Kettenpom Murders Linked to Marijuana

The Kristine Constantino residence where the double murder occurred showed “evidence of a marijuana operation ” according to the Trinity County Sheriff’s Dept. which sent the following Press Release: (see earlier posts here and here)

On March 13, 2011 at approximately 4:45 pm the Trinity County Sheriff’s Office Dispatch Center

received a phone call from Humboldt CHP Dispatch regarding a female subject who had called

911 asking for help. The 911 call was made from a cell phone so the call went to the Humboldt

CHP Dispatch Center.

 

Due to Kettenpom being such a remote town a responding Deputy contacted near-by residents

James and Norma Gund to obtain information regarding the female caller who had called the

Humboldt CHP Dispatch Center.

 

A short time later the Trinity County Sheriff’s Office Dispatch Center received a 911 call from the

Kettenpom Store requesting medical for Norma Gund who had been stabbed. A second 911

call was received several minutes later from the Kettenpom Store by James Gund stating that

he had been stabbed and needed medical also.

 

Medical was dispatched and Deputies responding to the Kettenpom area received additional

information that there were possibly two additional victims at a residence in the Kettenpom area

near the airstrip.

 

In an interview conducted by Detectives with James Gund he stated that he and his wife Norma

Gund went to check the residence of victim Kristine Constantino. Norma Gund went up to the

residence first. James Gund heard some commotion coming from the Constantino residence

and went to the house to find suspect Tomas Gouverneur attacking Norma Gund. Gouverneur

attacked Mr. Gund as he entered the residence. Mrs. Gund fled the residence and got into her

personal vehicle and drove to the Kettenpom Store. Mr. Gund was able to take the knife from

Gouverneur and left the residence on foot. While Mr. Gund was enroute to his residence he

observed Gouverneur leave the Constantino residence in a teal green vehicle with Oregon

plates. Once Mr. Gund reached his residence he drove himself to the Kettenpom Store in his

personal vehicle.

Victims James and Norma Gund were transported to Garberville Hospital via ambulance. James

Gund was released from the Hospital on March 14, 2011. Norma Gund was transported to UC

Davis Medical Center in Sacramento, California for surgery relating to stab injuries and is listed

in stable condition at this time.

 

Once Officers arrived at the residence, two victims Kristine Constantino and Christopher

Richardson were located in the residence and both were deceased. While Detectives, Deputies

and the California Department of Justice were processing the scene of the Constantino

residence they discovered evidence of a marijuana operation.

 

Information received from victim James Gund indicated that the suspect had fled the area and

was possibly driving a teal green vehicle with Oregon plates. This information was relayed to the

surrounding counties and CHP.

 

Some time later Mendocino County Sheriff’s Office attempted to stop a vehicle that matched the

description of suspect Tomas Gouverneur’s vehicle. The driver of the vehicle failed to stop and

a vehicle pursuit was initiated. The pursuit was ended when Gouverneur’s vehicle crashed on

Highway 101 South. Gouverneur was pronounced dead at the crash scene.

 

On March 16, 2011 Trinity County Sheriff’s Office Detectives and the California Department of

Justice travelled to Ukiah, California to attend the autopsy of Tomas Gouverneur. It was

preliminarily determined that Gouverneur died of blunt force trauma to the head, however

toxicology results are pending. Later that day Trinity County Sheriff’s Office Detectives served a

search warrant on Gouverneur’s vehicle and located evidence linking him to the crime that

occurred in Kettenpom. Located in the vehicle was identically packaged marijuana which was

also located at the residence in Kettenpom. The marijuana was packaged for sales. Also

located in Gouverneur’s vehicle with the bag of marijuana was cash. Other items of evidentiary

value were found in the suspect’s car and on his person. These items are not being release

due to an ongoing investigation.

 

An autopsy was performed on March 15, 2011 for victims Kristine Constantino and Christopher

Richardson. The cause of death for both victims is pending the pathologist’s report.

 

Victim James Gund has identified suspect Tomas Gouverneur as the person who stabbed him

and his wife, Norma Gund.

 

Agencies Involved:

 

Trinity County Sheriff’s Office

Mendocino County Sheriff’s Office

Humboldt County Sheriff’s Office

Kettenpom Fire Department

Southern Trinity Area Rescue (STAR)

California Department of Justice

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461 comments

  • Tragic. Tragic. Tragic. To me at this point, never knowing everything, intense insanity was the cause of this crime. But nothing eases the heartbreak of needless death. I am so sorry.

  • The marijuana operation doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with the murders.

    I wonder if Tomas had taken some drug and freaked out?

  • The marijuana operation doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with the murders.

    I wonder if Tomas had taken some drug and freaked out?

  • His friends said Mas was a teddy bear. But if you crossed him, he became vicious. Sad as this story is, it didn’t surprise me at all.

    • This is the first I am hearing that there was a negative or mean side to Tomas. Very ineresting.

      • There are plenty of people out there who come across as just the sweetest person in the world — until, all of the sudden, they’re not.

        It’s a fact of human behavior that some individuals will, at some point, act in ways that seem utterly unpredictable, even to those who knew that individual best.

        In fact it’s so commonplace that vicious murders turn out to be committed by otherwise ordinary-seeming people that there is this almost archetypal TV interview with the family member, friend or neighbor where they express how shocked they are because the person they know “could never have done such a thing.” It’s so common that it’s kind of become a cliche at this point.

        • It’s actually not common. Most people don’t have this kind of violence in them, and if they do, the people around them know it.

          The cliche is normally about ‘quiet’ people–people who others didn’t really know at all and just kept to themselves, and they surprise people with the darkness in them. Tomas was not quiet, did not keep to himself, and was well-known by many. There is nothing typical or cliche about this situation.

          • I’m sorry, but I must disagree. Yes, “he was such a quiet man, mostly kept to himself” or even “he seemed like a bit of a loner” are some of the common things that interviews with neighbors often include.

            But there are also plenty of other cases in which friends and relatives describe the suspect as having been a normal, loving, sociable person that “no one would ever have thought capable of such a thing.”

            I know that we all want to believe that we can tell whether the people we know would ever be “capable” of such an atrocity, but the fact is that sometimes we can’t tell. People may have a dark side that they hide well, maybe even from themselves, but which suddenly asserts itself in a stress situation and they act in ways no one could have predicted.

          • As unbelievable and frightening as it is, over 65% of murders are committed by friends and family of the victim.
            Crimes of passion.

        • I was going to say, several people that I’ve met in my life who have
          come across as the utmost caring and loving , have actually
          been just the opposite. It was a cover up for who they really
          were. I didn’t know the suspect but have wondered if he was
          under the influence of something. I’m sure he wasn’t desperate
          for money if he was making trips back east where he would
          double his money.

          • i knew mas, as a friend at first. then after a simple misunderstanding, he decided i was his enemy. despite numerous attempts to reconcile, apologize, make it right he still thought i was out to get him. paranoid people will be nice to those who they think are friends, but treat the rest as enemies. maybe this happened with his friend sky. suddenly he became an enemy and had to be eliminated. the fact he had a tazer with him and chose to cut their throats meant it was premeditated and with clear intent to kill. perhaps mas flipped out and went psychotic, with the help of some psychedelics. or maybe he was under the influence of the black market, and felt he was being ripped off. we may never know. but as one who knew him, yes mas had a very dark side which he kept hidden from those who saw him as a “teddy bear giant”. i saw the dark side, and was horrified at this story – wondering if i might have been his next victim.

      • We need to remember anyone can reply to this site. I may know who Joe is. The Joe I am thinking of, I can’t mentions his name to others without some of them making threats. Sad. (If I am mistaken, sorry) I think we need to be patient and supportive and hopefully the truth will come.

    • I have known Mas for years, and have never seen him “vicious”. The most violence I have ever seen from him is him shaking a finger at someone in disdain. More often than not I have seen him confront violence with the open armed approach of a pacifist despite his size. This story shakes me to the very core, there is violence within the human soul and to many of us feed this daily, Tomas was veered from that path to find a better way. The idea that he is the suspect in such a heinous and brutal murder is unfathomable to me.

  • His friends said Mas was a teddy bear. But if you crossed him, he became vicious. Sad as this story is, it didn’t surprise me at all.

    • This is the first I am hearing that there was a negative or mean side to Tomas. Very ineresting.

      • There are plenty of people out there who come across as just the sweetest person in the world — until, all of the sudden, they’re not.

        It’s a fact of human behavior that some individuals will, at some point, act in ways that seem utterly unpredictable, even to those who knew that individual best.

        In fact it’s so commonplace that vicious murders turn out to be committed by otherwise ordinary-seeming people that there is this almost archetypal TV interview with the family member, friend or neighbor where they express how shocked they are because the person they know “could never have done such a thing.” It’s so common that it’s kind of become a cliche at this point.

        • It’s actually not common. Most people don’t have this kind of violence in them, and if they do, the people around them know it.

          The cliche is normally about ‘quiet’ people–people who others didn’t really know at all and just kept to themselves, and they surprise people with the darkness in them. Tomas was not quiet, did not keep to himself, and was well-known by many. There is nothing typical or cliche about this situation.

          • I’m sorry, but I must disagree. Yes, “he was such a quiet man, mostly kept to himself” or even “he seemed like a bit of a loner” are some of the common things that interviews with neighbors often include.

            But there are also plenty of other cases in which friends and relatives describe the suspect as having been a normal, loving, sociable person that “no one would ever have thought capable of such a thing.”

            I know that we all want to believe that we can tell whether the people we know would ever be “capable” of such an atrocity, but the fact is that sometimes we can’t tell. People may have a dark side that they hide well, maybe even from themselves, but which suddenly asserts itself in a stress situation and they act in ways no one could have predicted.

          • As unbelievable and frightening as it is, over 65% of murders are committed by friends and family of the victim.
            Crimes of passion.

        • I was going to say, several people that I’ve met in my life who have
          come across as the utmost caring and loving , have actually
          been just the opposite. It was a cover up for who they really
          were. I didn’t know the suspect but have wondered if he was
          under the influence of something. I’m sure he wasn’t desperate
          for money if he was making trips back east where he would
          double his money.

          • i knew mas, as a friend at first. then after a simple misunderstanding, he decided i was his enemy. despite numerous attempts to reconcile, apologize, make it right he still thought i was out to get him. paranoid people will be nice to those who they think are friends, but treat the rest as enemies. maybe this happened with his friend sky. suddenly he became an enemy and had to be eliminated. the fact he had a tazer with him and chose to cut their throats meant it was premeditated and with clear intent to kill. perhaps mas flipped out and went psychotic, with the help of some psychedelics. or maybe he was under the influence of the black market, and felt he was being ripped off. we may never know. but as one who knew him, yes mas had a very dark side which he kept hidden from those who saw him as a “teddy bear giant”. i saw the dark side, and was horrified at this story – wondering if i might have been his next victim.

      • We need to remember anyone can reply to this site. I may know who Joe is. The Joe I am thinking of, I can’t mentions his name to others without some of them making threats. Sad. (If I am mistaken, sorry) I think we need to be patient and supportive and hopefully the truth will come.

    • I have known Mas for years, and have never seen him “vicious”. The most violence I have ever seen from him is him shaking a finger at someone in disdain. More often than not I have seen him confront violence with the open armed approach of a pacifist despite his size. This story shakes me to the very core, there is violence within the human soul and to many of us feed this daily, Tomas was veered from that path to find a better way. The idea that he is the suspect in such a heinous and brutal murder is unfathomable to me.

  • Tthis is just one more reason marijuana should be legalized. Take the profit motive away and end tragedies like this one.

  • Tthis is just one more reason marijuana should be legalized. Take the profit motive away and end tragedies like this one.

  • I went to school with Kris in Cortland NY. She was voted class clown, and was one of the funniest people, sweet, and had beautiful eyes. She played lacrosse and field hockey, and had many friends. Although I can’t say I knew much of her after high school, I am saddened by this loss. My deepest condolences to the Constanino family, and to those who knew her well.

    I do wish you post a picture of her bright smile, rather than a bag of weed…she was much more than that.

    • K,
      I would love to post a picture of her. I would gladly make her her own memorial page like I did for Sky right below if that is what folks want but I’m only able to publish what I have. Bloggers often depend on their readers to help gather the news. I searched Kris’s name but wasn’t able to tell for sure what pictures might be hers.

  • I went to school with Kris in Cortland NY. She was voted class clown, and was one of the funniest people, sweet, and had beautiful eyes. She played lacrosse and field hockey, and had many friends. Although I can’t say I knew much of her after high school, I am saddened by this loss. My deepest condolences to the Constanino family, and to those who knew her well.

    I do wish you post a picture of her bright smile, rather than a bag of weed…she was much more than that.

    • K,
      I would love to post a picture of her. I would gladly make her her own memorial page like I did for Sky right below if that is what folks want but I’m only able to publish what I have. Bloggers often depend on their readers to help gather the news. I searched Kris’s name but wasn’t able to tell for sure what pictures might be hers.

  • Here’s a little thought experiment: Imagine if you are in a coastal town in Maine. A murder happens, and in the course of investigating the murder the authorities note that there are lobster pots at both the victim’s home and in the back of the suspect’s pickup truck. Would the headline be “…murders linked to lobster” ?

    The problem with the “linked to marijuana” claim is that no link has actually been demonstrated. Maybe there was some kind of ganja-related dispute, maybe not, we don’t know at this point.

    By the way, if some real evidence does emerge which demonstrated that a ganja-related dispute was in some way behind this incident, then I’d argue that a better headline would be “Kettenpom murders linked to Prohibition.”

    • tra, you are right that prohibition would be more accurate than marijuana.

    • Your post was great. I think the link is that the packaging mas had in his car matched the packaged pot at Sky’s house…but yes prohibition is to blame for sure if it was pot related.

      • Thanks FOS,

        It seems to me that there aren’t all that many different ways to package cannabis, so that alone still doesn’t make the “link” for me, unless there was something very unusual about how it was packaged. Maybe there will be more specific details forthcoming at some point, that will explain just how similar that packaging was, and whether it was any different than the usual ways of packaging the stuff. Or maybe other evidence will come to light that will render that a moot point.

        There may well be a more convincing “link,” and if so it sounds like you and Kym and I — and hopefully many others — agree that (1) prohibition is the root cause of cannabis-related violence, and (2) that involvement in with growing or distributing cannabis does not in any way justify someone being murdered.

        My concern is that when the cops prematurely “link” the murder to the possibility that the victims and the perpetrator may have been in growing or selling cannabis, that can become an all-too-convenient way to not look much further into motives, the involvement of others, etc. Whether intentional or not, this “linking” ends up coming across as, to some degree, “blaming the victims” for the fact that they were murdered.

        I suppose it’s reassuring to those not involved in growing or selling cannabis, but the danger is that it’s a false reassurance, especially if some guilty party goes free because of an investigation that is too quick to assume a motive and scenario. I’m not saying that the cops are doing that here — hopefully they are looking at evey possible angle — I’m just saying that’s the risk of defaulting to the “of, it’s just another pot-related killing” explanation.

        • Good points and I agree that making the link that it was why it happened is dangerous. Time will tell.

        • He is accused of tasering and killing two people, one victim was his fiancee’s childhood friend! Legalizing marijuana will not eliminate this level of violence. I knew Mas but never saw his dark side of greed and hatred. I hope justice prevails and the CA Dept. of Justice resolves this matter for the sake of the community.

  • Here’s a little thought experiment: Imagine if you are in a coastal town in Maine. A murder happens, and in the course of investigating the murder the authorities note that there are lobster pots at both the victim’s home and in the back of the suspect’s pickup truck. Would the headline be “…murders linked to lobster” ?

    The problem with the “linked to marijuana” claim is that no link has actually been demonstrated. Maybe there was some kind of ganja-related dispute, maybe not, we don’t know at this point.

    By the way, if some real evidence does emerge which demonstrated that a ganja-related dispute was in some way behind this incident, then I’d argue that a better headline would be “Kettenpom murders linked to Prohibition.”

    • tra, you are right that prohibition would be more accurate than marijuana.

    • Your post was great. I think the link is that the packaging mas had in his car matched the packaged pot at Sky’s house…but yes prohibition is to blame for sure if it was pot related.

      • Thanks FOS,

        It seems to me that there aren’t all that many different ways to package cannabis, so that alone still doesn’t make the “link” for me, unless there was something very unusual about how it was packaged. Maybe there will be more specific details forthcoming at some point, that will explain just how similar that packaging was, and whether it was any different than the usual ways of packaging the stuff. Or maybe other evidence will come to light that will render that a moot point.

        There may well be a more convincing “link,” and if so it sounds like you and Kym and I — and hopefully many others — agree that (1) prohibition is the root cause of cannabis-related violence, and (2) that involvement in with growing or distributing cannabis does not in any way justify someone being murdered.

        My concern is that when the cops prematurely “link” the murder to the possibility that the victims and the perpetrator may have been in growing or selling cannabis, that can become an all-too-convenient way to not look much further into motives, the involvement of others, etc. Whether intentional or not, this “linking” ends up coming across as, to some degree, “blaming the victims” for the fact that they were murdered.

        I suppose it’s reassuring to those not involved in growing or selling cannabis, but the danger is that it’s a false reassurance, especially if some guilty party goes free because of an investigation that is too quick to assume a motive and scenario. I’m not saying that the cops are doing that here — hopefully they are looking at evey possible angle — I’m just saying that’s the risk of defaulting to the “of, it’s just another pot-related killing” explanation.

        • Good points and I agree that making the link that it was why it happened is dangerous. Time will tell.

        • He is accused of tasering and killing two people, one victim was his fiancee’s childhood friend! Legalizing marijuana will not eliminate this level of violence. I knew Mas but never saw his dark side of greed and hatred. I hope justice prevails and the CA Dept. of Justice resolves this matter for the sake of the community.

  • Kristine was dearly beloved by our family. She was a kind and loving person with a heart full of fun. She was considerate, thoughtful and warm. She was a hard worker and a moral person, and nonjudgmental too. She was beautiful both inside and out.
    We talked about lots of different things over lots of days. It’s almost impossible to refer to her in the past tense. It’s incomprehensible that she is gone. Our pain is very large. My husband and I are devastated and in shock. And how can we tell our daughter, who had a very special relationship with her, that Kristine is gone? They made dates and went to visit the horses, or dunked in the freezing river in some cold month, to laugh together. They laughed and shivered, and laughed. How do I tell my child? There’s no rational explanation for our Kristine to be gone. It’s awful.

    But the pain Kristine’s mother and brothers must feel is just too awful for words.

    Our deepest empathy goes out to you.

  • Kristine was dearly beloved by our family. She was a kind and loving person with a heart full of fun. She was considerate, thoughtful and warm. She was a hard worker and a moral person, and nonjudgmental too. She was beautiful both inside and out.
    We talked about lots of different things over lots of days. It’s almost impossible to refer to her in the past tense. It’s incomprehensible that she is gone. Our pain is very large. My husband and I are devastated and in shock. And how can we tell our daughter, who had a very special relationship with her, that Kristine is gone? They made dates and went to visit the horses, or dunked in the freezing river in some cold month, to laugh together. They laughed and shivered, and laughed. How do I tell my child? There’s no rational explanation for our Kristine to be gone. It’s awful.

    But the pain Kristine’s mother and brothers must feel is just too awful for words.

    Our deepest empathy goes out to you.

  • I am so sick to read how people said nice things about scumbag Tomas. He took my sister in law’s life and her boyfriend Sky. I do not care if it involves marijuana or not. Nobody deserves to be killed like this. We are suffering greatly pain.
    Kristine was a free spirit, sweet, loving, kind, and understanding person. She is a person that i know for sure that have a beauty both inside and out. Never once wanted to harm anybody.
    I lost my best friend and my life will forever change. I miss her terrible. I will send you pictures of her, how can i send them to you Kym.

    • kym’s email is mskymkemp@gmail.com

      I knew both mas and sky but I didn’t know kristine, please share her with us

    • An old ex and friend of tomas

      You believe what you need to believe to sleep at night. His friends know the truth about him. I understand you’re hurting and upset, so feel how you need to feel, but we know.

      • Regardless of what you know about this Tomas fellow, he took an important person from her family and friends lives. There is no reason for such a mindless act to happen and there will never be a good enough reason for what transpired to have happened. Clearly you did not know Kristine as others have known her. Clearly you didn’t know him very well either if you think he’s still a good person after taking her away from everyone who loves her for no reason. And there will be no “sleep at night” from a loss such as this. She was a beautiful soul that never had an ill will towards anyone the entire time I was blessed to know her.

      • What we know is that your ex and friend murdered two gentle, innocent people. That is the truth. Mas got off too easy. His death was quick and painless, unlike what he gave his victims.
        You never really knew who he was.

        • Quote Anami:
          “What we [Bold]are Told[/Bold] is that your ex and friend murdered two gentle, innocent people. That is the [Bold]As Reported NEWS[/Bold]. Mas got off too easy. His death was quick and painless, unlike what he gave his victims.
          You never really knew who he was.”
          Fixed that for accuracy.

          If you’ve been reading the news they haven’t been correct of much on this case to date.

          • One hours-long error about Kristine’s relationship to Mas is the only error I’ve seen in the news. Get a grip, Sean. Your buddy Mas was a murderer.

            • Also, the cops and the Gunds haven;t been able to get the story straight on whether or not the deputy asked them to go over to the house.

              • You obviously have no idea what’s going on, and judging from your comments you haven’t read the officials news releases. This all started before the Gunds were even in the picture. For your outlandish theory to be correct, the Gunds would have somehow staged a 911 call from Kristine’s phone, and somehow HOPED that the cops would call them to go check.

                Please get a grip. Your buddy Mas was a drug-dealing murderer.

                • Or a deputy is lying. Someone isn’t telling the truth, since the sheriff’s office and Jim Gund have given very different accounts of that phone call between the deputy and the Gunds.

                  Not sure what you think my ‘theory’ is. My only real theory is that this isn’t going to be fully investigated, because of all the vigorous hand-waving going on in this community. ‘Case closed!’ you yell. ‘No such thing as innocent until proven guilty anymore! It would be crazy to check any facts or do any testing! Only a jerk would ask any additional questions, please everyone just go home now!’

                • I don’t think people are saying don’t ask questions. I think people are saying unless you have some serious evidence you could ruin the lives of what appears to be very good neighbors who have suffered terribly already. Asking questions about situations that don’t make sense can be done in a manner sensitive to this issue.

      • KM Rochester, NY

        “An old ex and friend of tomas says”:
        -March 18, 2011 at 3:04 pm-
        “You believe what you need to believe to sleep at night. His friends know the truth about him. I understand you’re hurting and upset, so feel how you need to feel, but we know.”

        Are you for real? You understand us hurting, his friends know the truth about him? Because “you know”. Believe what we have to so we can sleep at night? The dude slashed 4 peoples throats? hello? If you knew him so well then you know why he did this? Tell me please? Help the hundreds of people who’s lives have been crushed because your friend killed human beings? Um, that dosen’t sound kind and gental, it was personal and horrible. He was sick and needed help. Where were you? Why didn’t you stop him if you knew him so well. Don’t you dare tell anyone we need to believe what we do to sleep. because none of will ever be the same again. She was the sweetest person and full of life and he took it, period. How could he kill his friend, drugs or no drugs he was ill. I appreciate you sticking up for your friend, but he lost that right when he killed people. What about his family? How do you think they are sleeping? The are devistated as well, why arn’t you over there helping them. How many family’s have to be hurt before people like you stop sticking up for a murder? You must of known Sky, your friend killed him too. But you knew? What ever old ex and a friend, you knew………….

        • Friend of Sky and Mas

          Well not that I don’t agree with you, but let’s stick to the facts. He did slash Norma and Jim’s throats, but Kristine and Sky were strangled. That came directly from the father of one of the victims. Sky was hit with a tazer and strangled and Kristine was strangled. That explains how Mas was not covered in blood for the conspiracy theorists. Also, I can understand you wanting NOT to hear the “opinions” of other people, but they are just that. Opinions. Everyone is in pain, lashing out at others who are also in pain doesn’t help anyone.

  • I am so sick to read how people said nice things about scumbag Tomas. He took my sister in law’s life and her boyfriend Sky. I do not care if it involves marijuana or not. Nobody deserves to be killed like this. We are suffering greatly pain.
    Kristine was a free spirit, sweet, loving, kind, and understanding person. She is a person that i know for sure that have a beauty both inside and out. Never once wanted to harm anybody.
    I lost my best friend and my life will forever change. I miss her terrible. I will send you pictures of her, how can i send them to you Kym.

    • kym’s email is mskymkemp@gmail.com

      I knew both mas and sky but I didn’t know kristine, please share her with us

    • An old ex and friend of tomas

      You believe what you need to believe to sleep at night. His friends know the truth about him. I understand you’re hurting and upset, so feel how you need to feel, but we know.

      • Regardless of what you know about this Tomas fellow, he took an important person from her family and friends lives. There is no reason for such a mindless act to happen and there will never be a good enough reason for what transpired to have happened. Clearly you did not know Kristine as others have known her. Clearly you didn’t know him very well either if you think he’s still a good person after taking her away from everyone who loves her for no reason. And there will be no “sleep at night” from a loss such as this. She was a beautiful soul that never had an ill will towards anyone the entire time I was blessed to know her.

      • What we know is that your ex and friend murdered two gentle, innocent people. That is the truth. Mas got off too easy. His death was quick and painless, unlike what he gave his victims.
        You never really knew who he was.

        • Quote Anami:
          “What we [Bold]are Told[/Bold] is that your ex and friend murdered two gentle, innocent people. That is the [Bold]As Reported NEWS[/Bold]. Mas got off too easy. His death was quick and painless, unlike what he gave his victims.
          You never really knew who he was.”
          Fixed that for accuracy.

          If you’ve been reading the news they haven’t been correct of much on this case to date.

          • One hours-long error about Kristine’s relationship to Mas is the only error I’ve seen in the news. Get a grip, Sean. Your buddy Mas was a murderer.

            • Also, the cops and the Gunds haven;t been able to get the story straight on whether or not the deputy asked them to go over to the house.

              • You obviously have no idea what’s going on, and judging from your comments you haven’t read the officials news releases. This all started before the Gunds were even in the picture. For your outlandish theory to be correct, the Gunds would have somehow staged a 911 call from Kristine’s phone, and somehow HOPED that the cops would call them to go check.

                Please get a grip. Your buddy Mas was a drug-dealing murderer.

                • Or a deputy is lying. Someone isn’t telling the truth, since the sheriff’s office and Jim Gund have given very different accounts of that phone call between the deputy and the Gunds.

                  Not sure what you think my ‘theory’ is. My only real theory is that this isn’t going to be fully investigated, because of all the vigorous hand-waving going on in this community. ‘Case closed!’ you yell. ‘No such thing as innocent until proven guilty anymore! It would be crazy to check any facts or do any testing! Only a jerk would ask any additional questions, please everyone just go home now!’

                • I don’t think people are saying don’t ask questions. I think people are saying unless you have some serious evidence you could ruin the lives of what appears to be very good neighbors who have suffered terribly already. Asking questions about situations that don’t make sense can be done in a manner sensitive to this issue.

      • KM Rochester, NY

        “An old ex and friend of tomas says”:
        -March 18, 2011 at 3:04 pm-
        “You believe what you need to believe to sleep at night. His friends know the truth about him. I understand you’re hurting and upset, so feel how you need to feel, but we know.”

        Are you for real? You understand us hurting, his friends know the truth about him? Because “you know”. Believe what we have to so we can sleep at night? The dude slashed 4 peoples throats? hello? If you knew him so well then you know why he did this? Tell me please? Help the hundreds of people who’s lives have been crushed because your friend killed human beings? Um, that dosen’t sound kind and gental, it was personal and horrible. He was sick and needed help. Where were you? Why didn’t you stop him if you knew him so well. Don’t you dare tell anyone we need to believe what we do to sleep. because none of will ever be the same again. She was the sweetest person and full of life and he took it, period. How could he kill his friend, drugs or no drugs he was ill. I appreciate you sticking up for your friend, but he lost that right when he killed people. What about his family? How do you think they are sleeping? The are devistated as well, why arn’t you over there helping them. How many family’s have to be hurt before people like you stop sticking up for a murder? You must of known Sky, your friend killed him too. But you knew? What ever old ex and a friend, you knew………….

        • Friend of Sky and Mas

          Well not that I don’t agree with you, but let’s stick to the facts. He did slash Norma and Jim’s throats, but Kristine and Sky were strangled. That came directly from the father of one of the victims. Sky was hit with a tazer and strangled and Kristine was strangled. That explains how Mas was not covered in blood for the conspiracy theorists. Also, I can understand you wanting NOT to hear the “opinions” of other people, but they are just that. Opinions. Everyone is in pain, lashing out at others who are also in pain doesn’t help anyone.

  • Obviously there is much much more to the story. One doesn’t need to go the this
    extreme to obtain some cannibis.

    • “some cannabis” ? How about hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of “some cannabis”?

      • You wouldn’t be able to fit hundreds of thousands in pot in a Subaru. And you wouldn’t be able to grow that much in a normal-sized house. You need fields and unoccupied houses for that kind of production.

        • RT,
          This is just a comment on the pot question, not on how much Tomas G. had. If you assume indoor pot (which may not be true), a pound of pot could be sold for $3000 depending on its quality and the connections to whom it is being sold. At that rate you would need approximately 65 pounds to make $200,000. A pound of indoor pot is around the size of a basketball. Technically 65 pounds could fit in a Subaru. It would be difficult to hide and unlikely to do. As an aside, I know this is hard for people to grasp but 66 pounds is not extraordinary for even a house sized indoor operation to make over the course of several runs (a new crop can be grown approximately every 3 months). A pound per light is pretty low standard anymore, I’ve been told. Aprox 3′ sq. space per plant. A 100 sq. ft. building could do that in 6 months. I’m not an expert. And I’m sure I’ve made many mistakes but this could theoretically be possible. Please understand that I’m just talking theory not working off of any knowledge about this specific case.

  • Obviously there is much much more to the story. One doesn’t need to go the this
    extreme to obtain some cannibis.

    • “some cannabis” ? How about hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of “some cannabis”?

      • You wouldn’t be able to fit hundreds of thousands in pot in a Subaru. And you wouldn’t be able to grow that much in a normal-sized house. You need fields and unoccupied houses for that kind of production.

        • RT,
          This is just a comment on the pot question, not on how much Tomas G. had. If you assume indoor pot (which may not be true), a pound of pot could be sold for $3000 depending on its quality and the connections to whom it is being sold. At that rate you would need approximately 65 pounds to make $200,000. A pound of indoor pot is around the size of a basketball. Technically 65 pounds could fit in a Subaru. It would be difficult to hide and unlikely to do. As an aside, I know this is hard for people to grasp but 66 pounds is not extraordinary for even a house sized indoor operation to make over the course of several runs (a new crop can be grown approximately every 3 months). A pound per light is pretty low standard anymore, I’ve been told. Aprox 3′ sq. space per plant. A 100 sq. ft. building could do that in 6 months. I’m not an expert. And I’m sure I’ve made many mistakes but this could theoretically be possible. Please understand that I’m just talking theory not working off of any knowledge about this specific case.

  • Please forgive me for asking these questions but I feel I have to just to get this right in my mind….
    Does anybody know the Gunds? (The people who were the (“first responders”)
    The paper says that the first 911 call came in from a cell phone and it was a female voice. The sheriff then called the Gunds at their home to go Sky’s and check. But both of the Gund’s vehicles were at the scene. Would they not just have jumped in the car together?
    And Norma Gund was pretty cut up but Jim Gund, not. Is it possible that they wanted Sky and Christina off the hill and framed ‘Mas to cover their own duplicity?
    There was reportedly money and product at the scene and in ‘Mas’s car. Could he have been there on business and came upon Sky and Christina already dead and then fled for his life when he spotted Jim Gund? Could Jim have slashed Norma and wounded himself to create an alibi and further frame ‘Mas? Perhaps far fetched, I know, but I’m asking because nobody in Corvallis that knows ‘Mas can believe that he was remotely capable of doing anything like this.
    I’m also just ruined as I, too, knew and loved Sky.

    • It is strange that someone so effectively killed two people, but then so ineffectively attacked Jim and Norma that they were able to drive around afterward.

      • Corvallis Local

        That is very strange indeed – Tomas is a large man, I don’t know about his athletic level, but he is obviously kinesthetically gifted if you’ve seen him do fire dancing. It takes a lot of coordination. Gund was 59 years old, not exactly what you would consider a man’s prime, and was allegedly able to “disarm” Tomas and flee without incident. Now this is really wild and it strikes me that nobody in the discussion has brought up this point, because in my mind it grabs my attention in a big way.
        1.) among martial artists, police, and in the military it is well known that it is extremely dangerous to attempt to disarm a knife wielding enemy, preventing a weapon from being drawn is a different matter, but statistically speaking even a very skilled practitioner of military hand to hand is likely to be critically wounded fighting a man with a knife while unarmed.
        2.)A physical confrontation with a larger, younger man who has a knife while unarmed is definitely a life or death situation at the extreme far end of psychological intensity and stress – if Gund was able to get the knife from Mas, wouldn’t he have used the knife in his defense? Why was Mas not wounded in Gund’s self defense if he was physically adept enough to disarm Mas in the first place?
        3.)Assuming that the original 911 call was made because the victims felt their physical safety to be in danger, why would the dispatch fail to relay this seriousness to the Gunds who approached unarmed. It seems that in a rural area where the police are over an hour away that gun ownership among locals would be common for personal safety. Again, it seems that the Gunds would have been aware of the degree of alleged danger from the 911 dispatch.
        Not drawing any conclusions, but things generally make a lot more sense than this story does so far. Let me know if I am missing anything, here. Thanks. My prayers to the families.

        • Corvallis Local

          Update on that – the Gunds were not instructed to approach the residence and 911 was not aware of the level of danger because they were responding to a suspicious hangup. But this still leaves points 1 & 2 from my previous post.
          Also, the manner in which the killings were performed is very strange, it speaks of premeditation, and careful planning if not previous or even professional experience. On one hand, this seems very unlikely for a person who spends most of his time on things like firedancing, music, and knitting, etc. But on the other hand, this conflicts with the argument that drugs could have produced personality alterations to account for the out-of-character behavior that has shocked so many Tomas’ friends. It indicates a very calculated and precise mindset, not a “heat of the moment” type of frenzy.
          This would mean that, if Tomas is indeed the killer, that rather than a panicked situation on drugs leading to something that was never intended, it would indicate a “hidden dark side” type scenario wherein Tomas led some kind of hidden double life. Someone does not just do something like this out of the blue, they would have to be comfortable with it to some degree to perform the act in the manner that it was, indicating that the perpetrator had extensive experience with this type of behavior.
          Does anyone have any account of anything about Tomas that would indicate that this might be the case?
          The reason why I feel this is unlikely is that from the accounts of friends it seems that Tomas lived a lifestyle where he spent a far above normal amount of time in the company of others accounted for in social situations. It would be very difficult to lead a sinister double life and live this lifestyle for the same person. Antisocial acts of violence would seem to correspond to antisocial behavior in one’s lifestyle, except in the case of the sociopath, but sociopaths almost always lack rich, rewarding, long term social relationships, which Tomas had in abundance.

          I am not making any accusations or proposing an alternative storyline, I am simply trying to approach some of the points of this that I haven’t seen addressed so far, story with rational inquiry. And I think that this is important to do when emotions are running high.
          Again, my prayers to the families and friends of the deceased.

          • Corvallis Local

            Point # 2 from my first post – apparently Jim Gund did wound Tomas to some extent during the exchange.
            The points in my second post, however, I feel are very important.

          • That is very illuminating, thank you. People who work with horses do have an uncommon level of grit. Just asking questions that I hadn’t seen elsewhere, please allow me to apologize for the behavior of other Corvallis residents. This case is turning out to be somewhat more clear cut than it first appeared. The big questions now, if anyone will permit me to move past the question of if the actual event happened or not (because I feel that has been established fairly well, as startling as it is), are as to what the motives were? Murder is an act that carries serious repercussions, I wonder if there is any evidence as to what would have been equal to that cost in the mind of Tomas?

        • I’m not sure if you read this post. It has more information that might help answer at least the last question.

        • Jim wears these big rubberized gloves. They make his hands look much bigger than they actually are. He snatched the knife by the blade from Tomas. He had cuts on the fingers of his gloves but not through to the skin. It was a lucky grab and god just may have had a hand in that one too. The gloves are part of the investigation and were taken.
          Jim is also a very fit 59. He works with his horses all the time and is a hearty, healthy, 59 year old man.
          Jim said even though he had the knife he felt at a disadvantage.
          He felt like Tomas was baiting him and said something like, why don’t you just kill me now? Jim said he told him not too worry that people were coming for him and he ran as fast as he could back to his house where he grabbed a gun, dropped the knife, and met us at the end of his driveway in the second Gund vehicle.

          I am really not seeing what all the confusion is about. Look at all of the evidence. What doesn’t make sense to you other than you just can’t believe it?

          • I think this is just another case of “I’ll see it when I believe it” rather than the other way around.

            I think it’s understandable, given that some of these commenters knew the suspect and are having a hard time believing that he could have been capable of such a thing — and without them knowing it. Meanwhile, they don’t know the Gunds at all, and so far, most of what we know hinges on the statements of the Gunds. So naturally, some of these folks are suspicious of the Gunds’ account and anxious to see if it holds up to scrutiny.

            But hopefully as more of the physical evidence and other results of the investigation come in, everyone will be able to accept what is learned from looking at the whole picture.

            I do wish that, in the meantime, people would refrain from painting scenarios that assume some kind of elaborate conspiracy and cover-up. There is no evidence of anything like that, just some unanswered questions and details to be filled in, which is completely normal at this stage of the investigation.

          • Jim wears those gloves as he has always because having worked with his hands in the freezing winter weather for over 20 years his hands hurt. he does not like to be cold. its really simple folks. stop making up stories let people do their jobs and end this case so everyone can get on with their lives. and when it is all over you people can then deal with the fact that one of your own has done wrong and then you can put your foot in your mouth.

        • Mas was a mediocre fire dancer. You make it sound like he was gifted or something, but as someone who has met and spun with M, he was not that good.

      • Friend of Sky and Mas

        Not really that strange when you are considering the fact that Sky and Kristine were both much smaller than Mas… and from what I have heard about Jim he was probably a much closer match in size… and worked with animals at least 5 times his size.

    • ” far fetched, I know”

      That’s quite an understatement.

      Keep in mind what you’re doing here is creating a scenario out of thin air, one for which there is zero evidence, and one that is slanderous toward two people who, by all accounts, were just trying to help their neighbors.

    • Ok first off, I do understand how hard it is for you to believe your friend was capable of this. I do. I am trying to imagined my most peaceful loving friend and how I would react if accused of such a thing. HOWEVER implying that two other people, that their community has claimed to be wonderful people is very disrespectful considering they are hurt very badly. It seems that people are trying to dream up ANY scenerio to explain away Tomas’ involvement. No one really has mentioned tha the toxicology reports may have some answers to out of character behavior. At this point no one knows what happened, and sadly since all parties involved before the other couple arrived are dead we may never know for sure. I am sure cell phone records and text messages and all that stuff will be looked in to . DNA evidence all that stuff. Everyone needs to simmer down as hard as that is and wait for the information to come out.

    • the Gunds are some awesome local folk & i would say that is why the police called them in the first place. they were the best chance for kris & her bf to be found alive…

      its ridiculous to even ask those questions honestly.
      i am sorry it is so hard to believe your friend did this but you don’t always know who people really are.

    • I know the Gunds well. I’ve been with them in the hospital every day since this happened. I’ve known them for 17 years. People are writing the most strange and outlandish things–I can’t even believe what I am reading. I’m beginning to understand why people might just stand back and watch instead of rush in to help people. Why try to help and then be accused of being the criminals? Please be respectful of amazing, brave people, who had their Sunday afternoon blown apart by a madman, and will live with the literal and figurative scars for the rest of their lives. Oh, and by the way, Norma didn’t say the man was short–she said he had short HAIR. It’s kind of hard to communicate when your throat is slashed.

      • Thank you for stepping forward and explaining very clearly an element that had people confused. Please pass along to the Gund’s that most of us think of them as the kind of neighbors that we’d like to live next to–good people that rush over if they think you might need help.

      • I would like to thank the Gunds for helping their neighbors even though things went very wrong in so many ways. I don’t personally know them, but they are the type of people that we would hope we could each be for one another. It is a strange time that we come to be suspect of a couple who put their own lives on the line for their neighbors. I believe that they have more than likely been tested in this tragedy, but deep down, they must know they did what was right for their neighbors. I send my wishes to them for recovery and hope that they have friends that are helping them at their homestead and moral support.

  • Please forgive me for asking these questions but I feel I have to just to get this right in my mind….
    Does anybody know the Gunds? (The people who were the (“first responders”)
    The paper says that the first 911 call came in from a cell phone and it was a female voice. The sheriff then called the Gunds at their home to go Sky’s and check. But both of the Gund’s vehicles were at the scene. Would they not just have jumped in the car together?
    And Norma Gund was pretty cut up but Jim Gund, not. Is it possible that they wanted Sky and Christina off the hill and framed ‘Mas to cover their own duplicity?
    There was reportedly money and product at the scene and in ‘Mas’s car. Could he have been there on business and came upon Sky and Christina already dead and then fled for his life when he spotted Jim Gund? Could Jim have slashed Norma and wounded himself to create an alibi and further frame ‘Mas? Perhaps far fetched, I know, but I’m asking because nobody in Corvallis that knows ‘Mas can believe that he was remotely capable of doing anything like this.
    I’m also just ruined as I, too, knew and loved Sky.

    • It is strange that someone so effectively killed two people, but then so ineffectively attacked Jim and Norma that they were able to drive around afterward.

      • Corvallis Local

        That is very strange indeed – Tomas is a large man, I don’t know about his athletic level, but he is obviously kinesthetically gifted if you’ve seen him do fire dancing. It takes a lot of coordination. Gund was 59 years old, not exactly what you would consider a man’s prime, and was allegedly able to “disarm” Tomas and flee without incident. Now this is really wild and it strikes me that nobody in the discussion has brought up this point, because in my mind it grabs my attention in a big way.
        1.) among martial artists, police, and in the military it is well known that it is extremely dangerous to attempt to disarm a knife wielding enemy, preventing a weapon from being drawn is a different matter, but statistically speaking even a very skilled practitioner of military hand to hand is likely to be critically wounded fighting a man with a knife while unarmed.
        2.)A physical confrontation with a larger, younger man who has a knife while unarmed is definitely a life or death situation at the extreme far end of psychological intensity and stress – if Gund was able to get the knife from Mas, wouldn’t he have used the knife in his defense? Why was Mas not wounded in Gund’s self defense if he was physically adept enough to disarm Mas in the first place?
        3.)Assuming that the original 911 call was made because the victims felt their physical safety to be in danger, why would the dispatch fail to relay this seriousness to the Gunds who approached unarmed. It seems that in a rural area where the police are over an hour away that gun ownership among locals would be common for personal safety. Again, it seems that the Gunds would have been aware of the degree of alleged danger from the 911 dispatch.
        Not drawing any conclusions, but things generally make a lot more sense than this story does so far. Let me know if I am missing anything, here. Thanks. My prayers to the families.

        • Corvallis Local

          Update on that – the Gunds were not instructed to approach the residence and 911 was not aware of the level of danger because they were responding to a suspicious hangup. But this still leaves points 1 & 2 from my previous post.
          Also, the manner in which the killings were performed is very strange, it speaks of premeditation, and careful planning if not previous or even professional experience. On one hand, this seems very unlikely for a person who spends most of his time on things like firedancing, music, and knitting, etc. But on the other hand, this conflicts with the argument that drugs could have produced personality alterations to account for the out-of-character behavior that has shocked so many Tomas’ friends. It indicates a very calculated and precise mindset, not a “heat of the moment” type of frenzy.
          This would mean that, if Tomas is indeed the killer, that rather than a panicked situation on drugs leading to something that was never intended, it would indicate a “hidden dark side” type scenario wherein Tomas led some kind of hidden double life. Someone does not just do something like this out of the blue, they would have to be comfortable with it to some degree to perform the act in the manner that it was, indicating that the perpetrator had extensive experience with this type of behavior.
          Does anyone have any account of anything about Tomas that would indicate that this might be the case?
          The reason why I feel this is unlikely is that from the accounts of friends it seems that Tomas lived a lifestyle where he spent a far above normal amount of time in the company of others accounted for in social situations. It would be very difficult to lead a sinister double life and live this lifestyle for the same person. Antisocial acts of violence would seem to correspond to antisocial behavior in one’s lifestyle, except in the case of the sociopath, but sociopaths almost always lack rich, rewarding, long term social relationships, which Tomas had in abundance.

          I am not making any accusations or proposing an alternative storyline, I am simply trying to approach some of the points of this that I haven’t seen addressed so far, story with rational inquiry. And I think that this is important to do when emotions are running high.
          Again, my prayers to the families and friends of the deceased.

          • Corvallis Local

            Point # 2 from my first post – apparently Jim Gund did wound Tomas to some extent during the exchange.
            The points in my second post, however, I feel are very important.

          • That is very illuminating, thank you. People who work with horses do have an uncommon level of grit. Just asking questions that I hadn’t seen elsewhere, please allow me to apologize for the behavior of other Corvallis residents. This case is turning out to be somewhat more clear cut than it first appeared. The big questions now, if anyone will permit me to move past the question of if the actual event happened or not (because I feel that has been established fairly well, as startling as it is), are as to what the motives were? Murder is an act that carries serious repercussions, I wonder if there is any evidence as to what would have been equal to that cost in the mind of Tomas?

        • I’m not sure if you read this post. It has more information that might help answer at least the last question.

        • Jim wears these big rubberized gloves. They make his hands look much bigger than they actually are. He snatched the knife by the blade from Tomas. He had cuts on the fingers of his gloves but not through to the skin. It was a lucky grab and god just may have had a hand in that one too. The gloves are part of the investigation and were taken.
          Jim is also a very fit 59. He works with his horses all the time and is a hearty, healthy, 59 year old man.
          Jim said even though he had the knife he felt at a disadvantage.
          He felt like Tomas was baiting him and said something like, why don’t you just kill me now? Jim said he told him not too worry that people were coming for him and he ran as fast as he could back to his house where he grabbed a gun, dropped the knife, and met us at the end of his driveway in the second Gund vehicle.

          I am really not seeing what all the confusion is about. Look at all of the evidence. What doesn’t make sense to you other than you just can’t believe it?

          • I think this is just another case of “I’ll see it when I believe it” rather than the other way around.

            I think it’s understandable, given that some of these commenters knew the suspect and are having a hard time believing that he could have been capable of such a thing — and without them knowing it. Meanwhile, they don’t know the Gunds at all, and so far, most of what we know hinges on the statements of the Gunds. So naturally, some of these folks are suspicious of the Gunds’ account and anxious to see if it holds up to scrutiny.

            But hopefully as more of the physical evidence and other results of the investigation come in, everyone will be able to accept what is learned from looking at the whole picture.

            I do wish that, in the meantime, people would refrain from painting scenarios that assume some kind of elaborate conspiracy and cover-up. There is no evidence of anything like that, just some unanswered questions and details to be filled in, which is completely normal at this stage of the investigation.

          • Jim wears those gloves as he has always because having worked with his hands in the freezing winter weather for over 20 years his hands hurt. he does not like to be cold. its really simple folks. stop making up stories let people do their jobs and end this case so everyone can get on with their lives. and when it is all over you people can then deal with the fact that one of your own has done wrong and then you can put your foot in your mouth.

        • Mas was a mediocre fire dancer. You make it sound like he was gifted or something, but as someone who has met and spun with M, he was not that good.

      • Friend of Sky and Mas

        Not really that strange when you are considering the fact that Sky and Kristine were both much smaller than Mas… and from what I have heard about Jim he was probably a much closer match in size… and worked with animals at least 5 times his size.

    • ” far fetched, I know”

      That’s quite an understatement.

      Keep in mind what you’re doing here is creating a scenario out of thin air, one for which there is zero evidence, and one that is slanderous toward two people who, by all accounts, were just trying to help their neighbors.

    • Ok first off, I do understand how hard it is for you to believe your friend was capable of this. I do. I am trying to imagined my most peaceful loving friend and how I would react if accused of such a thing. HOWEVER implying that two other people, that their community has claimed to be wonderful people is very disrespectful considering they are hurt very badly. It seems that people are trying to dream up ANY scenerio to explain away Tomas’ involvement. No one really has mentioned tha the toxicology reports may have some answers to out of character behavior. At this point no one knows what happened, and sadly since all parties involved before the other couple arrived are dead we may never know for sure. I am sure cell phone records and text messages and all that stuff will be looked in to . DNA evidence all that stuff. Everyone needs to simmer down as hard as that is and wait for the information to come out.

    • the Gunds are some awesome local folk & i would say that is why the police called them in the first place. they were the best chance for kris & her bf to be found alive…

      its ridiculous to even ask those questions honestly.
      i am sorry it is so hard to believe your friend did this but you don’t always know who people really are.

    • I know the Gunds well. I’ve been with them in the hospital every day since this happened. I’ve known them for 17 years. People are writing the most strange and outlandish things–I can’t even believe what I am reading. I’m beginning to understand why people might just stand back and watch instead of rush in to help people. Why try to help and then be accused of being the criminals? Please be respectful of amazing, brave people, who had their Sunday afternoon blown apart by a madman, and will live with the literal and figurative scars for the rest of their lives. Oh, and by the way, Norma didn’t say the man was short–she said he had short HAIR. It’s kind of hard to communicate when your throat is slashed.

      • Thank you for stepping forward and explaining very clearly an element that had people confused. Please pass along to the Gund’s that most of us think of them as the kind of neighbors that we’d like to live next to–good people that rush over if they think you might need help.

      • I would like to thank the Gunds for helping their neighbors even though things went very wrong in so many ways. I don’t personally know them, but they are the type of people that we would hope we could each be for one another. It is a strange time that we come to be suspect of a couple who put their own lives on the line for their neighbors. I believe that they have more than likely been tested in this tragedy, but deep down, they must know they did what was right for their neighbors. I send my wishes to them for recovery and hope that they have friends that are helping them at their homestead and moral support.

  • ….Especially after Jim had been stunned “20 times”according to his daughter’s report…. it just doesn’t add up.

    • Kettenpom Store

      It has been speculated that if you use a stun gun too many times too close together it may compromise the amount of shock it puts out. Possibly explaining why it wasn’t as effective by the time it got to Jim. Can anyone confirm or deny that. Maybe google?

      Jim is a horse trainer and has worked with my wife training both her and her horse. He does it because he loves it and rarely asks for a dime. He is retired from the county road department and is a well known and loved member of our small community.
      He competes in some sort of cross country agility course competitions with his horse and is well known and very competitive.

      His wife Norma is our local school bus driver. She is loved and missed by her kids who have had to have a new bus driver since this happened. I hear some of the older kids have caught wind of all of this and parents have been trying to be careful about what the younger kids hear.

      Jim left evidence on Tomas body too. Enough to be able to positively identify him even without a picture from what I understand. I don’t know how bad the car accident messed him up or if it did at all but even if he was, the evidence that was described to me would still be there. I am quite sure all of that came into play in identifying Tomas as the murderer/attacker and will all come out in the end.

      The Constantino property is owned by a man named Patrick from Garberville.
      People do need to simmer down and wait for the details, some of the theories have gotten way out of hand.

      Can anyone confirm if Tomas was trained in the martial arts? I have heard some rumors about that but maybe some of you may know for sure.

      • Friend of Sky and Mas

        Well I have no idea if he was trained in marital arts or not but he was a fire dancer. He spun staffs with the ends lit on fire at high speeds, one or two at a time. Which is very similar to what you would see in martial arts movies. And he also spun fire poi, which are basically big kevlar balls on the ends of chains that are lit on fire. And he was quite agile at both I may add. So while these are not considered “martial” arts technically speaking, they are very closely linked and use many of the same techniques.

    • Actually, it does.

  • ….Especially after Jim had been stunned “20 times”according to his daughter’s report…. it just doesn’t add up.

    • Kettenpom Store

      It has been speculated that if you use a stun gun too many times too close together it may compromise the amount of shock it puts out. Possibly explaining why it wasn’t as effective by the time it got to Jim. Can anyone confirm or deny that. Maybe google?

      Jim is a horse trainer and has worked with my wife training both her and her horse. He does it because he loves it and rarely asks for a dime. He is retired from the county road department and is a well known and loved member of our small community.
      He competes in some sort of cross country agility course competitions with his horse and is well known and very competitive.

      His wife Norma is our local school bus driver. She is loved and missed by her kids who have had to have a new bus driver since this happened. I hear some of the older kids have caught wind of all of this and parents have been trying to be careful about what the younger kids hear.

      Jim left evidence on Tomas body too. Enough to be able to positively identify him even without a picture from what I understand. I don’t know how bad the car accident messed him up or if it did at all but even if he was, the evidence that was described to me would still be there. I am quite sure all of that came into play in identifying Tomas as the murderer/attacker and will all come out in the end.

      The Constantino property is owned by a man named Patrick from Garberville.
      People do need to simmer down and wait for the details, some of the theories have gotten way out of hand.

      Can anyone confirm if Tomas was trained in the martial arts? I have heard some rumors about that but maybe some of you may know for sure.

      • Friend of Sky and Mas

        Well I have no idea if he was trained in marital arts or not but he was a fire dancer. He spun staffs with the ends lit on fire at high speeds, one or two at a time. Which is very similar to what you would see in martial arts movies. And he also spun fire poi, which are basically big kevlar balls on the ends of chains that are lit on fire. And he was quite agile at both I may add. So while these are not considered “martial” arts technically speaking, they are very closely linked and use many of the same techniques.

    • Actually, it does.

  • OK, and this is perhaps really a stretch, but doesn’t throat slitting seem like sort of an “advanced” sort of murder? Unless I’m missing something, (like he trained to be a Green Beret at one point, which I doubt,) from all accounts, ‘Mas was a very peace-loving man, not someone who had “experience” with too much violence. So if murder was new to you, would you choose that technique or just, for example, stab your victim? I don’t know. When I heard that their throats were cut and they were tased, I was thinking that It soundded much more like someone with experience at this sort of thing did this work.

    • none of this adds up at all. are Tasers registered like guns? I have no clue. Maybe that will lead to some answeres as well. But lets just pretend that your scenerio is right. Why would Mas know to run from the cops? If he was being attacked why not run to the cops? Yes he had pot…but really? Most people know that running from the cops never leads to something positive and just more time in jail…if it was just for pot this makes no sense he would run like that. If it was for something worse like killing two people then his inability to reason at the time and run would add up.

  • OK, and this is perhaps really a stretch, but doesn’t throat slitting seem like sort of an “advanced” sort of murder? Unless I’m missing something, (like he trained to be a Green Beret at one point, which I doubt,) from all accounts, ‘Mas was a very peace-loving man, not someone who had “experience” with too much violence. So if murder was new to you, would you choose that technique or just, for example, stab your victim? I don’t know. When I heard that their throats were cut and they were tased, I was thinking that It soundded much more like someone with experience at this sort of thing did this work.

    • none of this adds up at all. are Tasers registered like guns? I have no clue. Maybe that will lead to some answeres as well. But lets just pretend that your scenerio is right. Why would Mas know to run from the cops? If he was being attacked why not run to the cops? Yes he had pot…but really? Most people know that running from the cops never leads to something positive and just more time in jail…if it was just for pot this makes no sense he would run like that. If it was for something worse like killing two people then his inability to reason at the time and run would add up.

  • S, both of the Gund’s vehicles were not at the attack scene. According to Jim Gund’s daughter, they drove there in one vehicle which Mrs. Gund used to escape. Then Jim Gund ran home and got another vehicle.

    It seems unlikely that the theory you proposed about Mrs. Gund and Mr Gund being injured to mask their framing of Mas could be true. First, they are known as good people in the neighborhood. Second, Mrs Gund’s windpipe was cut through; she had to be helicoptered to the city for surgery and people have talked with her and she did not indicate anyone else to blame. It stretches my imagination to imagine protecting someone who had just cut her throat.

    • Not trying to be rude or snarky, but your comment isn’t fair. From what everyone here is saying Sky was a good person, Kristine was a good person, Tomas was a good person…what makes the Gunds being a good person more believable than Tomas? I’m just saying, it’s an unfair and illogical comment…they were “known as good people in the neighborhood” Tomas was known as a good person all over the country. This whole situation is just crazy.

      • I trust objective investigators over the suspect’s biased friends any day.

        • I trust out of town comments and investigators over northern California police or residents.

          Sorry, but that area stinks worse than a poopy diaper of dirty police and communities centered around a drug culture.

          • Where do you live?

            • I am from the safest small community in the USA.

              I will believe the Community/Law Enforcement when the suspect is proven guilty through DNA evidence, which should have been present underneath the victims fingernails and would indicate who they struggled against. (if it isn’t Mas wonder if it’s one of the Gunds or even more scary a unknown third party)

              The Gunds have too fishy of a story for me to trust them or the Law Enforcement or the Community.

              Why would Jim let Norma enter the house with someone who MUST look suspicious after slitting two people’s throats? (that would be a messy endeavor)

              Why would Jim have thick rubber gloves on? That sounds very suspicious, pre-meditated criminals wear gloves.

              How would Jim be able to overpower someone who is 27 years younger than him and likely much larger, and armed?

              Why would Tomas take some money but not ALL of the money?

              I find it hard to believe that this happened as the many everchanging stories say, it sounds like there was some story coaching at the Kettenpom Store.

              Like I said before and I’ll say again, I will believe that the murderer is dead when they show conclusive DNA evidence that indicates there was a struggle between the Suspect and the dead victims.

              Until then this firmly confirms my suspicion that this area IS a lawless and violent community. (and it’s not just THIS that makes me think this I’ve heard it from numerous first person accounts)

              • Sean, I’m going to take the liberty of answering your questions that are troubling you by copying in a comment that tra (aka the reasonable anonymous) made earlier.

                “That’s all understandable, and I sympathize with your point of view.

                But please be aware that when you are “asking questions” in a way that paints a whole intricate scenario wherein the folks who were asked to check in on their neighbors after a 911 call are, in your scenario, somehow responsible for both the murders and their own injuries, with the husband supposedly nearly killing his own wife by slashing her throat to cover up “their” crime…well that kind of “question” is really a bit much. It really does come across as more of a veiled accusation rather than just an innocent question.

                This is a little bit like the classic “how long have you been beating your wife” question that politicians fear, because if you deny it you’re giving credence to it by taking it seriously, but if you don’t deny it, that can be taken as an admission of guilt.

                At this point I have not seem ANY evidence that would suggest that the accounts given by the Gunds, the sheriffs, and the folks at the Kettenpom store are inaccurate. Unless some kind of evidence turns up that suggests that those accounts are inaccurate in important ways, I really do think people should refrain from speculative scenarios that assume otherwise.”

                • Actually I like to speculate online, as do some of your other readers.

                  Adding to the stories around these crimes, gives a lot more fodder for the LE agencies who are reading these blogs.

                  The archives make interesting reading vis a vis your local mindset regarding the business end of MJ. Don’t assume that all of us in Cornvalley are intimately involved in a business that supports your local economy.

              • I don’t want to speculate on why various scenarios happened. Because I don’t know the answers. I’m probably going to regret this but I’m going to just take one of your concerns and speculate a little as an example of what could be a reasonable explanation.

                You ask why would Jim have thick rubber gloves on.

                If we postulate that the story occurred as the police, the storekeeper and Mr. Gund’s daughter have stated, then there was a storm in the area. Mr. Gund decides to go check on a neighbor; he searches for a pair of gloves and finds a pair of big rubberized gloves. He puts them on.

                That seems like a reasonable explanation. I’ve done something similar frequently. Occasionally, I’ve even worn a pair of socks to keep my hands warm when I was in a hurry and couldn’t find my gloves.

              • Friend of Sky and Mas

                As you can see from my “name” on here I was a “friend” to Mas, but I do actually believe that he was capable of doing this. You never know what people are capable of in the darkest recesses of their minds. And most of these questions are just reaching for a string to prove his innocence which I can understand but it’s kind of pointless since the majority of the important questions may never be answered since the involved parties are all deceased. To try and address your questions logically –

                Why would Jim let Norma enter the house with someone who MUST look suspicious after slitting two people’s throats? (that would be a messy endeavor) – Who says it would be messy or that he would look suspicious? If it was really Mas who opened the door why would we expect Norma and Jim to see him any differently than we all saw him when he was in social situations? You know… a gentle giant? All of the details of how the bodies of Kristine and Sky were positioned are not available. For all we know Mas could have been standing behind them which would not have left him as a bloody mess. And if that was not the case and he was a mess at some point, perhaps he put on a jacket or cleaned up before Jim and Norma arrived.

                Why would Jim have thick rubber gloves on? That sounds very suspicious, pre-meditated criminals wear gloves. – As do doctors and surgeons, and ….wait for it…. road workers. From the accounts of the store owner they thought they may have been responding to somethin that happened during the storm. Perhaps he planned to have to move a tree or something. Or perhaps he was out training his horses or moving dung and was already wearing them when they got the call immediately without taking them off. Really no one is going to be able to answer that question besides Mr. Gund.

                How would Jim be able to overpower someone who is 27 years younger than him and likely much larger, and armed? – Have you seen Arnold Schwarzenegger? He will be 64 this year. Now, I’m not saying Mr. Gund was Arnie or anything, I am simply stating that since we do not know him, we cannot think that just because he was older than Mas that he could not have taken him on at a moment when Ms was trying to kill his wife. I mean there have been cases of mothers lifting cars off of their sons in heated moments – its called adrenalin.

                Why would Tomas take some money but not ALL of the money? – I had this thought as well, but perhaps he was interrupted by the Gunds before he could collect everything else that was left there?

                To address the rest of the wild theories out there about a second person having been involved. If there was someone else involved where were they after everyone was gone from the house? Would they not have wanted to take anything of value including the marijuana and cash? Being in that remote of an area would they not have had the time once the “suspected murderer” and the Gunds were gone. The time from when the call went out to the cops from the store and the time they arrived?

                I also want to believe that our friend did not do this, but all the evidence points directly at him. I think it is time to accept, heal, and show our support for those that loved them.

                • Kettenpom Store

                  Thank you for your post.

                  Jim doesn’t go anywhere without those gloves. He works outside all the time and most of the stuff he does requires having gloves on.

                  Also we were talking about Jim and the whole adrenaline thing. Is it also possible because Jim works daily with animals four or five times the size Mas that he was somewhat accustomed to dealing with things much larger than him and quite capable of killing him at any moment? Not that Jim is what I would call a fighter at all but he is very savvy with those horses.
                  I am also quite sure that seeing what he did gave him that burst of adrenaline that you mentioned. Like you said mothers have moved cars off of babies.

                  Great point about the way Jim and Norma perceived Mas. Why would they see him any different than everyone else.

                • Friend of Sky and Mas

                  When I read that Mr. Gund worked with horses I had that exact thought. Anyone who has worked with horses before (which I have) knows that you have to be strong with them. Both physically and mentally. How else are you going to get a 1000 lb. animal to do what you want it to do? In a situation like this I for one would be proud to call the Gunds neighbors! They did what I would hope my neighbors would do for me, and they should be commended for their efforts. They are in my thoughts and I wish them a speedy recovery.

                • Friend Twice Removed

                  I very much appreciate your comments Mr Kettenpom store. I also commend your bravery for going to the residence to assist your friend and neighbor Jim. You could only speculate on what you would be walking into. God bless you and your community in your time or sorrow.

                  Don’t allow these conspiracy theoriest sway you from the truth.

                  Keep posting…I look for your comments!

              • Kettenpom Store

                The safest samll community in the USA is Corvallis Ore.???

                Can someone show me something that supports that claim?

                Here are some safe cities in the USA. This list was made by The Farmers Insurance Group. Using stats and figures not opinion. There are 60 cities named and somehow I missed Corvallis???

                http://albanyca.localspur.com/2010/01/03/where-are-the-safest-places-to-live-in-the-united-states/

                http://www.streetdirectory.com/travel_guide/76587/america_properties/where_are_the_safest_places_to_live_in_the_united_states.html

                I find this sort of strange that I can’t find anything about Corvallis being the safest small community in the USA. Maybe that is your opinion and you are off base?
                Maybe you can show something other than your opinion that says that?
                It would be much more convincing if someone with some credentials shared your opinion.

                • Not that this bears any valid reflection on the original discussion, but Corvallis has indeed been recognized for it’s safety.

                  OSU named “Safest Pac-10 Campus” (University of Southern California study, 1994.)

                  In 2006, the Morgan Quitno Awards ranked Corvallis as the 20th safest city (of 344) in the 13th Annual America’s Safest (and Most Dangerous) Cities publication for metropolitan areas of its size.

                  In a 2007 report, Farmer’s Insurance Group ranked Corvallis as the “most secure” small city in America, based on (as reported by Insurance Journal magazine) crime statistics, extreme weather, risk of natural disasters, environmental hazards, terrorism threats, air quality, life expectancy and job loss numbers.

                • Here you are: http://www.gazettetimes.com/news/local/article_29302ab2-09b1-11e0-b916-001cc4c03286.html

                  The top ranking was lost, which appear to be economically based. top spot held 2007, 2008.

                  I goggled: Corvallis safest small town.

                • Kettenpom Store

                  Thank you.
                  It is not accurate to say the SAFEST small community in the USA. Like it really matters anyway but the original statement was “I live in the safest small community in the USA.” No one can show me where it says that. In fact your town has been slipping down the list.
                  First you couldn’t get police tasers if you were a regular citizen.

                  Then you guys are from THE safest small town in the USA.
                  Then why is it that the first murder in our community in YEARS involves one of YOUR BEST???
                  Like someone else has already said if Mas was one of your best I would hate to see your worst…
                  I know this doesn’t go for everyone on here… But some of you guys seem like you would believe ANYTHING as long as your friend Mas was shown to be innocent.
                  Wild conspiracy theories have been carelessly thrown around, all to make a heartless killer look better???
                  I think you guys really need to step back and look at all of the evidence. Realize that you are being delusional and hurtful to people who have been through allot.

                  If you guys are who you say you are… You have a terrible way of showing it.
                  Imagine for a second that everything is just as we/they say it was. Which I have no doubt…
                  Do you guys see the denial that you are in? What are you all going to say in the end???
                  I would think some formal apologies would be in order.

                • joiningthediscussion

                  I said Was one of our best and if you’ve been following my threads you wouldn’t be singling out that statementwithout a reference to every other thing I’ve said – grief expressed and shock at this unknowingly differencein character -that we had no way of knowing and had never been expressebefore- that’s just really rude to assume that we are fools b/c we thought someone was the goodnesshe expressed- read more closely before you say something so hurtful about the quality of the people of our community – one person will never be able to represent all of us. that was a really sucky thing to say

          • Some of us here have not been fooled by the big influx of profiteering pot growers since passage of Prop. 215. It has led to much addled thinking that they can now grow as much as they want wherever they want. They have been ruining residential neighborhoods in Trinity County. The old timers were quiet, decent neighbors. Thanks to the ilk of “High Times” magazine, greedy profiteers have come from across the U.S. and Canada to grow pot. Big money leads to violence.

  • S, both of the Gund’s vehicles were not at the attack scene. According to Jim Gund’s daughter, they drove there in one vehicle which Mrs. Gund used to escape. Then Jim Gund ran home and got another vehicle.

    It seems unlikely that the theory you proposed about Mrs. Gund and Mr Gund being injured to mask their framing of Mas could be true. First, they are known as good people in the neighborhood. Second, Mrs Gund’s windpipe was cut through; she had to be helicoptered to the city for surgery and people have talked with her and she did not indicate anyone else to blame. It stretches my imagination to imagine protecting someone who had just cut her throat.

    • Not trying to be rude or snarky, but your comment isn’t fair. From what everyone here is saying Sky was a good person, Kristine was a good person, Tomas was a good person…what makes the Gunds being a good person more believable than Tomas? I’m just saying, it’s an unfair and illogical comment…they were “known as good people in the neighborhood” Tomas was known as a good person all over the country. This whole situation is just crazy.

      • I trust objective investigators over the suspect’s biased friends any day.

        • I trust out of town comments and investigators over northern California police or residents.

          Sorry, but that area stinks worse than a poopy diaper of dirty police and communities centered around a drug culture.

          • Where do you live?

            • I am from the safest small community in the USA.

              I will believe the Community/Law Enforcement when the suspect is proven guilty through DNA evidence, which should have been present underneath the victims fingernails and would indicate who they struggled against. (if it isn’t Mas wonder if it’s one of the Gunds or even more scary a unknown third party)

              The Gunds have too fishy of a story for me to trust them or the Law Enforcement or the Community.

              Why would Jim let Norma enter the house with someone who MUST look suspicious after slitting two people’s throats? (that would be a messy endeavor)

              Why would Jim have thick rubber gloves on? That sounds very suspicious, pre-meditated criminals wear gloves.

              How would Jim be able to overpower someone who is 27 years younger than him and likely much larger, and armed?

              Why would Tomas take some money but not ALL of the money?

              I find it hard to believe that this happened as the many everchanging stories say, it sounds like there was some story coaching at the Kettenpom Store.

              Like I said before and I’ll say again, I will believe that the murderer is dead when they show conclusive DNA evidence that indicates there was a struggle between the Suspect and the dead victims.

              Until then this firmly confirms my suspicion that this area IS a lawless and violent community. (and it’s not just THIS that makes me think this I’ve heard it from numerous first person accounts)

              • Sean, I’m going to take the liberty of answering your questions that are troubling you by copying in a comment that tra (aka the reasonable anonymous) made earlier.

                “That’s all understandable, and I sympathize with your point of view.

                But please be aware that when you are “asking questions” in a way that paints a whole intricate scenario wherein the folks who were asked to check in on their neighbors after a 911 call are, in your scenario, somehow responsible for both the murders and their own injuries, with the husband supposedly nearly killing his own wife by slashing her throat to cover up “their” crime…well that kind of “question” is really a bit much. It really does come across as more of a veiled accusation rather than just an innocent question.

                This is a little bit like the classic “how long have you been beating your wife” question that politicians fear, because if you deny it you’re giving credence to it by taking it seriously, but if you don’t deny it, that can be taken as an admission of guilt.

                At this point I have not seem ANY evidence that would suggest that the accounts given by the Gunds, the sheriffs, and the folks at the Kettenpom store are inaccurate. Unless some kind of evidence turns up that suggests that those accounts are inaccurate in important ways, I really do think people should refrain from speculative scenarios that assume otherwise.”

                • Actually I like to speculate online, as do some of your other readers.

                  Adding to the stories around these crimes, gives a lot more fodder for the LE agencies who are reading these blogs.

                  The archives make interesting reading vis a vis your local mindset regarding the business end of MJ. Don’t assume that all of us in Cornvalley are intimately involved in a business that supports your local economy.

              • I don’t want to speculate on why various scenarios happened. Because I don’t know the answers. I’m probably going to regret this but I’m going to just take one of your concerns and speculate a little as an example of what could be a reasonable explanation.

                You ask why would Jim have thick rubber gloves on.

                If we postulate that the story occurred as the police, the storekeeper and Mr. Gund’s daughter have stated, then there was a storm in the area. Mr. Gund decides to go check on a neighbor; he searches for a pair of gloves and finds a pair of big rubberized gloves. He puts them on.

                That seems like a reasonable explanation. I’ve done something similar frequently. Occasionally, I’ve even worn a pair of socks to keep my hands warm when I was in a hurry and couldn’t find my gloves.

              • Friend of Sky and Mas

                As you can see from my “name” on here I was a “friend” to Mas, but I do actually believe that he was capable of doing this. You never know what people are capable of in the darkest recesses of their minds. And most of these questions are just reaching for a string to prove his innocence which I can understand but it’s kind of pointless since the majority of the important questions may never be answered since the involved parties are all deceased. To try and address your questions logically –

                Why would Jim let Norma enter the house with someone who MUST look suspicious after slitting two people’s throats? (that would be a messy endeavor) – Who says it would be messy or that he would look suspicious? If it was really Mas who opened the door why would we expect Norma and Jim to see him any differently than we all saw him when he was in social situations? You know… a gentle giant? All of the details of how the bodies of Kristine and Sky were positioned are not available. For all we know Mas could have been standing behind them which would not have left him as a bloody mess. And if that was not the case and he was a mess at some point, perhaps he put on a jacket or cleaned up before Jim and Norma arrived.

                Why would Jim have thick rubber gloves on? That sounds very suspicious, pre-meditated criminals wear gloves. – As do doctors and surgeons, and ….wait for it…. road workers. From the accounts of the store owner they thought they may have been responding to somethin that happened during the storm. Perhaps he planned to have to move a tree or something. Or perhaps he was out training his horses or moving dung and was already wearing them when they got the call immediately without taking them off. Really no one is going to be able to answer that question besides Mr. Gund.

                How would Jim be able to overpower someone who is 27 years younger than him and likely much larger, and armed? – Have you seen Arnold Schwarzenegger? He will be 64 this year. Now, I’m not saying Mr. Gund was Arnie or anything, I am simply stating that since we do not know him, we cannot think that just because he was older than Mas that he could not have taken him on at a moment when Ms was trying to kill his wife. I mean there have been cases of mothers lifting cars off of their sons in heated moments – its called adrenalin.

                Why would Tomas take some money but not ALL of the money? – I had this thought as well, but perhaps he was interrupted by the Gunds before he could collect everything else that was left there?

                To address the rest of the wild theories out there about a second person having been involved. If there was someone else involved where were they after everyone was gone from the house? Would they not have wanted to take anything of value including the marijuana and cash? Being in that remote of an area would they not have had the time once the “suspected murderer” and the Gunds were gone. The time from when the call went out to the cops from the store and the time they arrived?

                I also want to believe that our friend did not do this, but all the evidence points directly at him. I think it is time to accept, heal, and show our support for those that loved them.

                • Kettenpom Store

                  Thank you for your post.

                  Jim doesn’t go anywhere without those gloves. He works outside all the time and most of the stuff he does requires having gloves on.

                  Also we were talking about Jim and the whole adrenaline thing. Is it also possible because Jim works daily with animals four or five times the size Mas that he was somewhat accustomed to dealing with things much larger than him and quite capable of killing him at any moment? Not that Jim is what I would call a fighter at all but he is very savvy with those horses.
                  I am also quite sure that seeing what he did gave him that burst of adrenaline that you mentioned. Like you said mothers have moved cars off of babies.

                  Great point about the way Jim and Norma perceived Mas. Why would they see him any different than everyone else.

                • Friend of Sky and Mas

                  When I read that Mr. Gund worked with horses I had that exact thought. Anyone who has worked with horses before (which I have) knows that you have to be strong with them. Both physically and mentally. How else are you going to get a 1000 lb. animal to do what you want it to do? In a situation like this I for one would be proud to call the Gunds neighbors! They did what I would hope my neighbors would do for me, and they should be commended for their efforts. They are in my thoughts and I wish them a speedy recovery.

                • Friend Twice Removed

                  I very much appreciate your comments Mr Kettenpom store. I also commend your bravery for going to the residence to assist your friend and neighbor Jim. You could only speculate on what you would be walking into. God bless you and your community in your time or sorrow.

                  Don’t allow these conspiracy theoriest sway you from the truth.

                  Keep posting…I look for your comments!

              • Kettenpom Store

                The safest samll community in the USA is Corvallis Ore.???

                Can someone show me something that supports that claim?

                Here are some safe cities in the USA. This list was made by The Farmers Insurance Group. Using stats and figures not opinion. There are 60 cities named and somehow I missed Corvallis???

                http://albanyca.localspur.com/2010/01/03/where-are-the-safest-places-to-live-in-the-united-states/

                http://www.streetdirectory.com/travel_guide/76587/america_properties/where_are_the_safest_places_to_live_in_the_united_states.html

                I find this sort of strange that I can’t find anything about Corvallis being the safest small community in the USA. Maybe that is your opinion and you are off base?
                Maybe you can show something other than your opinion that says that?
                It would be much more convincing if someone with some credentials shared your opinion.

                • Not that this bears any valid reflection on the original discussion, but Corvallis has indeed been recognized for it’s safety.

                  OSU named “Safest Pac-10 Campus” (University of Southern California study, 1994.)

                  In 2006, the Morgan Quitno Awards ranked Corvallis as the 20th safest city (of 344) in the 13th Annual America’s Safest (and Most Dangerous) Cities publication for metropolitan areas of its size.

                  In a 2007 report, Farmer’s Insurance Group ranked Corvallis as the “most secure” small city in America, based on (as reported by Insurance Journal magazine) crime statistics, extreme weather, risk of natural disasters, environmental hazards, terrorism threats, air quality, life expectancy and job loss numbers.

                • Here you are: http://www.gazettetimes.com/news/local/article_29302ab2-09b1-11e0-b916-001cc4c03286.html

                  The top ranking was lost, which appear to be economically based. top spot held 2007, 2008.

                  I goggled: Corvallis safest small town.

                • Kettenpom Store

                  Thank you.
                  It is not accurate to say the SAFEST small community in the USA. Like it really matters anyway but the original statement was “I live in the safest small community in the USA.” No one can show me where it says that. In fact your town has been slipping down the list.
                  First you couldn’t get police tasers if you were a regular citizen.

                  Then you guys are from THE safest small town in the USA.
                  Then why is it that the first murder in our community in YEARS involves one of YOUR BEST???
                  Like someone else has already said if Mas was one of your best I would hate to see your worst…
                  I know this doesn’t go for everyone on here… But some of you guys seem like you would believe ANYTHING as long as your friend Mas was shown to be innocent.
                  Wild conspiracy theories have been carelessly thrown around, all to make a heartless killer look better???
                  I think you guys really need to step back and look at all of the evidence. Realize that you are being delusional and hurtful to people who have been through allot.

                  If you guys are who you say you are… You have a terrible way of showing it.
                  Imagine for a second that everything is just as we/they say it was. Which I have no doubt…
                  Do you guys see the denial that you are in? What are you all going to say in the end???
                  I would think some formal apologies would be in order.

                • joiningthediscussion

                  I said Was one of our best and if you’ve been following my threads you wouldn’t be singling out that statementwithout a reference to every other thing I’ve said – grief expressed and shock at this unknowingly differencein character -that we had no way of knowing and had never been expressebefore- that’s just really rude to assume that we are fools b/c we thought someone was the goodnesshe expressed- read more closely before you say something so hurtful about the quality of the people of our community – one person will never be able to represent all of us. that was a really sucky thing to say

          • Some of us here have not been fooled by the big influx of profiteering pot growers since passage of Prop. 215. It has led to much addled thinking that they can now grow as much as they want wherever they want. They have been ruining residential neighborhoods in Trinity County. The old timers were quiet, decent neighbors. Thanks to the ilk of “High Times” magazine, greedy profiteers have come from across the U.S. and Canada to grow pot. Big money leads to violence.

  • Kyn, I agree with you, the whole thing stretches my imagination. And believe me, I am not trying to slander anyone- really- but I am just asking questions because I am sad and heartbroken for all of it. I am not trying to stir up anger or cause any harm- I just want want the truth to shine and so far, I don’t feel it.

    • S, hopefully, in the days to come as more evidence comes to light, you’ll find some answers. I can only imagine the pain you are feeling and I am sorry.

      • An old ex and friend of tomas

        I think he witnessed something and was terrified, and that’s why he ran. I don’t have any idea what. Perhaps he was framed. Stranger things have happened.

  • Kyn, I agree with you, the whole thing stretches my imagination. And believe me, I am not trying to slander anyone- really- but I am just asking questions because I am sad and heartbroken for all of it. I am not trying to stir up anger or cause any harm- I just want want the truth to shine and so far, I don’t feel it.

    • S, hopefully, in the days to come as more evidence comes to light, you’ll find some answers. I can only imagine the pain you are feeling and I am sorry.

      • An old ex and friend of tomas

        I think he witnessed something and was terrified, and that’s why he ran. I don’t have any idea what. Perhaps he was framed. Stranger things have happened.

  • I think it only natural that reefer madness has entered in as a motive. Certainly Mas and Skye are good targets of those allegations, backed by a LE press release. No information as to weight, and the packaging issue is spurious. But I would like to hear more about it from LE. I’m wondering about the relationship of the Gunds to Skye and Christina, did they have a legal or illegal garden? Were the Gunds perhaps growers? And if Skye and Christina were already dead who did the search warrant get served to? Is there a landlord that may be able to shed light on this tragedy?

    • In one of the press releases the property was called the Constantino residence. Other people have said the property was owned by Sky. I don’t believe there was a landlord. Though I don’t know that. As to packaging, some growers do use the ubiquitous Reynold’s oven bags but others have distinctive seal a meal or other means of packaging.

      I understand the need to have questions answered but this question about the Gunds feels a lot like an attack on people who, as far as all reports so far have given, were kind folks trying to help Sky and Kristine. They ended up grievously injured for their pains. Their lives will never be the same. Please tread kindly.

  • I think it only natural that reefer madness has entered in as a motive. Certainly Mas and Skye are good targets of those allegations, backed by a LE press release. No information as to weight, and the packaging issue is spurious. But I would like to hear more about it from LE. I’m wondering about the relationship of the Gunds to Skye and Christina, did they have a legal or illegal garden? Were the Gunds perhaps growers? And if Skye and Christina were already dead who did the search warrant get served to? Is there a landlord that may be able to shed light on this tragedy?

    • In one of the press releases the property was called the Constantino residence. Other people have said the property was owned by Sky. I don’t believe there was a landlord. Though I don’t know that. As to packaging, some growers do use the ubiquitous Reynold’s oven bags but others have distinctive seal a meal or other means of packaging.

      I understand the need to have questions answered but this question about the Gunds feels a lot like an attack on people who, as far as all reports so far have given, were kind folks trying to help Sky and Kristine. They ended up grievously injured for their pains. Their lives will never be the same. Please tread kindly.

  • That’s all understandable, and I sympathize with your point of view.

    But please be aware that when you are “asking questions” in a way that paints a whole intricate scenario wherein the folks who were asked to check in on their neighbors after a 911 call are, in your scenario, somehow responsible for both the murders and their own injuries, with the husband supposedly nearly killing his own wife by slashing her throat to cover up “their” crime…well that kind of “question” is really a bit much. It really does come across as more of a veiled accusation rather than just an innocent question.

    This is a little bit like the classic “how long have you been beating your wife” question that politicians fear, because if you deny it you’re giving credence to it by taking it seriously, but if you don’t deny it, that can be taken as an admission of guilt.

    At this point I have not seem ANY evidence that would suggest that the accounts given by the Gunds, the sheriffs, and the folks at the Kettenpom store are inaccurate. Unless some kind of evidence turns up that suggests that those accounts are inaccurate in important ways, I really do think people should refrain from speculative scenarios that assume otherwise.

  • That’s all understandable, and I sympathize with your point of view.

    But please be aware that when you are “asking questions” in a way that paints a whole intricate scenario wherein the folks who were asked to check in on their neighbors after a 911 call are, in your scenario, somehow responsible for both the murders and their own injuries, with the husband supposedly nearly killing his own wife by slashing her throat to cover up “their” crime…well that kind of “question” is really a bit much. It really does come across as more of a veiled accusation rather than just an innocent question.

    This is a little bit like the classic “how long have you been beating your wife” question that politicians fear, because if you deny it you’re giving credence to it by taking it seriously, but if you don’t deny it, that can be taken as an admission of guilt.

    At this point I have not seem ANY evidence that would suggest that the accounts given by the Gunds, the sheriffs, and the folks at the Kettenpom store are inaccurate. Unless some kind of evidence turns up that suggests that those accounts are inaccurate in important ways, I really do think people should refrain from speculative scenarios that assume otherwise.

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  • Pingback: Press Release From Trinity Sheriff’s Dept. Adds Important Information « REDHEADED BLACKBELT

  • There is new information here.

  • There is new information here.

  • An old ex and friend of tomas

    Just stop, and think for a second, who is the last person on Earth you believe capable of doing something like this. Slitting people’s throats. Your mother, your sister, your best friend, whoever it is in YOUR life. Well, that’s Tomas to a lot of people. Honestly, there are a handful of people I know, that if you told me they snapped and did this, I would believe it in a minute. But not him.

    • Your friend Tomas is a murderer. He was not at the wrong time or wrong place. Give me a break. He premeditated to rob and kill them. Why he would have a taser gun?? Just accept it, the evidence is right there. Why he had the cash and marijuana with him in the car? And why he was running from police if he was indeed innocent? He was just greedy and wanted something that was not his, and ended up killing his friends. Such a scumbag! He took two lives and almost kill the Gunds. You absolutely only knew this guy one side or maybe you are hallucinating. Believe on whatever you want to believe, the fact is the fact.

  • An old ex and friend of tomas

    Just stop, and think for a second, who is the last person on Earth you believe capable of doing something like this. Slitting people’s throats. Your mother, your sister, your best friend, whoever it is in YOUR life. Well, that’s Tomas to a lot of people. Honestly, there are a handful of people I know, that if you told me they snapped and did this, I would believe it in a minute. But not him.

    • Your friend Tomas is a murderer. He was not at the wrong time or wrong place. Give me a break. He premeditated to rob and kill them. Why he would have a taser gun?? Just accept it, the evidence is right there. Why he had the cash and marijuana with him in the car? And why he was running from police if he was indeed innocent? He was just greedy and wanted something that was not his, and ended up killing his friends. Such a scumbag! He took two lives and almost kill the Gunds. You absolutely only knew this guy one side or maybe you are hallucinating. Believe on whatever you want to believe, the fact is the fact.

  • Friend of a friend

    This is tragic any way you look at it. There are three losses here, and no one can seem to justify any of them other than, they where dabbling in something that is illigal. For those who know “Mas”, I am truelly sorry for your loss. But please show some compassion for the other lives lost. I know a lot of people who knew him and they all are pointing fingers at Sky and Kristine and even the Gunds who where just trying to be good neighbors.

    We know now that Sky and Kristine did do some illigal things, but that does not make there murder justifiable in any way that I can see. They are victims and from what I have read on posts here and elsewhere people are making the Gunds and them out to be bad guys.

    Should we not all be focused on the fact that this is tragic at any angle it can be seen from instead of victimizing the one that commited the murders?

  • Friend of a friend

    This is tragic any way you look at it. There are three losses here, and no one can seem to justify any of them other than, they where dabbling in something that is illigal. For those who know “Mas”, I am truelly sorry for your loss. But please show some compassion for the other lives lost. I know a lot of people who knew him and they all are pointing fingers at Sky and Kristine and even the Gunds who where just trying to be good neighbors.

    We know now that Sky and Kristine did do some illigal things, but that does not make there murder justifiable in any way that I can see. They are victims and from what I have read on posts here and elsewhere people are making the Gunds and them out to be bad guys.

    Should we not all be focused on the fact that this is tragic at any angle it can be seen from instead of victimizing the one that commited the murders?

  • Someone offered some photos of Kristine Constantino and I have made a memory page of her for those who would like to share memories and photos. You could upload the photos to photobucket and put the link in the comments or you can send them to me. mskymkemp@gmail.com

  • Someone offered some photos of Kristine Constantino and I have made a memory page of her for those who would like to share memories and photos. You could upload the photos to photobucket and put the link in the comments or you can send them to me. mskymkemp@gmail.com

  • Fiance here: Kym, this is so sad. It has torn me up reading these comments. The insensitivity of some people just galls me. As much as you may not want to believe someone you knew and loved did this sort of thing, it does happen but to try and displace the blame on the victims and the neighbors who were trying to help the victims is sickening.

    When I was in high school a guy that I absoutley loved, who was one of the most mild mannered people I knew killed another guy over a $100 pound of pot. It took me a long time to accept that he did this horrible crime. (Ok, so I’m dating myself) Even way back then in the dark ages the illegal aspect of drugs did things to normal people. He was just a kid. 16. During his trial a scant few months later they posted a picture of him in the newspaper…..I didn’t recognize him. His demeanor was totally different. He spent 25 years in jail and it hasn’t been that long ago that he was released it also wasn’t that long before he went back. I thought of contacting him after his release but something deep inside me told me that when he committed that murder he ceased to be the person I knew and loved all through school.

    • Why do you start your post with

      “Fiance Here”

      That sounds odd, who’s fiance? Not Tomas’ as you’ve dated yourself out of that possibility

      • Two people from the same account comment frequently on my blog. When the woman comments, she distinguishes herself from the other by saying Fiance here before she makes her comment.

  • Fiance here: Kym, this is so sad. It has torn me up reading these comments. The insensitivity of some people just galls me. As much as you may not want to believe someone you knew and loved did this sort of thing, it does happen but to try and displace the blame on the victims and the neighbors who were trying to help the victims is sickening.

    When I was in high school a guy that I absoutley loved, who was one of the most mild mannered people I knew killed another guy over a $100 pound of pot. It took me a long time to accept that he did this horrible crime. (Ok, so I’m dating myself) Even way back then in the dark ages the illegal aspect of drugs did things to normal people. He was just a kid. 16. During his trial a scant few months later they posted a picture of him in the newspaper…..I didn’t recognize him. His demeanor was totally different. He spent 25 years in jail and it hasn’t been that long ago that he was released it also wasn’t that long before he went back. I thought of contacting him after his release but something deep inside me told me that when he committed that murder he ceased to be the person I knew and loved all through school.

    • It is really hard to believe badly of someone you’ve known a long time. Especially a loved one. I know I would have a hard time accepting that most people I know did something like this.

    • Why do you start your post with

      “Fiance Here”

      That sounds odd, who’s fiance? Not Tomas’ as you’ve dated yourself out of that possibility

      • Two people from the same account comment frequently on my blog. When the woman comments, she distinguishes herself from the other by saying Fiance here before she makes her comment.

  • one more time i’ll post this: i knew mas, as a friend at first. then after a simple misunderstanding, he decided i was his enemy. despite numerous attempts to reconcile, apologize, make it right he still thought i was out to get him. paranoid people will be nice to those who they think are friends, but treat the rest as enemies. maybe this happened with his friend sky. suddenly he became an enemy and had to be eliminated. the fact he had a tazer with him and chose to cut their throats meant it was premeditated and with clear intent to kill. perhaps mas flipped out and went psychotic, with the help of some psychedelics. or maybe he was under the influence of the black market, and felt he was being ripped off. we may never know. but as one who knew him, yes mas had a very dark side which he kept hidden from those who saw him as a “teddy bear giant”. i saw the dark side, and was horrified at this story – wondering if i might have been his next victim.

    • You are the one person speaking out about another side to him. Thank you for doing it but I wonder why you are alone in this.

    • Friend of Sky and Mas

      Stopthemadness is not alone in their sentiments. I never had good feelings about Mas, but let them go because I felt if he was good enough for Mas’ fiance then that was good enough for me since I love and respect her. There are several others out there that felt the same way as we did about Mas, but they do not want to speak out as they know that many people are reading this and they do not want to get anonymously attacked by the other readers, and they also do not want to hurt the feelings of all of the people directly influenced by this. Namely Mas’ fiance who needs our support at this time and not us saying things that they do not need to hear. They should be allowed time to grieve and mourn not have to hear that their friends felt this way about their loved ones.

  • one more time i’ll post this: i knew mas, as a friend at first. then after a simple misunderstanding, he decided i was his enemy. despite numerous attempts to reconcile, apologize, make it right he still thought i was out to get him. paranoid people will be nice to those who they think are friends, but treat the rest as enemies. maybe this happened with his friend sky. suddenly he became an enemy and had to be eliminated. the fact he had a tazer with him and chose to cut their throats meant it was premeditated and with clear intent to kill. perhaps mas flipped out and went psychotic, with the help of some psychedelics. or maybe he was under the influence of the black market, and felt he was being ripped off. we may never know. but as one who knew him, yes mas had a very dark side which he kept hidden from those who saw him as a “teddy bear giant”. i saw the dark side, and was horrified at this story – wondering if i might have been his next victim.

    • You are the one person speaking out about another side to him. Thank you for doing it but I wonder why you are alone in this.

    • Friend of Sky and Mas

      Stopthemadness is not alone in their sentiments. I never had good feelings about Mas, but let them go because I felt if he was good enough for Mas’ fiance then that was good enough for me since I love and respect her. There are several others out there that felt the same way as we did about Mas, but they do not want to speak out as they know that many people are reading this and they do not want to get anonymously attacked by the other readers, and they also do not want to hurt the feelings of all of the people directly influenced by this. Namely Mas’ fiance who needs our support at this time and not us saying things that they do not need to hear. They should be allowed time to grieve and mourn not have to hear that their friends felt this way about their loved ones.

  • Pingback: The Kettenpom Double Homicide: How to Follow the Unfolding Story « REDHEADED BLACKBELT

  • Pingback: The Kettenpom Double Homicide: How to Follow the Unfolding Story « REDHEADED BLACKBELT

  • joiningthediscussion

    wow. This is such a trajedy and I have deep sadness for all the victims and at the loss of life. Getting offended and telling people to hold the comments seems contrary to this blog. Why not just shut the whole thing down then.. I thought that was the point of it to welcome discussion wether you agree or not. That being said, I’m gonna say. I knew Thomas… but did I and how many of the people singing his praises really knew him. You can think you know someone by hanging out with them on occasions but that doesn’t mean you know them. Like why the heck was he even down there in the first place. I didn’t know that so I’m open to the possiblity that there might have been other things about him I didn’t know as well such as having a dark side and or using some sort of altercating drugs. (honestly I thought he was straight laced as someone had before mentioned. Sometimes though people turn straight laced after horrible experiences being non straight laced because they realize they don’t have good reactions to taking drugs. Such might be the case here. I recently heard he started drinking again so it’s possible he started doing other things too. I’m not really talking about marijuanna here..although it may be a slim possibiltiy – it’s highly unlikely that alone would be enough to cause a personality altercation, in fact alcohol is more indicative of violent behavior than pot is. What’s really indicative of such an extreme personality shift and inducive of out of character violent behavior is PCP or angel dust . Maybe he choose to took it himself OR maybe he bought something on the internet that he thought was something harmless but was PCP OR maybe it was on the Marijuanna (I don’t know the character of the victims either and if we’re going to be objective we must consider it all) OR maybe the marijuanna wasn’t all from the victims operation- maybe they got some outside stuff for exchange and they smoked some and it was laced. It’s all very possible. Maybe Thomas was pissed about getting unsuspectingly laced or maybe he just freaked out after the drug set in and had a predisposition to having a negative reaction. Yes you can do a complete 360 with a simple shift in brain biochemistry – it’s hard to imagine alot of our sanity rests on delicate biochemistry of our brains. I have had the misfortune of experienceing several two faced people in my life who have acted violently but not this violent.. still the edge for one person is always different for another. For one of these people I knew it was attributed to alcohol the other nothing. simply personality . So wether drugs played a part or not – we will see once the toxicology reports come back so I hope you keep us updated. Although I and many knew Thomas to be a good person- I did have some previous conversations with some well respected friends regarding a different side of him. People with more than one personality may not show it to but a few and it may not manifest until the right button is pushed whatever it is.. perhaps in this case it was money or something said. I’m guessing only one of the murders was “intented ” the rest out of fear for what was done and to get rid of the witnesses . I”m having a hard time imagining.. even if you were framed or had a bunch of weed in your vehicle why you would run from the cops- especially for so long. a good forty miles ought to be enough time to calm down if you weren’t guilty and just an innocent bystander. Thomas hit a tree and died.. the two cops could have very much been in the same boat under those dangerous driving conditions so their lives were jeopordized by his actions too. While it’s a stretch for me to believe such a horrible crime was committed by someone whom I thought was such a great person and who other people I Know are great people who think the same- It makes alot more sense that something was wrong with him rather than two dead victims, two neighbors/wounded victims, and some policemen and a made up story. Again .. the DNA evidence should be eye opening and confirm.. until then of course it’s speculation. Did he take Martial Arts? I believe Aikido which is one of the most non violent forms of MA , but how is that relevant.. Martial Artists don’t learn how to slash throats or tase people- I’d be more apt to ask wether the neighbor who was able to disarm him and escape with his life took martial arts then the suspect. Stabbing or slashing a throat… I don’t see how one signifies more competence or confindence in commiting the crime over the other. It’s probably the best way to go about it if you want someone dead and perhaps he was just smart enough to know that- that is if he did. we should find out enough soon enough. Linking the invitations of the crime to the victims because they had a grow operation seems uneducated . Does anyone know if they were legal-as it is a legal business in this day and age and we will likely see respectable people doing it with it’s increased use as a medicine. As I mentioned before I’ve seen way worse crime and violence surrounding legal alcohol use than I have with marijuana. There’s no way to assure you won’t be on the wrong end of a personality gone out of balance no matter if you are growing flowers for charity or whatever if in fact that’s what happened. My deep condolences to all effected parties as I’m just an outsider. I feel deep sadness for the loss of life and if Thomas is guilty – I feel deep sadness for his soul. While I too am perplexed as to why the husband would allow his wife to go in first to check out the situation (perhaps she knew Christine better and they thought it was more of a medical emergency than a crime) I am impressed by their willingness to help and their perseverence for driving to get help while wounded and holding on for life. When all the chips fall down with the facts and details it will still end the same way- deep sadness and loss. It was a most sad day indeed. horrific and a blow to humanity.

    • Please use paragraphs. No one will read that.

    • I agree..I really wanted to read your whole post but it was a bit overwhelming. Paragraphs are a bit easier to read. BUT I did read a lot of it and thanks for your thoughts.

  • joiningthediscussion

    wow. This is such a trajedy and I have deep sadness for all the victims and at the loss of life. Getting offended and telling people to hold the comments seems contrary to this blog. Why not just shut the whole thing down then.. I thought that was the point of it to welcome discussion wether you agree or not. That being said, I’m gonna say. I knew Thomas… but did I and how many of the people singing his praises really knew him. You can think you know someone by hanging out with them on occasions but that doesn’t mean you know them. Like why the heck was he even down there in the first place. I didn’t know that so I’m open to the possiblity that there might have been other things about him I didn’t know as well such as having a dark side and or using some sort of altercating drugs. (honestly I thought he was straight laced as someone had before mentioned. Sometimes though people turn straight laced after horrible experiences being non straight laced because they realize they don’t have good reactions to taking drugs. Such might be the case here. I recently heard he started drinking again so it’s possible he started doing other things too. I’m not really talking about marijuanna here..although it may be a slim possibiltiy – it’s highly unlikely that alone would be enough to cause a personality altercation, in fact alcohol is more indicative of violent behavior than pot is. What’s really indicative of such an extreme personality shift and inducive of out of character violent behavior is PCP or angel dust . Maybe he choose to took it himself OR maybe he bought something on the internet that he thought was something harmless but was PCP OR maybe it was on the Marijuanna (I don’t know the character of the victims either and if we’re going to be objective we must consider it all) OR maybe the marijuanna wasn’t all from the victims operation- maybe they got some outside stuff for exchange and they smoked some and it was laced. It’s all very possible. Maybe Thomas was pissed about getting unsuspectingly laced or maybe he just freaked out after the drug set in and had a predisposition to having a negative reaction. Yes you can do a complete 360 with a simple shift in brain biochemistry – it’s hard to imagine alot of our sanity rests on delicate biochemistry of our brains. I have had the misfortune of experienceing several two faced people in my life who have acted violently but not this violent.. still the edge for one person is always different for another. For one of these people I knew it was attributed to alcohol the other nothing. simply personality . So wether drugs played a part or not – we will see once the toxicology reports come back so I hope you keep us updated. Although I and many knew Thomas to be a good person- I did have some previous conversations with some well respected friends regarding a different side of him. People with more than one personality may not show it to but a few and it may not manifest until the right button is pushed whatever it is.. perhaps in this case it was money or something said. I’m guessing only one of the murders was “intented ” the rest out of fear for what was done and to get rid of the witnesses . I”m having a hard time imagining.. even if you were framed or had a bunch of weed in your vehicle why you would run from the cops- especially for so long. a good forty miles ought to be enough time to calm down if you weren’t guilty and just an innocent bystander. Thomas hit a tree and died.. the two cops could have very much been in the same boat under those dangerous driving conditions so their lives were jeopordized by his actions too. While it’s a stretch for me to believe such a horrible crime was committed by someone whom I thought was such a great person and who other people I Know are great people who think the same- It makes alot more sense that something was wrong with him rather than two dead victims, two neighbors/wounded victims, and some policemen and a made up story. Again .. the DNA evidence should be eye opening and confirm.. until then of course it’s speculation. Did he take Martial Arts? I believe Aikido which is one of the most non violent forms of MA , but how is that relevant.. Martial Artists don’t learn how to slash throats or tase people- I’d be more apt to ask wether the neighbor who was able to disarm him and escape with his life took martial arts then the suspect. Stabbing or slashing a throat… I don’t see how one signifies more competence or confindence in commiting the crime over the other. It’s probably the best way to go about it if you want someone dead and perhaps he was just smart enough to know that- that is if he did. we should find out enough soon enough. Linking the invitations of the crime to the victims because they had a grow operation seems uneducated . Does anyone know if they were legal-as it is a legal business in this day and age and we will likely see respectable people doing it with it’s increased use as a medicine. As I mentioned before I’ve seen way worse crime and violence surrounding legal alcohol use than I have with marijuana. There’s no way to assure you won’t be on the wrong end of a personality gone out of balance no matter if you are growing flowers for charity or whatever if in fact that’s what happened. My deep condolences to all effected parties as I’m just an outsider. I feel deep sadness for the loss of life and if Thomas is guilty – I feel deep sadness for his soul. While I too am perplexed as to why the husband would allow his wife to go in first to check out the situation (perhaps she knew Christine better and they thought it was more of a medical emergency than a crime) I am impressed by their willingness to help and their perseverence for driving to get help while wounded and holding on for life. When all the chips fall down with the facts and details it will still end the same way- deep sadness and loss. It was a most sad day indeed. horrific and a blow to humanity.

    • Please use paragraphs. No one will read that.

    • I agree..I really wanted to read your whole post but it was a bit overwhelming. Paragraphs are a bit easier to read. BUT I did read a lot of it and thanks for your thoughts.

  • the Gunds are fine citizens,the type you would want to come to your aid in an adverse sitsuation,Mrs Gund is an EMT,and has been a school bus driver in the area ,to do that job you are subjected to many tests such as drug testing etc.,Mr.Gund is also a upstanding local citizen,who worked with the local county road crew,(drug test also required).both known localy as good ,trustworthy,longtime residents,Mr.Gund is also,big and tough,his wife has been described to me as “one of the most capable women in our area” ,we are all proud of our area ,and a majority of our local population ,would do what they could to nulify a bad sitsuation,and go selflessly to help others. we are a very close knit comunity.there is no doubt in my mind that “mas” attacked the
    Gunds .there is no doubt in my mind that he ran from the police in a very premeditated way,the roads he chose proves to me that he knew what he was doing.I have heard no evidence to prove that ,in fact, he murdered sky and Kristine,but he did come outside and tell the Gunds that they were fine,and lead them into the house with all intentions of killing them,with the same weapons.no conspiracy here!to suggest that is irresponsible at the least.I have my own speculations that he may have had an acomplice that possibly left before the Gunds arrived,but that is a speculation ,I also belive that he may have run off the road on purpose but that is also speculation,my symphathies go out to all touched by this

    • There’s been a huge contradiction on this blog. People say to the friends of Tomas ‘it doesn’t matter if you thought your friend was a good person. You can’t know what people are hiding or truly capable of.”

      But the to any comment that Jim Gund’s story is really very strange, the answer is, ‘But they are good people!’

      You can’t discount the ‘good person’ defense on one hand, and then immediately employ it on the other. I guess everyone falls back on what THEY know.

      I think it’s more likely that another party was involved but the police wanted it to be Tomas and they pushed the Gunds to identify him so they could close the case. This is not far-fetched–this happens EVERY DAY. Witness identification is not reliable, especially when they are walking a man into a room, pointing to a corpse and saying ‘this is the man that did this to you, right?’ Of course you are going to get a positive ID.’

      There will be no DNA testing. Have the even found the murder weapon? There’s just no incentive for police to find the truth here, locals want it neatly wrapped up and seem all too ready to believe the murderer is dead.

      • Finally someone points out the obvious hypocritical backing.

        • Why did he run?

          • I mean I agree with your point about saying “he’s a good person and “they are good people”. But there is more evidence here than just that. Oregon plates adn teal car and Mas running from the cops. The 911 call and the Gunds were home when they got the call from the police to ask if they knew where a Kristine lived. So the police just happen to choosethe exact people that Kristine was calling about to ask where she lived? Now that is far fetched. Not impossible, but far fetched. They have no reason to lie..now the ID of suspects…that is very faulty.

            • But there are also the weird inconsistencies in the stories between the deputy and the Gunds. Jim Gund said the deputy talked to him and asked him to go over to the house. The deputy’s office has said that the deputy talked only to Norma, and explicitly told her NOT to go to the house.

              Maybe the deputy is just trying to cover his butt. Maybe the Gunds daughter was confused, or Jim was unclear when he told her what had happened. But for all those who say nothing at all is strange in the story, there is glaring contradiction between the Gunds and the deputy that you can’t get around.

              Also, the sheriff has apparently forbidden anyone from the department from talking to the media as of Friday, and the Redding paper believes they are getting so much less information than normal that they have filed a public records request to get information about the case. Which is also strange.

              • To be fair, the story we have from Mr. Gund is second hand and at a time of pretty intense trauma. I’d wait to see how the story comes from his first hand account. As you can see with my reporting of the rumor that Kristin and Mas were ex partners, even from credible sources, stories can get messed up without any intention on anyone’s part to deceive.

                • Since the sheriff’s office was so blithely putting out information for which there was no evidence, are denying events as they were relayed by Mr. Gund, and are now refusing to talk to the media at all, I am not entirely sure they can be called a ‘credible source.’

                • RT, what information did they put out that they didn’t have evidence for?

              • Friend of Sky and Mas

                I don’t really think that we can hold a second hand account as being fully accurate. It’s like that game of telephone we used to play as kids where the first person in a circle of 20 said banana and the word at the end of the circle was tomato. I have not seen any statements come out directly from the Gunds, and those are the only ones that I would really trust. As for a big conspiracy theory, perhaps the cops are not releasing information yet because they are afraid of being sued by the Gunds. I read an article somewhere on the web (sorry it was a few days ago so I can not give you the link to it) saying that something like this had happened before. Where they sent a friend over to a house and got them killed. I would very much like to hear a first hand account of what happened directly from the Gunds so that all this conspiracy theory stuff can be dropped.

  • the Gunds are fine citizens,the type you would want to come to your aid in an adverse sitsuation,Mrs Gund is an EMT,and has been a school bus driver in the area ,to do that job you are subjected to many tests such as drug testing etc.,Mr.Gund is also a upstanding local citizen,who worked with the local county road crew,(drug test also required).both known localy as good ,trustworthy,longtime residents,Mr.Gund is also,big and tough,his wife has been described to me as “one of the most capable women in our area” ,we are all proud of our area ,and a majority of our local population ,would do what they could to nulify a bad sitsuation,and go selflessly to help others. we are a very close knit comunity.there is no doubt in my mind that “mas” attacked the
    Gunds .there is no doubt in my mind that he ran from the police in a very premeditated way,the roads he chose proves to me that he knew what he was doing.I have heard no evidence to prove that ,in fact, he murdered sky and Kristine,but he did come outside and tell the Gunds that they were fine,and lead them into the house with all intentions of killing them,with the same weapons.no conspiracy here!to suggest that is irresponsible at the least.I have my own speculations that he may have had an acomplice that possibly left before the Gunds arrived,but that is a speculation ,I also belive that he may have run off the road on purpose but that is also speculation,my symphathies go out to all touched by this

    • There’s been a huge contradiction on this blog. People say to the friends of Tomas ‘it doesn’t matter if you thought your friend was a good person. You can’t know what people are hiding or truly capable of.”

      But the to any comment that Jim Gund’s story is really very strange, the answer is, ‘But they are good people!’

      You can’t discount the ‘good person’ defense on one hand, and then immediately employ it on the other. I guess everyone falls back on what THEY know.

      I think it’s more likely that another party was involved but the police wanted it to be Tomas and they pushed the Gunds to identify him so they could close the case. This is not far-fetched–this happens EVERY DAY. Witness identification is not reliable, especially when they are walking a man into a room, pointing to a corpse and saying ‘this is the man that did this to you, right?’ Of course you are going to get a positive ID.’

      There will be no DNA testing. Have the even found the murder weapon? There’s just no incentive for police to find the truth here, locals want it neatly wrapped up and seem all too ready to believe the murderer is dead.

      • Finally someone points out the obvious hypocritical backing.

        • Why did he run?

          • I mean I agree with your point about saying “he’s a good person and “they are good people”. But there is more evidence here than just that. Oregon plates adn teal car and Mas running from the cops. The 911 call and the Gunds were home when they got the call from the police to ask if they knew where a Kristine lived. So the police just happen to choosethe exact people that Kristine was calling about to ask where she lived? Now that is far fetched. Not impossible, but far fetched. They have no reason to lie..now the ID of suspects…that is very faulty.

            • But there are also the weird inconsistencies in the stories between the deputy and the Gunds. Jim Gund said the deputy talked to him and asked him to go over to the house. The deputy’s office has said that the deputy talked only to Norma, and explicitly told her NOT to go to the house.

              Maybe the deputy is just trying to cover his butt. Maybe the Gunds daughter was confused, or Jim was unclear when he told her what had happened. But for all those who say nothing at all is strange in the story, there is glaring contradiction between the Gunds and the deputy that you can’t get around.

              Also, the sheriff has apparently forbidden anyone from the department from talking to the media as of Friday, and the Redding paper believes they are getting so much less information than normal that they have filed a public records request to get information about the case. Which is also strange.

              • To be fair, the story we have from Mr. Gund is second hand and at a time of pretty intense trauma. I’d wait to see how the story comes from his first hand account. As you can see with my reporting of the rumor that Kristin and Mas were ex partners, even from credible sources, stories can get messed up without any intention on anyone’s part to deceive.

                • Since the sheriff’s office was so blithely putting out information for which there was no evidence, are denying events as they were relayed by Mr. Gund, and are now refusing to talk to the media at all, I am not entirely sure they can be called a ‘credible source.’

                • RT, what information did they put out that they didn’t have evidence for?

              • Friend of Sky and Mas

                I don’t really think that we can hold a second hand account as being fully accurate. It’s like that game of telephone we used to play as kids where the first person in a circle of 20 said banana and the word at the end of the circle was tomato. I have not seen any statements come out directly from the Gunds, and those are the only ones that I would really trust. As for a big conspiracy theory, perhaps the cops are not releasing information yet because they are afraid of being sued by the Gunds. I read an article somewhere on the web (sorry it was a few days ago so I can not give you the link to it) saying that something like this had happened before. Where they sent a friend over to a house and got them killed. I would very much like to hear a first hand account of what happened directly from the Gunds so that all this conspiracy theory stuff can be dropped.

  • I was a very good friend of Tomas’ for a long time. We had a falling out, I thought a minor one, and a very different side of him came out. Not necessarily violent but pretty nasty. Though I had a hard time believing this at first, after seeing that side of him, I find it easier to believe he snapped than that there is a town wide conspiracy going on.

  • thanks $%& i was beginning to wonder if i was the only one who got on mas’ wrong side. seems the defenders of mas are reeling because they believed in the friendly front he maintained around them. he was quite charismatic, a leader/central figure in the music scene, and his defenders remind me of cult-followers who cannot fathom how their god-like guru has fallen, so horrifying and violent his plung was. i feel compassion and disgust reading their conspiracy theories. but i understand them. the world has been shattered. in time, once DNA and toxicology results come out, perhaps then they will accept the truth. they will need to process not only feelings of grief and shock, but also anger, betrayal and intense self-doubt. “How could I have trusted him, when he turned out to be so violent?”

    • It is important to remember that in the grieving process, denial and anger are two important stages…

      • Tomas dated my roommate 10 years ago, and we became family. We are still family. I would never have imagined him capable of this monstrosity he is being accused of, and yes, it has left my world shattered. I don’t believe that he did this, but if he did, it will not in any way take away from the love I hold for him. It will not make him any less my friend, or any less a part of my family. I am so sorry for everyone’s loss. I am so saddened that these wonderful people were taken from the world and the people who loved them. Regardless of the outcome I will never feel he betrayed me, and if something happened and he did snap, for whatever reason, it will not, in my mind destroy one bit of the wonderful life that he lived. Unconditional love is just that. UNCONDITIONAL! One act of violence, does not take away from a lifetime of pacifism and loving kindness.

  • thanks $%& i was beginning to wonder if i was the only one who got on mas’ wrong side. seems the defenders of mas are reeling because they believed in the friendly front he maintained around them. he was quite charismatic, a leader/central figure in the music scene, and his defenders remind me of cult-followers who cannot fathom how their god-like guru has fallen, so horrifying and violent his plung was. i feel compassion and disgust reading their conspiracy theories. but i understand them. the world has been shattered. in time, once DNA and toxicology results come out, perhaps then they will accept the truth. they will need to process not only feelings of grief and shock, but also anger, betrayal and intense self-doubt. “How could I have trusted him, when he turned out to be so violent?”

    • It is important to remember that in the grieving process, denial and anger are two important stages…

      • Tomas dated my roommate 10 years ago, and we became family. We are still family. I would never have imagined him capable of this monstrosity he is being accused of, and yes, it has left my world shattered. I don’t believe that he did this, but if he did, it will not in any way take away from the love I hold for him. It will not make him any less my friend, or any less a part of my family. I am so sorry for everyone’s loss. I am so saddened that these wonderful people were taken from the world and the people who loved them. Regardless of the outcome I will never feel he betrayed me, and if something happened and he did snap, for whatever reason, it will not, in my mind destroy one bit of the wonderful life that he lived. Unconditional love is just that. UNCONDITIONAL! One act of violence, does not take away from a lifetime of pacifism and loving kindness.

  • All the good, illegal and legal, growers in N. California always get along right?

    It seems more likely that two rival operations had issues, than internal politics. How close were Thomas, Sky, and Kristine? Were these people deeply connected together or just some random people? If their relationship was purely business, then I see the events as described being possible. If they had strong ties together, then you wonder and have a harder time seeing those unravel quickly.

    I suspect an area that isn’t frequently visited by law enforcement has developed their own “rules”. Perhaps law enforcement doesn’t want to visit there for some other reasons; bribes, agreements, or fear of the locals.

    Were there other neighbors? Other people with knowledge of the relationships between the people directly identified as being involved? Surely, there must be some other clues that confirm one thing or another….if the police have even bothered checking. Wouldn’t Thomas have talked to his family and friends leading up to this? What about Sky and Kristine? Did they tell anyone they were worried?

    I’ve heard rumors of this type of crime happening on some regular basis in this area, with throat slitting. I can’t back that up, aside from a rumor. Still, if this occurs there frequently, it makes you wonder about more organization being involved.

    • The Kettenpom store owner said he’d never heard/seen anything like this before so it doesn’t sound common.

      Sky and Mas knew each other well according to other people who have commented here.

      • A quick online search shows 3 murders in Trinity county (not counting the current). In 2005, 2004, and 2000. That rumor of stabbing deaths seems to be exxagerated to me.

  • All the good, illegal and legal, growers in N. California always get along right?

    It seems more likely that two rival operations had issues, than internal politics. How close were Thomas, Sky, and Kristine? Were these people deeply connected together or just some random people? If their relationship was purely business, then I see the events as described being possible. If they had strong ties together, then you wonder and have a harder time seeing those unravel quickly.

    I suspect an area that isn’t frequently visited by law enforcement has developed their own “rules”. Perhaps law enforcement doesn’t want to visit there for some other reasons; bribes, agreements, or fear of the locals.

    Were there other neighbors? Other people with knowledge of the relationships between the people directly identified as being involved? Surely, there must be some other clues that confirm one thing or another….if the police have even bothered checking. Wouldn’t Thomas have talked to his family and friends leading up to this? What about Sky and Kristine? Did they tell anyone they were worried?

    I’ve heard rumors of this type of crime happening on some regular basis in this area, with throat slitting. I can’t back that up, aside from a rumor. Still, if this occurs there frequently, it makes you wonder about more organization being involved.

    • The Kettenpom store owner said he’d never heard/seen anything like this before so it doesn’t sound common.

      Sky and Mas knew each other well according to other people who have commented here.

      • A quick online search shows 3 murders in Trinity county (not counting the current). In 2005, 2004, and 2000. That rumor of stabbing deaths seems to be exxagerated to me.

  • they were all from Corvallis… Summit- Corvallis potato patato. We are all a reflection of human that is within us all. The energy Sky held is not of a risky or violent nature and was well rooted…. Not judging those who fought the compulsions of dangerous thoughts and lost. The sadness of living in the head and heart of those is enough punishment, and he is not in a place to hurt anyone now. Positive thought for his being consumed by the positive where he is at now. BELIEVE. Sky and his girlfriend will be missed it is a time to grieve. The sadness is only for us, for those they have passed on are in a place where the duality of pain and struggle are over, and we are all still ONE.

    • This person is on the right track.

      Everyone is suffering, trying to portray any of the dead in any sort of way (except remembering the best in them) is dispicable and crude to do in a time when everyone who knew them is in grieving.

  • they were all from Corvallis… Summit- Corvallis potato patato. We are all a reflection of human that is within us all. The energy Sky held is not of a risky or violent nature and was well rooted…. Not judging those who fought the compulsions of dangerous thoughts and lost. The sadness of living in the head and heart of those is enough punishment, and he is not in a place to hurt anyone now. Positive thought for his being consumed by the positive where he is at now. BELIEVE. Sky and his girlfriend will be missed it is a time to grieve. The sadness is only for us, for those they have passed on are in a place where the duality of pain and struggle are over, and we are all still ONE.

    • This person is on the right track.

      Everyone is suffering, trying to portray any of the dead in any sort of way (except remembering the best in them) is dispicable and crude to do in a time when everyone who knew them is in grieving.

  • In answer to earlier questions about Mas’ size:
    he was 6’2″ or 6’3″ , 225 pounds when in good shape.

  • In answer to earlier questions about Mas’ size:
    he was 6’2″ or 6’3″ , 225 pounds when in good shape.

  • bizarre. they threw a party for mas last night.

    the facebook page says: “fire dancing is cool as long as we mow a circle down! If anyone wants to help set up that would be cool! We’ll be howling and drumming for Mas and anyone wanting to come and share some healing vibes is encouraged!”
    http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=196593527030822

    there is some serious denial up here in corvallis.

    • Friend of Sky and Mas

      While I totally agree that there is some major denial going on up here, that party was not for Mas. If you look at the title of the event it says “3rd Year Anniversary Full Moon Gathering and Spring Solstice.” It was a solstice party and just because one girl who was attending said something in the comments section about Mas does not mean that the party was based around him by any means. It was a “3rd Annual” meaning that it was not just a party thrown for Mas. It was to celebrate the fact that the sun is coming back. But…. I agree, I am tired of the denial and the crazy conspiracy theories as well. There was an event planned in Corvallis that was organized really quickly by friends of both Sky and Mas that was basically a fundraiser, but it fell through because they could not get permits in time, and neither family was involved in planning the event or was planning on being there. I think mostly people out here would like to help and support Mas’ fiance who is now in the need of a new car.

      • There was a drum circle planned for Mas. It was cancelled for a couple of reasons, including a conflicting memorial for Sky. Many people were friends with both and are feeling pain.

    • You really are just someone out to Hurt.

      Pathetic when you start acting like the friends of the accused are in the wrong for wanting to remember their friends. Did you even know Sky? The event was just a gathering that happened to be occuring and it was suggested that a remembrance was in order.

      You act like you knew Mas and that he wronged you, but from all you have written you sound like you haven’t known him recently or you wouldn’t be throwing around the innane comments about the friends and family of him.

      Grow a pair and realize that if you don’t have anything good to say keep your mouth shut.

  • bizarre. they threw a party for mas last night.

    the facebook page says: “fire dancing is cool as long as we mow a circle down! If anyone wants to help set up that would be cool! We’ll be howling and drumming for Mas and anyone wanting to come and share some healing vibes is encouraged!”
    http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=196593527030822

    there is some serious denial up here in corvallis.

    • Friend of Sky and Mas

      While I totally agree that there is some major denial going on up here, that party was not for Mas. If you look at the title of the event it says “3rd Year Anniversary Full Moon Gathering and Spring Solstice.” It was a solstice party and just because one girl who was attending said something in the comments section about Mas does not mean that the party was based around him by any means. It was a “3rd Annual” meaning that it was not just a party thrown for Mas. It was to celebrate the fact that the sun is coming back. But…. I agree, I am tired of the denial and the crazy conspiracy theories as well. There was an event planned in Corvallis that was organized really quickly by friends of both Sky and Mas that was basically a fundraiser, but it fell through because they could not get permits in time, and neither family was involved in planning the event or was planning on being there. I think mostly people out here would like to help and support Mas’ fiance who is now in the need of a new car.

      • There was a drum circle planned for Mas. It was cancelled for a couple of reasons, including a conflicting memorial for Sky. Many people were friends with both and are feeling pain.

    • You really are just someone out to Hurt.

      Pathetic when you start acting like the friends of the accused are in the wrong for wanting to remember their friends. Did you even know Sky? The event was just a gathering that happened to be occuring and it was suggested that a remembrance was in order.

      You act like you knew Mas and that he wronged you, but from all you have written you sound like you haven’t known him recently or you wouldn’t be throwing around the innane comments about the friends and family of him.

      Grow a pair and realize that if you don’t have anything good to say keep your mouth shut.

  • Tomas was one of the most gentle people I’ve ever met in my life – I reserve judgment till the forensic evidence comes to light – this just reeks of a frame or something. The Gunds’ stories don’t make much sense, and basically it’s their word vs. a dead man’s. Hopefully, the police have been able to properly investigate this so that the truth can be known (even if the truth is that one of the most gentle spirits I’ve known committed such terrible acts – I’d rather know than not). I get the impression that because of the location of the murders, the time it took the police to arrive and the Gunds’ jumping into the debacle (against the instructions of the police) this situation may never fully be explained.

    I know folks are trying to paint a picture of the Gunds’ as being these thoughtful and caring neighbors who jumped at the opportunity to help a neighbor who was potentially in distress (noble, yes. stupid, yes. suspicious, definitely), but their story seems riddled with illogical behavior – what kind of a man let’s his wife go first into potential danger? What kind of a wife leaves her husband while he’s fighting for his life, and drives off to some store where she “knows” somebody, instead of maybe the first available place where she could get help? Why didn’t she call the cell phone number the police had given her (of the officer en route to the scene) on her way to the store, I don’t know, to maybe let the officer know that, YES, something was wrong and, YES, someone is armed and dangerous? Why didn’t they follow the instructions of the police when they were told to stay put? My best guess: either they were involved somehow and are trying to cover their tracks, or they actually are the thoughtful neighbors everyone’s portraying them to be – possibly a little of both. My mind is entirely open to either idea – and not just because Tomas was a long time friend of mine, but because I fully recognize the complexities that may have been at play in such a screwed up scenario.

    Food for thought – and let’s all pray that the truth of the matter comes to light, no matter what that truth might look like. And may all who came to harm in this situation find peace.

    • I doubt if I had my windpipe slashed open that I would act in a logical manner. Instead of focusing on what these people did when confronted with a terrifying situation & picking apart their actions, why not focus on Tomas’ actions. If he walked in on a crime, & was not the killer, why run? Kristine had a phone there, why not call somebody? I was a very good friend of his for 8 yrs, & that is why I’m pondering his actions more than the Gunds. I just can’t believe in a conspiracy involving a whole town & the cops, which is what it would have to be to explain his actions.

      • Friend of Kristine

        I knew Kristine briefly, we have a close mutual friend and I would seriously text her once in awhile to see if she was still alive because I was there when she found and decided to rent that cabin. The owners live in Alaska if I remember correctly. The place was creepy–like you couldn’t relax there. I thought she was crazy for getting into it. She was so naive and positive about people and everything. She was an interesting, free spirited woman who was very sweet and friendly with anyone. To those of you who don’t know the layout up there, the store really is the closest place to the cabin, even at the distance it was…if you were the Gunds’ trying to help, and went to a neighbors house first, you run the risk of wasting your time if they aren’t home–but there is always someone at the store. In my opinion (which doesn’t really matter at all!), it sounds like something went wrong while the Oregonian(s) were trying to maybe steal some pot and money, and they ended up with witnesses and bodies and everything probably got out of hand really quickly. I don’t know, but I know Kristine and she was pretty open about the pot thing…I had to convince her for her own safety not to put her pot plants right next to the freaking main road. So I can see where someone with greed in mind would take advantage. I really don’t know if they set out to kill her but something went wrong. That’s my opinion and it really doesn’t matter now because three quarters of the situation is dead. As for the last person standing, I’m very sorry for the loss of her fiancé and close childhood friend, and I hope she finds it in her heart of hearts to set the truth free regarding what happened on that dark day. I haven’t talked to Kristine since last summer, and just last week I asked our mutual friend if she has heard anything from her. She was heavy on my mind and now I know why! :……((((

  • Tomas was one of the most gentle people I’ve ever met in my life – I reserve judgment till the forensic evidence comes to light – this just reeks of a frame or something. The Gunds’ stories don’t make much sense, and basically it’s their word vs. a dead man’s. Hopefully, the police have been able to properly investigate this so that the truth can be known (even if the truth is that one of the most gentle spirits I’ve known committed such terrible acts – I’d rather know than not). I get the impression that because of the location of the murders, the time it took the police to arrive and the Gunds’ jumping into the debacle (against the instructions of the police) this situation may never fully be explained.

    I know folks are trying to paint a picture of the Gunds’ as being these thoughtful and caring neighbors who jumped at the opportunity to help a neighbor who was potentially in distress (noble, yes. stupid, yes. suspicious, definitely), but their story seems riddled with illogical behavior – what kind of a man let’s his wife go first into potential danger? What kind of a wife leaves her husband while he’s fighting for his life, and drives off to some store where she “knows” somebody, instead of maybe the first available place where she could get help? Why didn’t she call the cell phone number the police had given her (of the officer en route to the scene) on her way to the store, I don’t know, to maybe let the officer know that, YES, something was wrong and, YES, someone is armed and dangerous? Why didn’t they follow the instructions of the police when they were told to stay put? My best guess: either they were involved somehow and are trying to cover their tracks, or they actually are the thoughtful neighbors everyone’s portraying them to be – possibly a little of both. My mind is entirely open to either idea – and not just because Tomas was a long time friend of mine, but because I fully recognize the complexities that may have been at play in such a screwed up scenario.

    Food for thought – and let’s all pray that the truth of the matter comes to light, no matter what that truth might look like. And may all who came to harm in this situation find peace.

    • I doubt if I had my windpipe slashed open that I would act in a logical manner. Instead of focusing on what these people did when confronted with a terrifying situation & picking apart their actions, why not focus on Tomas’ actions. If he walked in on a crime, & was not the killer, why run? Kristine had a phone there, why not call somebody? I was a very good friend of his for 8 yrs, & that is why I’m pondering his actions more than the Gunds. I just can’t believe in a conspiracy involving a whole town & the cops, which is what it would have to be to explain his actions.

      • Friend of Kristine

        I knew Kristine briefly, we have a close mutual friend and I would seriously text her once in awhile to see if she was still alive because I was there when she found and decided to rent that cabin. The owners live in Alaska if I remember correctly. The place was creepy–like you couldn’t relax there. I thought she was crazy for getting into it. She was so naive and positive about people and everything. She was an interesting, free spirited woman who was very sweet and friendly with anyone. To those of you who don’t know the layout up there, the store really is the closest place to the cabin, even at the distance it was…if you were the Gunds’ trying to help, and went to a neighbors house first, you run the risk of wasting your time if they aren’t home–but there is always someone at the store. In my opinion (which doesn’t really matter at all!), it sounds like something went wrong while the Oregonian(s) were trying to maybe steal some pot and money, and they ended up with witnesses and bodies and everything probably got out of hand really quickly. I don’t know, but I know Kristine and she was pretty open about the pot thing…I had to convince her for her own safety not to put her pot plants right next to the freaking main road. So I can see where someone with greed in mind would take advantage. I really don’t know if they set out to kill her but something went wrong. That’s my opinion and it really doesn’t matter now because three quarters of the situation is dead. As for the last person standing, I’m very sorry for the loss of her fiancé and close childhood friend, and I hope she finds it in her heart of hearts to set the truth free regarding what happened on that dark day. I haven’t talked to Kristine since last summer, and just last week I asked our mutual friend if she has heard anything from her. She was heavy on my mind and now I know why! :……((((

  • joiningthediscussion

    To say that people in Corvallis are in denial.. seems a bit harsh. Perhaps suspending judgement until more facts come out may be more of an appropriate assessment, especially in light of having an absence of exact evidence at this moment . Of course friends and loved ones are who experienced above and beyond kindness from someone are going to have some questions and alternate theories. As far as being down “throwing a party for Mas” (even though it seems now that wasn’t at all what it was) many friends of Mas were also friends with Sky and Christine and we are not “cult followers” rather we believe in Love. Mas was not our leader , he was simply one of our best, and if he went astray we would still never stop loving him because that’s what love means. Not that that in any way excuses his behavior but it is completely unneccesary to bring more hatred or to hold back love from a situation like this- that’s how wars get started, that’s how violence and hatred get perpetuated through family generations, and these are the very things that make the world less then the beautiful place it could be. If Mas did it, then surely he will need all the love he can get right now and if not from the ones who he loved and who loved him before whatever demonic tendency may or may not have overcome him.. then from who? A healing circle is exactly that.. healing . Wether it’s grieving the loss of a loved one or grieving the loss of goodness or grieving for a soul gone astray and sending all the positive energy their way- it matters not. What matters is that more love, light , and positivity enter the situation as possible, as clearly there is enough negative here already than anyone would care to have to be a reality.

  • joiningthediscussion

    To say that people in Corvallis are in denial.. seems a bit harsh. Perhaps suspending judgement until more facts come out may be more of an appropriate assessment, especially in light of having an absence of exact evidence at this moment . Of course friends and loved ones are who experienced above and beyond kindness from someone are going to have some questions and alternate theories. As far as being down “throwing a party for Mas” (even though it seems now that wasn’t at all what it was) many friends of Mas were also friends with Sky and Christine and we are not “cult followers” rather we believe in Love. Mas was not our leader , he was simply one of our best, and if he went astray we would still never stop loving him because that’s what love means. Not that that in any way excuses his behavior but it is completely unneccesary to bring more hatred or to hold back love from a situation like this- that’s how wars get started, that’s how violence and hatred get perpetuated through family generations, and these are the very things that make the world less then the beautiful place it could be. If Mas did it, then surely he will need all the love he can get right now and if not from the ones who he loved and who loved him before whatever demonic tendency may or may not have overcome him.. then from who? A healing circle is exactly that.. healing . Wether it’s grieving the loss of a loved one or grieving the loss of goodness or grieving for a soul gone astray and sending all the positive energy their way- it matters not. What matters is that more love, light , and positivity enter the situation as possible, as clearly there is enough negative here already than anyone would care to have to be a reality.

  • sorry you think i’m being harsh. fact is there are quite a few “former friends of mas” lurking here, afraid of speaking out against the teddybear giant, just as there are people cooking up conspiracy theories. fact is his fiance needs more than a new car – how about an attorney. she likely knows a lot more about his trafficking (being a recipient of the ca$h and a heavy ganja user). most of the defenders of mas were likely ganja customers too, right? perhaps they need to defend him because acknowledging his horrific crime would require them to contemplate their culpability in the violence. so much for marjuana being a “victimless crime”.

    • I completely agree. I was wondering why no one has been questioning his fiance considering that she was stranded in the area (implying she knew why they were there) and most likely has the fullest knowledge of why he was visiting the Constantinos.

      • Friend of Sky and Mas

        Um yeah. I am certainly no defender of Mas but… the FACT is that Jenna was not down there. That is a FACT, not speculation. There are probably a good 25-50 different people who can confirm her whereabouts as she was playing a gig at Cloud 9 with her band. There were probably a good 100-200 people who saw her there, and there are plenty of pictures to prove it as well. And I am sure she has already talked to the police as she was the one who went down there afterwords to pick up Mas’ body. I am sure the cops would not have released him to her if they had any thought that she might have been involved. I agree with $%&, leave her out of this. She is a victim here.

    • Your grudge is getting more obvious and nastier, as you are now directing your ill-will toward Tomas’ fiance, even suggesting that you think she should be prosecuted for something.

      Saying something is a ‘conspiracy theory’ is a great way to just pin a label on something and so discredit it. But the fact is that the Gund’s story is strange. It is not a ‘conspiracy theory’ to point out that sometimes people lie.

      Also, sometimes people work together to commit crimes, and lie. You don’t have to be a crazy person to believe that. And as commenters on this blog have said, knowing someone is a good person apparently is no kind of defense, since that knowledge is apparently completely meaningless. So the fact that people think the Gunds are good people doesn’t mean anything (according to people here). And if you admit the possibility that it is possible that the Gunds are not being truthful (someone is lying about the call between the deputy and the Gunds), the only ‘evidence’ is that Tomas had likely been at the house, was likely involved in business with them, and Tomas ran from the police. That alone isn’t enough evidence for me to abandon the things that I know.

    • you all go too far…don’t drag Jenna into this. She’s a huge victim in this situation. She’s lost a man she loved, regardless of what you think of him. Her car was totaled and confiscated. You talk like she’s rolling in cash, a flippin ganj kingpin. Jenna & Mas were living in a parked schoolbus at his moms house! And she was not in the area! She was in Corvallis, trying to get ahold of Tomas, who wouldn’t answer his phone. Leave her out of this.

    • You are out of line.

      I’ll leave it at that.

      You seem like you are an ex friend that is spiteful of being excommunicated.

    • My guess is Mas’ girl has already heard from the cops. If not yet, this week for sure. You all will be amazed what those hick town investigators can figure out.

  • sorry you think i’m being harsh. fact is there are quite a few “former friends of mas” lurking here, afraid of speaking out against the teddybear giant, just as there are people cooking up conspiracy theories. fact is his fiance needs more than a new car – how about an attorney. she likely knows a lot more about his trafficking (being a recipient of the ca$h and a heavy ganja user). most of the defenders of mas were likely ganja customers too, right? perhaps they need to defend him because acknowledging his horrific crime would require them to contemplate their culpability in the violence. so much for marjuana being a “victimless crime”.

    • I completely agree. I was wondering why no one has been questioning his fiance considering that she was stranded in the area (implying she knew why they were there) and most likely has the fullest knowledge of why he was visiting the Constantinos.

      • Friend of Sky and Mas

        Um yeah. I am certainly no defender of Mas but… the FACT is that Jenna was not down there. That is a FACT, not speculation. There are probably a good 25-50 different people who can confirm her whereabouts as she was playing a gig at Cloud 9 with her band. There were probably a good 100-200 people who saw her there, and there are plenty of pictures to prove it as well. And I am sure she has already talked to the police as she was the one who went down there afterwords to pick up Mas’ body. I am sure the cops would not have released him to her if they had any thought that she might have been involved. I agree with $%&, leave her out of this. She is a victim here.

    • Your grudge is getting more obvious and nastier, as you are now directing your ill-will toward Tomas’ fiance, even suggesting that you think she should be prosecuted for something.

      Saying something is a ‘conspiracy theory’ is a great way to just pin a label on something and so discredit it. But the fact is that the Gund’s story is strange. It is not a ‘conspiracy theory’ to point out that sometimes people lie.

      Also, sometimes people work together to commit crimes, and lie. You don’t have to be a crazy person to believe that. And as commenters on this blog have said, knowing someone is a good person apparently is no kind of defense, since that knowledge is apparently completely meaningless. So the fact that people think the Gunds are good people doesn’t mean anything (according to people here). And if you admit the possibility that it is possible that the Gunds are not being truthful (someone is lying about the call between the deputy and the Gunds), the only ‘evidence’ is that Tomas had likely been at the house, was likely involved in business with them, and Tomas ran from the police. That alone isn’t enough evidence for me to abandon the things that I know.

    • you all go too far…don’t drag Jenna into this. She’s a huge victim in this situation. She’s lost a man she loved, regardless of what you think of him. Her car was totaled and confiscated. You talk like she’s rolling in cash, a flippin ganj kingpin. Jenna & Mas were living in a parked schoolbus at his moms house! And she was not in the area! She was in Corvallis, trying to get ahold of Tomas, who wouldn’t answer his phone. Leave her out of this.

    • You are out of line.

      I’ll leave it at that.

      You seem like you are an ex friend that is spiteful of being excommunicated.

    • My guess is Mas’ girl has already heard from the cops. If not yet, this week for sure. You all will be amazed what those hick town investigators can figure out.

  • I’m in total shock learning about this happening to a sweet friend of mine. I shouldn’t even be posting here, but I am so fucking disgusted at about half of the posts on here I can’t believe the insensitivity and stupidity.
    Guess what, your psychopathic friend snapped and killed 2 nice people. In my opinion the pot thing was a side-note. His crime is beyond the pale, using a knife is so animalistic and personal. If he was on some kind of serious (Meth, DMT) drug, I can have a tiny bit of compassion.
    Wanting to talk shit about “the drug culture” up here is a joke. Of the thousands of growers and tens of thousands of deals yearly, how many go bad? 20? This was not a simple robbery, this was first about murder. The herb and cash were just icing.
    You “friends of Mas” should go form your own blog to theorize and remember your friend.
    And not force your BS on friends and family of the victims, grow some DECENCY, you should be ashamed. Your mom sure would be.

    • I’m sorry that you lost a friend.

      I just ask that you do take into account “innocent until proven guilty”

      I lost two friends, there is fishy stuff with the way the LE is acting and the way it happened that is at the root of the barrage of questioning comments that seem to think the accused is innocent.

      Understand that you aren’t alone in your grieving and we also are grieving, many of the commenters know more than the papers/news/le have released and as such we are more questioning.

      The best thing that can happen is for DNA proof then the doubters can believe and the grieving can be without trauma.

  • I’m in total shock learning about this happening to a sweet friend of mine. I shouldn’t even be posting here, but I am so fucking disgusted at about half of the posts on here I can’t believe the insensitivity and stupidity.
    Guess what, your psychopathic friend snapped and killed 2 nice people. In my opinion the pot thing was a side-note. His crime is beyond the pale, using a knife is so animalistic and personal. If he was on some kind of serious (Meth, DMT) drug, I can have a tiny bit of compassion.
    Wanting to talk shit about “the drug culture” up here is a joke. Of the thousands of growers and tens of thousands of deals yearly, how many go bad? 20? This was not a simple robbery, this was first about murder. The herb and cash were just icing.
    You “friends of Mas” should go form your own blog to theorize and remember your friend.
    And not force your BS on friends and family of the victims, grow some DECENCY, you should be ashamed. Your mom sure would be.

    • I’m sorry that you lost a friend.

      I just ask that you do take into account “innocent until proven guilty”

      I lost two friends, there is fishy stuff with the way the LE is acting and the way it happened that is at the root of the barrage of questioning comments that seem to think the accused is innocent.

      Understand that you aren’t alone in your grieving and we also are grieving, many of the commenters know more than the papers/news/le have released and as such we are more questioning.

      The best thing that can happen is for DNA proof then the doubters can believe and the grieving can be without trauma.

  • joiningthediscussion

    I think we are all disgusted at the events that occurred no matter who we are friends with. The fact that three people are dead and the way it occurred is horrific and has been causing everyone alot of emotional and other distress. People are shocked and confused. There is no one right way to handle and deal with this news. Good people get corrupted all the time. People from all walks of life from Hippie Circles to Police Forces, to Governments and Religions.- this doesn’t change the validity or assume the cause of the rest of the group. As I stated before there is no one way to assure that you will not be on the receiving end of good gone wrong only to be the kind of person who would never do that. If and how people choose to relax and unwind wether it’s alcohol or pot is their choice as far as it doesn’t affect others. As I stated earlier, I have seen way worse crime and violence associated with alcohol use than I have with pot. I’ve never seen Mas smoke pot.. wether he was dealing it or not or wether it had anything to do with the reason that these two people died is beyond me. Killing is a serious crime and none of us would ever say that it’s ok. To desperately seek to understand the circumstances surrounding such a horrible & seemingly mysteriously out of character occurrence is not bad upbringing, it’s human nature. If what we once thought we knew and what we know know are two different things then so be it- there was no possible way for us to have known we were in the dark. It still doesn’t change the need for love and forgiveness. There is nothing but victims in this situation and we stand together in that and mourn in sadness and grief at the loss of life and the manifestation of evil.

    • I don’t understand where all this straight edge stuff is coming from. I smoked alot of ganj with Mas, not that it has anything to do with it. In fact, I would bet the pot was a side issue. If he killed them, I doubt it was over pot. Taking a profit from the murder afterwards was probably an afterthought.

      • You’ve wrote this before and someone asked. When?!

        You say he wronged you also and that he “turned on you” so then when could you possibly have seen him or done this? I’ve known him for years and he hasn’t drunk/smoked in the last 4 years.

        I am curious because you speak of him wronging you, lets hear at least a time frame for that.

        • I didn’t say he wronged me. I said we had a disagreement, one I thought was minor. And it was recent. And none of this matters, but there you go.

  • joiningthediscussion

    I think we are all disgusted at the events that occurred no matter who we are friends with. The fact that three people are dead and the way it occurred is horrific and has been causing everyone alot of emotional and other distress. People are shocked and confused. There is no one right way to handle and deal with this news. Good people get corrupted all the time. People from all walks of life from Hippie Circles to Police Forces, to Governments and Religions.- this doesn’t change the validity or assume the cause of the rest of the group. As I stated before there is no one way to assure that you will not be on the receiving end of good gone wrong only to be the kind of person who would never do that. If and how people choose to relax and unwind wether it’s alcohol or pot is their choice as far as it doesn’t affect others. As I stated earlier, I have seen way worse crime and violence associated with alcohol use than I have with pot. I’ve never seen Mas smoke pot.. wether he was dealing it or not or wether it had anything to do with the reason that these two people died is beyond me. Killing is a serious crime and none of us would ever say that it’s ok. To desperately seek to understand the circumstances surrounding such a horrible & seemingly mysteriously out of character occurrence is not bad upbringing, it’s human nature. If what we once thought we knew and what we know know are two different things then so be it- there was no possible way for us to have known we were in the dark. It still doesn’t change the need for love and forgiveness. There is nothing but victims in this situation and we stand together in that and mourn in sadness and grief at the loss of life and the manifestation of evil.

    • I don’t understand where all this straight edge stuff is coming from. I smoked alot of ganj with Mas, not that it has anything to do with it. In fact, I would bet the pot was a side issue. If he killed them, I doubt it was over pot. Taking a profit from the murder afterwards was probably an afterthought.

      • You’ve wrote this before and someone asked. When?!

        You say he wronged you also and that he “turned on you” so then when could you possibly have seen him or done this? I’ve known him for years and he hasn’t drunk/smoked in the last 4 years.

        I am curious because you speak of him wronging you, lets hear at least a time frame for that.

        • I didn’t say he wronged me. I said we had a disagreement, one I thought was minor. And it was recent. And none of this matters, but there you go.

  • I get the impresion that a majority of you people in corvalis could just walk around your longtime friends bodies laying on the floor,and riffle through thier stuff ,till you got what you wanted…some weed and some cash…and then drive out the back road,leaving two, what appeared to be really nice people
    dead,and hopefuly not get caught.I have yet to read any post with compasion for the woman that was tassered and then got her windpipe completley severed,or the man that was tasered repeatadly,and then had his throat slashed,we are not having any parties down here ,and a new car sounds so trivial at this point ,you all should be ashamed

    • Couldn’t agree with you more… I have read some pretty pathetic accusations. Nice to finally read some compassion in this tragic happening.

    • Friend of Sky and Mas

      Now that is just being rude DT. No one is having parties up here. That post was a misunderstanding which I responded to saying such. What we are doing is planning memorials for our friends who have died.

      As for showing compassion for the people in your community. Perhaps you missed my first post defending Jim and Norma? Or maybe you missed my second post that had said “In a situation like this I for one would be proud to call the Gunds neighbors! They did what I would hope my neighbors would do for me, and they should be commended for their efforts. They are in my thoughts and I wish them a speedy recovery.”

      It is not right to group together everyone on here who was previously friends with the people involved in this tragedy. We do not all feel the same way as those reaching for strings to prove Mas’ innocence and coming up with conspiracy theories. To say that we could walk around our longtime friends bodies laying on the floor is quite hurtful to those of us in the Corvallis community that are grieving.

      • joiningthediscussion

        Yea.. to hold our community as a whole responsible for the actions of one of our members is quite ludicrous. Obviously, none of us would act in this way and find it despicable. Everyone is surprised and was caught unaware by this action and we do not all hold the same opinions. Please stop attacking our community on a whole. Sky and Christina were part of our community too. and we are grieving deeply for all victims including the neighbors. We are people of peace as I imagine you are as well. Making broad statements about our lack of caring is short sighted and ignorant. Obviously nobody was aware of the potential for this to happen or somebody would have spoken up or have done something about it. nobody wins when evil lurks.. it’s best not to speak further negativity on the matter by painting our community as a bunch of heartless money loving killers .. it couldn’t be further from the truth. you should be ashamed of yourself

    • as someone else mentioned, Corvallis is the safest small town in America. People just don’t kill other people here. One of the latest crime reports involved escaped cows creating a road hazard, a couple of times in the same day. This community teaches peace and builds bonds between people. I know lots of people who have stated Sky and Mas were very good friends.

      People change, for sure, but inherently maintain their personality, good or bad. This is where the community here doubts the events, as they appear today, because they were from C-town and should have had each others backs.

      Imagine two people you knew to be good friends involved in this situation. Wouldn’t the description make you think there had to be another explanation? Be sure, there were many people who loved and knew both Sky and Mas in this town, trying to find the sense in this.

      Norma Gund received some pretty serious injuries and is lucky to be alive, of that there is no doubt. The account of her actions has some serious lessons to learn for all of us, number one, if a cop gives you a cell phone number and you go to check something out, get him on the line while you do it. No one, short of the police or military training are capable or practiced at responding to what was described. There actions, heroic in intent, put them in a bad situation, as reported.

      Multiple communities and families in mourning, lives taken or torn apart. It’s just tragic.

  • I get the impresion that a majority of you people in corvalis could just walk around your longtime friends bodies laying on the floor,and riffle through thier stuff ,till you got what you wanted…some weed and some cash…and then drive out the back road,leaving two, what appeared to be really nice people
    dead,and hopefuly not get caught.I have yet to read any post with compasion for the woman that was tassered and then got her windpipe completley severed,or the man that was tasered repeatadly,and then had his throat slashed,we are not having any parties down here ,and a new car sounds so trivial at this point ,you all should be ashamed

    • Couldn’t agree with you more… I have read some pretty pathetic accusations. Nice to finally read some compassion in this tragic happening.

    • Friend of Sky and Mas

      Now that is just being rude DT. No one is having parties up here. That post was a misunderstanding which I responded to saying such. What we are doing is planning memorials for our friends who have died.

      As for showing compassion for the people in your community. Perhaps you missed my first post defending Jim and Norma? Or maybe you missed my second post that had said “In a situation like this I for one would be proud to call the Gunds neighbors! They did what I would hope my neighbors would do for me, and they should be commended for their efforts. They are in my thoughts and I wish them a speedy recovery.”

      It is not right to group together everyone on here who was previously friends with the people involved in this tragedy. We do not all feel the same way as those reaching for strings to prove Mas’ innocence and coming up with conspiracy theories. To say that we could walk around our longtime friends bodies laying on the floor is quite hurtful to those of us in the Corvallis community that are grieving.

      • joiningthediscussion

        Yea.. to hold our community as a whole responsible for the actions of one of our members is quite ludicrous. Obviously, none of us would act in this way and find it despicable. Everyone is surprised and was caught unaware by this action and we do not all hold the same opinions. Please stop attacking our community on a whole. Sky and Christina were part of our community too. and we are grieving deeply for all victims including the neighbors. We are people of peace as I imagine you are as well. Making broad statements about our lack of caring is short sighted and ignorant. Obviously nobody was aware of the potential for this to happen or somebody would have spoken up or have done something about it. nobody wins when evil lurks.. it’s best not to speak further negativity on the matter by painting our community as a bunch of heartless money loving killers .. it couldn’t be further from the truth. you should be ashamed of yourself

    • as someone else mentioned, Corvallis is the safest small town in America. People just don’t kill other people here. One of the latest crime reports involved escaped cows creating a road hazard, a couple of times in the same day. This community teaches peace and builds bonds between people. I know lots of people who have stated Sky and Mas were very good friends.

      People change, for sure, but inherently maintain their personality, good or bad. This is where the community here doubts the events, as they appear today, because they were from C-town and should have had each others backs.

      Imagine two people you knew to be good friends involved in this situation. Wouldn’t the description make you think there had to be another explanation? Be sure, there were many people who loved and knew both Sky and Mas in this town, trying to find the sense in this.

      Norma Gund received some pretty serious injuries and is lucky to be alive, of that there is no doubt. The account of her actions has some serious lessons to learn for all of us, number one, if a cop gives you a cell phone number and you go to check something out, get him on the line while you do it. No one, short of the police or military training are capable or practiced at responding to what was described. There actions, heroic in intent, put them in a bad situation, as reported.

      Multiple communities and families in mourning, lives taken or torn apart. It’s just tragic.

  • He wouldnt answer his phone because he was affraid his location could be triangulated,and it would leave a trail of evidence,and why was he going to NYC and Atlanta Ga.,Did he have a job,where was he getting the money to buy new instruments.and if the Gunds hadn’t of come to the house at the time they did would of you be buying and smoking the weed he stole?!!!

    • joiningthediscussion

      This whole thing is a shame. There’s nothing that could possibly be said or done to ease the pain of both of our communities. It’s doubtful we would be on the receiving end of that deal as I said I have never seen Mas smoke pot or even drink or done either of those things with him. but that’s just my experience . Additionally, Not the majority of people in our community smoke weed and most of the ones that do are legal cardholders and with plenty of local legal growers to meet their needs in a non criminal manner. Making a purchase down there sounds like something that was done not to meet the needs of our community but to meet personal needs that we are a bit clueless about. Obviously we are all at different places here as far as the strength of our relationships with Mas and Sky and Christina but I’m quite sure not anybody including the victims and those closest to Mas could have seen this coming or obviously someone would have shut it down before it could have happened.

    • You don’t have to answer your phone for the location to be triangulated it just has to be on. A moot point cause he didn’t have a phone.

      But alas you are just pulling stuff out of thin air…

    • Mas was back East visiting his family members in NY and FLA. He lost his phone on the trip and had no phone with him when he drove to CA.

  • He wouldnt answer his phone because he was affraid his location could be triangulated,and it would leave a trail of evidence,and why was he going to NYC and Atlanta Ga.,Did he have a job,where was he getting the money to buy new instruments.and if the Gunds hadn’t of come to the house at the time they did would of you be buying and smoking the weed he stole?!!!

    • joiningthediscussion

      This whole thing is a shame. There’s nothing that could possibly be said or done to ease the pain of both of our communities. It’s doubtful we would be on the receiving end of that deal as I said I have never seen Mas smoke pot or even drink or done either of those things with him. but that’s just my experience . Additionally, Not the majority of people in our community smoke weed and most of the ones that do are legal cardholders and with plenty of local legal growers to meet their needs in a non criminal manner. Making a purchase down there sounds like something that was done not to meet the needs of our community but to meet personal needs that we are a bit clueless about. Obviously we are all at different places here as far as the strength of our relationships with Mas and Sky and Christina but I’m quite sure not anybody including the victims and those closest to Mas could have seen this coming or obviously someone would have shut it down before it could have happened.

    • You don’t have to answer your phone for the location to be triangulated it just has to be on. A moot point cause he didn’t have a phone.

      But alas you are just pulling stuff out of thin air…

    • Mas was back East visiting his family members in NY and FLA. He lost his phone on the trip and had no phone with him when he drove to CA.

  • there are a few of you that have your heads screwed on but the majority of people have said some really crazy things,that are grounded in insanity,pulled from thin air, … he was a brutal killer,my apoligies to the people that are thinking sensibly

    • You don’t have your head screwed on correctly.

      Mas didn’t have a phone, if he was trafficking it out east (which is just your assumption cause you don’t know any better) why would the community be buying it?

      Try to use facts and rational thinking instead of pulling stuff out of thin air.. k?
      thx bye

      • Is it not a felony to grow, process, and package marijuana for sale?

      • “Jenna & Mas were living in a parked schoolbus at his moms house! And she was not in the area! She was in Corvallis, trying to get ahold of Tomas, who wouldn’t answer his phone. Leave her out of this.”

        You and $%& should get together to get the story straight. As someone InCorvallis I know she isn’t here and I have seen my friends succumb to this “cult”ish obsession with conspiracy theories.

        I feel for her loss and sincerely hope that she did not have a hand in these awful events. She is a beautiful person but falsehoods and unjust cover-ups are despicable.

        • If I knew who $%& was I would ask them to kindly only put up facts instead of their incorrect guesses. I don’t have a “story” just piecing together the facts as they dribble out.

          Yeah she’s not here ATM; was she here Monday? Yes.

          Was she living in a parked schoolbus, No.

          Sorry that you’ve seen your friends succumb to an obsession with a conspiracy, perhaps if the case WERE so cut and dry and the police released the facts there wouldn’t be that obsession.

          Not sure what you think my ‘theory’ is. My only real theory is that this isn’t going to be fully investigated, because of all the vigorous hand-waving going on in this community. ‘Case closed!’ you yell. ‘No such thing as innocent until proven guilty anymore! It would be crazy to check any facts or do any testing! Only a jerk would ask any additional questions, please everyone just go home now!’

        • I’m from down in Humboldt but several of the early comments I believe indicated that the fiance was at a party playing music in Oregon with many others Sunday night. Please, everyone, take a deep breath. Don’t accuse the Gunds, the fiance or law enforcement of having a hand in these awful events without some solid evidence. It is human nature to speculate but to speculate in such an ugly way on a public forum is to potentially ruin somebody’s life. People who in the case of the Gund’s and law enforcement who were apparently doing the best they could to help deserve at least respect unless some solid evidence points in their direction—there hasn’t been any. Of course we all have questions we would like to ask. But let’s give some time for information to be checked and cross checked for accuracy.

  • there are a few of you that have your heads screwed on but the majority of people have said some really crazy things,that are grounded in insanity,pulled from thin air, … he was a brutal killer,my apoligies to the people that are thinking sensibly

    • You don’t have your head screwed on correctly.

      Mas didn’t have a phone, if he was trafficking it out east (which is just your assumption cause you don’t know any better) why would the community be buying it?

      Try to use facts and rational thinking instead of pulling stuff out of thin air.. k?
      thx bye

      • Is it not a felony to grow, process, and package marijuana for sale?

      • “Jenna & Mas were living in a parked schoolbus at his moms house! And she was not in the area! She was in Corvallis, trying to get ahold of Tomas, who wouldn’t answer his phone. Leave her out of this.”

        You and $%& should get together to get the story straight. As someone InCorvallis I know she isn’t here and I have seen my friends succumb to this “cult”ish obsession with conspiracy theories.

        I feel for her loss and sincerely hope that she did not have a hand in these awful events. She is a beautiful person but falsehoods and unjust cover-ups are despicable.

        • If I knew who $%& was I would ask them to kindly only put up facts instead of their incorrect guesses. I don’t have a “story” just piecing together the facts as they dribble out.

          Yeah she’s not here ATM; was she here Monday? Yes.

          Was she living in a parked schoolbus, No.

          Sorry that you’ve seen your friends succumb to an obsession with a conspiracy, perhaps if the case WERE so cut and dry and the police released the facts there wouldn’t be that obsession.

          Not sure what you think my ‘theory’ is. My only real theory is that this isn’t going to be fully investigated, because of all the vigorous hand-waving going on in this community. ‘Case closed!’ you yell. ‘No such thing as innocent until proven guilty anymore! It would be crazy to check any facts or do any testing! Only a jerk would ask any additional questions, please everyone just go home now!’

        • I’m from down in Humboldt but several of the early comments I believe indicated that the fiance was at a party playing music in Oregon with many others Sunday night. Please, everyone, take a deep breath. Don’t accuse the Gunds, the fiance or law enforcement of having a hand in these awful events without some solid evidence. It is human nature to speculate but to speculate in such an ugly way on a public forum is to potentially ruin somebody’s life. People who in the case of the Gund’s and law enforcement who were apparently doing the best they could to help deserve at least respect unless some solid evidence points in their direction—there hasn’t been any. Of course we all have questions we would like to ask. But let’s give some time for information to be checked and cross checked for accuracy.

  • Interesting comment from

    http://www.redding.com/news/2011/mar/17/couple-was-145unaware-unprepared/:

    “I knew both the victims and the Tomas. I spent a good deal of time working beside all of them. Sky and Kristine were incredible, understanding, and friendly people. Mas, as we all knew him, was a good friend of both Sky and Kristine. I highly things simply went “awry”, as they often fronted product to Tomas and others, if that were the only situation they would have been able to work out whatever was going on like I had seen them all do on so many other occasions. Entirely premeditated, and from the last person any of us ever expected.

    This breaks my heart into pieces.”

    Doesn’t seem like it’s a deal gone wrong…. at least from what appears to be a 1st hand commenter having worked with them all.

    • joiningthediscussion

      My first suspicion was a situation gone wrong or temper out of control . Who carries a stun gun around with them though, and a knife , and makes the same wound in all the victims . It’s pretty freaking scar!. If this was a homicidal person in the closet yet walking amongst us like a wolf in sheeps clothing; it’s difficult to think about, who or how many other people could have fallen victim to this madness. In that sense we do owe the Gunds much gratitude. I feel for them and your whole community , I’m grateful the cops involved in the chase weren’t injured on such a dangerous stretch of road at such high speeds. I don’t quite know what to think and I think alot of people here who are flinging out far stretched ideas are most likely just searching for a way to cope with this haunting sudden shift in reality .

  • Interesting comment from

    http://www.redding.com/news/2011/mar/17/couple-was-145unaware-unprepared/:

    “I knew both the victims and the Tomas. I spent a good deal of time working beside all of them. Sky and Kristine were incredible, understanding, and friendly people. Mas, as we all knew him, was a good friend of both Sky and Kristine. I highly things simply went “awry”, as they often fronted product to Tomas and others, if that were the only situation they would have been able to work out whatever was going on like I had seen them all do on so many other occasions. Entirely premeditated, and from the last person any of us ever expected.

    This breaks my heart into pieces.”

    Doesn’t seem like it’s a deal gone wrong…. at least from what appears to be a 1st hand commenter having worked with them all.

    • joiningthediscussion

      My first suspicion was a situation gone wrong or temper out of control . Who carries a stun gun around with them though, and a knife , and makes the same wound in all the victims . It’s pretty freaking scar!. If this was a homicidal person in the closet yet walking amongst us like a wolf in sheeps clothing; it’s difficult to think about, who or how many other people could have fallen victim to this madness. In that sense we do owe the Gunds much gratitude. I feel for them and your whole community , I’m grateful the cops involved in the chase weren’t injured on such a dangerous stretch of road at such high speeds. I don’t quite know what to think and I think alot of people here who are flinging out far stretched ideas are most likely just searching for a way to cope with this haunting sudden shift in reality .

  • joiningthediscussion

    My initial thought was that it was a situation gone unexpectedly out of control, a provoked temper boiling over into violence, or a drug induced craze. I’m wondering now who carries around a stun gun .. certainly not anyone I know, and chooses the same and gruesome way to kill as far as throat slitting goes. I’m suprised tasers are available to lay people – that in and of it’s self is scary. What’s really scary is that we don’t know who could have been the first or next victim and of course it’s sad that the victims were who they were. A wolf in sheeps clothing walking amongst us .. really frightening, and in that sense we have alot to be thankful for in the Gund’s actions. I think alot of the far-fetched ideas you are seeing on here are made out of desperation, people are not only grieving the loss of several friends but trying to come to terms with what appears to be a horror-story setting that could have involved any of us- it’s hard to come to terms with a reality that grossly different from the beautiful one we seek to create on a daily basis and that we thought was held sacred by a trusted friend. This is just so bizarre and disappointing and immensely disheartning. My heart goes out to those effected on a deeper level.

  • joiningthediscussion

    My initial thought was that it was a situation gone unexpectedly out of control, a provoked temper boiling over into violence, or a drug induced craze. I’m wondering now who carries around a stun gun .. certainly not anyone I know, and chooses the same and gruesome way to kill as far as throat slitting goes. I’m suprised tasers are available to lay people – that in and of it’s self is scary. What’s really scary is that we don’t know who could have been the first or next victim and of course it’s sad that the victims were who they were. A wolf in sheeps clothing walking amongst us .. really frightening, and in that sense we have alot to be thankful for in the Gund’s actions. I think alot of the far-fetched ideas you are seeing on here are made out of desperation, people are not only grieving the loss of several friends but trying to come to terms with what appears to be a horror-story setting that could have involved any of us- it’s hard to come to terms with a reality that grossly different from the beautiful one we seek to create on a daily basis and that we thought was held sacred by a trusted friend. This is just so bizarre and disappointing and immensely disheartning. My heart goes out to those effected on a deeper level.

  • I think that this will all be resolved once the feds get involved and clear up some of the more critical gaps in the tales that have been told around these crimes.

    It makes sense that the folks down south circle the wagons, MJ is a big business down there, folks in the community have admitted to being involved in the criminal aspects of same in the past. I wonder how much money passing through the local general store is ‘dirty’. Of course locals in CA say the Gunds couldn’t have been smokers or growers since they both had to pee test. (That did make me laugh for the first time in a week.)

    In the mean time I’m sure that the DEA and the DOJ are intently reading this blog. It should be interesting to watch this all unfold.

    It has been stated here that the Gunds were close neighbors of the victims. How close? Friends? Did they drop in to visit Skye and his lady? Would it have been a given that Normas prints were found in the victims home? How did Skye get along with the Gunds? We’re they neighborly? Was Jim over there helping them fix the house? Did Skye ever help Jim?

    Did the Gunds ever notice Mas visiting in the past? Perhaps the storekeeper remembers him?

    How much money was found? How much pot was found? And whats up with the rubber gloves? I’ve got a pal that works on septics, has gloves like that, and would never wear them in the car or the house.

    • Why would the feds get involved? The feds don’t investigate murders or small-time growers.

      No one is doing anything. I love all this faith that the real world is like CSI, and detectives are working around the clock on this. They aren’t. There’s no new information, and their isn’t going to be. A bunch of people are going to fill out forms, file them, and then declare it case closed. They aren’t piecing together evidence, they aren’t interviewing people, they aren’t looking into the conflicting stories, they aren’t checking phone records to confirm anyone’s stories and probably aren’t going to test any DNA. Forensics people are not going to the crime scene, the coroner isn’t talking to detectives, there are not going to be feds swooping in. This isn’t television.

      • When I say feds I’m talking IRS. Money, drugs, the fellow that runs the local store admits to being retired from the drug game. Besides, feds investigate much quieter than the cops do. Doesn’t mean they haven’t been eyeballing the bank accounts of the local police, general store, gunds et al.

        • Amil, while your points are taken, can I ask you for a moment to suppose that the Gunds are really nothing more than they appear to be–good neighbors who went to help in a storm. Nice folk who work as bus drivers and county workers. They end up getting their throats slit, their cars impounded, their lives turned upside down. As far as I know Mrs. Gund is still in the hospital incurring God knows how much debt. The owner of the Kettenpom store when faced with a murderer in the neighborhood grabbed a weapon and some other folk and rode to the rescue at considerable risk to himself. He tried to help. Now if these folk are nothing more than that imagine how it would feel to read the sentence above.

          I know your world is turned upside down. Maybe Mas isn’t the murderer, though much evidence seems to point that way. But, so far there is nothing to suggest that these folk were doing something criminal in relation to these murders. You know how badly you feel when Mas is disparaged. Imagine how these folk feel if they are as innocent as they seem. Please offer them the same courtesy as you would like extended to Mas.

    • I’m sorry but no one is going to “circle their wagons” around someone who cut
      somebody else’s throats. If you can’t trust what law enforcement and the local
      community believes then maybe you should all get together and hire a private
      investiagator . I will guarantee you though, it’s all going to boil down to one thing.

  • I think that this will all be resolved once the feds get involved and clear up some of the more critical gaps in the tales that have been told around these crimes.

    It makes sense that the folks down south circle the wagons, MJ is a big business down there, folks in the community have admitted to being involved in the criminal aspects of same in the past. I wonder how much money passing through the local general store is ‘dirty’. Of course locals in CA say the Gunds couldn’t have been smokers or growers since they both had to pee test. (That did make me laugh for the first time in a week.)

    In the mean time I’m sure that the DEA and the DOJ are intently reading this blog. It should be interesting to watch this all unfold.

    It has been stated here that the Gunds were close neighbors of the victims. How close? Friends? Did they drop in to visit Skye and his lady? Would it have been a given that Normas prints were found in the victims home? How did Skye get along with the Gunds? We’re they neighborly? Was Jim over there helping them fix the house? Did Skye ever help Jim?

    Did the Gunds ever notice Mas visiting in the past? Perhaps the storekeeper remembers him?

    How much money was found? How much pot was found? And whats up with the rubber gloves? I’ve got a pal that works on septics, has gloves like that, and would never wear them in the car or the house.

    • Why would the feds get involved? The feds don’t investigate murders or small-time growers.

      No one is doing anything. I love all this faith that the real world is like CSI, and detectives are working around the clock on this. They aren’t. There’s no new information, and their isn’t going to be. A bunch of people are going to fill out forms, file them, and then declare it case closed. They aren’t piecing together evidence, they aren’t interviewing people, they aren’t looking into the conflicting stories, they aren’t checking phone records to confirm anyone’s stories and probably aren’t going to test any DNA. Forensics people are not going to the crime scene, the coroner isn’t talking to detectives, there are not going to be feds swooping in. This isn’t television.

      • When I say feds I’m talking IRS. Money, drugs, the fellow that runs the local store admits to being retired from the drug game. Besides, feds investigate much quieter than the cops do. Doesn’t mean they haven’t been eyeballing the bank accounts of the local police, general store, gunds et al.

        • Amil, while your points are taken, can I ask you for a moment to suppose that the Gunds are really nothing more than they appear to be–good neighbors who went to help in a storm. Nice folk who work as bus drivers and county workers. They end up getting their throats slit, their cars impounded, their lives turned upside down. As far as I know Mrs. Gund is still in the hospital incurring God knows how much debt. The owner of the Kettenpom store when faced with a murderer in the neighborhood grabbed a weapon and some other folk and rode to the rescue at considerable risk to himself. He tried to help. Now if these folk are nothing more than that imagine how it would feel to read the sentence above.

          I know your world is turned upside down. Maybe Mas isn’t the murderer, though much evidence seems to point that way. But, so far there is nothing to suggest that these folk were doing something criminal in relation to these murders. You know how badly you feel when Mas is disparaged. Imagine how these folk feel if they are as innocent as they seem. Please offer them the same courtesy as you would like extended to Mas.

    • I’m sorry but no one is going to “circle their wagons” around someone who cut
      somebody else’s throats. If you can’t trust what law enforcement and the local
      community believes then maybe you should all get together and hire a private
      investiagator . I will guarantee you though, it’s all going to boil down to one thing.

  • I addmit I was being rude,but in my first post I tried to be open minded,and just relay the facts as I know them ,and when I speculated ,I addressed that as just that, a speculation, and then I get some wingnuts saying Im a hypocrite and then respond with a conspiracy theory,this isnt J.F.K.,I think of the Gunds ,thier cars are have all been confiscated,they may never be able to go into a building,without heartfelt panic,they undoubtedly will suffer from PTSD,not to mention phisical injuries that could be with them the rest of thier life and could cause life threating complications later in life.and then I hear that there is a party to raise funds to buy a car,like I said that just seems so trivial,our comunity has been turned upside down ,there will be repercussions for years,it just seemed people were showing a missplaced concern,I really do have compassion for others,I just thought I would get people in Oregon to stop saying things like”I dont think he did this”,”one act of violence does not take away from a life of pacifism and loving kindness” I will try to be more sensitive,and I do seriously feel terible about the outcome of this tragedy,for everyone involved!

    • Friend of Sky and Mas

      Thanks DT, your apology is appreciated. I can understand what you are saying about your community being turned upside down. It feels very much the same way up here. Something like this where the victim and the one accused of doing this are both a part of our community… It unfortunately has torn a big gap between friends, some who think he did it and others who think he didn’t. So the issue really should be treaded upon lightly by all no matter where we live. I mean after all we(as in your community down south and ours up north) are ALL part of the same community of our country and indeed our world. Good parts, bad parts, we have to accept them for what they are. If only this world could just be filled with compassion, love and light. Now that would be marvelous to behold. I’m sure I can speak on the behalf of our community when I say we feel your pain as I’m sure your community would say about our pain. And we would all like to see both Norma and Jim recover quickly.

  • I addmit I was being rude,but in my first post I tried to be open minded,and just relay the facts as I know them ,and when I speculated ,I addressed that as just that, a speculation, and then I get some wingnuts saying Im a hypocrite and then respond with a conspiracy theory,this isnt J.F.K.,I think of the Gunds ,thier cars are have all been confiscated,they may never be able to go into a building,without heartfelt panic,they undoubtedly will suffer from PTSD,not to mention phisical injuries that could be with them the rest of thier life and could cause life threating complications later in life.and then I hear that there is a party to raise funds to buy a car,like I said that just seems so trivial,our comunity has been turned upside down ,there will be repercussions for years,it just seemed people were showing a missplaced concern,I really do have compassion for others,I just thought I would get people in Oregon to stop saying things like”I dont think he did this”,”one act of violence does not take away from a life of pacifism and loving kindness” I will try to be more sensitive,and I do seriously feel terible about the outcome of this tragedy,for everyone involved!

    • Friend of Sky and Mas

      Thanks DT, your apology is appreciated. I can understand what you are saying about your community being turned upside down. It feels very much the same way up here. Something like this where the victim and the one accused of doing this are both a part of our community… It unfortunately has torn a big gap between friends, some who think he did it and others who think he didn’t. So the issue really should be treaded upon lightly by all no matter where we live. I mean after all we(as in your community down south and ours up north) are ALL part of the same community of our country and indeed our world. Good parts, bad parts, we have to accept them for what they are. If only this world could just be filled with compassion, love and light. Now that would be marvelous to behold. I’m sure I can speak on the behalf of our community when I say we feel your pain as I’m sure your community would say about our pain. And we would all like to see both Norma and Jim recover quickly.

  • I do not understand why you keep pointing fingers at the victims of this crime,when there was just one perpetrator!

    • joiningthediscussion

      It’s admirable for you to admit you were being rude. I think we all have had some degree of that on here and I although no excuse I do believe alot of what’s being said that is hurtful or far fetched here is all just part of the grieving process as well as fear related from such horrific circumstances. I’ve been flooded myself with overwhelming feelings that I’m not even quite sure how to deal with. Reaching out to Mas’ fiance is not an attempt to excuse any behaviors or perpetuate any denials. Until anything comes to the surface otherwise, which is highly unlikely , she was as clueless as the rest of us as to the potential for this to happen and needs all the support and love she can get in this time. Traumatic and sudden loses of loved ones , espcecially ones with circumstances this dark can wear away fast at someone and we care deeply about her and want to make sure she is emotionally and physically surrounded by love and support as to not slip into an unhealthy state of mind. We are here community and we love her – of course we’re going to find ways to try to help her and keep her uplifted- that’s what we do and many would be proud to be a part of such a supportive community. I can only hope the Gunds would receive as much love and support from their community. It is a long ways away from Corvallis and thus it is natural we would reach out where we are but that being said, maybe there is more we could and should be doing for the Gunds. Please let me know if you have any ideas and maybe we can help.

  • I do not understand why you keep pointing fingers at the victims of this crime,when there was just one perpetrator!

    • joiningthediscussion

      It’s admirable for you to admit you were being rude. I think we all have had some degree of that on here and I although no excuse I do believe alot of what’s being said that is hurtful or far fetched here is all just part of the grieving process as well as fear related from such horrific circumstances. I’ve been flooded myself with overwhelming feelings that I’m not even quite sure how to deal with. Reaching out to Mas’ fiance is not an attempt to excuse any behaviors or perpetuate any denials. Until anything comes to the surface otherwise, which is highly unlikely , she was as clueless as the rest of us as to the potential for this to happen and needs all the support and love she can get in this time. Traumatic and sudden loses of loved ones , espcecially ones with circumstances this dark can wear away fast at someone and we care deeply about her and want to make sure she is emotionally and physically surrounded by love and support as to not slip into an unhealthy state of mind. We are here community and we love her – of course we’re going to find ways to try to help her and keep her uplifted- that’s what we do and many would be proud to be a part of such a supportive community. I can only hope the Gunds would receive as much love and support from their community. It is a long ways away from Corvallis and thus it is natural we would reach out where we are but that being said, maybe there is more we could and should be doing for the Gunds. Please let me know if you have any ideas and maybe we can help.

  • I am far from an expert,but I assume mas was a runner for the couple,He most likely had bi-polar dissorder,Manic-depression ,up=high and mighty,down=self loathing.felt he was being slighted,felt he was more important in the association than they thought ,and was not given his due by the couple,and had a paranoid schizophrenic psycotic reaction ,and figgured he’d just TAKE his “fair compensation” by whatever means he deemed necessary,that is all conjecture on my part,but thats what I think

    • Your first six words are definitely correct. Schizophrenia and bipolar disorder are two completely separate disorders, and bipolar isn’t how you describe it. Can we please dispense with diagnoses of strangers by people who have gotten their psychology degrees from daytime tv?

      Also, I love how the rule used to be that you couldn’t criticize a community that had just lost some of it’s members. Guess that’s just another rule that only applies to one side.

      • RT,

        I apologize. I’m trying to moderate but the way my blog works is that if you make a comment the first time, and I okay it, then after that your comments appear with out me having to give permission. That keeps the worst of the trolls and spam from hitting my site.

        I had hoped that after the first flush of hot feelings had worn off that people would be more civil in respect to all the innocent people that are grieving from all the families. I have a job and a family. And can’t watch as closely as I would like. I have asked people to change their comments from both sides debate. Obviously, I haven’t managed to catch all the insults. Then, of course, people who are feeling insulted insult back. I’m hoping this won’t turn into a tsunami of bitter talk but that the majority of people will talk facts and not hurl insults. Anybody who wants to chime in at folk who start insulting and gently remind them to speak kindly will have my thanks. And they’ll help create a kinder world. Blessings on those of you who have done so already. Double blessings on those who have the courage to admit having lashed out in anger and who try again to speak their mind more kindly.

        • It’s not your fault, Kym, I think that you’re doing a very good job and maintaining a good tone as much as possible. It’s the Internet, most people are posting very anonymously, and they behave in a way that’s very different than they would if they were face to face with someone. And not even just because they can get away with it, but because you’re not really arguing with complete people, you’re arguing with some nameless faceless voice.

          Recriminations against either community, or lecturing people for their grieving, isn’t productive. Thanks for covering this well and trying to keep it nice.

  • I am far from an expert,but I assume mas was a runner for the couple,He most likely had bi-polar dissorder,Manic-depression ,up=high and mighty,down=self loathing.felt he was being slighted,felt he was more important in the association than they thought ,and was not given his due by the couple,and had a paranoid schizophrenic psycotic reaction ,and figgured he’d just TAKE his “fair compensation” by whatever means he deemed necessary,that is all conjecture on my part,but thats what I think

    • Your first six words are definitely correct. Schizophrenia and bipolar disorder are two completely separate disorders, and bipolar isn’t how you describe it. Can we please dispense with diagnoses of strangers by people who have gotten their psychology degrees from daytime tv?

      Also, I love how the rule used to be that you couldn’t criticize a community that had just lost some of it’s members. Guess that’s just another rule that only applies to one side.

      • RT,

        I apologize. I’m trying to moderate but the way my blog works is that if you make a comment the first time, and I okay it, then after that your comments appear with out me having to give permission. That keeps the worst of the trolls and spam from hitting my site.

        I had hoped that after the first flush of hot feelings had worn off that people would be more civil in respect to all the innocent people that are grieving from all the families. I have a job and a family. And can’t watch as closely as I would like. I have asked people to change their comments from both sides debate. Obviously, I haven’t managed to catch all the insults. Then, of course, people who are feeling insulted insult back. I’m hoping this won’t turn into a tsunami of bitter talk but that the majority of people will talk facts and not hurl insults. Anybody who wants to chime in at folk who start insulting and gently remind them to speak kindly will have my thanks. And they’ll help create a kinder world. Blessings on those of you who have done so already. Double blessings on those who have the courage to admit having lashed out in anger and who try again to speak their mind more kindly.

        • It’s not your fault, Kym, I think that you’re doing a very good job and maintaining a good tone as much as possible. It’s the Internet, most people are posting very anonymously, and they behave in a way that’s very different than they would if they were face to face with someone. And not even just because they can get away with it, but because you’re not really arguing with complete people, you’re arguing with some nameless faceless voice.

          Recriminations against either community, or lecturing people for their grieving, isn’t productive. Thanks for covering this well and trying to keep it nice.

  • Fiance here:
    I know all too well how the people in that area can be fooled by someone. I know a person up there who is well liked and everyone has always protected her in spite of proof positive that she is abusive to her children and a pathalogical liar. Even though the same people that protect her will admit that she has done some screwed up shit they still protect her to the detriment of her children because of the growers she is involved with.

    They prefer to only look at her “persona” insted of the person she really is.

  • Fiance here:
    I know all too well how the people in that area can be fooled by someone. I know a person up there who is well liked and everyone has always protected her in spite of proof positive that she is abusive to her children and a pathalogical liar. Even though the same people that protect her will admit that she has done some screwed up shit they still protect her to the detriment of her children because of the growers she is involved with.

    They prefer to only look at her “persona” insted of the person she really is.

  • Fiance here:

    See DT’s comment above mine……..you have more of those people than you will ever be willing to admit running around those hills. The person I spoke of I one of them.

    • joiningthediscussion

      There is no our town , your town, we have, you don’t have, good , bad.. whatever. We are all part of the same human community. Reflections good and bad cannot be ascribed nor possessed by a fraction of that whole. You can only control yourself.. bottom line. You strive to make that the best you can and if someone else fails.. we all weep together and try to pick up the pieces , move on , and not perpetuate the hate and negativity .. no matter how hard it might be.

  • Fiance here:

    See DT’s comment above mine……..you have more of those people than you will ever be willing to admit running around those hills. The person I spoke of I one of them.

    • joiningthediscussion

      There is no our town , your town, we have, you don’t have, good , bad.. whatever. We are all part of the same human community. Reflections good and bad cannot be ascribed nor possessed by a fraction of that whole. You can only control yourself.. bottom line. You strive to make that the best you can and if someone else fails.. we all weep together and try to pick up the pieces , move on , and not perpetuate the hate and negativity .. no matter how hard it might be.

  • try doing a little reading,Wikipedia states “there appears to be a significant overlap in the genetics of schizophrenia and bipolar disorder” as usual you speak from opinion rather than fact,or maybe its a conspiracy between wikipedia and me by the way I dont have a TV

    • Ah, so you got your degree from Wikipedia, not TV. Totally credible.

      Schizophrenic psychotic breaks do not happen suddenly–they happen over a period of weeks or months. Also, violent acts would be associated with the manic phase, not the depressive phase.

      • I wasn’t clear in my above reply, that the first sentence was referring to schizophrenia, and the second to bipolar disorder. Which are completely different disorders, although genetics studies have found that families with bipolar disorder are also more likely to contain schizrophrenics. This doesn’t mean that individuals tend to have both. They are separate disorders.

        Also, to the below post, the point of which is unclear, Dr. Amen is a well-known quack who rips people off for his silly brain scans.

        http://www.quackwatch.com/06ResearchProjects/amen.html

        • http://www.amenclinics.com/blog/3172/case-of-the-week%E2%80%94willie%E2%80%99s-head-injury/

          Case of the Week—Willie’s head injury
          « Change Your Brain, Change Your Life Foundation gala—only a few seats left!Don’t Miss Dr. Amen on the Dr. Phil show »
          Willie’s overactive cingulate

          Willie’s overactive temporal lobe
          Willie is one of my favorite patients. For his whole life, Willie had been a great guy. He got along well with everyone and had a lot of friends. He was a great student and got As throughout high school, which helped him land a college scholarship. His future was looking bright. That is, until he got into a car accident and his head collided with the dashboard.

          At first, Willie felt dazed. The next day, he felt okay so he assumed he was fine, and he went back to his normal routine. A few months later, he was behind the wheel again when a dog ran out into the street. Willie swerved to miss the dog and ended up having another accident.

          This time, he wasn’t so lucky. His head slammed into the windshield, and he had to go to the emergency room. The ER doctor informed Willie that he had suffered only a minor concussion and that it was nothing to worry about.

          Over the next few months, Willie went off to college and found that the “minor concussion” might not be such a minor injury after all. He found that his personality was changing. Willie had always been a friendly, patient, calm person in the past. But now, he was losing his temper all the time. His temper flare-ups were starting to alienate his friends and family.

          Not only that, his appetite had changed. He felt ravenously hungry all the time, and in the three months since the concussion, he had gained seventy pounds. He was so hungry that would eat everything in his dorm room, whether it belonged to him or to his college roommate.

          Eventually, his roommate got fed up with Willie eating everything and confronted him about the problem. When the roommate asked Willie to eat only the food Willie had purchased, Willie didn’t take it well.

          He felt that his roommate, who used to be his friend, was trying to hurt him by literally taking the food out of his mouth. Willie became consumed with negative, paranoid thoughts about his roommate. He started thinking that in order to protect himself, he would have to hurt this “enemy.

          One day, Willie decided to act on his thoughts. He headed to the kitchen where he took a big meat cleaver and a butcher knife. Then, he camped out near the front door waiting for his roommate to come home. Willie was planning on murdering his roommate.

          A Moment of Sanity

          Even as Willie was wrapped up in his paranoid thinking and murderous plot, there was some fraction of Willie’s brain that was still functioning properly. He thought about what he was about to do and realized that he was completely out of control.

          He dropped the knives and rushed to the telephone to call a friend for help. His friend recommended that he come to see me and gave Willie my phone number.

          When I met with Willie, he described the two car accidents and detailed the serious changes in his personality. I ordered a brain scan, which showed abnormalities. His temporal lobe was working too hard, which is associated with paranoia and violence. In addition, his cingulate area showed overactivity, which can make people get stuck on negative thoughts.

          After looking at his scans, it was immediately clear to me why Willie had been experiencing such severe personality changes. The short fuse, paranoia, and negative thinking were consistent with what I saw on the images of his brain.

          Because Willie’s problems were so severe, I prescribed a couple of medications for him. I prescribe an antiseizure medication to calm the temporal lobe and an antiobsessive antidepressant to help him get “unstuck” from all those negative thoughts he couldn’t shake off.

          Willie took his medications as directed, and in a few weeks, he began to see dramatic results. His sense of humor started to return and he was able to begin mending the rifts with his family and friends.

          Now, years after those life-changing accidents, Willie continues taking medication to control the problems with his brain. Thanks to this treatment, Willie has regained his former personality and is one of the nicest people I know.

          Willie’s experience shows just how devastating a head injury can be. It can change your personality, alter your behavior, and basically ruin your life. We all need to do a better job of protecting our brains from injury. That’s why I always encourage people to wear your seatbelt, wear a helmet when bike riding, and wear a helmet when you go skiing or snowboarding. Your brain will thank you for it.

        • RT, I certainly respect your right and opinion to ignore and to downplay Dr. Amen’s published research from the past 20 years, but looking at this objectively and rationally, there are at least twice as many people who appreciate his work than those who do not…

    • http://www.amenclinics.com/brain-science/spect-image-gallery/spect-atlas/images-of-bipolar-disorder-and-schizophrenia/

      Bipolar disorder has been characterized by increased activity across the cerebral cortex. Clinically, during the manic phase the scans often look hyperactive, especially in the lateral frontal cortex, lateral parietal lobes and lateral temporal lobes, focal increased uptake in the limbic system has also been noted. Differentiating the initial onset of bipolar disorder from schizophrenia is often a difficult task in an acutely psychotic individual. In schizophrenia SPECT findings have frequently reported decreased activity, especially in the prefrontal cortex. SPECT studies may provide helpful information in the differential diagnoses of these disorders. In addition, SPECT can provide useful information to patients to significantly improve compliance in disorders where compliance is a frequent serious problem. Here are several examples.

      Bipolar Disorder
      Sarah was fifty-three years old when she was admitted to the hospital under my care. Just the month before her family had her committed to another psychiatric hospital for delusional thinking and bizarre behavior — she had actually ripped out all the electrical wiring in her home because she heard voices coming from the walls. In addition to the above symptoms, she was barely getting any sleep, her thoughts raced wildly, and she was irritable. In the previous hospital her doctor had diagnosed her with manic-depressive disorder (a cyclical mood disorder). He had placed her on lithium (an anti-manic medication) and an anti-anxiety medication. After responding well, she was sent home. But Sarah, like Leigh Anne, did not want to believe that anything was wrong with her and she stopped taking both medications. Her position was actually fortified by some members of her family who openly told her she didn’t need pills, that doctors only prescribe them to force patients into numerous follow-up visits. Yet their advice was ill advised, for within weeks of stopping the treatment, Sarah’s bizarre behavior returned. This was when her family brought her to the hospital where I worked. When I first saw Sarah, she was extremely paranoid. Believing that everyone was trying to hurt her, she was always looking for ways to escape the hospital. Again her thoughts were delusional, she believed she had special powers and that others were trying to take them from her. At times, she also appeared very “spacey.” In an attempt to understand what was going on with her for myself, and to convince her that her problems were biological, I ordered a SPECT study.

      Carrying this out did not prove easy. Our clinic tried to scan her on three separate occasions. The first two times she ripped out the intravenous line saying we were trying to poison her. The third time was a success because her sister went with her and calmed her down by talking her through the experience. While the study revealed an overall increase in activity in the deep limbic system, I found more intensity on the left side of her scan (focal increased deep limbic uptake) and a marked patchy uptake across the cortex. In other words, some areas showed increased activity and some showed decreased. My experience told me that cyclic mood disorders often correlate with focal areas of increased activity in the deep limbic system specifically as well as a patchy uptake across the surface of the brain in general.

      For Sarah’s family, this was powerful evidence that her problems were biological, so that when she still refused medication, they were now willing to encourage her to go back on it. After she took their advice, her behavior normalized again and once I knew she was feeling better, more in control, I showed her the brain studies. Through a better understanding of the problem she was able to agree to follow-up visits and to stay on her medication until both she and I concurred that she could stop.

      Sometimes I’ll rescan a patient several months after the first time to see what difference the medication has made on the physiology of his or her brain. Although Sarah’s new study showed a vast improvement from her earlier one, I still noticed an area of increased activity in the left temporal lobe, and Sarah was still complaining of symptoms of spaciness. I changed her medication to Depakote, which is primarily used as an anti-seizure medication, but has also been used for manic-depressive disorder. Not only did her psychotic symptoms remain in remission but the spaciness disappeared as well. Five years later only a small dose of Depakote has given Sarah a normal life.

      top-down active view
      note patchy uptake throughout the cortex
      Sarah’s case illustrates one of the most clinically significant problems in people diagnosed with manic-depressive illness. This disorder is usually quite responsive to medication. The problem is that when people afflicted by the disorder improve, they feel so normal they do not believe they ever had a chronic problem to begin with. It is difficult for people to accept that they have to keep taking medication when they think they no longer have a problem. Yet, as we have seen, prematurely stopping medication actually increases their chances for relapse. Through the use of these brain studies I have been able to decrease the relapse rate of my patients by demonstrating graphically the biological nature of their disorders and the need to treat them as such. It has been a great asset to me in getting patients to cooperate in their own healing process. In addition to that, it has helped me with one other important thing: convince patient’s to stop blaming themselves for their symptoms. Here are two more sets of images of Bipolar patients taken during the manic phase of the illness.

      Ryan was a 20-year-old male who presented with symptoms of grandiosity, racing thoughts, decreased sleep, irritability and agitation. His parents reported there was a family history of Bipolar Disorder in his grandfather.

      top down surface view
      underside surface view

      left side active view
      note the marked increased patchy uptake throughout the cerebral cortex

      Carrie was a second year college student when she first began having problems. She would go days without sleeping. She began having trouble concentrating in school and stopped going to classes. She started having sexual relationships with 4 different men and she spent all of the money she had for the school year in three months. When her parents discovered the problems they brought her in for evaluation. Carrie did not feel that anything was wrong. She felt that she had just made several poor decisions, like anyone her age. Her parents felt things were not the same. She had always been a thoughtful, responsible person prior to the last several months. A scan was ordered to help evaluate the clinical situation. It revealed marked patchy uptake throughout the cortex. Lithium was very helpful for Carrie and she was able to return to school the next semester.

      3D top-down active view
      patchy increased uptake across the cortical surface

      Schizophrenia
      A 35-year-old man who had been living on the street was brought for evaluation by his mother. He had previously been diagnosed on many occassions with paranoid schizophrenia, but refused medication. His SPECT study revealed marked overall decreased activity throughout the cerebral cortex. Being able to see his own brain activity, represented by the 3D surface SPECT study, was helpful for him. He agreed to take his medication under his mother’s supervision. One month later, after significant clinical improvement on 4 mg of risperidone a repeat SPECT study was performed which showed improved overall cerebral perfusion. Being able to see the before and after SPECT studies side by side on the imaging computer monitor again was very encouraging to the patient and helped significantly with compliance.

      Paranoid Schizophrenia, before and after treatment with risperidone

      (top-down and underside surface views)

      Before Treatment After Treatment

      marked decreased activity
      throughout the cerebral cortex marked overall improvement
      throughout the cerebral cortex

  • try doing a little reading,Wikipedia states “there appears to be a significant overlap in the genetics of schizophrenia and bipolar disorder” as usual you speak from opinion rather than fact,or maybe its a conspiracy between wikipedia and me by the way I dont have a TV

    • Ah, so you got your degree from Wikipedia, not TV. Totally credible.

      Schizophrenic psychotic breaks do not happen suddenly–they happen over a period of weeks or months. Also, violent acts would be associated with the manic phase, not the depressive phase.

      • I wasn’t clear in my above reply, that the first sentence was referring to schizophrenia, and the second to bipolar disorder. Which are completely different disorders, although genetics studies have found that families with bipolar disorder are also more likely to contain schizrophrenics. This doesn’t mean that individuals tend to have both. They are separate disorders.

        Also, to the below post, the point of which is unclear, Dr. Amen is a well-known quack who rips people off for his silly brain scans.

        http://www.quackwatch.com/06ResearchProjects/amen.html

        • http://www.amenclinics.com/blog/3172/case-of-the-week%E2%80%94willie%E2%80%99s-head-injury/

          Case of the Week—Willie’s head injury
          « Change Your Brain, Change Your Life Foundation gala—only a few seats left!Don’t Miss Dr. Amen on the Dr. Phil show »
          Willie’s overactive cingulate

          Willie’s overactive temporal lobe
          Willie is one of my favorite patients. For his whole life, Willie had been a great guy. He got along well with everyone and had a lot of friends. He was a great student and got As throughout high school, which helped him land a college scholarship. His future was looking bright. That is, until he got into a car accident and his head collided with the dashboard.

          At first, Willie felt dazed. The next day, he felt okay so he assumed he was fine, and he went back to his normal routine. A few months later, he was behind the wheel again when a dog ran out into the street. Willie swerved to miss the dog and ended up having another accident.

          This time, he wasn’t so lucky. His head slammed into the windshield, and he had to go to the emergency room. The ER doctor informed Willie that he had suffered only a minor concussion and that it was nothing to worry about.

          Over the next few months, Willie went off to college and found that the “minor concussion” might not be such a minor injury after all. He found that his personality was changing. Willie had always been a friendly, patient, calm person in the past. But now, he was losing his temper all the time. His temper flare-ups were starting to alienate his friends and family.

          Not only that, his appetite had changed. He felt ravenously hungry all the time, and in the three months since the concussion, he had gained seventy pounds. He was so hungry that would eat everything in his dorm room, whether it belonged to him or to his college roommate.

          Eventually, his roommate got fed up with Willie eating everything and confronted him about the problem. When the roommate asked Willie to eat only the food Willie had purchased, Willie didn’t take it well.

          He felt that his roommate, who used to be his friend, was trying to hurt him by literally taking the food out of his mouth. Willie became consumed with negative, paranoid thoughts about his roommate. He started thinking that in order to protect himself, he would have to hurt this “enemy.

          One day, Willie decided to act on his thoughts. He headed to the kitchen where he took a big meat cleaver and a butcher knife. Then, he camped out near the front door waiting for his roommate to come home. Willie was planning on murdering his roommate.

          A Moment of Sanity

          Even as Willie was wrapped up in his paranoid thinking and murderous plot, there was some fraction of Willie’s brain that was still functioning properly. He thought about what he was about to do and realized that he was completely out of control.

          He dropped the knives and rushed to the telephone to call a friend for help. His friend recommended that he come to see me and gave Willie my phone number.

          When I met with Willie, he described the two car accidents and detailed the serious changes in his personality. I ordered a brain scan, which showed abnormalities. His temporal lobe was working too hard, which is associated with paranoia and violence. In addition, his cingulate area showed overactivity, which can make people get stuck on negative thoughts.

          After looking at his scans, it was immediately clear to me why Willie had been experiencing such severe personality changes. The short fuse, paranoia, and negative thinking were consistent with what I saw on the images of his brain.

          Because Willie’s problems were so severe, I prescribed a couple of medications for him. I prescribe an antiseizure medication to calm the temporal lobe and an antiobsessive antidepressant to help him get “unstuck” from all those negative thoughts he couldn’t shake off.

          Willie took his medications as directed, and in a few weeks, he began to see dramatic results. His sense of humor started to return and he was able to begin mending the rifts with his family and friends.

          Now, years after those life-changing accidents, Willie continues taking medication to control the problems with his brain. Thanks to this treatment, Willie has regained his former personality and is one of the nicest people I know.

          Willie’s experience shows just how devastating a head injury can be. It can change your personality, alter your behavior, and basically ruin your life. We all need to do a better job of protecting our brains from injury. That’s why I always encourage people to wear your seatbelt, wear a helmet when bike riding, and wear a helmet when you go skiing or snowboarding. Your brain will thank you for it.

        • RT, I certainly respect your right and opinion to ignore and to downplay Dr. Amen’s published research from the past 20 years, but looking at this objectively and rationally, there are at least twice as many people who appreciate his work than those who do not…

    • http://www.amenclinics.com/brain-science/spect-image-gallery/spect-atlas/images-of-bipolar-disorder-and-schizophrenia/

      Bipolar disorder has been characterized by increased activity across the cerebral cortex. Clinically, during the manic phase the scans often look hyperactive, especially in the lateral frontal cortex, lateral parietal lobes and lateral temporal lobes, focal increased uptake in the limbic system has also been noted. Differentiating the initial onset of bipolar disorder from schizophrenia is often a difficult task in an acutely psychotic individual. In schizophrenia SPECT findings have frequently reported decreased activity, especially in the prefrontal cortex. SPECT studies may provide helpful information in the differential diagnoses of these disorders. In addition, SPECT can provide useful information to patients to significantly improve compliance in disorders where compliance is a frequent serious problem. Here are several examples.

      Bipolar Disorder
      Sarah was fifty-three years old when she was admitted to the hospital under my care. Just the month before her family had her committed to another psychiatric hospital for delusional thinking and bizarre behavior — she had actually ripped out all the electrical wiring in her home because she heard voices coming from the walls. In addition to the above symptoms, she was barely getting any sleep, her thoughts raced wildly, and she was irritable. In the previous hospital her doctor had diagnosed her with manic-depressive disorder (a cyclical mood disorder). He had placed her on lithium (an anti-manic medication) and an anti-anxiety medication. After responding well, she was sent home. But Sarah, like Leigh Anne, did not want to believe that anything was wrong with her and she stopped taking both medications. Her position was actually fortified by some members of her family who openly told her she didn’t need pills, that doctors only prescribe them to force patients into numerous follow-up visits. Yet their advice was ill advised, for within weeks of stopping the treatment, Sarah’s bizarre behavior returned. This was when her family brought her to the hospital where I worked. When I first saw Sarah, she was extremely paranoid. Believing that everyone was trying to hurt her, she was always looking for ways to escape the hospital. Again her thoughts were delusional, she believed she had special powers and that others were trying to take them from her. At times, she also appeared very “spacey.” In an attempt to understand what was going on with her for myself, and to convince her that her problems were biological, I ordered a SPECT study.

      Carrying this out did not prove easy. Our clinic tried to scan her on three separate occasions. The first two times she ripped out the intravenous line saying we were trying to poison her. The third time was a success because her sister went with her and calmed her down by talking her through the experience. While the study revealed an overall increase in activity in the deep limbic system, I found more intensity on the left side of her scan (focal increased deep limbic uptake) and a marked patchy uptake across the cortex. In other words, some areas showed increased activity and some showed decreased. My experience told me that cyclic mood disorders often correlate with focal areas of increased activity in the deep limbic system specifically as well as a patchy uptake across the surface of the brain in general.

      For Sarah’s family, this was powerful evidence that her problems were biological, so that when she still refused medication, they were now willing to encourage her to go back on it. After she took their advice, her behavior normalized again and once I knew she was feeling better, more in control, I showed her the brain studies. Through a better understanding of the problem she was able to agree to follow-up visits and to stay on her medication until both she and I concurred that she could stop.

      Sometimes I’ll rescan a patient several months after the first time to see what difference the medication has made on the physiology of his or her brain. Although Sarah’s new study showed a vast improvement from her earlier one, I still noticed an area of increased activity in the left temporal lobe, and Sarah was still complaining of symptoms of spaciness. I changed her medication to Depakote, which is primarily used as an anti-seizure medication, but has also been used for manic-depressive disorder. Not only did her psychotic symptoms remain in remission but the spaciness disappeared as well. Five years later only a small dose of Depakote has given Sarah a normal life.

      top-down active view
      note patchy uptake throughout the cortex
      Sarah’s case illustrates one of the most clinically significant problems in people diagnosed with manic-depressive illness. This disorder is usually quite responsive to medication. The problem is that when people afflicted by the disorder improve, they feel so normal they do not believe they ever had a chronic problem to begin with. It is difficult for people to accept that they have to keep taking medication when they think they no longer have a problem. Yet, as we have seen, prematurely stopping medication actually increases their chances for relapse. Through the use of these brain studies I have been able to decrease the relapse rate of my patients by demonstrating graphically the biological nature of their disorders and the need to treat them as such. It has been a great asset to me in getting patients to cooperate in their own healing process. In addition to that, it has helped me with one other important thing: convince patient’s to stop blaming themselves for their symptoms. Here are two more sets of images of Bipolar patients taken during the manic phase of the illness.

      Ryan was a 20-year-old male who presented with symptoms of grandiosity, racing thoughts, decreased sleep, irritability and agitation. His parents reported there was a family history of Bipolar Disorder in his grandfather.

      top down surface view
      underside surface view

      left side active view
      note the marked increased patchy uptake throughout the cerebral cortex

      Carrie was a second year college student when she first began having problems. She would go days without sleeping. She began having trouble concentrating in school and stopped going to classes. She started having sexual relationships with 4 different men and she spent all of the money she had for the school year in three months. When her parents discovered the problems they brought her in for evaluation. Carrie did not feel that anything was wrong. She felt that she had just made several poor decisions, like anyone her age. Her parents felt things were not the same. She had always been a thoughtful, responsible person prior to the last several months. A scan was ordered to help evaluate the clinical situation. It revealed marked patchy uptake throughout the cortex. Lithium was very helpful for Carrie and she was able to return to school the next semester.

      3D top-down active view
      patchy increased uptake across the cortical surface

      Schizophrenia
      A 35-year-old man who had been living on the street was brought for evaluation by his mother. He had previously been diagnosed on many occassions with paranoid schizophrenia, but refused medication. His SPECT study revealed marked overall decreased activity throughout the cerebral cortex. Being able to see his own brain activity, represented by the 3D surface SPECT study, was helpful for him. He agreed to take his medication under his mother’s supervision. One month later, after significant clinical improvement on 4 mg of risperidone a repeat SPECT study was performed which showed improved overall cerebral perfusion. Being able to see the before and after SPECT studies side by side on the imaging computer monitor again was very encouraging to the patient and helped significantly with compliance.

      Paranoid Schizophrenia, before and after treatment with risperidone

      (top-down and underside surface views)

      Before Treatment After Treatment

      marked decreased activity
      throughout the cerebral cortex marked overall improvement
      throughout the cerebral cortex

  • belive me, absolutley no hard feelings. Im sure we are all more the same , than we are all different ,most of us are in a similar boat .and I do appriciate your openmindedness ,and all of your circles willingness to make a better world is commendable .I am an old cinic , a loner,I have my education under my belt,I already own my homestead.most of you are younger than I,we have slightly different perspectives because of age.I have chalanged your community,as ours has been chalanged.I spoke out of frustation,but,at the same time, was also trying to make a point.I can tell most of you are very good people,both communities have been wounded,with yours,taking a hard hit,please ,lets all try to heal from this!

  • belive me, absolutley no hard feelings. Im sure we are all more the same , than we are all different ,most of us are in a similar boat .and I do appriciate your openmindedness ,and all of your circles willingness to make a better world is commendable .I am an old cinic , a loner,I have my education under my belt,I already own my homestead.most of you are younger than I,we have slightly different perspectives because of age.I have chalanged your community,as ours has been chalanged.I spoke out of frustation,but,at the same time, was also trying to make a point.I can tell most of you are very good people,both communities have been wounded,with yours,taking a hard hit,please ,lets all try to heal from this!

  • joiningthediscussion

    @ K. Store Joiningthediscussion
    March 23rd, 2011 at 10:43
    @ K. Store- I said WAA one of our best and if you’ve been following my threads you wouldn’t be singling out that statement without a reference to every other thing I’ve said – grief expressed and shock at this unknowingly differencein character -that we had no way of knowing and had never been expresse before- that’s just really rude to assume that we are fools b/c we thought someone was the goodness they expressed- read more closely before you say something so hurtful about the quality of the people of our community – one person will never be able to represent all of us. that was a really sucky thing to say and especially disappointing from a community buisness owner

  • joiningthediscussion

    @ K. Store Joiningthediscussion
    March 23rd, 2011 at 10:43
    @ K. Store- I said WAA one of our best and if you’ve been following my threads you wouldn’t be singling out that statement without a reference to every other thing I’ve said – grief expressed and shock at this unknowingly differencein character -that we had no way of knowing and had never been expresse before- that’s just really rude to assume that we are fools b/c we thought someone was the goodness they expressed- read more closely before you say something so hurtful about the quality of the people of our community – one person will never be able to represent all of us. that was a really sucky thing to say and especially disappointing from a community buisness owner

  • joiningthediscussion

    @ K. Store- I said WAS one of our best and if you’ve been following my threads you wouldn’t be singling out that statement without a reference to every other thing I’ve said – grief expressed and shock at this unknowingly differencein character -that we had no way of knowing and had never been expresse before- that’s just really rude to assume that we are fools b/c we thought someone was the goodness they expressed- read more closely before you say something so hurtful about the quality of the people of our community – one person will never be able to represent all of us. that was a really sucky thing to say and especially disappointing from a community buisness owner

  • joiningthediscussion

    @ K. Store- I said WAS one of our best and if you’ve been following my threads you wouldn’t be singling out that statement without a reference to every other thing I’ve said – grief expressed and shock at this unknowingly differencein character -that we had no way of knowing and had never been expresse before- that’s just really rude to assume that we are fools b/c we thought someone was the goodness they expressed- read more closely before you say something so hurtful about the quality of the people of our community – one person will never be able to represent all of us. that was a really sucky thing to say and especially disappointing from a community buisness owner

  • Dear everyone,

    I know from personal experience that when a murder happens the circle of pain and ugliness keeps growing unless everyone–EVERYONE–even those who have been injured and misused, tries to be kind and imagine the pain of the other person. (I’m going to repeat a few things I’ve said earlier here as this seems to be where most of the conversations are happening.)

    For Friends of Mas, can I ask you for a moment to suppose that the Gunds are really nothing more than they appear to be–good neighbors who went to help in a storm. Nice folk who work as bus drivers and county workers. They end up getting their throats slit, their cars impounded, their lives turned upside down. As far as I know Mrs. Gund is still in the hospital incurring God knows how much debt. The owner of the Kettenpom store when faced with a murderer in the neighborhood grabbed a weapon and some other folk and rode to the rescue at considerable risk to himself. He tried to help. Now if these folk are nothing more than that imagine how it would feel to hear theories insinuating that they are criminals.

    I know your world is turned upside down. Maybe Mas isn’t the murderer, though much evidence seems to point that way. But, so far there is nothing to suggest that these folk were doing something criminal in relation to these murders. You know how badly you feel when Mas is disparaged. Imagine how these folk feel if they are as innocent as they seem. Please offer them the same courtesy as you would like extended to Mas.

    For those who believe Mas is the murderer, imagine for a moment that a beloved family member or friend, (one you trusted enough to watch you kids, one who helped you in a time of trouble, one who made you laugh) was accused of brutal murders. Your whole world would be turned upside down. You wouldn’t believe it. You would want to believe unbelievable things in order to restore your belief in your family member. You might strike out at innocent strangers hoping somehow that they were guilty so your loved one could be innocent. In short, you might not always be kind. Try to be kind to them. Try to extend them the courtesy of listening to their theories even when you know facts that they don’t that make their theories seem absurd to you.

    I’m not saying don’t question and don’t state your opinion but just be kind please.

  • Dear everyone,

    I know from personal experience that when a murder happens the circle of pain and ugliness keeps growing unless everyone–EVERYONE–even those who have been injured and misused, tries to be kind and imagine the pain of the other person. (I’m going to repeat a few things I’ve said earlier here as this seems to be where most of the conversations are happening.)

    For Friends of Mas, can I ask you for a moment to suppose that the Gunds are really nothing more than they appear to be–good neighbors who went to help in a storm. Nice folk who work as bus drivers and county workers. They end up getting their throats slit, their cars impounded, their lives turned upside down. As far as I know Mrs. Gund is still in the hospital incurring God knows how much debt. The owner of the Kettenpom store when faced with a murderer in the neighborhood grabbed a weapon and some other folk and rode to the rescue at considerable risk to himself. He tried to help. Now if these folk are nothing more than that imagine how it would feel to hear theories insinuating that they are criminals.

    I know your world is turned upside down. Maybe Mas isn’t the murderer, though much evidence seems to point that way. But, so far there is nothing to suggest that these folk were doing something criminal in relation to these murders. You know how badly you feel when Mas is disparaged. Imagine how these folk feel if they are as innocent as they seem. Please offer them the same courtesy as you would like extended to Mas.

    For those who believe Mas is the murderer, imagine for a moment that a beloved family member or friend, (one you trusted enough to watch you kids, one who helped you in a time of trouble, one who made you laugh) was accused of brutal murders. Your whole world would be turned upside down. You wouldn’t believe it. You would want to believe unbelievable things in order to restore your belief in your family member. You might strike out at innocent strangers hoping somehow that they were guilty so your loved one could be innocent. In short, you might not always be kind. Try to be kind to them. Try to extend them the courtesy of listening to their theories even when you know facts that they don’t that make their theories seem absurd to you.

    I’m not saying don’t question and don’t state your opinion but just be kind please.

  • Whitney E. Eads

    My heart breaks…for the victims…for humanity…for our small towns…for confusion…for misunderstandings. The ending to this sad tale is a script so often read. Terribly tragic and no way to rewind. We must all remember once momentum begins to stop it is often impossible. The momentum to steal, fight, disagree, hate, love and MURDER is like a train out of control. In our rural communities crimes occur and haunt us for a lifetime. We know our neighbors, often for many, many years, in a larger population often crimes go unnoticed or are rapidly forgotten when the next incident occurs. Having worked for a local medical marijuana doctor for many years I do not think marijuana is the sole cause for a persons bad behavior, nor should it receive the blame. Crimes are committed without marijuana much more then they are. Please all of us remember what you cannot take back and have patience. Rest in peace Kristine and Sky I am so sorry that the momentum could not be stopped that afternoon. Please everyone think before YOU act, what will be the ultimate impact of you action?

  • Whitney E. Eads

    My heart breaks…for the victims…for humanity…for our small towns…for confusion…for misunderstandings. The ending to this sad tale is a script so often read. Terribly tragic and no way to rewind. We must all remember once momentum begins to stop it is often impossible. The momentum to steal, fight, disagree, hate, love and MURDER is like a train out of control. In our rural communities crimes occur and haunt us for a lifetime. We know our neighbors, often for many, many years, in a larger population often crimes go unnoticed or are rapidly forgotten when the next incident occurs. Having worked for a local medical marijuana doctor for many years I do not think marijuana is the sole cause for a persons bad behavior, nor should it receive the blame. Crimes are committed without marijuana much more then they are. Please all of us remember what you cannot take back and have patience. Rest in peace Kristine and Sky I am so sorry that the momentum could not be stopped that afternoon. Please everyone think before YOU act, what will be the ultimate impact of you action?

  • I am Kristine’s aunt, her father was my brother. I have been reading all the comments here and I guess I cannot even begin to understand your coulture and what everyday life is like there.

    From what I have read, not sure what is true and what is not true, it seems obvious to me that the reason for this crime was money. Marijuana was certainly involved as an indirect reason because marijuana equates to money, probably an enormous amount of money. ( It could have been diamonds as they could equate to money also. ) In this situation it was marijuana. I am sure everyone has heard the saying that “The love of money is the root of all evil”. This was absolutely evil. Money seems like a logical motive. It is also obvious to me that someone knows more than what they are saying. PLEASE say what you know and do the right thing. Holding back information to protect someone or because they are one of your own is as bad as committing the crime yourself.

    We are all devasted and will lay Kristine to rest this weekend with heavy hearts
    and no peace.

    • Friend Twice Removed

      Aunt Cor; I only know relatives of the Gunds and have been following the blogs to gather information on how they are. Throughout my readings I have grown a wonderful fondness for your neice. Her life has touched my spirit. She seemed like a woman filled to the brim with love. You are blessed to have the sweet memories of her.

      As time passes remember to laugh for Kristina
      remember to love for Kristina
      you are a spirit she left behind to carry her legacy.

      I hope you get all the answers that will help you heal.
      embracing you….LJ

    • Aunt Cor, may peace be with you, your family, and with Kristine’s friends. One of Kristine’s favorite verses from the Bhagavad Gita which she spoke to me about when we were at Mount Madonna Center was the following from The Second Teaching or chapter 2, verses 18-20;22-24:

      Our bodies are known to end,
      but the embodied self is enduring, indestructable, and immeasurable…

      He who thinks this self a killer
      and he who thinks it killed,
      both fail to understand;
      it does not kill, nor is it killed.

      It is not born,
      it does not die;
      having been,
      it will never not be;
      unborn, enduring,
      constant, and primordial,
      it is not killed
      when the body is killed.

      As a man discards
      worn-out clothes
      to put on
      new and different ones,
      so the embodied self
      discards its worn out bodies
      to take on other new ones.

      Weapons do not cut it,
      fire does not burn it,
      waters do not wet it,
      wind does not wither it.

      It cannot be cut or burned;
      It cannot be wet or withered;
      it is enduring, all-pervasive,
      fixed, immovable, and timeless.

      • Friend of Sky and Mas

        Jim – That is beautiful!!! Thanks for sharing 🙂

        • You’re welcome…I believe Kristine would hope that her family and friends are able to find some consolation and relief during these testing times… : )

    • As a community no one is going to protect anyone who has cut people’s throats!!!
      Apparently you haven’t read all the comments or you wouldn’t be pointing fingers
      at all the people who happen to live around the crime scene. Law enforcement
      is not looking any further than the man that was running from them when they
      wanted him to pull over. I’m sorry but wer’e not a bundh of immoral idiots here!
      And not everyone grows marijuana that lives in this area. I am so sorry for your
      loss but we almost lost two fine people also. I resent your accusations. Why
      don’t all you nay sayers hire a private investiagator if you can’t believe law enforcement and what the community has to say. And I’m sure if this place was
      soooo terrible your niece would never have lived here to begin with.

      • I want to repeat my comment.

        People on all sides are hurting. If they lash out, try and stop the pain from the murders from spreading by pointing out your concerns kindly.

      • SL,

        your response is not only insulting to me, but ignorant. I did not point any fingers or accuse anyone in particular…I just said if someone knew something which is usually the case to come forward. I never said anyone was an immoral idiot, you did. I also did not say everyone grows marijuana there. The fact that you ALMOST lost two fine people is a lot different than losing someone forever. I assume you are talking about the neighbors, I was not. I was talking about anyone who knew something about the crime who lived anywhere, it could have been Oregon or California or New York or anywhere else. I am not a nay sayer, I am not jumping on any bandwagon.
        I also never said it was terrible there ..you said that.
        You obviously put your own spin on what I said…your perception is your realty and mine is mine. Your lack of sensitivity is appalling and sad.

        • I in no way want to add to your and your family’s pain but I know personally that one of the horrors of a murder is the ripples of anger and rage and pain that spread out from it. The only way to stop that cycle or at least slow it down a little is to speak kindly even when you feel it is undeserved.

          • Kym,

            You are right. I have never even been on a blog before. I guess I was totally shocked at the response, I should have replied in a different way, but honestly I guess I just let the response get to me and should have ignored it.
            Most of the information that we know have come from this site, so thank you. However going forward I am going to discontinue reading this blog as all it is causing is more heartbreak and tears.

            Thank you again Kym….I did appreciate the opportunity to say what I was bothering me and what I was thinking. You seem like a very nice person. Take care. Aunt Cor

            • Aunt Cor,
              I’m not sure if you will ever read this but I want to say this anyway. Waiting for information that never comes (or seems never to come) about one of the most important things that has ever happened in your family can make you rage as you have never raged before. I’m sure the police are doing what they think is best but I don’t. I don’t think keeping information from the community and especially the family is helpful. One of the ugly things that happens is that people grow suspicious of others. I don’t understand why a website on each murder couldn’t be put up with the facts of the case (maybe keeping some things private that they need to use identify that someone is the actual murderer) but as a whole laying out a timeline and what they know for sure. Then they could put tip line up for people to call anonymously. Then instead of suspicion and rumor, facts would be available for folk to see and maybe realize that they had an important piece of information to add.

              I am so sorry for your family’s pain. Everyone who knew Kristine speaks of her as very sweet. You were lucky to have had her. I’m so sorry for the incredible loss of such a beautiful lady.

        • I agree with aunt Cor, whoever knew what caused Tomas go to Kristine’s house on that day should tell the police. I believe that by acting silent to protect your friend is as bad as commit the crime. Kristine family needs closure. To just lose your loved one without knowing what happen is the worst thing.
          I know that at least two people in Tomas’ life know that Tomas was going to Kristine’s house for something, whatever altercations they had.
          We need to know.

      • Your response to someone who has lost a loved one is appalling.

        The fact is, law enforcement has decided that this is all wrapped up and are not even talking to the families, who want more information. The local police should show more consideration to the families of the victims instead of ignoring them. The police have tried to just release snippets of evidence that point in the direction that would make their job easier so they don’t have to investigate this any further. I believe that’s one reason the sheriff has ordered everyone not to talk to the media–they are worried that if certain contradictory bits of evidence become public, there will be more pressure on them to actually figure out what happened.

        But the families DO want more of an explanation than the sketchy picture the police are satisfied with, because the story as it is is so strange and hard to explain. And to attack and insult the families because they would like the police to do their jobs is completely uncalled-for.

        • We tend to think of ourselves as one big homogeneous culture but each group has its own beliefs, traditions, and behaviors. From past experience, the police seem to believe that giving people information can harm an investigation. I don’t know for sure but my guess is that they aren’t doing much different here than they do normally.
          (RT, I know how frustrating this experience can be but even when we think someone has behaved badly, please be gentle.)

          • Friend Twice Removed

            It has only been 2 weeks since this tragedy happened. My daughter is a toxicologist and she said it takes at LEAST 2-weeks for reports. With that said, I would say be patient, allow the system to work, and if you don’t get clear answers than contact a investigative news agency like Chris Komo at 20/20.

            Does anyone know how the Gunds are doing?

        • I have a tendency to agree that law enforcement sometimes hold their cards a little too close to their chests. They fear that if information gets out there that nobody should know they won’t know the guilty from the innocent. Sometimes they can ferret out the guilty because they know things that was not public knowledge.

          However, in a lot of cases it is a big mistake to withhold information. In the case of the “Unabomber”, Ted Kaczynski, all he wanted was his “manifesto” to be printed, and he continued to kill people because it wasn’t. When they finally agreed to print it, numerous people recognized who it was, he was caught and arrested.

          I really feel that a little bit more information from law enforcement wouldn’t hurt. The “ilk” sometimes know more than law enforcement.

  • I am Kristine’s aunt, her father was my brother. I have been reading all the comments here and I guess I cannot even begin to understand your coulture and what everyday life is like there.

    From what I have read, not sure what is true and what is not true, it seems obvious to me that the reason for this crime was money. Marijuana was certainly involved as an indirect reason because marijuana equates to money, probably an enormous amount of money. ( It could have been diamonds as they could equate to money also. ) In this situation it was marijuana. I am sure everyone has heard the saying that “The love of money is the root of all evil”. This was absolutely evil. Money seems like a logical motive. It is also obvious to me that someone knows more than what they are saying. PLEASE say what you know and do the right thing. Holding back information to protect someone or because they are one of your own is as bad as committing the crime yourself.

    We are all devasted and will lay Kristine to rest this weekend with heavy hearts
    and no peace.

    • Friend Twice Removed

      Aunt Cor; I only know relatives of the Gunds and have been following the blogs to gather information on how they are. Throughout my readings I have grown a wonderful fondness for your neice. Her life has touched my spirit. She seemed like a woman filled to the brim with love. You are blessed to have the sweet memories of her.

      As time passes remember to laugh for Kristina
      remember to love for Kristina
      you are a spirit she left behind to carry her legacy.

      I hope you get all the answers that will help you heal.
      embracing you….LJ

    • Aunt Cor, may peace be with you, your family, and with Kristine’s friends. One of Kristine’s favorite verses from the Bhagavad Gita which she spoke to me about when we were at Mount Madonna Center was the following from The Second Teaching or chapter 2, verses 18-20;22-24:

      Our bodies are known to end,
      but the embodied self is enduring, indestructable, and immeasurable…

      He who thinks this self a killer
      and he who thinks it killed,
      both fail to understand;
      it does not kill, nor is it killed.

      It is not born,
      it does not die;
      having been,
      it will never not be;
      unborn, enduring,
      constant, and primordial,
      it is not killed
      when the body is killed.

      As a man discards
      worn-out clothes
      to put on
      new and different ones,
      so the embodied self
      discards its worn out bodies
      to take on other new ones.

      Weapons do not cut it,
      fire does not burn it,
      waters do not wet it,
      wind does not wither it.

      It cannot be cut or burned;
      It cannot be wet or withered;
      it is enduring, all-pervasive,
      fixed, immovable, and timeless.

      • Friend of Sky and Mas

        Jim – That is beautiful!!! Thanks for sharing 🙂

        • You’re welcome…I believe Kristine would hope that her family and friends are able to find some consolation and relief during these testing times… : )

    • As a community no one is going to protect anyone who has cut people’s throats!!!
      Apparently you haven’t read all the comments or you wouldn’t be pointing fingers
      at all the people who happen to live around the crime scene. Law enforcement
      is not looking any further than the man that was running from them when they
      wanted him to pull over. I’m sorry but wer’e not a bundh of immoral idiots here!
      And not everyone grows marijuana that lives in this area. I am so sorry for your
      loss but we almost lost two fine people also. I resent your accusations. Why
      don’t all you nay sayers hire a private investiagator if you can’t believe law enforcement and what the community has to say. And I’m sure if this place was
      soooo terrible your niece would never have lived here to begin with.

      • I want to repeat my comment.

        People on all sides are hurting. If they lash out, try and stop the pain from the murders from spreading by pointing out your concerns kindly.

      • SL,

        your response is not only insulting to me, but ignorant. I did not point any fingers or accuse anyone in particular…I just said if someone knew something which is usually the case to come forward. I never said anyone was an immoral idiot, you did. I also did not say everyone grows marijuana there. The fact that you ALMOST lost two fine people is a lot different than losing someone forever. I assume you are talking about the neighbors, I was not. I was talking about anyone who knew something about the crime who lived anywhere, it could have been Oregon or California or New York or anywhere else. I am not a nay sayer, I am not jumping on any bandwagon.
        I also never said it was terrible there ..you said that.
        You obviously put your own spin on what I said…your perception is your realty and mine is mine. Your lack of sensitivity is appalling and sad.

        • I in no way want to add to your and your family’s pain but I know personally that one of the horrors of a murder is the ripples of anger and rage and pain that spread out from it. The only way to stop that cycle or at least slow it down a little is to speak kindly even when you feel it is undeserved.

          • Kym,

            You are right. I have never even been on a blog before. I guess I was totally shocked at the response, I should have replied in a different way, but honestly I guess I just let the response get to me and should have ignored it.
            Most of the information that we know have come from this site, so thank you. However going forward I am going to discontinue reading this blog as all it is causing is more heartbreak and tears.

            Thank you again Kym….I did appreciate the opportunity to say what I was bothering me and what I was thinking. You seem like a very nice person. Take care. Aunt Cor

            • Aunt Cor,
              I’m not sure if you will ever read this but I want to say this anyway. Waiting for information that never comes (or seems never to come) about one of the most important things that has ever happened in your family can make you rage as you have never raged before. I’m sure the police are doing what they think is best but I don’t. I don’t think keeping information from the community and especially the family is helpful. One of the ugly things that happens is that people grow suspicious of others. I don’t understand why a website on each murder couldn’t be put up with the facts of the case (maybe keeping some things private that they need to use identify that someone is the actual murderer) but as a whole laying out a timeline and what they know for sure. Then they could put tip line up for people to call anonymously. Then instead of suspicion and rumor, facts would be available for folk to see and maybe realize that they had an important piece of information to add.

              I am so sorry for your family’s pain. Everyone who knew Kristine speaks of her as very sweet. You were lucky to have had her. I’m so sorry for the incredible loss of such a beautiful lady.

        • I agree with aunt Cor, whoever knew what caused Tomas go to Kristine’s house on that day should tell the police. I believe that by acting silent to protect your friend is as bad as commit the crime. Kristine family needs closure. To just lose your loved one without knowing what happen is the worst thing.
          I know that at least two people in Tomas’ life know that Tomas was going to Kristine’s house for something, whatever altercations they had.
          We need to know.

      • Your response to someone who has lost a loved one is appalling.

        The fact is, law enforcement has decided that this is all wrapped up and are not even talking to the families, who want more information. The local police should show more consideration to the families of the victims instead of ignoring them. The police have tried to just release snippets of evidence that point in the direction that would make their job easier so they don’t have to investigate this any further. I believe that’s one reason the sheriff has ordered everyone not to talk to the media–they are worried that if certain contradictory bits of evidence become public, there will be more pressure on them to actually figure out what happened.

        But the families DO want more of an explanation than the sketchy picture the police are satisfied with, because the story as it is is so strange and hard to explain. And to attack and insult the families because they would like the police to do their jobs is completely uncalled-for.

        • We tend to think of ourselves as one big homogeneous culture but each group has its own beliefs, traditions, and behaviors. From past experience, the police seem to believe that giving people information can harm an investigation. I don’t know for sure but my guess is that they aren’t doing much different here than they do normally.
          (RT, I know how frustrating this experience can be but even when we think someone has behaved badly, please be gentle.)

          • Friend Twice Removed

            It has only been 2 weeks since this tragedy happened. My daughter is a toxicologist and she said it takes at LEAST 2-weeks for reports. With that said, I would say be patient, allow the system to work, and if you don’t get clear answers than contact a investigative news agency like Chris Komo at 20/20.

            Does anyone know how the Gunds are doing?

        • I have a tendency to agree that law enforcement sometimes hold their cards a little too close to their chests. They fear that if information gets out there that nobody should know they won’t know the guilty from the innocent. Sometimes they can ferret out the guilty because they know things that was not public knowledge.

          However, in a lot of cases it is a big mistake to withhold information. In the case of the “Unabomber”, Ted Kaczynski, all he wanted was his “manifesto” to be printed, and he continued to kill people because it wasn’t. When they finally agreed to print it, numerous people recognized who it was, he was caught and arrested.

          I really feel that a little bit more information from law enforcement wouldn’t hurt. The “ilk” sometimes know more than law enforcement.

  • aunt cor,I belive the culprit has gotten his just ,I wish things could have ended differently,and they almost did ,thanks to the selfless courage of the Gunds ,I think most touched by this would gladly send you a little bit of our strength,please consider it sent,please be strong

  • aunt cor,I belive the culprit has gotten his just ,I wish things could have ended differently,and they almost did ,thanks to the selfless courage of the Gunds ,I think most touched by this would gladly send you a little bit of our strength,please consider it sent,please be strong

  • Though I am not part of either community, I grieve for them. I do know some of the people involved and can only speak to my particular experiences as being positive ones. If people have good things to say about their experiences with others involved, I have no reason not to believe them as well.

    Wild speculation, conspiracy theories, knee jerk reactions, and vicious insults on any side do nothing to promote the well being of either community; nor does it bring the answers so many are seeking. I believe everyone has the right to speak their mind, but I would hope that we could do so compassionately and with common sense.

    To blame or suggest a massive conspiracy between the Gunds, store keeper, and an entire community – seems to further corrupt the story and send baseless rumors flying, as well as alienate folks who may be able to shed more light on the matter. In your passion to defend and protect, you may not realize that you could be doing more harm to the people you love. I hope that you might tread lightly.

    On the flip side, for the other side to do the same and suggest that family members have info or involvement in this horrible tragedy, is reckless and dangerous. The alleged actions of the suspect can only be assumed to be his alone, all the choices made belong to him individually.

    It is good to question, but please keep in mind the families and loved ones are grieving in ways we can not comprehend, communities are emotionally battered and I for one, wish we could all afford some kindness and respect.

  • Though I am not part of either community, I grieve for them. I do know some of the people involved and can only speak to my particular experiences as being positive ones. If people have good things to say about their experiences with others involved, I have no reason not to believe them as well.

    Wild speculation, conspiracy theories, knee jerk reactions, and vicious insults on any side do nothing to promote the well being of either community; nor does it bring the answers so many are seeking. I believe everyone has the right to speak their mind, but I would hope that we could do so compassionately and with common sense.

    To blame or suggest a massive conspiracy between the Gunds, store keeper, and an entire community – seems to further corrupt the story and send baseless rumors flying, as well as alienate folks who may be able to shed more light on the matter. In your passion to defend and protect, you may not realize that you could be doing more harm to the people you love. I hope that you might tread lightly.

    On the flip side, for the other side to do the same and suggest that family members have info or involvement in this horrible tragedy, is reckless and dangerous. The alleged actions of the suspect can only be assumed to be his alone, all the choices made belong to him individually.

    It is good to question, but please keep in mind the families and loved ones are grieving in ways we can not comprehend, communities are emotionally battered and I for one, wish we could all afford some kindness and respect.

  • I’m very close to Sky’s family and they are grieving for all three of these young people who loved each other and basically died together. The truth is we may never know what happened, which is so difficult for humans. We crave understanding; we look for someone to blame to distance ourselves from the horror and pain. Knowing would change nothing as they are all still dead and we who loved them will continue to grieve their loss. As a kindness to the families and friends who loved all three of the kids who died, and out of respect for all three families and the sweet peaceful community who raised two of them, a community in terrible grief, please stop pointing fingers at each other and at them. Violence begets violence. There’s been enough violence and tragedy for lifetimes in this one event and if nothing else we should all look inward at the places where our own hearts have hardened to the people in our own lives and heal the wounds that hardened them. Sky was the kind of person who would want his death to somehow be a vehicle for more love and peace, not more violence of the heart. Please don’t diminish their lives and the love, peace, and freedom they stood for by letting their deaths diminish you by hardening your hearts even more. Let their deaths, like their lives, remind us all to be kinder and more loving human beings. Blessings to all who are angry, who are grieving, who are living in confusion and pain, and most of all to Sky, Kristine and Mas. May the light of your spirits illuminate us all.

  • I’m very close to Sky’s family and they are grieving for all three of these young people who loved each other and basically died together. The truth is we may never know what happened, which is so difficult for humans. We crave understanding; we look for someone to blame to distance ourselves from the horror and pain. Knowing would change nothing as they are all still dead and we who loved them will continue to grieve their loss. As a kindness to the families and friends who loved all three of the kids who died, and out of respect for all three families and the sweet peaceful community who raised two of them, a community in terrible grief, please stop pointing fingers at each other and at them. Violence begets violence. There’s been enough violence and tragedy for lifetimes in this one event and if nothing else we should all look inward at the places where our own hearts have hardened to the people in our own lives and heal the wounds that hardened them. Sky was the kind of person who would want his death to somehow be a vehicle for more love and peace, not more violence of the heart. Please don’t diminish their lives and the love, peace, and freedom they stood for by letting their deaths diminish you by hardening your hearts even more. Let their deaths, like their lives, remind us all to be kinder and more loving human beings. Blessings to all who are angry, who are grieving, who are living in confusion and pain, and most of all to Sky, Kristine and Mas. May the light of your spirits illuminate us all.

  • My condolences to everyone involved, I am just blown away at how this happened and why.
    Why didnt CHP respond from the Garberville area? Was Thomas a friend? Was he invited to the house? Why murder and not just a plain old robbery?

    I apologize if the questions offend anyone, I as well as others would just like to understand why this happened. Take care everyone!

    • I can’t answer the first question other than to point out that the likely drive for CHP would be several hours also. Kettenpom is very remote. Tomas was a friend. I don’t know if he was invited.

  • My condolences to everyone involved, I am just blown away at how this happened and why.
    Why didnt CHP respond from the Garberville area? Was Thomas a friend? Was he invited to the house? Why murder and not just a plain old robbery?

    I apologize if the questions offend anyone, I as well as others would just like to understand why this happened. Take care everyone!

    • I can’t answer the first question other than to point out that the likely drive for CHP would be several hours also. Kettenpom is very remote. Tomas was a friend. I don’t know if he was invited.

  • I had just talked to kristine about 4-6 weeks ago from today.
    She never mentioned any strange things happening.
    i hate to say this but she did mention that her relationship was not what it was at one time and she wanted to find someme who is on the same page as her. Forgive me for writing such a comment but its what I know and felt it should be passed on. What happened to happy? Kristine’s dog?
    May I adopt him and ad him to my family?

  • I had just talked to kristine about 4-6 weeks ago from today.
    She never mentioned any strange things happening.
    i hate to say this but she did mention that her relationship was not what it was at one time and she wanted to find someme who is on the same page as her. Forgive me for writing such a comment but its what I know and felt it should be passed on. What happened to happy? Kristine’s dog?
    May I adopt him and ad him to my family?

    • That is an excellent recap of the known facts of the case. I highly recommend reading it. Thank you for posting the link.

    • When are they going to release the autopsy results? The wait is getting ridiculous. The article is all well and good, but I still don’t think this has anything to do with Tomas ripping off Sky and Christine for weed like they made it appear in the article. According to one of their family members Sky and Christine were planning on quitting what they were doing and turning over the whole operation to Tomas. They wanted out of the “game.” That is apparently what he went down there to discuss – meaning it would have all been his anyways. Why kill for something that you already have? Still makes no sense unless there was another motive. Sorry folks it ain’t the weed!

    • That is an excellent recap of the known facts of the case. I highly recommend reading it. Thank you for posting the link.

    • When are they going to release the autopsy results? The wait is getting ridiculous. The article is all well and good, but I still don’t think this has anything to do with Tomas ripping off Sky and Christine for weed like they made it appear in the article. According to one of their family members Sky and Christine were planning on quitting what they were doing and turning over the whole operation to Tomas. They wanted out of the “game.” That is apparently what he went down there to discuss – meaning it would have all been his anyways. Why kill for something that you already have? Still makes no sense unless there was another motive. Sorry folks it ain’t the weed!

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