Prescribed Burn Tuesday West of Redway
Press release from the Southern Humboldt chapter of the Humboldt County Prescribed Burn Association:
There is a prescribed burn planned for tomorrow, Tuesday July 19th, west of Redway, near the Briceland-Thorne road. This is a Southern Humboldt Chapter Prescribed Burn Association project being implemented by local government agencies, primarily the Briceland Volunteer Fire Department with operational support provided by Telegraph Ridge, Shelter Cove, and Miranda VFDs, and greater Humboldt County PBA membership. There will be three separate burn units of grass with a total area of about 4 acres. As with all prescribed burns, local weather conditions and forecasts are closely monitored before any ignition takes place, and appropriate resources will be in position to control the fire. Please use caution driving in the area, expect an increase in traffic with fire personnel and multiple engines arriving to assist. Some smoke could affect the area in the morning to early afternoon.
As some may have noticed, our local precipitation in 2022 has been quite unusual so far; from very dry conditions in February to significant rainfall in July. Also, the North Coast of California is fortunate to generally enjoy more moisture as compared to other parts of the state, where the summer fire season is already active. We are sharing two photos here from our most recent burn near Briceland, this past June 27th, where the conditions seemed quite dry but residual moisture did not allow for good consumption in some areas. In the 2nd photo you can see that under the yellow tops, a slow creeping fire blackened the ground, but was unable to burn all the grass. We expect better results now, and have also prepared a large group of firefighters and engines with abundant water supply to secure the fire within well constructed control lines. CalFire will be monitoring the fire.
This burn is intended to decrease hazardous vegetative fuels nearby homes, remove some areas of invasive grass species, improving pasture, and provide important live fire experience to firefighters in a controlled setting.
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Sorry but an unsuccessful burn because of too much moisture is no more reassuring than the burns that escape because of others “unexpected” issues. It means that the “controlled” part of controlled burns are pretty much a theory rather than fact. Goats- I suggest goats and portable electric netting /fence is better. Or simply mow at the right times so it doesn’t build up dry vegetation in the first place.
Electric fences can cause fires as well
Not with modern chargers that are designed for it. Not that stupidity can’t manage to overcome the best in safety protocols.
I agree and would add that any intentional outdoor fire at this time of year seems pretty spooky to me.
Fire is different and more beneficial to ecosystems than other methods. Goats are also expensive. I have confidence in the science and risk assessment they use.
Goats are the epitome of inexpensive. Which is why they can overrun areas in the poorest of countries who allow them unrestricted access. Not a great idea if a return to natural native trees and vegetation is wanted. Which of course is the opposite of what’s wanted here.
Portable electric fencing and mowing both come with their own fire risk. Both of those options are also considerably more management intensive. Plus you don’t get the ecological benefits that fire offers.
Which particular advantage do you refer to? Better flush of growth of vegetation where you don’t want it? The removal of which is the purpose of a controlled burn in the first place?
Fire has generally been shown to support the proportion of native perennial grasses and forbs to recently introduced annual grasses in our region. This is a major benefit to an ecosystem that is disappearing rapidly. And I wouldn’t say that we don’t want rich vegetative growth in these areas, we just want it managed to minimize uncontrolled fire risk.
Goats, or other managed grazing animals, are a great idea that has a ton of potential for public lands management. But the devil is in the details. Where are these goats going to come from? Who manages them? Who pays them and how are they paid? As the article you linked notes, managing livestock in remote (as in away from home, but also distant from services in this case) is a labor intensive proposition that is hard to make work economically.
So do we build out a whole new government program of grazing animal management? Interesting proposal and I’d be very curious to see the proposed details. Grazing animals can be a boon or devastating to a landscape, it requires skilled and involved managers to steer it toward the benefit rather than the destruction. But it is something that could be an awesome addition to our public lands if we could find a way to implement it effectively.
Oh and https://www.newsbreak.com/news/2573822338242/goat-wildfire-prevention-potentially-under-threat-from-ca-law
Better off with sheep. a Shepard and a couple of good sheep dogs..
That link sits and spins 80% of the time. But the issue was pay for the Shepherds not the goats. A friend of a friend runs fire goats. $100/week/goat.
You must never have owned goats. True escape artists..
Decades of ownership and breeding. Only one “escape” and that was into my own vegetable garden because I left the gate open.
Mowing doesn’t remove the fuel, just knocks it closer to the ground. You haven’ observed goats browsing, they do reduce the fuel loading but leave plenty to carry fire. They take years to modify the fire landscape. Prescribed fire is also a live fire training experience including interagency cooperation. But you have no experience in cooperative effort like fire service do you?
True for mowing if not maintained. If done timely, the short amount of fall quickly incorporated into the soil.
However you are wrong about goats. If there is a lot of browse and few goats, they do eat the most tasty parts and leave the rest. But if done right, they will remove everything but a very, very few plants that in my experience are low growing by nature like Ranunculus or English daisy. They love poison oak for example. I’ve never tried them on scotch broom so don’t know about that. They are the only grazers/browsers (different breeds of goats tend to graze more than others) that remove water reed in my area. And they do it down to the ground. On hillsides that are impossible to mow. And it doesn’t take them much time to do it.
I have had goats to maintain the fence line weed growth. Something which mowing and weed whacking doesn’t do. Bless their little greedy lips that reach through the fence and maintain a nice area of about 6 inches on the other side of the fence.
Maintaining a fire resistant area using goats needs a bit of thinking. Not much but a bit. They need to have access at the right times depending on the nature of the vegetation in enough numbers to be effective. And removed to allow regrowth. The really great thing is that they and their shepherds can be rented as needed.
They aren’t much into seeded out & browned grass, though; which is what this controlled burn is meant to address.
Right… I don’t have much experience with brown grass as the goats never let that happen.
Sure…but that is the actual subject matter at hand in the article and what spurred this discussion
haha how about we mow 10s of 1000s of acres. we’ll need an army of solar powered drones for that!
You expect to do control burns on “10s of 1000s of acres?”
We need controlled burns on 10s of millions of acres
Having done a bunch of prescribed burning so far, I do remember one concept: once you drop the match, it’s a Wildland Fire. There’s at least two huge differences with a negative fire.
One, on a prescribed burn, you have resources there first, waiting around for it to dry out enough. On an emergency fire, it takes a long time to get resources out to a remote spot, and the ones you hear about, popped off at the worst moments.
Two, you pick the time. We have cooler weather in the forecast, if they have light enough winds, with all the engines there, and all the dozers, copters, and air tankers aware that at 1100hrs-ish, such and such a date, there’ll be an ignition, it should be no problemo!
Right and this isn’t their first rodeo..
For some of them, it could be their first rodeo…
??”Should” be no problemo???
Hmmm…
?? Not “will” be no problemo?
Hmmm…
Really? In the summer?
Have these folks not yet been traumatized by wildfires the last few summers like we have farther north?
And farther south. And farther east
but its fire fear porn season
100%
Remember all those drills done in the name of safety and preparedness.
I just hope it stays a prescribed burn and does not grow faster than the fire departments on scene can handle. They are really playing with fire at a very poor time in my book!
Just waiting for those that chided me about my objections to the last BVFD prescribed burn, to chime in on this one…
What say you now, in late July, oh ye gurus of summertime combustion?
In my opinion, BVFD is playing with fire.
Don’t be surprised if someone, or something unintended, burns…
It’s gonna be tough to juggle in any other potential incident, while they are busy, with their hands full, and their equipment spoken for, as they are managing this elective commitment.
It’s a gamble that’s for sure…
Really dicey…
At least they are not discouraging people from calling it in…
And they will keep doing it, and keep saying, “see we told you it was safe”, right up to the time one gets away and wreaks havoc.
Most prescribed burning goes well, and thus doesn’t make any news. Remember, the day they ignite isn’t the first day at the site. It’s undoubtedly been prepped, there is containment lines in place around the intended burn area. Usually you have an area you want to burn, this is surrounded by an area that you can have an escape, and catch it without damage. Then beyond that is the area you aim to absolutely limit fire spread.
Definitely not sure about the wisdom of this. Embers can stay burning for weeks or months and reignite later when it’s very hot. Late fall prescribed burning is a way better idea. You know, the way the natives did it. Doesn’t take a scientist to know that.
You have no first hand knowledge how natives approached fire. Have you ever had a red card? Ember don’t reignite if they are still burning … LOL
?
But if embers find more fuel, or more fuel finds them, the embers can “reinvigorate”.
Indigenous folk did not burn exclusively in the fall…not even close.
Ask the Hupa, Yurok, Karok peoples.
Probably didn’t burn in July of dry years, but they didn’t have the coordinated command structure with communication and equipment infrastructure available either.
Sounds like all of you are experts, how about you join your local Volunteer Fire Department
Or possibly they should call you next time and ask your expert opinion. Do you think they don’t have a contingency plan and available resources. Y’all should probably be on call they might need your approval to do what they do ?
?
It seems to me that the folks in close proximity to these burns may want the fuel breaks that the burns will provide.
Girl boss,
I have a question for you…
In your firefighting experience, (mine is somewhat limited, I admit), have you ever responded to a lighting fire, and then heard lightning split the atmosphere so close to you, three times in rapid succession, that all you hear are the ear splitting crackles, but no thunder follows ?
(That’s because your at ground zero).
And can you still remember what the ozone, that those three bolts of lightning generated, smelled like?
( It’s the “cleanest” smell you can ever experience).
Very exhilarating!
?Just wondering…⚡⚡⚡?
Yeah well I actually got hit by lighting working as a hot shot smoke jumper. Luckily I was standing on an old abandoned rubber tire so I wasn’t grounded. But my crew boss said I lit up and he could see my skeleton like an
x-ray. It actually turned my hair white.
Talk about exhilarating.. I still remember the ozone smell and the energy I felt.
And you left out some things about the smell you found.
Here are some of the ways the smell of ozone is described:
Like a burning wire. Like chlorine. A “clean” smell. Sweet and pungent.
And did I ever tell you the flat tire story?
Trust me, it’s the “clean” smell.
And like I already said, “it’s the “cleanest smell you can ever experience”.
And I also guarantee you, it’s not something that you will ever, ever, experience.
Especially if you add in the three strikes with no thunder…
Do you even understand that concept?
Do you want the year, and incident number?, And why don’t you guess how many strikes there were that day, and at which incident # CalFire was completely out of resources?
( It might surprise you).
And there were plenty of witnesses.
(You obviously weren’t there).
But first, why don’t you tell me about the incident number and year, for your lightning series event?
And you really shouldn’t judge my credibility, or even begin to compare it with your own.
What you should understand though, is…
How dependably I will respond.
All by myself.
And yes, we contained it.
You can’t make this shit up.
Good luck.
Did I ever tell you about the time I was fighting the A Rock fire In Yosemite? I was attacked by a bear, luckily a lightning strike hit that bear and done killed him dead.
You can look it up.
Lightning carries 15 million
volts and can heat the surrounding air to 50,000
Fahrenheit. But even if you’re just near the site of a lightning strike, you can still experience damage. Ruptured eardrums can occur from the thunderous sound waves created by the nearby strike.
I’ve responded to lightning fires. Usually AFTER the lightning. Lightning generated ozone kinda smells like bong water to me…
That’s the smell after someone shits their pants, after lightning strikes near them.
Lightning can produce nitrogen in the Earth where it strikes…
I like to say that lightning can add “nitrogen” to your “shorts”.
You want an incident # also, I suppose…
Famous last words…
https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/environment/playing-fire-feud-grows/
This prescribed burn was ignited in March in Colorado…
?? Not July 19th…?♂️
“Tom Scanlan’s house burned down on an early spring afternoon in March 2012. Just days before, the Colorado State Forest Service had set fire to the dangerously overgrown forest near the Lower North Fork of the Platte River, about 40 miles outside Denver. The controlled burn was supposed to stave off a future blaze; instead, warm temperatures and high winds fanned a wall of flames that torched 1,400 acres, left three people dead, and destroyed 23 homes—even those like Scanlan’s with defensible space. “They did a number of things wrong,” says the 69-year-old former aeronautics executive, “but the biggest thing was setting that fire in the first place.” ”
Wow, 1400 acres, 23 homes lost, and 3 dead…
Lit in March, not July…
Food for thought.
“While residents have sued government agencies over burns gone wild, it’s hard to prove negligence; it’s more common to receive a small payout through emergency funds. (Those affected by the North Fork fire that destroyed Scanlan’s home received approximately $18 million from the Colorado government.)
Not surprisingly, some homeowners have begun to question whether prescribed burns should be performed near populated areas at all.”
First, different regions have different fire seasons, including peak fire season.
Second, the USFS lighting fires and the local VFDs with CalFire resource support lighting fires are two totally different things.
2 different kinds of fire?
Really?
So what’s the big difference?
Are local VFD’s fires “cooler”?
Friendly fire as opposed to hostile fire?
I’m not buying it… Fire is fire.
And do me a favor, quote me exactly where it says any CalFire resources will be present, please…
I sure don’t see where it says anything at all about “CalFire resource support”…
“….and have also prepared a large group of firefighters and engines with abundant water supply to secure the fire within well constructed control lines. CalFire will be monitoring the fire.”
Read the last line i quoted
“Yeah I missed the part about “CalFire will be monitoring the fire”…
Thanks for that.
But, I figure, all that might mean is that they know about it, and will be listening to the scanner, or maybe that just means that they will have a “talking head” their “watching”.
Do you want to clarify and confirm, if that vague quote means that they will be PRESENT, ON SCENE with “support resources” like engines and firefighters, ON SCENE ?
Because I don’t think that’s what that quite NECESSARILY means.
Jeez us. Go there. See the Coptor. The dozer operator at Eel river camp KNOWS fire will be on the ground today. You will have a quicker response than if they LEARN about a fire out 36 or somewhere hours away, lit in conditions that would shut down prescribed fire.
You have reading comprehension skill issues.
I didn’t say it was two types of fires.
It’s two different situations with vastly different knowledge bases, including knowledge of local conditions.
USFS often ignores or is uneducated in the manners in which they do their burns, especially.in regards to local conditions.
??Hmmm.?♂️
I have “reading comprehension” ,”skill” issues?
Really?
Not just “reading comprehension” issues?
So let me get this straight…
Vastly different knowledge bases?
Do you mean that CalFire is “more smarter” than the USFS?
“USFS often ignores or is uneducated in the manner in which they do burns,…”
Wow, calling USFS uneducated AND ignorant?
That should go over big…
No wonder you didn’t mention that before.
So, how would you rate CalFire?
( Hopefully better)
You do know it isn’t always, or only, USFS prescribed burns that get away, right?
And what you apparently don’t understand about what I said, was that fire is fire, and it makes no difference what color the uniform is, as far as which drops that first match.
Blue, green, black, it makes no difference.
Hopefully, cockiness, and overconfidence, won’t become an issue with today’s fire.
Have an awesome day…
Gain some background before you get too worked up. Understand that it’s likely you only are conscious of burning going wrong. My comments above about USFS and CalFire motivations are from conversations with FS employees, and CalFire employees, all thrown together (recreating) discussing the pros and cons of either career choice.
Who lit the back burn on the August Complex that got away and burned so many homes?
Well it’s so obvious CalFire will be involved maybe it doesn’t need mentioned. A community with volunteer fire services multiplies the available resources. Ever notice the giant landscape fires haven’t got a foothold in amongst the 42 Humboldt communities with volunteer fire services?
Then, USFS pay schedules are capped at a certain number of hours UNLESS there’s a fire. Then you can get more hours, so there’s a bit of incentive to let it burn longer. CalFire gets paid regardless, so they’d rather put it out, and go back and watch TV.
Well it’s so obvious CalFire will be involved, maybe it does need questioned.
A community that’s volunteer fire services are putting fire in the ground in July, are tying up, and therefore dividing, the available resources.
Ever noticed what?
Haven’t gotten a foot hold?
Seriously?
Never say never…
And, how long have you lived around here?
How old are you?
When I moved here, everything from Whitethorn Construction west to the ocean was black, as far as the eye could see, as near as I can remember…
That was almost 50 years ago, and it’s plenty ripe for that again.
That was started by carelessness.
Let’s not start that again…
I also remember, long about that time, ashes raining in Redway, from a fire near Pratt Mtn.
And I woke up one morning, a short couple of years ago, not being able to breathe comfortably, and my wife and I, having to use a wet cloth, in order to breathe uneasily.
An inch of thick, course ash, covered everything from the August Complex, after “the experts” backlit under a red flag warning, and we had to evacuate, and weren’t allowed to return home for 10 days, even though fire never even reached Humboldt County.
So, I say, don’t fuck around.
Shelter Cove CA.
13,000 acres.
This article is from September 12th, 1973.
https://www.nytimes.com/1973/09/12/archives/firemen-get-upper-hand-in-timber-blazes-on-coast.html
“Fog moved in over a 13,000‐acre fire near picturesque Shelter Cove along the Pacific Ocean in rugged Humboldt County, causing the fire to “lay down.” Firefighters declared it contained at 8 A.M.”
Well convince people that now is the best time near Redway.
https://www.firerescue1.com/wildfire/articles/escaped-controlled-burn-was-on-retired-cal-fire-chiefs-property-KR3RJnkcY0oUFWjW/
I hope you all are enjoying all this. So let’s seee what people have to say tomorrow.
?
And maybe you missed this?
It’s a link, provided by “nooo”…
From just 9 months ago…
It’s about a CalFire prescribed burn escape… (no, not the USFS “Calf Fire”),
You know, sorta as you put it, “the non ignorant”, “non-uneducated ones”…
https://www.firerescue1.com/wildfire/articles/escaped-controlled-burn-was-on-retired-cal-fire-chiefs-property-KR3RJnkcY0oUFWjW/
“Even though more than a dozen Cal Fire firefighters were supervising the burn, sudden gusts of wind sent embers over their lines. Estrada and his son Zach, who had been watching the operation, tried to help put out the flames with water and hand tools.”
“The Estrada Fire didn’t burn any homes.”
“But the incident provided a difficult reminder that across the West, where fire scientists say controlled burns and forest thinning are desperately needed to remove overgrown brush and dead trees on millions of acres to reduce the risk of massive megafires, sometimes even carefully planned, beneficial fire gets away.”
Different parts of the country experience fire season at different times. Spring in the SW, Fall on the west coast, through January in LA..study the escapes, you can usually find obvious deficiencies in the plan, or evidence they ignored conditions outside of their prescription. It’s not as exciting, but there are also articles about how regular burning (in Lake Co) helped reduce severity from a large Wildland Fire later.
And there is the point- people do ignore, misunderstand or simply make an error in judgement. The mistake is compounded at a time when there are already a half dozen major fires in California already claiming resources. It doesn’t mean prescribed burns shouldn’t happen but the timing is questionable. Burn permits were suspended by CalFire in Humboldt Co on 7/18/22.
CAL FIRE may issue restricted temporary burning permits if there is an essential reason due to public health and safety. Agriculture, land management, fire training, and other collaborative prescribed fuel reduction burning may proceed if a CAL FIRE official inspects the burn site and issues a special permit..
And then what?
If conditions are right, they will have the burn. Things will go as planned.
Seems some people won’t be happy until they do a burn that gets out of control so you can say “we told you so”.
Sponsor an Item to Equip the New Briceland Fire Station..Please donate
Been my experience that the only thing that can be real trouble in a controlled situation is wind.
Or not. Turns out that the Calf Fire in New Mexico was the result of a fuel reduction project done in January. A debris pile from then, which never went out, started the massive fire in the following April. “The US Forest Service announced today that the Calf Canyon Fire northwest of Las Vegas, New Mexico was caused by piles that were still burning more than two months after they were ignited near the end of January, 2022. The heat remained after having been at times under snow when it was detected on April 9. The piles were comprised of vegetation and debris remaining after a fuel treatment project.”
https://wildfiretoday.com/2022/05/27/investigators-determine-calf-canyon-fire-caused-by-holdover-from-prescribed-fire/
I just talked to a local firefighter that was recovering after surgery from being injured fighting this fire…
You mean, like, overconfidence?
All the usual experts. And not a one of them has or ever will participate in controlled burns. Summer ignitions are not uncommon at all, having participated in dozens on National Forests and National parks. It’s called weather (humidity, temperature, wind); vegetation type and moisture content of fuel; pre burn unit boundary preparation with dozer/fire lines in place and lots of personnel, equipment, and water trucks; time of day – dusk and dawn always offer good opportunities; and experienced fire personnel. Most of the time they are successful, occasionally they are successful but burn outside the fire lines into adjacent forest and are put down. Rarely do they escape to create a true wildland fire which burns houses, but it has happened. However, our society cannot operate on being completely risk averse, as any citizen in America could accidentally trip on a street corner curb, fall into the street, and then get run over by a bus just passing by at that very second. So, do you want to live in fire safe environments in the hills or do you want entire watersheds torched. A motto to live by, “Cut it back and burn it black”.
Hear hear Al
He is talking to much common sense about the situation..
The point is that risks are unacceptably higher at this time of year. Not that anyone is saying they should never be done. Making dramatic pronouncements about “usual experts” ignores the fact that it is the real experts making a mistake that has caused damage in the past that should have never happened. And doing it in a time of drought and heat waves is just too risky even with all the expertise in the world.
Hmm… Don’t trust the science when it involves disease and government but trust it when it involves wildfire and government?
The risk doesn’t have anything to do with the name of the month on a calendar. It has to do with temperature, winds, humidity, fuel loads, terrain and longer term trends.
No one said anything about the name of the month but you. It’s hot, the humidity is predicted to drop below 40% and the winds, while calm are expected to shift midday.
Long term trends?
Do you mean like…
(Let me spell it out for you)…
U-N-P-R-E-C-E-D-E-N-T-E-D D-R-O-U-G-H-T.
It’s like navigating in uncharted territory.
I hope all goes well.
?I’d kind of like to see some statistics on success rates vs escapes, for prescribed burn ignitions, in the second half of July, ?.
Anybody got any statistics like that?
There was just a news article on the 6:00 news about the controlled burn. Everything went fine. No it didn’t get out of control. The fine fire fighters are on their way home as we speak..
So all you haters need to make a donation to these very brave fire fighters departments..
Crickets…