will be rejected by the DA as well, like Aghasaleh’s.

The teacher and community member who is passionate about free speech and student expression also noted that she felt the charges stemming from the police sweep on campus April 30 were wholly unjustified, and as she reflected on the DA’s rejection of those cases, said, “I guess it just goes to show that they were totally within their rights and that they should not have been arrested.” 

In contrast to Aghasaleh’s case, as a teacher, Finen reports no issues of discipline at her place of employment (another local school, not the University) after having been arrested in April, nor as a result of her ongoing support for student protesters. In the emotional video statement submitted to us, Finen gives an “O Captain my Captain” echo from the likes of The Dead Poets Society, as she declares her support for the charismatic and influential teacher while also calling out what she sees as hypocrisy on the part of the institution.  

Alice Finen

Reflecting on the University’s suspension pending the results of their investigation, Finen told us, “I think it’s really hypocritical to have Rouhollah be on a second extension to a suspension, especially when their charges were dropped,” and added,  “I think that the university really needs to be honest with itself if they’re going to… do so much reaching out and encouraging students to come up here on that, that idea that they’re inclusive and…celebrate diversity.” 

Referencing Cal Poly Humboldt’s promotional advertisements pitching the rural college experience with emphasis on inclusivity to the broader public as the school aims for increased enrollment, Finen highlighted what she sees as a discrepancy in the narrative. She said, “And then it’s, you know, these students, these quote, unquote diverse students and professors are treated like this. I think it’s, it’s horrendous,” she said, “it’s really distressing to know that those people and those students and those professors are treated that way. So it’s just so hypocritical and distressing.”

Professor Aghasaleh, at their first open class, in the shadow of the David Josiah Lawson mural recently completed across the street from Cal Poly’s main entryway. [Photo by Ryan Hutson]

Professor Aghasaleh, at their first open class, in the shadow of the David Josiah Lawson mural recently completed across the street from Cal Poly’s main entryway. [Photo by Ryan Hutson]

Public classes offered by Dr. Aghasaleh are expected to be ongoing Mondays and Thursdays, until the Professor’s status of employment is settled. 

After the first publicly offered class had concluded the afternoon of Monday, August 26, Rouhollah Aghasaleh explained that in the larger context of being an educator, speaking up has value, and cited a quote seen at their Cal Poly campus office by Audre Lorde, which reads, “My silences had not protected me. Your silence will not protect you.

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208 Please improve the conversation by disagreeing thoughtfully and backing your claims with facts
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Country Joe
Member
1 year ago

Terminate this miscreant.

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
1 year ago
Reply to  Country Joe

Agree ?%!

Too bad the DA failed to file charges against this moron masquerading as a professor (and others who were obviously guilty) but that shouldn’t deter the university from terminating him for violating school policy.

Failure of the DA to file charges does not mean the protestors were innocent and no amount of biased reporting can convert the violent building occupation into a peaceful protest.

It’s also time to terminate buying into the use of fake pronouns – the “they” and “them” at the center of this story is quoted several times saying “I” – but shouldn’t “they” have said “we”?

Spoiler Alert: The caption under the photo by Mark McKenna of “them” being arrested refers to “them” as “him” – but I expect that’ll be changed now that I’ve pointed it out.

I was also surprised at the inarticulateness of the anonymous professors who were quoted, you know?

No wonder college grads struggle to fill out job application forms.

Kym Kemp
Admin
1 year ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

It is weird that “obviously guilty” folks aren’t charged. Possibly their guilt wasn’t as obvious to everyone?

Sometimes when humans take a strong position on something, then they take any evidence found later that doesn’t fit their narrative as an attack on them.

Just a reminder, Dr. Rouhollah Aghasaleh wasn’t part of the “violent building occupation.”

They and them aren’t fake pronouns. You may not like their use but “they” has been used since the 1300’s as a gender neutral pronoun.

My apologies for using the pronoun that Dr. Aghasaleh doesn’t prefer. I copied from an earlier caption where I was not aware of their preference. I have indeed fixed it now as I do all errors.

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
1 year ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

There is no question whatsoever that those arrested were obviously guilty of trespassing and resisting arrest.

Failure of the DA to file charges doesn’t change the facts.

Nor does the misuse of pronouns.

Kym Kemp
Admin
1 year ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

Possibly the DA thought peacefully sitting down in the center of a public university’s public square and waiting for officers to arrest them because they were upset about people dying was not the crime that she wanted to spend a lot of money prosecuting? It’s certainly not in my top priority to spend my tax dollars.

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
1 year ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

That’s one possible and logical explanation but thus far the DA has chosen to hide behind the catch phrase “in the interests of justice” without explaining how she arrived at that determination.

Somewhat in line with your explanation, she may not have wanted to provide the attention seekers with a taxpayer funded soapbox – a trial on relatively minor charges – which could easily have devolved into a circus.

It’s also possible she sees an advantage in currying favor with activists.

Just Saying
Guest
Just Saying
1 year ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

Again, lefties misuse of the law doesn’t negate facts. They had to completely alter graduations because of these asshats. The DA’s personal political stances shouldn’t alter prosecution….. Ad people should have learned with the NY scumbag judge. But hey, lefties going to lefty and turn blind eyes to facts because “they feel” as if…. get real….

Thatguyinarcata
Guest
Thatguyinarcata
1 year ago
Reply to  Just Saying

They chose to completely alter graduation. Nothing happening at the quad or Siemens hall would have prevented normal graduation ceremonies. The protestors were cleared several weeks before graduation

Kym Kemp
Admin
1 year ago

I agree with that assuming what we saw on the surface was the entire reality faced by the admin and law enforcement. We heard rumors that there were concerns about some information that was gathered that may have led to caution on their part.

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
1 year ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

Yep…it’s not like the people who broke into and ransacked multiple buildings, violently resisted arrest, vandalized and destroyed property, would have disrupted “normal graduation ceremonies” or anything like that.

Kym Kemp
Admin
1 year ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

Like with any protest there are people who go too far. I actually don’t think the students should have taken over a building and I know that those students who did vandalism made poor decisions that harmed the community. That said, similar protests have taken place across the nation on campuses and classes in non occupied buildings and grad ceremonies continued uninterrupted.

I try to try to understand what both sides could have done better. I don’t think choosing one side and villainizing them is helpful.

pcwindham
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

It’s good to hear all the community voices on RHBB. Thanks,Kim!

pcwindham
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

It’s hard to find common ground with someone you see as an enemy. Let us come and reason together.

Kym Kemp
Admin
1 year ago
Reply to  pcwindham

I liked “Let us come and reason together.” I added it to the comment search section. See circled in red on image below.

Capture
Kym Kemp
Admin
1 year ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

Maybe I should have put the source Isaiah 1:18 

pcwindham
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

It was LBJ’s favorite verse

CsMisadventures
Guest
CsMisadventures
1 year ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

Ascribing “they” really has had it’s meaning twisted or reapplied. I’ve used it, especially in writing where at times you really have no idea of someones gender as you can’t see them so “they” is a safe, generic reference to a person. Yet people will still get pretty pissed because we can’t figure out what “they” want to be today. I’ll go by whatever one wants but don’t act all high and mighty if I guess wrong because it’s not obvious or what I’m looking at is not what you identified as today. It’s also a required use when referencing plurality. I do get annoyed when people want to use “they” when the whole world can clearly see that “they” are in fact, one human being. You are not two people. You are physically one person. I don’t use any and also get annoyed when it’s pushed on me to decide. How about this? Save the letters and just ask me my name. I caught enough heat growing up just getting people to correct the spelling and placement of, let alone remember just my first name. I don’t need the extra labels. Just ask me my name. You do whatever, but you’re still ONE person, not five.
This soon-to-be-former professor comes as a charlatan to me. He’s not educating, IMO, rather has credentials to go about his personal crusade. Non violent, which is always helpful, but not helpful to the university or diversity of it.

Kym Kemp
Admin
1 year ago

I don’t know why folks find they/them so difficult to deal with…for years women and gender neutrals et all have been described collectively as men some examples that are still in common use: mankind, “all men are created equal,” as well as he and his being commonly used to describe unknown genders–The student shall take the test and he shall use a pen, for example.

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
1 year ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

Could it possibly be because “mankind” was universally understood to include everyone?

Or that “they” and “them” as previously used were understood in context to sometimes indicate a single person?

Whereas the modified use of “they” and “them” create confusion not only to the number of people referred to but also their gender?

Or that more people are catching on that “gender affirming care” is a euphemism for the surgical scrambling of genitals and removal of healthy breast’s?

And that more and more people are realizing the manipulation of language (non-binary, gender fluid, cisgender, etc.) is a tactic used to advance an extreme activist agenda that seeks to normalize children aged 5 or younger switching genders?

Of course this can all be resolved if we simply adopt Huxley’s “Brave New World” model of propagation.

Korina42
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

Or, you know, try to be patient as we figure this all out; it’s still pretty new.
If it’s not your body, not your life, what business is it of yours?
I do hope we come up with a better gender neutral pronoun, though.

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
1 year ago
Reply to  Korina42

What business is it if mine?

What business is it if anyone to protect innocent vulnerable people from harm?

Not so long ago it came to light that immigrants from a particular culture were surgically removing the clitoris from girls.

I know we should have been more patient and understanding but most people thought it was abhorrent and it was quickly outlawed.

The mind boggling part is that physicians (sworn to “do no harm”) can be found who are willing to inflict such travesties on children who are incapable of fully understanding the consequences.

pcwindham
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Korina42

In what language? Maybe I can help if you want it in Kiswahili.

This is a trick question.

Last edited 1 year ago
pcwindham
Guest
pcwindham
1 year ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

Brave New World, 1984 and Animal Farm should be required reading for high school juniors.

Last edited 1 year ago
CsMisadventures
Guest
CsMisadventures
1 year ago
Reply to  pcwindham

HS juniors or junior high schoolers? I read 1984 in 1983, in 8th grade.

Robin Donald
Guest
Robin Donald
1 year ago

According to how you identify yourself in these comments, your name is “Guest.” How non-binary is that!?

Unimpressed
Guest
Unimpressed
1 year ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

That’s 100 percent what I have found.

Just Saying
Guest
Just Saying
1 year ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

They are fake. That’s why they demand people use them to support their mental illness…… this is what happens when you let the psyche ward run the yard……

Kym Kemp
Admin
1 year ago
Reply to  Just Saying

I don’t have to understand to offer courtesy to someone else. I don’t get someone praying to god before we eat, but I’m going to be silent while they do. (See what I did there?)

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
1 year ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

Kym, with all due respect,

HE appreciates, when “they” do that.

(See what I did there…???)

BTW…

“A “god” “, is not capitalized, but “God”, AFAIK, is ALWAYS supposed to be properly capitalized…

It’s just proper grammar, AND it’s respectful, among believers, to do so.

I don’t understand some folks insistence to refuse to capitalize “God”…

(Is that “a thing”…)

It’s a name, even if it’s considered by some folks to be nothing more than a mere mythological name.

Names, mythological or not, are properly capitalized.

That’s not common courtesy, it’s proper grammar.

Do those same folks also refuse to capitalize “Superman”, for example, just because those same folks don’t believe in Superman…???

Or, do the folks that insist on spelling God, “god, also insist on spelling, Superman, “superman”…???

(Same “thing”…???)

I’ve noticed it when nonbelievers refuse to capitalize “God” based, AFAIK on nothing more than some sort of opposing principle…

(I’ve never noticed those same folks referring to themselves as,”i”, instead of “I” as if they didn’t know what was supposed to be capitalized, and what wasn’t supposed to be capitalized…)

You state…

“I don’t know why folks find they/them so difficult to deal with…”

__________

Well, likewise, “I don’t know why folks find”, capitalizing “God”, “so difficult to deal with…”

Even when I type in g-o-d in small case letters, spell check properly corrects it to G-o-d…

??,

You don’t suppose that Spellcheck is capitalizing, “God” just because Spellcheck is a “believer”, do you…???

?‍♂️?

Why the inclination to be inclusive about what some folks believe in, but simultaneously be exclusive about what others believe in…???

Why are those that hesitate or refuse to use “they/them” hard for you to understand, when you seem to understand it just fine when “God” is not properly capitalized by those that would hesitate or refuse to understand…???

It seems like a bit of a double standard…

I know that you are a teacher and a journalist that understands the importance of using correct grammar…

I am curious now, if, in the future, the opinion of the importance of the proper use of, “they/them”, as preferred pronouns, will be considered of superior importance to the opinion of the at least equal importance, IMNSHO, of the proper capitalization and spelling of the name “God”…

Now might be a very good time for me to properly acknowledge, my error, that I somehow, ( obviously), inexplicably, missed the fact that you fully covered the fact that the use of “they/them” in reference to those that would prefer them as pronouns, is/was, in fact, a modern development…

Please forgive me for that, I regret the oversight, and delayed reading comprehension…

I should have acknowledged my hasty oversight and incorrect assumption sooner, and I never should have assumed that you didn’t already understand that, in the first place…

?‍♂️

Last edited 1 year ago
The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
1 year ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

AI Overview

+6
“The capitalization of the word “God” depends on the context in which it is used:

Capitalized
“God” is capitalized when referring to the deity of monotheistic religions. For example, “the Lord”, “the Father”, and “the Creator” are capitalized when used as titles for a deity.

Lowercase
“God” is written in lowercase when referring to gods and goddesses of polytheistic religions, or when it is used nonliterally. For example, “Most religions worship one or more gods” uses “god” as a common noun.

Reverential capitalization
Pronouns that are usually lowercase can be capitalized to indicate that the author reveres the antecedent of the pronoun as a deity. However, some style guides, such as The Chicago Manual of Style, Words Into Type, and The Associated Press Style Manual, recommend using lowercase pronouns when referring to God. ”

-AI-
_____________________________________

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
1 year ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

The folks that pray to God before eating are saying Grace, giving thanks to God, for His Gifts that they are about to receive, (their sustenance)…

.

They are not praying to “god”, Kym…

Praying to “a god”, yes, to “god”, no.

Except to Christians , to whom there is only one true god, Whom is spelled “God”.

Some might consider saying Grace before a meal, praying to “a god”…,but when one prays “to” “God”, (no preceding “a”), before eating, it’s the form of the word “god”, that is used as a proper name, (“God”), so it’s also properly capitalized.

One doesn’t have to believe in God, or, (forgive me Lord), something imaginary like Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny, King Arthur, Robin Hood, The Flash, Underdog, Wiley Coyote, or even Bugs Bunny, for that matter, to realize that proper names, real or imaginary, are capitalized, and that “God” when used in certain contexts, is a proper name that is supposed to be properly capitalized…

If one easily understands and accepts that some folks opine that the concept of God is just dogma, why can’t one just as easily understand and accept that to some folks, the concept of, “they/them”, is nothing more than pure, imaginary, dogma…???

Why would one feel that one concept is unworthy, and should rightly be dismissed and ignored, but not the other, based on nothing more than a particular set of beliefs, (or disbeliefs), as opposed to a completely different set of equally considerable beliefs, (or disbeliefs)…???

That would be a form of hypocrisy, would it not…???

A double standard…???

Some people, like me, might even be totally on board, with the concept of God the proper capitalization of “God”, AND
also, the modern use of they/them, in reference to those that would prefer those pronouns…

What I don’t understand, is why some folks would be adamant about proper respect for the “latter”, while being just as adamant about refusing to properly respect “The Former.”

That just doesn’t make any sense to me.

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
1 year ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

https://www.learnreligions.com/god-or-god-to-capitalize-or-not-to-capitalize-249823

“One issue which seems to cause some consternation between atheists and theists involves disagreement over how to spell the word “god”—should it be capitalized or not? Which is correct, god or God? Many atheists frequently spell it with a lowercase ‘g’ while theists, particularly those who come from a monotheistic religious tradition like Judaism, Christianity, Islam, or Sikhism, always capitalize the ‘G’. Who is right?

For theists, the issue can be a sore point because they are certain that it is grammatically incorrect to spell the word as ‘god,’ thus leading them to wonder if atheists are simply ignorant about good grammar—or, more likely, are deliberately trying to insult them and their beliefs. After all, what could possibly motivate a person to misspell such a simple word which is used so frequently? It’s not like they break grammar rules as a matter of course, so some other psychological purpose must be the cause. Indeed, it would be rather juvenile to misspell simply in order to insult theists.

If such an atheist had so little respect for another person, though, why even waste the time writing to them in the first place, much less deliberately trying to hurt them at the same time? While that may actually be the case with some atheists who write the word ‘god’ with a lowercase ‘g,’ it isn’t the normal reason why atheists spell the word in this manner.

When Not to Capitalize God
To understand why we need only observe the fact Christians don’t capitalize the ‘g’ and write about the gods and goddesses of the ancient Greeks and Romans. Is that an attempt to insult and denigrate those polytheistic beliefs? Of course not—it’s grammatically correct to use a lowercase ‘g’ and write ‘gods and goddesses’.

The reason is that in such cases we are talking about members of a general class or category —specifically, members of a group which gets the label ‘gods’ because people have, at one time or another, worshipped its members as gods. Anytime we are referring to the fact that some being or alleged being is a member of this class, it is grammatically appropriate to use a lowercase ‘g’ but inappropriate to use an uppercase ‘G’—just as it would be inappropriate to write about Apples or Cats.

The same holds true if we are writing very generally about Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or Sikh beliefs. It is appropriate to say that Christians believe in a god, that Jews believe in a single god, that Muslims pray every Friday to their god, and that Sikhs worship their god. There is absolutely no reason, grammatical or otherwise, to capitalize ‘god’ in any of those sentences.

When to Capitalize God
On the other hand, if we are referring to the specific god-concept that a group worships, then it may be appropriate to use capitalization. We can say that Christians are supposed to follow what their god wants them to do, or we can say that Christians are supposed to follow what God wants them to do. Either works, but we capitalize God in the latter sentence because we are essentially using it as a proper name—just as if we were talking about Apollo, Mercury, or Odin.

Confusion is caused by the fact that Christians don’t typically ascribe a personal name to their god—some use Yahweh or Jehovah, but that is pretty rare. The name they use happens to be the same as the general term for the class that being belongs to. It’s not unlike a person who has named their cat, Cat. In such a situation, there could be some confusion at times as to when the word should be capitalized and when it shouldn’t. The rules themselves may be clear, but their application might not be.

Christians are accustomed to using God because they always reference it in a personal manner—they say that “God has spoken to me,” not that “my god has spoken to me.” Thus, they and other monotheists might be taken aback at finding people who don’t privilege their particular god concept and so reference it in a general manner, just as they do with everyone else’s god. It’s important to remember in such cases that it is not an insult simply to not be privileged.”

Screenshot_20240902-223729
Last edited 1 year ago
The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
1 year ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

??,

I don’t have to understand to offer courtesy to someone else. I don’t get someone, [demanding that I refer to they/them, as, they/them], but I’m going to be silent while they do. (See what I did there?)

?

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
1 year ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

??,

https://www.salon.com/2015/01/01/i_get_it_%E2%80%93_you%E2%80%99re_an_atheist_you_should_still_capitalize_%E2%80%9Cgod%E2%80%9D/

‘I get it – you’re an atheist. You should still capitalize “God” ‘

“Using a lowercase “God” is like Fox News hacks saying “Democrat Party.” It shows dumb disrespect to others, grammar”

“In a world wracked by war, climate change and economic inequality, this may seem a trivial point. In fact, it almost certainly is. And in a “new atheism” debate characterized by mutual bitterness and rigidity, I don’t want to pour any more kerosene on seemingly eternal fires. But might I ask for one last, tiny little favor, perhaps in the spirit of the New Year?

Please, please, stop writing “god” in lowercase form.

I get it. You don’t believe in a supreme being. That’s fine with me. What anybody believes or doesn’t believe is their call. You may believe that the world would be a better place without organized religion. Having seen organized religion in action, I’m inclined to say you may be right. You may believe that even private, reflective, personal religion is harmful, although I don’t see that myself.

But none of that’s relevant to the topic at hand. We’re not talking about God as a theological concept or God as a historical force. We’re talking about “god,” a punctuational neologism that I hope never catches on.

I’m hopeful, but not optimistic, since more and more writers seem to be using it. A couple of recent examples: Edwin Lyngar, who seems to be a good guy, employs it in an otherwise excellent piece about the aggressive Christianization of our armed forces. Lyngar writes that “a technical sergeant stationed at Creech Air Force Base in Nevada is being denied reenlistment unless he agrees to swear ‘so help me god.’”

Advertisement:

The fact that this is happening in today’s armed forces is genuinely appalling, and we thank Lyngar for bringing it to our attention. But “God” should be capitalized here, and in the sentence that follows: “Modern attempts to force ‘god’ into inappropriate parts of the public sphere is a Cold War relic.”

Then there’s the piece by an atheist named Loren Miller titled “Is god good?” That question has been debated for centuries – but with a capital “G.”

I understand why some atheists might want to write “god” instead of “God.” If you believe that the word describes a human phenomenon rather than a genuine and existent deity, it might seem appropriate to use the lowercase form. But it’s not. If you are referring to the singular and all-powerful deity of monotheistic tradition, you are using a proper name. That means the capital “G” is a must.

To be sure, there will continue to be many opportunities to use the word in lowercase form. The phrase “belief in gods” is punctuated correctly. So is “belief in a monotheistic god.” But the phrase “belief in god” is not correct, no matter what you do or don’t believe.

You’ve said it a thousand times, and I get it: You don’t believe in capital-G God any more than I believe in Tinkerbell. That doesn’t change anything. (See what I did there? I don’t believe in an entity named “Tinkerbell.” But since it is the proper name of a, yes, fictional character, I capitalized it.)

The “god” construct, however it’s intended, looks like an ungrammatical affectation. It makes the writer seem petty and silly, like those Republicans on Fox News who talk about the “Democrat” Party. It also seems intended to show disrespect to the beliefs of others (who shouldn’t care, but some of whom undoubtedly do).

The true nature of creation may be in dispute, but the proper usage in this case is not. Webster’s Dictionary tells us that a “god” is “a spirit or being that has great knowledge, strength, power, etc.” while “God” is “the perfect and all-powerful spirit or being … worshipped by Christians, Jews, and Muslims …”

One is a noun. The other is a name. If it weren’t a name, it would be necessary to use a different sentence construction, as in: “They forced the sergeant to swear to the god,” or, “Is the god good?”

The atheist/religionist debate concerns nothing less than the fundamental nature of the cosmos. It involves issues like the fundamental ground of being, life after death, the soul, and the origin of all existence. If anybody wants to argue those things, be my guest. But now we’re talking about grammar. When you don’t capitalize a proper name like God’s, you’re violating a fundamental principle of grammar.

You heard me right: grammar! You don’t want to violate the laws of grammar, do you? I mean, seriously: Is nothing sacred?”

_____________________

?‍♂️?

Screenshot_20240902-225543
Last edited 1 year ago
Kym Kemp
Admin
1 year ago
Reply to  The Real Guest

I wasn’t referencing the Christian god whose name is God. I was referencing whatever god someone is praying to, whatever their name is. Thus no capital.

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
1 year ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

…pray to “their” god…”, then…???

Or, “…pray to “a” god…”, then…???

Or , “…pray to “gods”…, then…???

In, “…folks that Pray to God…” , god would be capitalized…

In, “… folks that pray to “a god”, “…their god…”, “…whatever god…”,

“…folks that pray to “gods”…”, would spell out your meaning best, AFAIK…

“God” used by itself, without a preceding word to indicate it’s nonspecific, is singular, and specific, not plural…

It’s a name.

If your intended use of “god” was to be nonspecific, and intended to be inclusive of all possible gods relevant to any folks that pray to gods before meals, then as you can see, your use of “god” would properly be pluralized to “gods.”

Otherwise, it’s spelled, “God”…

From a grammatical perspective, not from a religious point of view.

Respectfully,

TRG…

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
1 year ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

Big difference between “whatever god” and “God”.

OrleansNative
Guest
OrleansNative
1 year ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

Toward the end of the Cal Poly Humboldt demonstrations there was a letter to McGuire and Woods under the signature of local Jewish leaders that was less than complementary about university administration.
Do you know the outcome of this contact and was any follow up posted at RHBB (that I may have missed).
Thank you for your service to the community.

Kym Kemp
Admin
1 year ago
Reply to  OrleansNative

I’m sorry I don’t.

Country Joe
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

Outrageous decision by the DA that I’ll remember in elections.

pcwindham
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Country Joe

Me too. Stacey has lost my vote

Elections Have Consequences
Guest
Elections Have Consequences
1 year ago
Reply to  Country Joe

He’s a straight grifter. Wow. I met him before his 15 minutes of infamy and he and his young children were not at all like this persona he’s now taken. He knows what time it is in America and will use it to his advantage. Lookout for a future lawsuit from him, which he’ll probably win, and then leave to the next location to exploit.

CsMisadventures
Guest
CsMisadventures
1 year ago

This county has a long line of people like that, and we get to clean up their messes. They…come here to stir the pot for a couple of years, get paid and move along when the heat of the public frying pans gets turned up.

Mr. Clark
Member
1 year ago

So the story keeps saying they and them. But It is only one teacher under suspension. Do we not have normal grammar anymore?

Kym Kemp
Admin
1 year ago
Reply to  Mr. Clark

“They” and “them” have been used as singular pronouns in English for centuries, particularly when a person’s gender is unknown or currently it is also used when referring to someone who uses those pronouns. This usage is recognized as normal grammar by major style guides, including the AP and Chicago Manual of Style. It’s a part of the evolving nature of language, reflecting our growing understanding and respect for individual identity.

BreakWind
Member
BreakWind
1 year ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

in the real world it’s a joke.

huh
Guest
huh
1 year ago
Reply to  BreakWind

Unreal

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
1 year ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

True…

However, “they” and “them” have, MORE traditionally, been more commonly used as plural pronouns, [AND], they have, [“ALSO”], been used, (but MUCH less commonly), traditionally, as singular pronouns, when speaking in general terms…

It would be remiss to not also mention their long-standing, traditional, historic, primary usage as plural pronouns, would it not…???

They have not, ONLY, been, “used as SINGULAR pronouns in English for centuries”… (irregardless of gender)…

And, as I recall, at least from the way I was taught, that “He” was the most proper pronoun to use as a singular pronoun, when gender was unknown…

As in ” ‘He’ who laughs last, laughs best”…

(Which would apply to “all”, and not to, specifically, only males…)

It is, in fact, a relatively new usage, in the English language, to use “They”, “Them”, as a singular pronouns, when gender is a “known unknown”, in cases where the reference is being made to an individual, specifically due to their personally stated pronoun preferences of “they”, “them”…

That type of modern usage has definitely not been around for centuries..

?‍♂️

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
1 year ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

The misuse of pronouns is part of an activist strategy that (among other things) serves to confuse children and indoctrinate them into believing they can change gender as easily as they change their socks and that it’s normal to do so.

Isn’t it amazing that it’s illegal in California to tattoo anyone under age18 (with or without parental consent) but gender mutilation surgery for minors is legal?

Or that parental consent is required for pierced ears (or other parts) but it’s illegal for school staff to inform parents of their minor children’s gender confusion?

And how can anyone who professes to support women’s rights fail to oppose the massively discriminatory practice of allowing biological boys and men to compete in girl’s and women’s sports?

Last edited 1 year ago
Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
1 year ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

* “gender mutilation surgery” in the second paragraph should read “genital mutilation surgery” – (although they could be synonymous).

Last edited 1 year ago
Tim
Guest
Tim
1 year ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

So we ought to outlaw circumcising infants? Is that what you’re arguing?

Last edited 1 year ago
Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
1 year ago
Reply to  Tim

Nice deflection – a common refuge of those who seek to defend the indefensible.

Tim
Guest
Tim
1 year ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

Nope, serious question. Unless you are arguing that some genital surgery is okay because it fits some religious and cultural norms but not if it goes against those norms.
Body modification has occurred throughout human history, including genital modification for a variety of personal and cultural reasons. This current animosity towards gender re-assignment surgery is simply a right-wing dog whistle to arouse fear and anger — those procedures occur rarely and only after lengthy medical treatment.
But it does make for a nice dog-whistle to religious fundies.

Last edited 1 year ago
Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
1 year ago
Reply to  Tim

No, it’s not a serious question.

You’re unable to distinguish between what amounts to a minor surgical procedure with perceived health benefits vs. surgically scrambling a child’s genitals or removing a young woman’s healthy breasts?

It’s not unreasonable to require irreversible life altering decisions be deferred until adulthood.

Last edited 1 year ago
Tim
Guest
Tim
1 year ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

Having your foreskin removed without your consent is an irreversible life-altering decision that you don’t seem to have a problem with because it fits your cultural norms.

But someone else making their own medical decisions about a procedure that they (and their parents/guardian/medical providers) think will have life-altering, even life-saving benefits should be illegal.

It doesn’t affect you in the least, let them make their own decisions.

Tangled Massocells
Guest
Tangled Massocells
1 year ago
Reply to  Tim

It’s affecting children. They are not developmentally capable to deal with the BS of… let them make their own decisions! stop ?!

Korina42
Member
1 year ago

Isn’t it up to the parents? I thought you were all for parents’ rights?

Tangled Massocells
Guest
Tangled Massocells
1 year ago
Reply to  Korina42

Tim’s the one having the issue. Parents have rights but I’m not convinced how that fits with removing body parts and pumping full of hormones to pretend little boys are girls and little girls are boys. In my world, that’s called child abuse! Children, especially the young ones, are developmentally incapable of giving consent for what some parents dream up. This is one of those instances.

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
1 year ago
Reply to  Korina42

It all about “pro choice”, “my body, my choice”, to some people, until they are making choices for someone elses body…

Once that baby is born, it should be their body, their choice, no one else’s, to the maximum extent humanely possibly…

Kym Kemp
Admin
1 year ago
Reply to  Tim

Well said, Tim.

Tangled Massocells
Guest
Tangled Massocells
1 year ago
Reply to  Tim

Prove it. Have you seen stats on your “life-saving” benefits? Prove it! Everything I’ve seen is it’s detrimental in the long run.

Tangled Massocells
Guest
Tangled Massocells
1 year ago
Reply to  Tim

Show me the scientific research. Show me the scientific studies that prove life -saving benefits.

D'Tucker Jebs
Member
1 year ago

A narrative review was undertaken evaluating suicide-related outcomes following gender-affirming surgery, hormones, and/or puberty blockers. Of the 23 studies that met the inclusion criteria, the majority indicated a reduction in suicidality following gender-affirming treatment” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10027312/

Tangled Massocells
Guest
Tangled Massocells
1 year ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

You bet and the gender-affirming treatment is all over the map. That study Tim put up had 104 – from 13-20 yoa! That’s a small sample- he and you should have read the limitations before broad brushing especially in the pediatric world. Did you catch the part about “gender-affirming” treatment!

Tangled Massocells
Guest
Tangled Massocells
1 year ago

Put up the longitudinal studies that prove this. Quantify what gender-affirming treatment is! Does it include removing body parts? Does it cover children under thirteen? 4 year olds, infants?

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
1 year ago
Reply to  Tim

You’re slightly missing the lack of any equivalency between removing a flap of skin from an infant vs. chopping off a child’s genitals or breasts.

Feel free to attribute your psychological issues to having been circumcised but don’t use it as justification for ruining children’s lives.

Good day!

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
1 year ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

You’re slightly missing the equivalency…

Give them an inch and they’ll take a mile…

And this doesn’t add up…

_______________________

“Feel free to attribute your psychological issues to having been circumcised but don’t use it as justification for ruining children’s lives.”

-Truth be Told-

________________________

Let me get this straight…

It sounds as of you are implying that being left uncircumcised, would somehow be equated to, … “ruining children’s lives”…???

Unless I am wrong…

That’s bizarre enough that it’s going to need an accompanying explanation…

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
1 year ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

“Estimates of how many babies die from circumcision vary, and are often disputed by medical professionals:

117 boys per year
Dan Bollinger, an opponent of circumcision, estimated that this number of boys die each year from circumcision. However, medical professionals widely dispute this estimate.

1.3% of male neonatal deaths
A study estimated that 117 neonatal circumcision-related deaths occur annually in the United States, which is about 1.3% of male neonatal deaths from all causes.

0.0012% fatality rate
A study in the Greater Toronto Area found that the fatality rate for neonatal circumcision was approximately 0.0012% over a 14-year review period.

One death per 49,166 circumcisions
A retrospective analysis of infants who underwent circumcision in the United States from 2001 to 2010 found that 200 early deaths occurred among 9,833,110 subjects.

16 British boys per year
In 1949, pediatrician Douglas Gairdner found that 16 British boys died each year from circumcision.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) says that they do not track deaths from infant circumcision because they are very rare.

Circumcision-related deaths are often not officially recorded as due to circumcision, but to the immediate cause, such as bleeding, infection, stroke, or reactions to anesthesia. ”

-Google it-

Last edited 1 year ago
Country Joe
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Tim

That’s absurd.

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
1 year ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

It definitely is a serious question.

It’s not unreasonable to require anatomical altering decisions like circumcision , to be deferred until adulthood, AND DEFERRED MOST IMPORTANTLY AND MOST APPROPRIATELY, TO THE ACTUAL RECIPIENT OF THE INTENDED PROCEDURE…

If it’s not yours, it belongs to someone else…

So then, would be the decision to remove it.

Tangled Massocells
Guest
Tangled Massocells
1 year ago
Reply to  Tim

Seek help! Chopping off a penis, removing breast tissue to pretend, pumping someone full of hormones and drugs to mask the reality of scientific fact = xx, xy is twisted and more like Dr. Frankenstein. Sorry the truth always wins in the long run. Pretend away but don’t force me to accept the lies. Do you have any idea what you are arguing? Is it circumcision is equivalent to the chopping off of sex related body parts or are they at odds? Seek help!

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
1 year ago
Reply to  Tim

Yes, and No, the argument would be, that it should be a choice for the legal age adult to make, that the infant eventually grows up to be, and therefore, becomes, and NOT EVER a choice to be made by anyone else, AT ALL…

So, yes, in effect, that would outlaw circumcision of infants, as they could not even possibly ever give informed, legal consent, until they achieve the age that they become legal, consenting, adults…

CsMisadventures
Guest
CsMisadventures
1 year ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

CA PC653 prohibits tattoos or under 18, regardless of any consent.https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/defense/penal-code/653/
That is a fairly recent change as some years ago you could (with consent to). You can get ears pierced or any body part. The exceptions are “healing arts” like acupuncture. Things like henna tattoos and face paint are OK as they’re not subdermal like tatts and not permanent. You also cannot call yourself an “acupuncturist” and do tatts on the side and claim you’re still in the legal zone. You’re not. If busted the fines and various other charges will get tacked on like child endangerment, false arrest (a popular one) and contributing to the delinquency of a minor AND maybe a civil suit when the pissed off parents come at you, and hopefully for you, not an angry dad with a baseball bat.
Piercings are OK. Under 18 is fine with parental (or even a grand-person or legal guardian as I’ve found out) so long as it’s not on genitals or nipples. So you can’t get a tattoo, but you can get an arrow through the arm or your whole head if you’d like. Just no snakebites or Prince Ruperts.

Last edited 1 year ago
Kym Kemp
Admin
1 year ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

Someone can support women’s rights, they can support the right of trans people, and be concerned about unfair advantage and think the answer is conversation about what rules to make to be fairest to all and not automatically think trans people are evil/wrong/confused/sick. We are facing a new understanding of people’s needs. The answer isn’t shove everyone into a cookie cutter so we all come out alike. It seems to me the answer is to hold discussions, look at the science, and work together to make the best response to this newly understood situation.

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
1 year ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

Oh, please!

I don’t care one way or the other if ADULTS choose to transition but it’s astounding to me how professed feminists can condone girls and women being denied their rightful place on a podium or even on the team because a biological male was allowed to compete in girl’s or women’s sports.

That’s just wrong!!

Korina42
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

Can you point me to any scientific evidence that a trans woman is as strong as a man?

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
1 year ago
Reply to  Korina42

The issue isn’t if trans women are as strong as men – it’s whether trans women have gained an unfair advantage over women by virtue of having superior muscular development, lung capacity, etc. prior to transitioning – this is so obvious it shouldn’t even be a question – how else can mediocre male athletes be magically “transformed” into female champions.

Korina42
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

So no scientific evidence then?

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
1 year ago
Reply to  Korina42

None that would convince you. ?

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
1 year ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

https://time.com/5748649/word-of-year-they-merriam-webster/

…”The newer usage of singular they to describe a known individual who is rejecting the yoke of other pronouns has been inching closer to the mainstream for years. In 2015, the American Dialect Society chose it as their word of the year, having seen how people were starting to use it to “[transcend] the gender binary.” “…

_________________________

(…”for years”…, not, …”for centuries”…)

_______________________

“While it’s natural for the usage of pronouns to evolve, just as all language evolves, students are taught that pronouns are the bedrock of language, and it can be discomfiting when the rules about how to use them start to shift. “When there are changes, it can feel much more fundamental,” explains linguist Ben Zimmer, “and that obviously leads to a lot of backlash.” ”

________________________

The shift , long ago, from, “thou”/ “thee”, to “you”, is STILL causing confusion and people are still known to take singular offense by misunderstanding of the use of “You” as a plural pronoun…

?‍♂️

Screenshot_20240902-091607
Last edited 1 year ago
The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
1 year ago
Reply to  The Real Guest

Continued…

“In research about the acceptance of different pronoun usage, Conrod has found that when it comes to people disliking singular they, there seems to be a breaking point around age 35: People of all ages are fairly accepting of using singular they to refer to an unknown person, but those over age 35 don’t like it when it’s used to refer to Mary or John.”

Korina42
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  The Real Guest

I’m 61 and I have no problems using people’s preferred pronouns. I just see it as common courtesy. BTW, I’m she/her.

Creosote
Guest
Creosote
1 year ago
Reply to  The Real Guest

I recall a movement from 40-50 years ago to get “hir” (him/her) & some other neopronouns into common usage, but apparently they never caught on. I found it interesting to read The Sacramento Bee used hir from 1920-1945.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neopronoun

CsMisadventures
Guest
CsMisadventures
1 year ago
Reply to  The Real Guest

There’s always “Y’all”. Oft described as derogatory, but is quite inclusive.

Creosote
Guest
Creosote
1 year ago

But not as inclusive as “All y’all”!

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
1 year ago

I propose using, “Dey”, “Dem”, “Deir”, as pronouns for those opposed to being referred to as either he or she, and/or, her or his…

Problem solved.

Creosote
Guest
Creosote
1 year ago
Reply to  The Real Guest

But they already are called “Dems”!

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
1 year ago
Reply to  Creosote

I noticed that, but I wasn’t going to mention it…

Pardon the pun…

It was just a coincidence…

pcwindham
Member
1 year ago

Unless you’re from the South, y’all can be cultural appropriation.

pcwindham
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

Spin it however you want to fit the cultural revolutionary narrative, “they has” is jarring to the ears of a native English speaker.

D'Tucker Jebs
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  pcwindham

Native English speaker here.
There is absolutely nothing jarring about using our language in a respectful manner.

Yahbut
Guest
Yahbut
1 year ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

But not respecting the speaker’s choice? Just the listener? Communicating is hard enough without having to memorize individual personal decisions about how they wish to have a pronoun used. Talk about making everything a hill to die on.

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
1 year ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

The same people who demand respect for their made up labels (non-binary, gender fluid, etc.) have no problem mislabeling others with made up labels like “cisgender male” and “cisgender female” in place of male and female.

It’s also time to abandon the “sex assigned at birth” hoax which pretends that everyone is arbitrarily labeled male or female at birth when in reality the sex of newborns is clear and unambiguous except in a tiny percentage of cases.

D'Tucker Jebs
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

If a person does not wish to be referred to as cisgender, all they have to do is make that known and most people will do their best to respect that.
That’s kind of how manners work.

Yabut
Guest
Yabut
1 year ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

The everyone stop using those terms. Stop insisting on others using what is nonstandard identifiers in order to chastise the public, showing you know better. The reason for that is to wield the power of the individual against the group. That restraint is how civility works.

D'Tucker Jebs
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Yabut

Simply refer to a person as they wish.
It’s not that hard of a concept.

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
1 year ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

I’m not a genie…

Please refer to me as “Not A Genie”…

(Accept that, as I wish…)

It’s not my job to grant and/or fulfill other random people’s wishes…

It’s not that hard of a concept…

(And, no, no one else needs to get jabbed, either, just to fulfill anyone else’s random wishes…)

Please refer to me, “alternately”, as, “Not Anybody’s Pincushion”…

Last edited 1 year ago
D'Tucker Jebs
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  The Real Guest

Is it alright if I use the acronym NAG?

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
1 year ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

Clever…

But…

No.

Would that be “using our language in a respectful manner.”…???

Is that, “how manners work”…???

…”all they have to do is make that known and most people will do their best to respect that.”

________________________

Who are you, and what have you done with D’Tucker Jebs…???

Last edited 1 year ago
Tangled Massocells
Guest
Tangled Massocells
1 year ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

Very simple that’s for sure!!! By extension, If a person wants to identify as a dog, are you going to refer to them as “good boy” or “good girl”? How about “Bad Dog ?” “It’s not that hard of a concept.” – Jebs – woof.

D'Tucker Jebs
Member
1 year ago

Good dog.

Thesteve4761
Guest
Thesteve4761
1 year ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

You’re wrong.

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
1 year ago
Reply to  Thesteve4761

Oh?

How so?

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
1 year ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

Then I guess it’s time to get used to the contractions,”They’s”… ( “They is”…), and “Them’s”, ( “Them is”)…

(Spell check is objecting…)

If someone was to say, “Them is going to jail…”, “They is going to jail…”, “Them’s going to jail…”, and/or, “They’s going to jail…”…, especially when he, ( see what I did there…???), was talking about just one person going to jail, try and explain to me how that wouldn’t be saying something that sounds “ghetto”…

( Without saying something that sounds just as “ghetto”, like…)

“Because jail’s where them’s going…”

“Because jail’s where they’s going…”

_______________

There has got to be a better way…

Just Saying
Guest
Just Saying
1 year ago
Reply to  The Real Guest

Best comment.

pcwindham
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  The Real Guest

We need to get back to where we once belonged.

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
1 year ago
Reply to  pcwindham

Same awkwardness with, “they eats, drinks, lives”, as opposed to, “they eat, drink, live”, etc…

Kym Kemp
Admin
1 year ago
Reply to  pcwindham

Perhaps you would be more accurate if you said “the ears of this native speaker.”

Because not all folks struggle with it. Less and less do over time. Language changes and flexible people learn to adapt.

Though I’m pretty sure I will never adapt to “bitches” being anything other than a slur. We all have areas that are difficult for us. I sympathize but time marches on and fortunately for the world, old fogeys like myself will die off and new ways will become old ways and eventually die off themselves.

pcwindham
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

This manipulation of the language has no precedent in American literature from Faulkner to Kerouac. I’d love to see something from Hemingway or Emerson that uses the language of “they is” except as slang.

Kym Kemp
Admin
1 year ago
Reply to  pcwindham

Oh, no! The horror.

I find it hard to care very much about what pronoun someone wants me to use when children are dying in Gaza.

Now if we want to get me worked up let’s talk “the 101” or just 101. Or talk Buhne being pronounced Booner or Boon. If we got to get emotional about words at least let’s bring this close to home.

Korina42
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

I’m with you about “bitches”. I’m really impressed with how deeply people are losing their poop over pronouns. We need better ones; I hope they show up soon.

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
1 year ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

Consider this…

“Historically, “he” was often used as a generic, gender-neutral pronoun to refer to a person of unknown gender, but this practice is now considered outdated and potentially offensive as it excludes women; in modern writing, “they” is the preferred gender-neutral pronoun, even when referring to a single person.

Key points about using “he” as a gender-neutral pronoun:

Outdated practice:
While “he” was once widely accepted as a generic pronoun, it is now considered problematic as it reinforces gender bias by defaulting to the male gender.”

-AI-

___________________________

I may be outdated, but that does not make me, and my use of the English language, improper, or irrelevant…

A problem with the use of “They” or “Them” is the confusion about whether or not they refer to an individual, or to a group…

CsMisadventures
Guest
CsMisadventures
1 year ago
Reply to  The Real Guest

Well if you really want to start trouble today, you could quote, “You can’t spell They without He” and run. Let me know how it works out.

pcwindham
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  The Real Guest

“They” is plural or refers to a third person.

Last edited 1 year ago
The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
1 year ago
Reply to  pcwindham

“A Humboldt County Corrections officer escorts Rouhollah Aghasaleh, PhD and Assistant Professor at Cal Poly Humboldt to a law enforcement van that took them to jail.”

-RHBB photo caption-

______________________________________

The question is, how many of “them” does that mean, or did it read like it meant, “the van”, “took”, “to jail”…???

One…???

Two…???

Three…???

A comma between the second, “Humboldt”, and the following, “to”, might have lessened any possible confusion the change from “him” to “them” added…

Or, maybe, by simply describing the arrestee as, “Assistant Professor at Cal Poly Humboldt, Rouhollah Aghasaleh, PhD.”, it could have eliminated an unnecessary “and” between his name, and his position…

Sorta sounded like two different people as captioned…

With the corrections officer mentioned, that would sorta make three…

(I know that the picture only showed two, clearly, another is shown, although
a third is shown partially or mostly obscured…)

Last edited 1 year ago
The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
1 year ago
Reply to  The Real Guest

Continued…

Screenshot_20240902-141707
The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
1 year ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

“While usage is now widespread in most circles in terms of gender-indeterminate antecedents, usage of singular they with gender-determinate antecedents is not overly common, and is still seen by most grammarians as problematic, as it can cause confusion; in the case of the sentence “A man said they needed to use my phone” it is hard to see that “they” refers to the man — it might just as easily refer to a third party. One study indicated that when used with a gender-determinate antecedent, reading time of singular they increases significantly, indicating that use in this situation can be confusing.[11] In these situations, most style guides recommend seeking an alternative to avoid confusion.”

– englishgratis.com-

Steve Koch
Guest
Steve Koch
1 year ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

?

As a culture deteriorates, so does its language.

Politicizing journalism causes journalism and our language to deteriorate.

Leftist Gramscian capture of institutions (such as journalism) politicizes those institutions, making them more useful to the left but making them worse at their original purpose.

pcwindham
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve Koch

Ah yes, Antoine Gramsci, one of the founders of the Marx-based Critical Theory.

Dave
Guest
Dave
1 year ago
Reply to  pcwindham

It’s Antonio Gramsci — Italian, not French — and no he wasn’t though he waa a Marxist who died in prison under Mussolini. Critical Theory came out of the Frankfurt School (Horkheimer, Marcuse, Adorno, etc.) of mostly Jewish Germans who fled the Nazi rise to power and were determined to teach their students how to stop something like that from happening again. They’re worth listening, whereas you are not.

Tangled Massocells
Guest
Tangled Massocells
1 year ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

It’s a part of an evolving nature of language, reflecting my growing understanding and respect for individual identity. There I fixed it for you to be inclusive and respectful to those that do not believe in the political pronoun and “word police” routine.

pcwindham
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

It’s important for the revolution to control language either by changing words entirely or changing their meaning. People think with words and if you can control their vocabulary you can control their thoughts. There’s going to be resistance to silly changes like substituting Latinx for Latino/Latina. I don’t know anyone in the Latino community, including my friends and family, who uses that word. It’s a butchery of the beautiful Spanish language.

Dumboldt
Guest
Dumboldt
1 year ago

FIRED NO tax payer paycheck for you. Lets make Sure we get rid of the DA also this year. America haters don’t belong here teaching students.

Maverick Rhoyd
Guest
Maverick Rhoyd
1 year ago
Reply to  Dumboldt

America has never done ANYTHING wrong. Ever. Full stop. No you can’t argue loser!
But I’ll keep going! For this professor to tarnish the gilded reputation of that shining institute on the hill…just really chaps my slide. Cal Poly Humboldt is the moral center of our community…nay, our American universe! Nothing represents MY AMERICA better than these 17-22 year olds spending four years in our town providing us with urbane cultural improvement. If this professor thinks they can consider engaging with protesting students, you might as well ship me off to communist France to toil in the vineyards for a livable wage, and SOCIALIST healthcare. Disgusting! It ought to be illegal to ever question ANYTHING America does. Or spends money on. Over seas. In different countries. On killing people I’m unfamiliar with.

Kym Kemp
Admin
1 year ago
Reply to  Maverick Rhoyd

<3

havenrich
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Maverick Rhoyd

wow!

Dumboldt
Guest
Dumboldt
1 year ago
Reply to  Maverick Rhoyd

Yep here you get a opinion also .

Dumboldt
Guest
Dumboldt
1 year ago

Looks like his green card is expiring. Send him back to Iran. I am sure they will let him protest there…

Ernie Branscomb
Guest
Ernie Branscomb
1 year ago

They only question remaining is, would you send your kid to this university?

Espino
Guest
Espino
1 year ago

They will, and spend bundles of money in the process. Why, for approval from the tribe and libby atta he, she, it, they, them, boys. There is no substance, merit, or genuine academic struggle. It’s only the optics. What they’ll discover as time rolls on, and the economy dumps, is that the NGO and cushy bureaucrat “jobs” will disappear. Once again, the future will belong to the productive whilst the takers
become just so much chaff in the wind.

Maverick Rhoyd
Guest
Maverick Rhoyd
1 year ago
Reply to  Espino

https://collecttrumpcards.com/
Trump is the most productive human of our time! Send him money to make sure God chooses him as supreme production leader!

CsMisadventures
Guest
CsMisadventures
1 year ago
Reply to  Maverick Rhoyd

Ugh. Go troll somewhere else. Too nice of a day outside for all that.

Pat Bitton
Guest
Pat Bitton
1 year ago

You might want to re-acquaint yourself with the art of satire.

Kym Kemp
Admin
1 year ago
Reply to  Pat Bitton

Maverick is particularly good at satire in my opinion. I find myself making sure I’m not trying to swallow water when I know I’m going to read a comment by them.

Yabut
Guest
Yabut
1 year ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

Setting up a non sequitur Trump mention so as ridicule people out of context is not satire. It is the very definition of trolling.
“In slang, a troll is a person who posts deliberately offensive or provocative messages online (such as in social media, a newsgroup, a forum, a chat room, an online video game) or who performs similar behaviors in real life. The methods and motivations of trolls can range from benign to sadistic. These messages can be inflammatory, insincere, digressive, extraneous, or off-topic, and may have the intent of provoking others into displaying emotional responses, or manipulating others’ perception, thus acting as a bully or a provocateur. ”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(slang)

Maverick Rhoyd
Guest
Maverick Rhoyd
1 year ago
Reply to  Yabut

Waaaaah!
My pronoun is BigBoy!

D'Tucker Jebs
Member
1 year ago

The Admin does not seem to be very trustworthy.
But it’s good to know that there are professors like Aghesaleh who care so much about their students.

Yabut
Guest
Yabut
1 year ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

?

1000000529
Tangled Massocells
Guest
Tangled Massocells
1 year ago

No! And I’m alumni. Wonder if the activist, this story, is about has apologized and remorseful for the hostages murdered

R. Hutson
Guest
1 year ago

Well, it would seem that there are other questions still to be answered, such as ‘why should the University consider reinstating versus firing the professor?‘ or, ‘what does professionalism during campus protests look like on the part of admins or teachers?‘ – at least, those are a couple of the more compelling questions that I had been asked to address in the course of doing this reporting, as it relates to the professor’s disciplinary process…

Teacher
Guest
Teacher
1 year ago

Gee, guess what these dorks are going to do when trump wins in november? Im sure eads will drop charges after those riots too. Cant hold these people accountable.

Apopa
Guest
Apopa
1 year ago

Stop ALL state funding for poly until they become an institution for higher learning. It’s become a place where rich socal parents dump their troubled youth to be attended to like a sitter.

farfromputin
Member
1 year ago

This is a great experience for students from which future employers will benefit.

Hugh Manatee
Member
1 year ago

Hey prof, show up in Gaza and Israel dressed in that garb and see how you are treated?
I suggest visiting Israel first as you aren’t likely to make it out of Gaza.
I will never comprehend someone supporting a group of people who would gladly end your life due to your lifestyle choices.

Chickens for KFC!

Kym Kemp
Admin
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Manatee

And my hero is the ACLU attorney that fought for the right of Nazi’s to march.

Standing up for people who might not stand up for you is heroic in my book

Hugh Manatee
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

Did the ACLU attorney agree with the morals of the nazi party?
Did they march in protest while carrying a nazi flag?
There is a big difference between supporting someone’s right to speak on an issue and supporting the issue itself.

CsMisadventures
Guest
CsMisadventures
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Manatee

Which is her 2nd sentence of a two sentence post. Geez.

Yabut
Guest
Yabut
1 year ago

Not in any way is that true. The Professor would be that if he stood up for Israel. As it is, he simply stands up for his own opinion.

Kym Kemp
Admin
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Manatee

Advocating for the rights of any group doesn’t mean endorsing all their beliefs or actions. It’s about standing by the idea that everyone, regardless of their views, deserves basic human rights and protections.

Last edited 1 year ago
Ernie Branscomb
Guest
Ernie Branscomb
1 year ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

As long as they keep their views off my lawn.

Ernie Branscomb
Guest
Ernie Branscomb
1 year ago

Thousands of dollars of destruction in NOT a right. Their only right is legal representation.

Korina42
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Hugh Manatee

There’s a quote that was popular when I was young; “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” I haven’t heard it in a long, long time.

Yabut
Guest
Yabut
1 year ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

Unless you are one being stood up to? No hero status for that. Free Hot Coffee!
But in this case the issue is who is being criticized in Manatee’s comment. He did not, using your equivalence, critize the person defending the Prof or the students from government censorship while holding different values personally . He criticized the Prof participated in the protest. Despite the pretty thin allegations that the Prof was “worried” about the students as if his presence would be so effective as stopping violence, he did not act to defend their right as a principle. He was arrested when he joined them. He wears a keffiyeh. He can’t claim he is defending the principle of free speech for all when he was also using the principle (sort of) to put himself on side needing defending. If he has any honor, it is not as a defender of the First Amendment.

pcwindham
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Yabut

Well said.

Hugh Manatee
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Yabut

Thanks, you saved me a longer response.
I support every liberal’s right to free speech on any topic they like, no matter how much I disagree. Far more than many of them support mine! I guess I am a hero in Kym’s eyes? ?

Tangled Massocells
Guest
Tangled Massocells
1 year ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

Yeah, like standing up to those who label groups of people nazi’s and racists as a generalized discriminatory stereotype – just because they can – without any proof! Right! No left! Hmmmmmm. Standing up to them happens all the time here.

Lon
Guest
Lon
1 year ago

The focus on the under-100 group of protesters really detracts from the thousands of students who had weeks of education taken from them (hastily converted online classes are not comparable to classroom education) and the graduates who got their ceremony essentially taken away. Yeah, there should be some repercussions for employees who were involved in that. They had to know they were putting their job on the line when they were wading in, you would hope that a professor would be smart enough to make that connection. But they did it anyway. Now claiming a desire to protect students rings pretty hollow when it seems more about self aggrandizement. If they actually cared about the people dying in Gaza, they would be talking about that rather than their job. California is an at-will employment state, people have been fired for a lot less.

Thatguyinarcata
Guest
Thatguyinarcata
1 year ago
Reply to  Lon

The employees you’re talking about who should be punished are the administrators who shut the campus down for several weeks over a protest right?

Lon
Guest
Lon
1 year ago

Sorry if my attempt to use the professor’s pronouns correctly confused you. I was not referring to campus administration. Though the administrators could have done a lot better and certainly could have communicated better with the public, I believe that the closure while the protest was ongoing was the only choice administration had, and consequences for employees who violated those safety measures are justified.

Thatguyinarcata
Guest
Thatguyinarcata
1 year ago
Reply to  Lon

The closure extended well beyond the end of protest.

The administration chose to punish the entire campus community, likely as a tool to increase animosity towards the protestors.

It was pathetic and a terrible example of leadership. But instead of any punishment, that “leadership” was awarded with salaries and benefits that cost all of us several million dollars per year. And all for the service of providing a lower quality education

Martin
Guest
Martin
1 year ago

Hit the road professor know nothing. We don’t need or want teachers like you working at Cal Poly Humboldt. Your views and teachings don’t meet the standards for the school.

D'Tucker Jebs
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Martin

Which of their classes did you attend and what part of their lessons did you disagree with?

Yahbut
Guest
Yahbut
1 year ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

What an off the wall standard to use to attack a commenter. If personal experience were the criteria, there would be almost no ProPalestian comments at all. Nor 90% of the comments on the other subjects.

Martin
Guest
Martin
1 year ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

I have already graduated from what was Humboldt State College, but I am intitled to my opinion regarding teachers that are working there now. She is one that goes against the grain in my book. How about you tell me what classes you attended and what part of the lessons do you disagree with, that is in fact if you actually attended a college. Your turn!

D'Tucker Jebs
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Martin

You are 100% entitled to your opinion.
It was you comment, “Your views and teachings don’t meet the standards for the school.” for which I was seeking clarity.
Which “views and teachings” do not meet which standards?

Martin
Guest
Martin
1 year ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

YOURS!

D'Tucker Jebs
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Martin

I do not set the standards for the university.
I have also never attended any of Aghasaleh’s classes,
so I can’t comment on whether or not they met the university’s standards.
You are the one who commented that they didn’t,
which is why I was hoping you might elaborate.

I like stars
Guest
I like stars
1 year ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

Does he teach the Grooming courses?

RedwayRandy
Guest
RedwayRandy
1 year ago

It is indeed unfortunate that israel casts such a huge footprint on the face of the world.

Yabut
Guest
Yabut
1 year ago
Reply to  RedwayRandy

Israel or no Israel, there has hardly been any time of peace in that area. It has for millennia been invaded, fought over and purged. People cast out, forcibly converted and massacres.
Might as well blame Egypt, Iran, Saudia Arabia. Or Hitler and Italy ( more than one invasion for them) This is nothing new except for the amount of proxy intervention on all sides.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Middle_Eastern_history

spamned
Guest
spamned
1 year ago
Reply to  Yabut

That’s just not true

Americans know shit about history

or much anything else now that our knowledge of how to do shit has been shipped overseas for capitalism

Enzo
Guest
Enzo
1 year ago

He should be terminated from teaching. How can he be in the department of education when he cannot use acceptable English. When he overstepped civil protest and into the arena of stopping others from attending their classes he blew it. Acceptable conduct from a professor or other students does not include behavior that involves destroying and damaging property and disrupting students, faculty and staff from learning, teaching and working

D'Tucker Jebs
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Enzo

If you have evidence that they damaged property, you should hand it over to the DA.
Likewise if you have evidence if they prevented students from learning.
But I’m pretty sure it was the University that closed the campus- not the protesters,
and certainly not this professor.

Yabut
Guest
Yabut
1 year ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

Disingenuous remark. He was not a student to be present in a student protest much less providing encouragement as a professor to students protesting. He was not a spokesperson for the school. He is an employee. Setting out to go against his employer’s authority in an extremely public way then whining about the natural result is not some sort of virtuous position he makes it out to be. Wanting to get paid for his exercise of free speech is pretty arrogant. In the end, the professor/political cabal will win but no one should have to listen to his privileged demands. Is he still getting paid and has all his benefits? Hearts should not break over these entitled perceptions of what a government teacher really is.

Apopa
Guest
Apopa
1 year ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

Great…. your another political science instructor. Theres a million other sciences that would benefit our country besides the crap you advocate.

Pat Bitton
Guest
Pat Bitton
1 year ago
Reply to  Enzo

Since when did education require the use of English, acceptable or otherwise?

Judith Wells
Guest
Judith Wells
1 year ago

In the streets is a fitting place for this kind of behavior.

“Takin’ it to the streets”?

farfromputin
Member
1 year ago

The Eads are really smart lawyers.

bugsbunny
Member
bugsbunny
1 year ago

These punks have no idea what they’re protesting against. I was in the Marines from 1999 to 2004 and in Gaza, they teach their kids to hate Americans and everything we stand for. They call us “infidels”

New Teacher
Guest
New Teacher
1 year ago

Dr. Agasaleh was one of the finest humans on that campus; they teach teachers how to be better people and are damn good at it. As you can see, Rouhollah acts on conviction and would still fight for those principles if you sent them to Antarctica.

Brian
Guest
Brian
1 year ago

This comment section is,”cringe “, as the kids say. Reads like something you’d find on a Fox News thread.

Yabut
Guest
Yabut
1 year ago
Reply to  Brian

Yet here you are…

Brian
Guest
Brian
1 year ago
Reply to  Yabut

I am here and I love Kym. She’s a good friend and neighbor who does amazing work. I still think this comment section is trash, tho?? Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I’m not here to live up to anyone else’s expectations and nobody is here to live up to mine. As i understand, this is a forum where we can express personal views.

Gosh
Guest
Gosh
1 year ago
Reply to  Brian

Kym’s forum slaps!

Yabut
Guest
Yabut
1 year ago
Reply to  Brian

And the cringe part? Would it be the part where, though you say “Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I’m not here to live up to anyone else’s expectations and nobody is here to live up to mine” you still call them trash?

Brian
Guest
Brian
1 year ago
Reply to  Yabut

I didn’t call any person trash. I was referring to the comments themselves, many of which I found to be xenophobic and also, many which I felt put way too much emphasis on whatever pronouns Kym decided to use for people. I will repeat and stand by my statement, “That nobody is here to live up to my expectations” . It is my opinion, and I am sharing it on a forum where people share their opinions.

farfromputin
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Brian

You’re getting it. Hang in there.

spamned
Guest
spamned
1 year ago
Reply to  Brian

free speech is good

looks to be threatened tho

and not by “Trump”

(not a Trumper just a frustrated humanitarian)

melanopsin
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Brian

Once in a while a signal comes through. All the rest is just noise.

farfromputin
Member
1 year ago

Happy Labor Day folks. Thanks for this, as always, diverse stream of thoughts!

crap
Guest
crap
1 year ago

Ahh yes the arrogant elite. They think the rules do not apply to them. Any other job you acted like that you would be immediately fired.

I believe in peaceful protest but that does not entail disrupting others lives or destroying property.

Korina42
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  crap

I gather the Professor joined a group of students who were sitting outside.

Country Joe
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  crap

Deport him.

Kicking Bull
Guest
Kicking Bull
1 year ago

Must I have an opinion? Must everyone?

I’m impressed by the professors ability to stand up to the mobocracy. More often it is this professional managerial class that has handed all of its autonomous authority over to the institution: The heartless soulless mindless institution, the corporate corpse, non-player character culture. I wonder if the advanced degree holder can answer the question that has plagued humanity since the dawn of .. the intelligence* community* introducing it as a neat new divisive diversionary tactic… “What is a womb man?” Back before all this infused confusion to be a drag queen took big balls! What was once a celebration of the individual in defiance of authority has been institutionalized and become authoritarian in its rule. And war is bad. ?

Robin Donald
Guest
Robin Donald
1 year ago

With the repeated suspension of Rouhollah Aghasaleh the Faculty Affairs Office at Cal Poly through its Vice President for Faculty Affairs Kimberly N. White is joining in the modern-day version of the post WWII House Committee on Un-American Activities (known as HUAC) which resulted in the blacklisting and eventual boycotting (proactive firing) of 300 artists. Today’s version, the House Committee on Education and the Workforce has interrogated university presidents about how their institutions were combatting antisemitism, ensuring campus safety and protecting free speech. After being demonized at this hearing the Presidents of Harvard and Pennsylvania resigned—I call this a self-firing.

These Presidents and the subject of Ryan Hutson’s story, Professor Rouhollah Aghasaleh, are not alone in being disciplined in the wake of pro-Palestinian student protests. As Hutson writes: “According to reporting by NPR in May,.. there ‘is no exact tally of how many professors have been arrested, according to the AAUP, but news stories and social media reports suggest the numbers are steadily mounting.’”

Not content with attacking Professors and Academic leaders, House Speaker Mike Johnson, relishing his role as a latter-day Joseph McCarthy, announced the House Committee would initiate a “house-wide effort to crack down on antisemitism on college campuses…. Over the last few weeks we’ve seen absolute lawlessness and chaos on college and university campuses across America,… it’s not right and everybody in this country knows it.” He threatened the leaders of academia that “if they don’t correct this quickly, you will see Congress respond in time….You’re gonna see funding sources begin to dry up,… You’re gonna see every level of accountability that we can muster.” Joe McCarthy would be proud.

The damning question Joe McCarthy asked of those dragged before HUAC in the late 1940s was “Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party?” After October 7, 2023 MSM took up the inquisitor role of HUAC by asking of any Palestinian or person critical of the U.S.-Israeli genocide in Gaza brave enough to be interviewed: “Do you support Hamas?” and “Do you condemn anti-Semitism?”

The purpose of the first question was to decontextualize the over 100 year attack on Palestinian sovereignty, especially the violence of 1948 when 400 towns were destroyed and 750,000 Palestinians were ethnically cleansed so the state of Israel could be created, and thereby have us condemn Hamas for what is internationally recognized to be the legitimate right of occupied Palestinian to resist their Occupation. The purpose of the second question is to conflate the predominantly European origins of today’s Israeli citizens with their supposedly semitic origins, and in the process declare that any criticism of the Apartheid state of Israel is anti-Jewish racism.

Meanwhile the original impetus for the student sit-ins at universities all over the country and at Siemens Hall, the U.S. funded and empowered Israeli genocide of Palestinians, continues unabated. The internationally renown British medical journal the Lancet of July 20, 2024 stated that “Applying a conservative estimate of four indirect deaths per one direct death to the 37,396 deaths reported, it is not implausible to estimate that up to 186,000 or even more deaths could be attributable to the current conflict in Gaza.”

But these substantive issues—ongoing genocide of Palestinians funded with our tax dollars, and political persecution of institutions of higher education and academics—do not deter the majority of commentators here from continuing to objectively self-identify as honorary members of the original “Down with Graffiti, Up with Genocide Gang” and focus instead on the picayune. Only now they have employed their parochial (and Patriarchal) minds to not only pick away at “vandalism” but to also be incensed about the proprietary use of pronouns.

Would they be so cavalier with their opinions and judgements if, instead of hiding behind pseudonyms, they used their real names?

Kym Kemp
Admin
1 year ago
Reply to  Robin Donald

If only most of RHBB’s letters to the letter were this well written and argued. I don’t agree with everything–Folks on Facebook with their names attached and children’s photos nearby express themselves similarly–but I vastly appreciate the quality.

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
1 year ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

Well written and argued?

Well written perhaps but well argued?

Hardly!

The author begins by conflating the suspension of a CPH professor under investigation for violation of campus policies (based on their refusal to end their participation in the illegal occupation of campus buildings) with Senator Joe McCarthy’s HUAC witch hunt!

The author’s characterization of their supposed litmus test questions also fails.

The question: “Do you support Hamas?” has not decontextualized the history of Israel’s campaign of terror, ethnic cleansing and oppression preceding it’s creation and continuing until today, but has provided a platform to explain that 10/7 did not occur in a vacuum, but, horrific as it was, was a response to the ongoing repression and denial of Palestinian rights.

Likewise, the second question: “Do you support antisemitism?” has not silenced criticism of Israel as an apartheid state but has provided a platform to explain that criticism of Israel and opposition to the genocidal destruction of Gaza are not attacks on Jewish people or the Jewish religion and are not antisemitic.

The author refuses to acknowledge that it was the ill considered takeover and violent defense of buildings that resulted in the original point of the protests at CPH being lost and derides the focus on property destruction and vandalism as petty.

Despite the hijacking of the protests at CPH and other college and university campuses, the true history of Israel as a country founded by a calculated campaign of terror and ethnic cleansing, and sustained by the ongoing oppression of Palestinian rights, continues to gain traction.

The original article quotes Professor Aghasaleh as saying: “This isn’t about me….” but obviously it is about him and his “teaching in exile” and his self-serving explanations for being part of the trespass, building occupation and refusal to leave the closed campus although repeatedly told to do so by university and law enforcement authorities.

But there’s no mention of the subject of the supposed “class in exile” and scarcely any mention of the protests that preceded the occupation of the buildings – the sole focus of the article is the Professor.

And since the Professor prefers pronouns that confuse the number and gender of persons being referred to, it should not be a surprise that pronouns became part of the discussion.

Robin Donald
Guest
Robin Donald
1 year ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

The attached segment from today’s Democracy Now! puts the lie to your refuting that my calling Cal Poly’s suspension of Professor Rouhollah Aghasaleh is part of a modern day version of HUAC’s McCarthyist witch hunt. You are correct that the efforts to decontextualize Hamas’ Al Aqsa Mosque Campaign on October 7, 2023 whose planned assault was on Israeli Military bases, and to conflate anti-semitism with criticism of Apartheid Israel’s Occupation of Palestine project have failed. But only because of the push-back by people who know better, not because the effort was no attempted to be made. Now this effort is targeting criticism of the political ideology, “Zionism,” under the false claim that it is a code-word for anti-Jewish rhetoric.

https://www.democracynow.org/2024/9/5/steven_thrasher

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
1 year ago
Reply to  Robin Donald

Democracy Now! ?

I love Amy Goodman but her rhetorical agreement doesn’t elevate the House Republicans political posturing to the level of perfidy exemplified by McCarthy.

Robin Donald
Guest
Robin Donald
1 year ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

Convince me you actually watched the DN! segment I posted. Because the political persecution of academia–students and professors–amounts, despite your puerile pablum of denial, to a modern-day McCarthyism.

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
1 year ago
Reply to  Robin Donald

I don’t need to convince you of anything, nor would I try.

It’s enough to know I’m right and you’re wrong – but let me know when you get your subpoena, ok? Ha, Ha!

Robin Donald
Guest
Robin Donald
1 year ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

More evidence that all you have is the puerile pablum of denial:

Are restrictions on pro-Palestine speech ‘the new McCarthyism?’

https://www.aljazeera.com/program/the-bottom-line/2024/9/8/are-restrictions-on-pro-palestine-speech-the-new-mccarthyism

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
1 year ago
Reply to  Robin Donald

Al Jazeera?

Ha, Ha!

I know you’re disappointed I’m unwilling to confer martyr status on a self-absorbed but inconsequential CPH professor, but I’m not.

So have another dish of cruel gruel to go with your childish insults.

Good day!

Last edited 1 year ago
pcwindham
Member
1 year ago
Reply to  Robin Donald

A true believer! You do a good job with the language of the revolution – decontextualize, ethnic cleansing, patriarchy. You left out decolonize and oppressed/oppressor. Saving those for the next post?

Tammy Farmer
Guest
Tammy Farmer
1 year ago

The university has a responsibility to maintain a safe, constructive environment for ALL students. If the administration doesn’t take steps to hold educators accountable for ensuring this, students who were affected by the disruption deserve a partial refund. We are here for an education, not for behavior that undermines our academic experience.

Neko Baker
Guest
Neko Baker
1 year ago

I don’t trust people who wear rose tinted glasses