Protesters Rally in Eureka Saturday for ‘Right 2 Rest’ as Supreme Court Decision Looms on Homelessness Rights

A flier advertising the rally for the “Right @ Rest” organized by HHEAL can be found on their social media.  

A flier advertising the rally for the “Right @ Rest” organized by HHEAL can be found on their social media.

In response to the pending Supreme Court decision regarding the rights of homeless individuals to sleep outdoors when no accessible or appropriate shelter is available, a “Right 2 Rest” protest has been planned for Saturday at the county courthouse. Local advocates for homeless rights, unhoused community members, and supporters of humane and practical solutions to the ongoing crisis are expected to rally at the courthouse for the demonstration at noon.

Tiffany Lafoon from HHEAL (Humboldt Homeless Expertise And Leadership) is calling attention to the ongoing legal battle against the criminalization of homelessness in the US, particularly focusing on the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals’ rulings. Despite these rulings, municipalities continue enforcement actions deemed unconstitutional.  In the landmark case of Martin v. Boise, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled in 2018 that it is cruel and unusual punishment to criminalize camping on public property when the people in question have nowhere else they can legally sleep. In 2019, the Supreme Court declined to hear an appeal of this case, solidifying the ruling’s impact.

Lafoon emphasized the disconnect between these rulings and actual enforcement, speculating that “municipalities and police are eagerly waiting for the Federal Supreme Court to perhaps overturn these protections, thereby allowing unchecked criminalization of homelessness.” During the interview, Lafoon explained that the ongoing legal battle hinges on whether homelessness is considered a condition or an action. “If they rule it’s a status, they can’t criminalize it. But if it’s considered conduct, the possibilities for punitive measures will increase significantly.”

Lafoon explained that part of the legal determination that she expects will be made relates to a distinction between circumstance and choice. As an advocate for the rights of the unhoused, she said, “They’re exploring whether homelessness is a behavioral choice or an unavoidable condition. They’re also considering if sleeping outside is a necessity akin to breathing, which can’t be criminalized, versus public health risks like going to the bathroom outside, which they argue justifies criminalization.”

A sign making party was attended by several folks who were intent on painting large banners and colorful painted signs advocating for the already existing right to sleep or camp outside when accessible shelter is unattainable, per the currently standing law. [Photo by Ryan Hutson]

A sign making party was attended by several folks who were intent on painting large banners and colorful painted signs advocating for the already existing right to sleep or camp outside when accessible shelter is unattainable, per the currently standing law. [Photo by Ryan Hutson]

She continued, “Instead of requiring municipalities to provide essentials like restrooms and safe places to sleep, the focus is on the perceived public health risks. I don’t have high hopes for this Federal Supreme Court to do the right thing, but I have more faith in our local representatives if we apply enough pressure.”

Lafoon, with other members of HHEAl and those in the communities they serve, called for community action. She said, “We would like to see pressure placed on the Eureka City Council and the Arcata City Council and maybe the county board of supervisors to not criminalize homelessness anymore. We’re advocating for them to even decrease current criminalization efforts.”

A sign making party was attended by several folks who were intent on painting large banners and colorful painted signs advocating for the already existing right to sleep or camp outside when accessible shelter is unattainable, per the currently standing law. Nanette Dean, sharing her personal experience with homelessness, echoed Lafoon’s sentiments. “I was safer in that community than I was in my neighborhood. When I was married and making house payments—the All-American dream with the house painted and carpeted. When I became homeless, I was so scared. I didn’t know these people; I just heard horror stories. You know what I found? The majority of them were there due to circumstances they couldn’t control. And once they got down there, they couldn’t get back up.”

Dean highlighted the stigma associated with homelessness, noting that a little humanity goes a long way, and expressed hope that the community would be supportive of her “Right to Rest” outdoors, if needed. “I think that it’s going to get worse, because I think people are afraid of the unknown. And there’s so much bad stigmatization being associated with houselessness.” Dean is currently struggling to keep a small apartment on a limited income and relies on the outreach services and moral support provided by groups like HHEAL.

An outreach coordinator who assists HHEAL also weighed in, emphasizing the importance of community support and proper resource allocation. “We need to look beyond punitive measures. We need to provide real solutions that include access to affordable housing and essential services. Criminalizing homelessness only pushes the problem out of sight without solving it.”

She added that basic human dignities such as a secure place to sleep, hygienic care and healthy food, are critical to maintaining wellbeing.  The struggling mother, who is also unhoused, said “Without those things you’re going to lack and your mental state will, like rapidly, just crumble and you wouldn’t be no good for anybody or anything, even yourself.”  She passionately added, “I just would like to be able to prove myself. I’m a people pleaser. I go over and beyond for anything, whether it’s positive or negative. Some of these people just really need to [feel] like a person.”

She posed a critical question to local elected officials and state lawmakers, saying, “I want to ask all these people that are passing these laws, how many paychecks are you away from homelessness? How many paychecks would it take you missing before you’re facing being on the streets? It’s a real possibility, and that’s something everybody needs to consider.”

A sign making party was attended by several folks who were intent on painting large banners and colorful painted signs advocating for the already existing right to sleep or camp outside when accessible shelter is unattainable, per the currently standing law.

[Photo by Ryan Hutson]

Lafoon pointed out that the root cause of homelessness is the lack of affordable housing. “The cost of living is higher than most people’s income. Anyone, even the employed and educated, can fall into homelessness due to any slight misfortune,” she stated. 

The demonstration on June 1st at noon at the courthouse aims to press local city councils and the County Board of Supervisors to “stop the criminalization of homelessness” and in turn, address housing affordability more effectively. “We need to keep this issue in the public eye and apply pressure on our representatives. Our cities don’t have to enforce punitive measures,” Lafoon urged, as the Supreme Court gears up for a critical ruling by the end of June.

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115 Please improve the conversation by disagreeing thoughtfully and backing your claims with facts
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Mr. Clark
Member
2 years ago

These people need help. Some form themselves. Why are they on the street? Why not in a shelter? Why are they squatting in the brush? At the beach? In the greenbelt? In their cars? There is help out there. But today it really falls on them to get off drugs. That is the first step. Many feel if they have to pay rent, they cant afford drugs. Even given a place to live, and they cant maintain the requirements of sobriety to stay. The county has failed the mentally ill.

Permanently on Monitoring
Guest
Permanently on Monitoring
2 years ago
Reply to  Mr. Clark

0.4% of the population do not have the right to just flop anywhere…

Seniors in CA represent 9 million individuals, or about 23% of the population… Where’s my free, safe place to flop, as is my god given right?

9 million or ~190,000? Who has earned the right to do drugs and live in the gutter?

Fuck the Homeless. Give them a nice internment camp…

Brackish
Guest
Brackish
2 years ago

How ’bout giving them Arcata, Ukiah, Cotati, Fairfax, Tracy, Modesto, etc? Perhaps each county in California sets aside one entire city for them? A crazy thought, to be sure, but let’s start with giving them city council members houses, at least

Country Joe
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Brackish

[Edit]

Kym Kemp
Admin
2 years ago
Reply to  Country Joe

Joe, one more like this and you’re on moderation.

Thatguyinarcata
Guest
Thatguyinarcata
2 years ago

Lots of elderly people are homeless and you’re also free to sleep in public under the current law.

justsayin
Guest
justsayin
2 years ago

Really? Where? If you are elderly and homeless it’s because you made bad choices, didn’t apply yourself and built no future… and that’s whose fault?

Thatguyinarcata
Guest
Thatguyinarcata
2 years ago
Reply to  justsayin

That’s a very myopic view of the paths that can lead a person to homelessness. It’s also a total non sequitur in regards the comment you’re responding to.

Country Joe
Member
2 years ago

That’s a fact not a myopic view.

Thatguyinarcata
Guest
Thatguyinarcata
2 years ago
Reply to  Country Joe

What’s a fact Joe?

Please share your sources with us so that we can all learn these facts you adhere to

Humboldt Lady
Guest
Humboldt Lady
2 years ago
Reply to  justsayin

Bullshit! I’m homeless from the earthquake in 22. I’m elderly. I had insurance. It’s not always a persons fault, especially if there is a natural disaster.

jimimmel
Guest
jimimmel
2 years ago

And I am free to disturb anyone I see fit.

Thatguyinarcata
Guest
Thatguyinarcata
2 years ago
Reply to  jimimmel

Depending on what you mean by “disturb” that may or may not be true.

Country Joe
Member
2 years ago

Excellent suggestion.

Realist
Guest
Realist
2 years ago

We should invite them to come stay at the wide open all inclusive campground at the end of upperbay road in arcata

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
2 years ago
Reply to  Mr. Clark

It took two years for the help to help me it’s not a door you can just walk in and boom your housed it’s a lot of misconceptions on what is available for the UN housed

Prometheus
Guest
Prometheus
2 years ago
Reply to  Mr. Clark

A small percentage are mentally ill and eligible for assistance. The vast majority are vagrants and criminals living off freebies from the pandering federal and state government. Get a job and get the hell off of private property. Don’t buy in to this BS.

Thatguyinarcata
Guest
Thatguyinarcata
2 years ago
Reply to  Prometheus

Have you ever lived off of government assistance? It is not a desirable life style

D'Tucker Jebs
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Prometheus

A staggering 82% of people experiencing homelessness said they had a mental health condition or substance use challenge in their lifetime.” https://californiahealthline.org/news/article/california-homelessness-is-homegrown-university-of-california-research/

Yabut
Guest
Yabut
2 years ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

And all the people who have a mental illness and are not homeless? And the 90 odd percent of those who are not homeless yet have health issues? And all those people who did not fall into substance abuse or, if they did, are still not homeless? Somehow they must also be responsible for who did not cope in a rational way?

So they came to California then became homeless. What do people do who find that where they are does not provide the jobs they need? They move to where there are jobs even if there is no beach or congenial environment. Practicality overcomes wishful thinking.

Here is a slightly different spin on the same study. One less full of irrelevant social commentary but more direct correlations. How silly is the idea that poverty causes homelessness without thinking about what causes poverty? https://time.com/6287597/study-homelessness-findings/

cranky old lady
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Mr. Clark

I’m sick of this issue being conflated with homelessness. These people are homeless by choice. Almost all of them use drugs and addiction is their real issue. Those that are truly mentally ill: schizophrenia, bipolar need treatment even if forced. People who have lost jobs and subsequently evicted don’t hang with these “homeless,” they have friends, family, and other resources to turn to. It’s time to recriminalize open drug use and use incarceration to force the addicted into treatment, especially medication assisted treatment. That’s the gold standard and it’s effective for both opiate and meth addiction both. Even if they have to be on drugs like Suboxone and methadone for the rest of their lives, MAT will at least give them the ability to put themselves back in order and live a meaningful existence. So stop howling about the poor homeless person and call it what it really is: a drug problem.

Mr. Clark
Member
2 years ago

Resting yes. Nodding NO!

THC
Member
THC
2 years ago

It’s not homelessness that’s being criminalized, it’s their conduct. Just because your homeless it does not give you the right to sleep in front of someone business or turn all our recreationall areas into encampments. nor does it give you the right to leave thousands of pounds of garbage or defecate on the streets while laying around doing drugs all day..

treeman53
Member
treeman53
2 years ago
Reply to  THC

Couldn’t have said it better

D'Tucker Jebs
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  THC

To solve the problems you mentioned, we need to offer solutions.
There needs to be free housing and a free campground if we want to keep people from sleeping in public.
There needs to be better access to garbage services if we want t keep trash off the street.
There needs to be access to toilets- although that would largely be solved if people were provided with shelter.
And we need drug and alcohol treatment centers.
Complaining about these problems, or even criminalizing the behaviors, will not solve them.

Alf
Guest
Alf
2 years ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

Typical liberal handout mentality. Portable toilets were provided and these people set them on fire and filled them with needles. Oh yeah… everything was given to them in specified camping locations with huge locking cans to store their stuff, dumpsters for trash, and they destroyed everything in site. The cops would come and help clean up and load trash into the dumpsters, and within 5 minutes these people had climbed in the dumpsters and thrown everything back out. PD eventually had to sit and wait until the trash company came and hauled it away to avoid this. I saw them bring in so much trash the dumpsters had to be hauled away 5 times per day and the trash was still al over the place.

No.. liberal handouts do nothing but enable trashy people to perpetuate trashy lifestyles.

D'Tucker Jebs
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Alf

How about handing out stays at rehab facilities or in mental health facilities?
How about handing out enough food that people don’t need to dumpster dive?
This problem has being approached half-assedly and haphazardly.
It needs to be dealt with wholistically.

Last edited 2 years ago
Alf
Guest
Alf
2 years ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

They don’t want rehab or mental health treatment. They want free everything and their drugs too. They are human wrecking balls with nothing positive in mind. Have you actually walked through old town Eureka? Have you had to watch your step for human feces, animal feces, needles, trash and more? Have you had to look over your shoulder because some aggressive piece of human garbage won’t leave you alone? Have you been the victim of their vandalism and other violent crimes like having a gun pulled on you? Have you experienced any of this? For me, it’s a yes to ALL of the above. In all these cases PD was uninterested in helping. DA wasn’t interested in prosecuting.

The only thing that works is removing them from society based on their crimes. Once removed from society, and only then will ANY change happen. Law abiding citizens have the right to be safe. Lowlifes don’t have a right to make others unsafe. After they are removed from society, they can be offered work training, mental health treatment, rehab or any manner of help. But they cannot be allowed to continue in their life of crime. This may sound harsh, but harsh is the only language they understand.

D'Tucker Jebs
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Alf

It feels like you ignored everything in my comments just so you could continue to complain.

Alf
Guest
Alf
2 years ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

Not at all. I am simply pointing out the liberal narrative which you present has been tried over and over. It is simply narrative and 100% failure. The only solution to the problem that works is removing them from the streets for their crimes. No amount of narrative works without them being forced off the streets, forced to pay for their crimes and absolutely never force them on law abiding citizens. If they are incapable of taking care of themselves they must be in jail, in rehab, in some kind of mandatory program that includes reparations for their crimes. The liberal idea that forcing these criminals off the streets “because of their rights” being wrong is total BS. The liberal way of dealing with this is by giving rights to criminals and taking away the rights of law abiding citizens. It has never worked and never will.

Thatguyinarcata
Guest
Thatguyinarcata
2 years ago
Reply to  Alf

Imprisoning people has been tried and has not worked.

Historically, what you call “the liberal narrative” is the base of the most successful societies.

Alf
Guest
Alf
2 years ago

I’m a firm believer that imprisoning is just a start. However, I’m also a firm believer in expanding capital punishment. If prison doesn’t wake someone up that crime won’t be tolerated and change their ways, they are of no value to society and capital punishment should be given. If that were the case, crime would go down drastically. Rehab and mental health treatments don’t work for those that don’t want it, thus the same capital punishment should apply.

Proof that liberal policies don’t work is in New York City, where illegal immigrants who murdered cops haven’t been prosecuted because of political BS and having to “Get Trump.” So the city is going to hell, but they got him. Just add to that, the terrible crime not being prosecuted in Georgia for the same reason. Yet, the Bidens, Clinton’s, Obamas, Pelosi, and many others have committed far worse crimes but are still free to roam around and continue destroying America.

And if, as the liberals say, “nobody is above the law,” then why is there even a conversation going on about getting the criminal homeless off the streets? They should all be gone. Also, why are liberals refusing to acknowledge the CPH terrorists were indeed criminals. Hypocrisy and liberalism are synonymous.

Thatguyinarcata
Guest
Thatguyinarcata
2 years ago
Reply to  Alf

Ah yes, the ever present desire to expand state sanctioned murder.

This faux feudalism your parade out as “conservatism” is an insult to the valuable contributions of conservative philosophy.

Alf
Guest
Alf
2 years ago

The difference between conservatives and liberals in state sanctioned murder is simple. Conservatives believe in abortion of those who choose a life of crime. Liberals believe in abortion of unborn babies who are innocent. Liberals are clearly far more pro murder than liberals. Liberals are the biggest threat to this country.

THC
Member
THC
2 years ago

We don’t need to imprison people, we just need to stop facilitating their lifestyle. I guarantee you if we instituted drug testing for any state or federal benefit drug usage would drop dramatically.

D'Tucker Jebs
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Alf

I specifically said rehab facilities are necessary.
I also never said that anyone shouldn’t be held accountable for their crimes.
And none of what I said has been tried “over and over.”
If the “liberal” way of dealing with things was as you describe it,
I’d be opposed to it too. But it’s not.
You’re simply making things up.

Realist
Guest
Realist
2 years ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

Virtue signaling why don’t we give them your address and they can use your bathroom

Laura hall
Guest
Laura hall
2 years ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

Thank you!!!!

THC
Member
THC
2 years ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

California has spent 43 billion dollars on homeless programs in the last 3 years.. And it’s gotten worse by a factor of 40%. How about instead of giving them free things we require them to give us something in return for a monthly check. Why do people think, The taxpayers are obligated to pay people to lay around and do drugs all day? The vast majority of the homeless in the state are not single Mother’s or downtrotten families, they are Middle-aged able-bodied people that are perfectly capable of working.

Lydia W
Guest
Lydia W
2 years ago
Reply to  THC

I agree with your statement

Dumboldt
Guest
Dumboldt
2 years ago

It should be ok to sleep out of the way . Littering is NOT OK any homeless person who has garbage around thier site should be arrested and all belonging trashed. This garbage has to be stopped . How did these people become such useless humans.

Mr. Clark
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Dumboldt

there is no money in arresting the poor

Dumboldt
Guest
Dumboldt
2 years ago
Reply to  Mr. Clark

It would allow the people who wipe thier ass for a living to get back to what they are paid to do. I am sure no county ,city or state worker wants to clean up human waste that is a homeless camp.

Zipline
Guest
Zipline
2 years ago

I can solve the homeless/mental health “crisis” for less than $10 per person. This is a one time charge and is 100% effective. Permanent solution.

Thatguyinarcata
Guest
Thatguyinarcata
2 years ago
Reply to  Zipline

You seriously need to talk with a mental health professional. The frequency with which you opine about the benefit of killing large groups of people is disturbing and indicative of a deep mental and spiritual disquiet

Ferkfentanyl
Guest
Ferkfentanyl
2 years ago

I call bullshit. I’ve been homeless and amazingly once I stopped using drugs I didn’t want to be homeless anymore so I busted my ass and got my life together. There is so many programs willing to help but if a person has to want to change

Zipline
Guest
Zipline
2 years ago
Reply to  Ferkfentanyl

Good for you. Hope you’re doing well.

Thatguyinarcata
Guest
Thatguyinarcata
2 years ago
Reply to  Ferkfentanyl

Yes, the question we have to deal with as a society is how to deal with people who don’t want to change? We’ve tried imprisoning them and that didn’t work. Now we’re trying largely leaving people alone and that’s not working.

We need to try something new

cranky old lady
Member
2 years ago

“We need to try something new.”

How about saying “No. You can’t pitch a tent here on the sidewalk. No. You can’t use or sell drugs openly. No. We will not tolerate your petty crime.”

“No” can be a very powerful word.

Thatguyinarcata
Guest
Thatguyinarcata
2 years ago

We tried that for decades. All it got us was the world’s largest prison population and the broken communities that continue to feed more drug addicts and chronically homeless people into the queue

Pretending that the most incarcerated nation on earth hasn’t tried locking people up for every pretty transgression is a special kind of delusion

cranky old lady
Member
2 years ago

I said nothing about locking anyone up there. My only position on this issue is this: we don’t have a homeless problem, we have a DRUG problem. And yes. Saying No does work. Problem is, authorities aren’t saying NO enough.

Thatguyinarcata
Guest
Thatguyinarcata
2 years ago

What’s your proposed solution to our drug problem? Because when the government was not on “just saying NO” they enacted that by locking lots of people up. And it didn’t work.

Bozo
Guest
Bozo
2 years ago

Locking up doesn’t work.
Death penalty does work in Singapore, Saudi Arabia, (etc.)

To emphasize, anyone found dealing in drugs in Saudi Arabia is liable for the death penalty. Authorities make no exceptions and foreign embassies are relatively powerless to intercede on their citizens’ behalf when it comes to drug laws in Saudi Arabia.

Thatguyinarcata
Guest
Thatguyinarcata
2 years ago
Reply to  Bozo

What other lessons should we gain from theocratic oil kingdoms?

THC
Member
THC
2 years ago

Maybe we could try not paying them each month to sit around and do drugs?

Jason
Guest
Jason
2 years ago

Allowing people to camp on the sidewalks increases the homeless problem. Every other country and most states figured this out long ago and we’re seeing it clear as day on the west coast.

Permanently on Monitoring
Guest
Permanently on Monitoring
2 years ago
Reply to  Tim

Finland, where the elite meet to live in Socialism…

Tim
Guest
Tim
2 years ago

They’ve got a lot of great ideas. I really like the income-linked traffic fines where the more you make, the more you pay. Plus they’ve managed to work out how to provide universal health care access. And they manage to elect leaders who aren’t fucking ancient.

Seems like we could learn a lot from them.

Last edited 2 years ago
Xi’sXoBoy
Guest
Xi’sXoBoy
2 years ago
Reply to  Tim

Lots of white people in Finland. Careful, Tim. Someone might think you’re pushing white privilege.

Yabut
Guest
Yabut
2 years ago
Reply to  Tim

Well not quite. “Municipalities must always check with the reception situation centre of the Finnish Immigration Service to find out whether an individual has a right of residence in Finland. Municipalities are also obliged to refer illegal residents to the system of voluntary return. ”
And they are having the same problems Humboldt Co is having. To afford Healthcare governments are consolidating it towards population centers -think ACA- and leaving rural people without resources. “As funding shrinks for future generations, even more Finns could find their needs unmet, warns Heikki Hiilamo, a social policy analyst who has advised successive governments on how they might reform the system.
Unless it is reformed, he says, the Finnish system could become more unequal, with poor people and those who live in remote areas increasingly excluded from the very system that was designed to serve them – perhaps something for Sanders to keep in mind, as he mulls the Nordic model’s applications in America. “People outside of Finland tend to see only the good sides of the system,” says Hiilamo.”

https://stm.fi/en/social-security-and-services-of-asylum-seekers-in-finland/healthcare-and-social-welfare-for-illegal-residents
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/15/world/finland-health-care-intl/index.html

Permanently on Monitoring
Guest
Permanently on Monitoring
2 years ago
Reply to  Tim

Finland, <6 million people, homeless in danger of freezing…

California, 900 X 300 miles, nice climate, except in Portola or Cedarville or Weaverville or Eureka…

No comparison, and our leaders are not ancient, but they are stupid and pretty crooked…

Finland will be overrun by Jihadis, just as we are being…

According to the Finland official census (2022), there are 22,261 people in Finland belonging to registered Muslim communities. However, the vast majority of Muslims in Finland do not belong to any registered communities. It is estimated that there are between 120,000 and 130,000 Muslims in Finland (2.3%)

CsMisadventures
Guest
CsMisadventures
2 years ago

What does being Muslim have to do with being homeless, or are you just needing to vent about them too? Not seeing a point here.

D'Tucker Jebs
Member
2 years ago

It’s weird how much hate this topic evokes in people.

cranky old lady
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

It’s not so much hate as it is disgust. I do not understand why most of this antisocial, sociopathic behavior is just tolerated. I don’t know why prosecutors refuse to do their job and jail those who break the law. 99.5% of those who live on the streets have addiction issues and that needs to be acknowledged and addressed. I’d rather see tax money spent on court ordered drug treatment as opposed to shelter beds.

D'Tucker Jebs
Member
2 years ago

Do you have a source for your 99.5% claim?
What I’ve seen says very differently.
“Approximately 38% of all homeless people abuse alcohol. About 26% of all homeless people abuse drugs.” https://www.addictionhelp.com/addiction/homelessness/#:~:text

Yabut
Guest
Yabut
2 years ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

Actually did you give a link to something that said that recently? A UCSF study about people becoming homeless in the Srate not coming after they’re homeless? Your slink disingenuously failed to mention it but if you looked up the actual study it talked about 80% plus were uapsing.

Yabut
Guest
Yabut
2 years ago
Reply to  Tim

Spend some effort on investigating the Finnish word “sisu.” It is much investing in not complaining, being honest and self reliant. And trust in fellow citizens.

Then again there is anti-sisu. Complaining, distrusting and self important. “Using nationally representative panel data, as well as an original survey experiment, I find that perceived polarization directly undermines Americans’ trust in each other. ” As in “So many people come here (Finland) wanting to reap the benefits, but they refuse to adapt on any level to the culture here. What makes someone think they are entitled to the creme-de-la-creme of jobs when the competition is already fierce among people with the same qualifications who already speak Finnish, and more likely than not better English than them?”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8932466/

https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20200615-why-finnish-people-tell-the-truth

https://www.reddit.com/r/Finland/comments/17rtgr2/my_complaint_with_finland_as_an_american/

Tim
Guest
Tim
2 years ago
Reply to  Yabut

I agree that honesty and self-reliance are core skills that every successful society requires. What’s unfortunate in the US is that we’ve normalized lying and bullying to try and get our way. Until we hold our leaders and corporations as well as community members to the standards of honesty and humility across the board, we’re going to be fucked.

Last edited 2 years ago
Yabut
Guest
Yabut
2 years ago
Reply to  Tim

(Snorting) Community is where the corporations and leaders get their ethics before they are leaders or CEOs. Self-reliance and honesty is not a Progressive value. In fact, it seems roundly condemned by that group and certainly never seems to have a place in discussions. It’s usually called racism to require common social values in immigrants and as for self reliance as social value… well that simply has no place. Think of the hoots suggesting that gets.
But that misses the obvious that respect is given to sisu as in perseverance, grit, hardiness, etc and therefore leads to trust and honesty. Because it means that people will not be respected for doing less for themselves and thus are likely to be less of a burden to society. The welfare system in Finland relies on it.
One the other hand, especially as instanced by the most recent level of civil fraud in the US, thinking victimism excuses dishonesty and encourages getting back what has been unfairly denied. IE Progressive values. Can you imagine if a President said today “And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you — ask what you can do for your country?”

Zipline
Guest
Zipline
2 years ago
Reply to  Tim

Finland also has the highest test scores in school across the board.

D'Tucker Jebs
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Zipline

Our education system definitely needs an overhaul.
Unfortunately, that conversation can’t even get out the gate before people start whining about “woke ideology” and “indoctrination.”

Yabut
Guest
Yabut
2 years ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

Well if non-woke ideology was more functional at producing results even if it didn’t feel as pleasant, why not whine about it? Seems a suspicious correlation in that the more empathy the schools require for each student’s agenda, the less over-all actual useful education results. Maybe more of what has made people’s lives less secure is a bad idea.

D'Tucker Jebs
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Yabut

None of your comment makes any sense.

Yabut
Guest
Yabut
2 years ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

That comment is grasping a very unsubstantiated straw to support a very unreasoning opinion. Your lack of understanding is not my problem. Your willingness to use the most unreasonable words of dismissal to insult others is.

THC
Member
THC
2 years ago
Reply to  Tim

Finland has a population of under 6 million people and 90% of them are either finish or Danish, they have very strict immigration policies..

calcifer
Guest
calcifer
2 years ago

so many people out of touch cant see through their own hate goggles a fair assessment of anything. i wonder how your kids are doing. did you even read what she said? about how it gets to you and you end up that way? or do you really believe no one else is human because you arent either?

Poker Face
Guest
Poker Face
2 years ago
Reply to  calcifer

How many homeless have you personally taken off the street and gotten into housing?

Is it zero?

I’m betting it’s zero.

moviedad
Member
moviedad
2 years ago
Reply to  Poker Face

That’s a bullshit statement.
How many public roads have you repaired?
How many CA state restoration projects have you completed?
How many inmates are you housing?
I’m betting zero.
Yeah yeah, make an individual personally responsible for state/national problems.

Zipline
Guest
Zipline
2 years ago
Reply to  moviedad

It’s not a “bullshit” statement. Repairing roads takes equipment and skill, taking a homeless person into YOUR home just takes compassion. Try it and get back to us.

D'Tucker Jebs
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Zipline

It takes much more than just compassion.
Pretending that is the case isn’t helpful.

Permanently on Monitoring
Guest
Permanently on Monitoring
2 years ago
Reply to  calcifer
Yabut
Guest
Yabut
2 years ago
Reply to  calcifer

Hate goggles… like in telling other people how hateful they are?

Alf
Guest
Alf
2 years ago

It is illegal to trespass on private property. It is illegal to use drugs. It is illegal to trash the environment. It is illegal to assault, rob, harrass, and commit all manner of other crimes and general mayhem. It should be illegal to panhandle. If all of the actual laws were being followed by the homeless and they were required to work or do community service before receiving government funds it would look a lot different.

Because almost none of this population fits into the above, they also do not fall into a category where I can feel anything for them. I worked hard for 15 years “helping” this population. What I found out is they do not want anything but handouts. Well, they will never get that from me again until they do fit in to the above.

Bozo
Guest
Bozo
2 years ago

Humboldt county needs work camps.
I predict that the Bumz/Addicts/Tweakers will depart en-masse.
They will head to SF, Oakland, Sacramento, LA and San Diego !

Yabut
Guest
Yabut
2 years ago

Frankly what is being demanded is the right to poop on the streets, steal whatever is available, take whatever drugs are wanted, behave
Anyway chosen and spread then leave mountains of trash around. Oh, and intimidate everyone who is in the way if that is the impulse. That is also the conveniently unmentioned part of being homeless by this protest. Why do commenters always cherry pick meanings? And shout down any mention of that realistically complex?

Xi’sXoBoy
Guest
Xi’sXoBoy
2 years ago

Shut down all services for bums. They’ll go somewhere else.

Then there’s this little gem:

“An infestation of vermin refers to the presence of unwanted animals, typically pests like bums, tweakers, and drug addicts that invade cities and towns and commence stealing, causing damage and potentially spreading disease. The vermin can become nuisances to communities, citizens and taxpayers.”

I took the liberty of changing a few words to the definition, but it’s meaning is essentially the same.

Zipline
Guest
Zipline
2 years ago
Reply to  Xi’sXoBoy

Cancel “disability” payments. This would force the “homeless/mentality ill to use the multitude of services available. Sorry if this impinges on your worldview but if you don’t want to participate in society, society shouldn’t provide you with payment to accomplish this.

Kym Kemp
Admin
2 years ago
Reply to  Zipline

Possibly…just possibly…it is not so much that people don’t want to participate in society as they have mental health issues that make that difficult to impossible.

Yabut
Guest
Yabut
2 years ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

That is a philosophy rather than reality. There are many people with serious mental illnesses who, if they don’t participate, at least do not drag everyone down with them. Strangely enough, there are people who have serious mental problems that work every time their condition has a better phase or find work that that they can carry on despite their issues or at least work as long as they can.

Generally they are not substance abusers though. Or they have worked to overcome it because they value that kind of independence more than freedom to follow impulses. Substance abuse seems to be the permission slip to allow minimal effort at life’s hard issues.

Of course there are people are so ill that they can’t take care of themselves. But that is really less than 10% of the people who are homeless. It’s a common excuse to claim itbthough.

Kym Kemp
Admin
2 years ago
Reply to  Yabut

I’d classify substance abuse as a mental health issue. I don’t think “just say no” is a viable option–people need support while they learn how to go without. And our society sucks at providing help–for both mental illness and substance abuse.

Yabut
Guest
Yabut
2 years ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

However insisting that a drug addict has no control and is a victim of society is a sure prescription for them not doing the hard work involved in actually ending their own addiction. Apparently “our” society is more willing to encourage a drug addict to feel good about themselves, no matter how self damaging their behavior, by insisting their addiction is not a problem of their own making than to make them feel more self condemnation and give them the only chance they really have to address it realistically.
What society really sucks at is that the people with good intentions are permitted to float their own self worth in a sea unthinking sympathy in the place of reasoned and targeted but much harder to do care. That is what “support” looks like. Adhering to failed but pleasing emoting is what is wrong.

cranky old lady
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

It is classified as a mental health disorder under the definitions of the DSM-V, but again, it’s a disorder of choice. One can stop abusing drugs and alcohol; it’s hard, but people are successful every day.

D'Tucker Jebs
Member
2 years ago

Could you please provide links to free, high quality inpatient rehab facilities in the area that someone seeking treatment would be able to check in to?

Yabut
Guest
Yabut
2 years ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

Well most homeless shelters run one. But there are a lot of outpatient services listed on the Humboldt Co website. And many commercial ones are really good at getting insurance from MediCal or ACA to make it almost cost free. Crowd funding is the latest fad.
But it takes some wanting it to work through getting treatment with others paying for it. Not surprising as anything offered free will get a lot of people with no intention of doing serious work but willing for others to pay for meals and a bed for a short time.
I can see how you got to the point of saying it’s always the government’s responsiibility to fix people. If you think that dangling treatment is a good way to reforming people who don’t want to be reformed. That’s the only people able to spend that kind of money without result on a continuous basis.
https://humboldtgov.org/1014/Behavioral-Health-Services

cranky old lady
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

Having worked many years in the mental health field, I disagree, Kym. Addiction is an illness of choice. Brain chemistry in illnesses such as schizophrenia or uncontrolled bipolar that alters one’s perception of reality is not a choice. We need to stop making excuses for the addict, they are NOT mentally ill per se. Like the schizophrenic or bipolar patient, they can lead productive lives with proper treatment and support. Buprenorphine , Suboxone, methadone are all proven effective for the long term management of both meth and opioid addiction. The honestly mentally ill need care as well; leaving them to their own destruction is more cruel than ordering rehabilitation and treatment with a goal towards independence. But please don’t lump them in with an addict… in my experience, most schizophrenics don’t use street drugs and most bipolars are trying to self medicate rather than recreate. Drug treatment is the only way out of this “homeless” crisis, enabling them to self destruct is just horrid.

Zipline
Guest
Zipline
2 years ago
Reply to  Xi’sXoBoy

Humans are the most destructive “vermin” on the planet. Call me the Verminater.

Kym Kemp
Admin
2 years ago
Reply to  Xi’sXoBoy

Referring to homeless individuals and those struggling with addiction as “bums,” “tweakers,” or “vermin” is not only dehumanizing but also…um…verges…on hate speech. Such language contributes to the stigma and discrimination these vulnerable groups already face and does not lead to a constructive dialogue.

Our comment rules forbid hate speech. Comments that dehumanize or incite hatred towards any group can lead to moderation or removal to ensure a safe and respectful environment for all users.

We encourage constructive discussions rather than resorting to harmful rhetoric.

CsMisadventures
Guest
CsMisadventures
2 years ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

Some people exist online just to troll, Kym. What some of these folks don’t get is that a lot of them are one or two paychecks away from needing those services themselves, but here they are pissing and moaning about others. I’ve seen people become homeless by choice (e.g. “boondocking”), and by circumstance, whether their own fault and vices or others. I’ve watched people fall from their self-appointed perches of judgment in a matter of hours, from a multitude of unforeseen variables, addictions notwithstanding. I know. I spent a year living and working with them at the Mission to kick an alcohol habit. It’s easy to write them off as garbage, and completely exclude the fact that they’re still humans, while showing their own inability to be one. Solutions, though, are not one-size-fits-all and not everyone will benefit the same. Many will do better with enhanced services region wide, not just shelters and a couple beds at Semper virens. Though some resist or are repulsed by the fact that help exists, but are stuck in such a rut, they don’t know where to begin to reverse their situations. A lot of folks out there are isolated and in such a deep depression from whatever, all they really want is a friendly voice to get them through the day. Be that one to plant some humanity and watch people grow. People can start with just a “Hi.”.

Yabut
Guest
Yabut
2 years ago

Oh they get. Which is why they go to great effort to avoid it. Life’s not a Hallmark card for anyone.

fred krissman
Guest
fred krissman
2 years ago

Why do so few online commentators show ANY empathy? It’s often said that most Americans are a mere 2-3 paychecks away from being homeless themselves. Indeed, one bad injury or illness could do it…

I ran away from DV as at 14 yrs old, and lived on the streets for 3 yrs. However, it was the mid-60s, and we “hippies” formed communities on&beyond the streets that kept me far safer than the situation on the streets today.

Please try to find your humanity folks. I’ll show solidarity with those much less fortunate than me by going to the courthouse tomorrow @ noon.

Yabut
Guest
Yabut
2 years ago
Reply to  fred krissman

Why? Because empathy should not be extortion. Which is too often among commenters.

Thatguyinarcata
Guest
Thatguyinarcata
2 years ago
Reply to  Yabut

Who is being extorted and who is doing the extortion?

Why does.this topic elicit such a tremendously emotional response from you?

Yabut
Guest
Yabut
2 years ago

More like “Why does (my response on) on this topic elicit such a tremendously emotional response from you?” Because of decades talking with those who successfully overcame addiction and dealt with mental (and physical) illness while it’s likely you haven’t. Along with those who didn’t succeed until the imminent prospect of death forced a change in their behavior. Without actually having needing to be one in the first place. Just with understanding how people got there and massive respect for those who try.
Have you ever once examined the behavior of those who succeeded or only those trying to recover from having failed? They have very different but instructive takes.

Thatguyinarcata
Guest
Thatguyinarcata
2 years ago
Reply to  Yabut

I’m not really emotional about this topic. It’s sad to me to see the level of abject poverty in our community and it’s sad to me to be reminded how many other community members are in such a rush to express so much negativity about that abject poverty.

In my experience, the people who recover from homelessness that I’ve seen have a combination of self motivation and familial support. Either one can be present at such a tremendous level that the other isn’t even necessary, but typically it’s a balance of the two.

Do you have other characteristics that you would point to? Because the real question we need to confront as a society is how we mitigate the social harm caused by the people who lack the self motivation and familial support to overcome the mental illness/drug addiction that leads to chronic homelessness

Sigh
Guest
Sigh
2 years ago

My experience with those that are on the streets is that the ones who want help, will get it any way they can. The rest don’t want it. They like “living free” as the rest of us feed them, clothe, and TRY to help them. It’s “anarchy” man! I think my heart finally bled out. Well of compassion has run dry, throwing my hands up and walking away. I hope smarter folks that I am can figure this one out as it gets worse daily.

CsMisadventures
Guest
CsMisadventures
2 years ago
Reply to  Sigh

You would be correct. Those that look for the help, find it. Those that don’t, will not. Some are perfectly content with their situation. There are more than a few programs that will help, some public, some private. The hard part is getting folks to come into an office or shelter and get signed up for things. Lots of folks don’t want to be part of “the system”, that is, have a SSN or DL# attached to anything. They want to be invisible as possible for a hundred different reasons. Often because an individual might have an arrest warrant (or several) or have a PC288/290 (child molestation or other crime of sexual nature which will prohibit many forms of aid or even sheltering) hanging over their heads and are hiding such from being known. Private assistance is not as personally identifiable, that is, those looking for help aren’t buried in a ream of forms to fill out just to get benefits or a roof over their head. Some will need help just making a phone call. Also, what also doesn’t help, is government has to quantify everything they do, so if not enough folks sign up for assistance, those budgets get cut, and certain aid is no longer available. And then you get the revolving door of the jail since sleeping on a curb, even higher than a kite, is only a misdemeanor, or a citation, so don’t blame the police for not doing their jobs. They don’t get to, really.

Yabut
Guest
Yabut
2 years ago

Fear. Fear of not having the chemical crutch which has been their solution to escaping unhappiness but eventually only increases misery. It’s really awful that people’s sense of self worth is so powerfully undermined by addictions. But even if only a few can escape it before they have to go through such misery, it’s worth the effort to hector, nag and condemn. Then reward, affirm and treasure. There needs to be an alternative offered. Which IMHO is only satisfaction offered by respecting their work. Everything else is too uncertain for a society to offer. But satisfaction in work is one. Belittled these days but still powerful.

A Friend Of Dorothy
Guest
A Friend Of Dorothy
2 years ago

I just visited my homeless friend today. She is a senior who can barely walk now. We bought her a winter tent so she wouldn’t freeze to death. We bring her food so she stays fed. She is still so traumatized from her boyfriend who used to abuse her. She would hide out in 12″ of snow in the woods in a tent for days at a time, sometimes in the backyard shed hiding from him. He would shoot bullets at the walls of the shed and yell at her. I thought he would kill her sometimes. She is so messed up and trusts practically no one.

cranky old lady
Member
2 years ago

So why don’t you take her in? I’d love to know why you’d rather visit her in a tent as opposed to giving her a bed at your house.

Yabut
Guest
Yabut
2 years ago

The answer is right there- “messed up and trusts practically no one.” There is this delusion that is ever presented in comments that, if what the commenter finds good is just given, the recipient magically becomes what she has never chosen to be before. That it is circumstances that make her homeless rather than her being homeless because of who she is.
Chronic homelessness need chronic care and in the end only is marginally successful. And without a guarantee of success in the end.
https://cronkitenews.azpbs.org/howardcenter/caring-for-covid-homeless/stories/homeless-funding-housing-first.html

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
2 years ago

From the article:

“Lafoon pointed out that the root cause of homelessness is the lack of affordable housing.”

This statement is completely false!

The root cause of homelessness in almost every case is drug or alcohol addiction and/or untreated mental illness.

Our streets, parks, waterways and forests are “home” to an increasing number of “unhoused” people for 2 primary reasons.

1) The LPS Act (Lanterman-Petris-Short) – passed in 1967 – made it illegal to REQUIRE mental health treatment in California and the current state of the law makes it equally difficult to REQUIRE treatment for drug or alcohol addiction.

Instead, many homeless people are paid $1,100 or more monthly, which means the State is subsidizing homelessness instead of combatting it.

2) The problem was compounded when Martin v. Boise held there was a constitutional right to sleep on public property when no other alternative was available.

But the real damage from M v. B has been the way it’s been misinterpreted. Nothing in M v. B recognized a “right” to set up semi-permanent tent cities and backwoods bum camps.

Cities can adopt time, place and manner restrictions by requiring tents and any camp gear be taken down each day except between 10pm-7am, etcetera.

And as pointed out by others, trespass, littering, defecating in public, drug dealing, etc. are still illegal.

The Grants Pass case before the Supreme Court is all or nothing which makes it a gamble.

If the Grants Pass law is upheld it would allow cities to cite or arrest people sleeping in public. But if Grants is overturned it will have the effect of solidifying misinterpretations of M v. B.

Meanwhile, Newsome has squandered billions on housing without making a dent in the homelessness problem.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
2 years ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

I got paid $136 a month in GR which I have to pay every penny back but you are absolutely wrong In order to get $1,100 you must be determined by SSA as disabled which takes years and not all homeless people have that

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
2 years ago
Reply to  Anonymous

I said: “many homeless people are paid $1,100 or more monthly” – which is an absolutely true statement!

Sorry you weren’t able to successfully fake a mental or physical disability but many others were.

In many cases the monthly cash infusion is helping homeless drug addicts and alcoholics stay homeless.

Without that monthly check they’d be more willing to seek treatment.

Martin
Guest
2 years ago

I majority of these folks protesting “Right 2 Rest” are just plain lazy, on drugs or have a variety of mental problems. Many live in camps which turn into dumps full of human waste, thrown out needles, broken glass, stolen items, etc. Propane bottles are used for heating, cooking and once in a while starting a fire which calls out the local fire department to put out. An occasional burn victim is found severely burned or deceased by fire. Many refuse to accept any help offered to them, choosing to just continue as they are. They are a blight on our society and somehow the problem needs to be fixed. There does not seem to be any easy answers, but something needs to start to turn around this problem once and for all.