Eureka Council Approves Fee System for Abandoned Shopping Carts Despite Business Concerns in Split Vote
Stock photo by David Ireland on Unsplash
Eureka is about to step up action on getting stolen shopping carts off the streets but there’s debate on whether charging businesses a fee for doing so is double-punishing theft victims.
Introduced earlier this month, an ordinance amendment on a new shopping cart recovery method got final approval at the Aug. 19 city council meeting in a close vote.
The amendment updates the city’s system of handling abandoned carts. They’re either taken to the dump or to the city’s Public Works corp yard and although fees can be charged, they haven’t been because carts aren’t being tracked.
That changes with the amendment, as a new system will include tagging and photographing recovered carts, and uploading their locations into a GIS database.
Under the new protocol, a $50 fee will be charged if carts are returned to businesses or if they’re disposed of.
Councilmember Mario Fernandez reiterated his concerns about impacting small businesses and asked City Attorney Robert Black if the fine can be based on business size.
Black said it can’t be, as law requires fees to be based on cost recovery.
The cost of dealing with carts also includes staff time and Councilmember Leslie Castellano said not charging a fee means the city is “basically spending taxpayer money.”
But Councilmember Renee Contreras-Deloach said business owners have told her they have carts with wheel locks but they can be disabled and she described the fee as an anti-business move.
“We have a situation where somebody who’s just doing business is being victimized, right? They’re being victimized by shoplifters or being victimized by people who are stealing their carts,” she continued. “And then we’re going to charge you a fee for that and I think the impression from some of the people that I talk to is that it is another move and a series of moves by the city that is not friendly to business and does not understand the pressures that they’re under.”
But the city is under pressure too.
“So do you feel like then, just to clarify this, that the general population should be paying for that out of the general fund – our taxpayers should be paying for that?” asked Mayor Kim Bergel.
Saying it’s a “very good question,” Contreras-DeLoach likened it to “expansion of law enforcement” and described it as a “roll-in” to other crime and nuisance-related response services.
Fernandez described the fee system as “inequitable to the smaller businesses that are already trying to do right by this.”
On a recent weekend, several carts were strewn along various segments of the Hikshari’ Trail and they were marked with logos of two businesses – WinCo and Wal Mart.
Chief Building Official Brenden Reilly said there are “a few businesses that we see the vast majority of carts from.”
Contreras-DeLoach asked about what the total cost to the city is for dealing with the issue but the information wasn’t readily available.
But Community Development Services Director Cristin Kenyon said record-keeping is part of the new system and council can also be presented with reports on how many carts are being recovered, where they’re being found and where they’re coming from.
When it came down to a vote, the amendment passed 3-2, with Fernandez and Contreras-DeLoach voting against it.
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So when the police see a person walking down the street pushing a shopping cart, why not arrest them and fine them the $50 fee to take care of the cart? Probably the reason being that a shopping cart thief doesn’t have any money so the city goes after someone who has money. Hey Eureka, it is all a part of having a police force. Enforce the current laws and there is no need to create new laws that cause problems for innocent people or business’s. A message to the homeowner, what if someone steals your bicycle out of your back yard and the police recover it. Should you have to pay a fee for that? Perhaps you should have to pay a fee just to report it, after all it does cause more expenses for the police force.
Eureka discourages businesses while nurturing the homeless…
Clearly, it’s not a friendly environment…
Arcata as well. I’ve stopped going to Guintoli altogether. I used to love the Dollar Tree, and my elderly folks who visit from out of state,( where this crap would never fly) cant stay at the Hampton Inn anymore. They’re 82, were accosted trying to get a coffee at McDonalds. I cant wait to get out of this hell hole.
Ditto, this state blows, they ruined it, paradise lost, gave away the farm, too many bleeding hearts, you reap what you sow
I am inclined to agree…
Arcata appears to be quite unlivable, from any perspective…
I cant wait to get out of this hell hole.
Let me know if you need help with your bus fare.
Once again, the Failed Eureka city council proves its incompetence. Police and fire, water, sewer, streets, city planing and building. The circle is becoming complete. Lots of nice big crubs for you to drive over and ruin your rims, but common theft is ignored.
Everyone here, please call into EPD to report carts on the street.
If you’re hitting curbs, maybe you shouldn’t be driving.
They did design these little mini curb extensions in the actual street that stick out and make the turning radius different than before, but they are so low they are hard to notice at times, I have hit them but I assume many others have also. They serve no valid purpose as far as I can reason.
Those have become a dangerous waste of taxpayer dollars. Many drivers hit them.
No California will be happy to issue you a commercial truck driving license so you can do some real damage.
Talking about all the curbs they put out in the intersections
PAVE YOUR HORRIBLE STREETS TRUMP WILL HELP U WOKE
Exactly what I was thinking about writing!
I don’t know you are talking about but there’s big money in carts!
https://youtu.be/X95o53Gepmg
Yup. And the untold story is, they’re being smuggled in from Canada, filled with beanie babies.
Protect your children!
It’s a fkking gold mine down there!
Farm it out. Set contract to spend less tax money. If you even save a nickel you’re ahead.
Don’t waste city or county man hours over this.
I know at least a dozen illegal aliens that would be all over the job.
Ppl pushing carts can’t pay a $50 fine
Wow, what a horseshit law!
Can someone please tell me exactly how the store is being negligent and why they should have the burden of paying a fine for an item that was STOLEN from them?
Ridiculous to charge the victim of theft to return the item.They should charge the thief if they catch them in the act of possession of stolen property,Then start adding it up once they hit 1000 start charging it as felony.Thats how the current laws are written.If they can enact a price amount for the cart would be even better the actual price is probly more around 200 per cart.Its the same people taking these carts and they will continue to do so especially if someone is legally required to pay for it.Hopfully the store still reserves thier right to defend thier property and take carts back but it’s my understanding they can’t, all they can do is call the cops which in turn they let person go and charge store 50.What are they supposed to do ,Oh just raise prices is the only option left.They can’t protect thier property or confront these people and then have to pay.This is crazy.
I would say carts are over 1000$ .
Yeah, but you can get them waaaay cheaper on the black market.
This is reminding me of the story of the bicycle thief.
Shopping carts range from $50 to $200.
Don’t believe everything you think.
I had that bumper sticker for years.
I hate to ask,
but why would you have a bumper sticker about the price of shopping carts?
Jebs, Jebs.
Snark on the Sabbath? Tsk, tsk.
I’m shocked, profoundly shocked.
Okay, you get an A for effort.
A bit over $50 but even the nice, bouji plastic ones are under $500.
But if you have to replace 100 of them a year, that’s a chunk of change.
There are some very intense videos online showing shopping carts melting in the sun in Phoenix.
It’s kinda sad. After all –
They just came there for a better life.
Arizona doesn’t care.
Because the city can create such things – that is why. The reason: the City is having a $$$ issue. Why: no more Green Rush. Have you seen the empty storefronts in town. County has similar problem – so expect more of the same.
Oh we had plenty of empty store fronts before legalization. There’s just more of them now. And what’s left of some are well….dispensaries. Because we need 15 of those apparently. Even the mall is shot now. They just defaulted on a huge loan (see Chiv’s site for it). $45 million for improvements that never happened and now the bank (Wells Fargo) wants to take the assets. Just one more thing biting the dust around here.
Maybe they can turn the PulpMall into a prison like Pelican Bay. The Dungeness Dungeon.
Great idea! Well but if that was its actual name I would think that it was a seedy crab joint with great food and peel off the road.
Prolly hit a shopping cart.
DisapPOINTed!!
The liberal policies have tanked every possible growth and healthy environment for residents. And tourists? Haha. Forget about it. I have ppl who visit from out of state who are mortified at whats allowed here.
I don’t think people really realize that the crushing of this towns economic independence was unilateral. No one wanted us to have it and many locals became empire’s collaborators due to propaganda. Time will expose it all
Going to be charging stores for items shoplifted. Clearly the stores fault. The logic is exactly the same.
No.
Why dont they just clear out these transients. I saw one shoplifting just inside the Winco doors a few days ago.
I pray your privilege in life remains unfaltering and you are never one of the unwanted.
Give up the privilege issue. Theft, trespassing and drug abuse are immoral and illegal regardless of your station in life. The most moral people I know are not privileged. Race, economic status, religious affiliation is not an excuse for stealing or any other illegal or immoral activities.
And the cost will be born by the customers, passed on by the vendors. Thanks for nothing, council members.
Let the law suites roll in and watch how fast they change their minds. Charging someone because someone stole from them , that is just what people have come to expect from our local governments as of late , maybe just maybe we can figure out that government doesnt have the answers and never will . Up next fining coke for bottles found and micky d’s for sandwich wrappers . But then what do we pay taxes for anyways ? Local governments have wasted so much of our tax dollars that they can no longer abide by their own rules and provide the services they were supposed to provide for the taxes already in place and now they are scrambling in an attempt to hide that fact . Hey local government you cant hide the road conditions you cant hide the problems you have created your end is coming
Law suits cost big bucks so not likely. However I agree that the mind set of government these days is “that government of the people, by the government, for the government, shall not perish from the earth.”
But then IDK why a business would not want to pick up the carts found anyway. Maybe not of use any more anyway?
What if they did some thing where anyone could get a permit to be a cart retriever and just like cars they can bill the corporation and their insurance for the cart, much like what happens to u if your car is stolen, the private towing company tows it and you owe them.
but then the city wouldn’t get the revenue .
Do you know the failed city of Eureka has a street sweeper? Thy used to. But now it is contracted out to Recolagy. The streets used to be swept once a week. Now it is once a month. Last week this asshat was sweeping and his hopper was full or malfunctioning. So no new dirt could be loaded into his truck. He just drove all over town leaving a trail of dirt, gravel, trash, and leaves. You could see where he had been for days. This operator makes about $80,000 a years, and we have to pay him, because the failed city of Eureka mandated the cost in our bill.
Well, what should they get paid? That’s not a job you give out to some kid right out of highschool. You can either pay them, or pay the city the same thing for the service.
So you are going to help by fining the co that you let get it stolen from . WTF This is double messed up . You better have the LEO’s arresting anyone caught walking with one for grand theft. Eureka council for the fail. Punishing the people that got ripped off is just Dumb . How about working with them and put recovery out to bid . I am sure someone would return them to the business for 20 $ and have the city pay for it since they can’t keep them safe from the thieves they like so much and let ruin or Trails and Green belts. AND WHY would you bring a cart that has the name on it to the corporate yard not to the business, STUPID
Simple answer, Eureka doesn’t deserve grocery stores. Close them, move out and leave the high minded irrationals to fend for themselves.
Punish the business owners for crimes committed by homeless people. Wow. What an idea.
I’m sorry I didn’t realize we were living in Bolshevik Russia.
Seriously room temperature IQ level shit right there.
I just came up with a great idea and it didn’t take a city council meeting to decide it
They won’t because council feels that’s demeaning to them. Also, how are you going to guarantee they show up? Or find them when they don’t? Being arrested 40 times for the same thing, only to be released, is a waste of time and your tax dollars.
Or….do like European stores do. 25 cents or such to be inserted to get a cart, and your quarter is returned when you put cart back into line.
That’s enough incentive to keep you from leaving it in the middle of the parking lot, not enough to keep someone from stealing it.
Not to mention any number of folks who race for their car in the rain and just say “F it” and leave it in the lot and forget all about the stupid token. And which part of Europe are we talking about here? That’s a big place with a lot of different cultures, languages, and methods of dealing with shopping carts, if they have any. Europe is not a “one size fits all” union.
It is done in Singapore
In S.F. you can’t take the cart into the parking lot. Have to drive your car to a loading area right in front of the store. Big barrier prevents carts from going anywhere…
Good approach, rich people would leave their carts in the lots and poor people would collect them for the $0.25.
Actually a very good idea. The fee should be significant, for example $5.00 to make it worthwhile to return the cart.
Now that might just be a solution. They do it in S.F. Good Idea so the city won’t do it. Good ideas are anathema.
Does the city or the county charge citizens for returning recovered stolen property?
Am I reading this wrong, or our does the mayor not realize that her question of rather the general population pays for this “fine” out of the general fund, or the tax payer. Aren’t they basically the same. Either way the tax payer is the one being punished for the action of the theif.
The problem that is not addressed is that the people that are responsible for the thefts and abandoning of these carts are not being held responsible, the tax payer and businesses are.
We pay higher costs for the “cart theft prevention measures” that the stores have to pay thru store cost increases. We get carts that have wheels with flat spots that make the carts noisy and cumbersome to use, or we are carrying bags to the car or home.
When you reach the senior citizen age, have children that you have to take with you when shopping, can only shop once or twice a month and do your shopping in bulk, or are disabled, the restrictions on cart can create problems.
Many stores don’t allow you to remove the carts from their stores, and because of theft, do not allow you to use your own carts in their stores. If you buy heavy items or have more than a couple of bags, you are carrying your purchases.
Stop cuddling the thieves and making the victim pay for society’s normalization of bad behavior. Make an ordinance that make them responsible for their own actions. Make the people responsible for their thefts and abandoning of the carts. Instead of fines, make them recover the carts and clean and repair the carts. This not only
makes them responsible for their actions, but also can teach them a skill and feeling of accomplishment.
I believe this would accomplish more than punishing the tax payer and businesses while turning a blind eye on bad behavior.
Coddle the thieves. Make everybody else pay. Yes- the stores will raise prices. Duh! Eureka again demonstrates their sense of caring and compassion- it is for the thieves, not the regular folk!
EPD “we found your stolen truck”
Victim “that’s great news. Thank you”
EPD “We will need to collect $2,000 for a finders fee”
Victim “excuse me?!”
How much do you think an impound yard would charge for storing your car?
The most over regulated city,county,state in the union by far. Hostile to business. Hostile to it’s citizens. The only needed function of any city is water in and sewage out. The rest is unnecessary. Maybe our fearless leaders could concentrate on this one function and eliminate everything else. Fire all these clowns and give us our money back. We are most certainly not getting our money’s worth from our “leaders”(sic)
Wow how completely fucking stupid
Saw a cart in the bay behind the mall yesterday, it was blue plastic.
I had no feelings about the issue until I saw it there. It’s corporate refuge from the extraction process. They should pay to clean up their garbage. It’s similar to the plastic bags thing which I also thought nothing of until I noticed how nice it was not to see plastic bags all over Arcata. When your right your right, when your wrong and realize your wrong then your also right, it’s the time in between that is the struggle.
One solution could be for the stores to eliminate shopping carts, bring your own. Another would be for the stores involved to go out of business. Not good alternatives but better than the stores paying $ 50.00 each to have their stolen carts returned and the expense being passed on to all of us.
Shopping Cart Ankle Bracelets with noisy alarm set off when they leave the premises or are tampered.
The taxpayers fund prisons! Why is this different?
Been reading the comments. This latest from the Eureka City Council is another demonstration of morons running the show. Can we vote them out? Vote them out for sanity sake! Remember their names, get your ass to the ballot box, and vote these idiots OUT! Legit comments of disgust are fine- but vote these morons out once and for all. Boom!
The problem is the people voting for these morons are morons. As George Carlin said…”this is the best we can do” our politicians are a product of our schools, parenting, churches, social values, etc. Garbage in, garbage out.
Lets punish the victim here. How about when a cop sees someone pushing a cort they stop them and arrest them. Their probable cause? The shopping cart it is stolen…….
This is the type of crap that makes the rest of the country roll their eyes at California’s idiocracy
Just another case of the shitbags of the ECC refusing to address the vagrant crimes. If you steal a shopping cart, you should be arrested and spend jail time and be required community service hours. Businesses once again take the hit and criminals get a free pass, collect their government benefits and so on. Please, ECC, do your job instead of making owning a business even more challenging. Either do your jobs or resign so someone competent can do it.
There is more crime being ignored then people know. HOW MANY METH LABS DO YOU SEE BEING BUSTED? THEY DONT MESS WITH TWEEKERS, THEY DONT SHOW UP TO COURT. BUT A POT GROWER. TOP PRIORITY. These people are stupid as shit. They are completely f##king worthless. And corrupt.
There has been posters claiming there are people giving people date rape drugs for decades now. Turn in a murderer and they say “that guy probably did poisen you, but don’t come back to fortuna with it”. No shit. They have their own priority and they don’t involve the public. HUMBOLDT COUNTY IN GENERAL IS THE WORST RAN PLACE I HAVE EVER SEEN.
I am a resident of New mexico know have been since June. One sixth of the cost of registration. Good hospitals cheap gas. And the police are just getting off federal oversight, so they are to scared to be dirty.
Now they should approve a fee for abandoned cars. 😏
I can offhand think of at least 2 or 3 potential solutions to this problem (which is really, really minor, in the bigger picture of the homelessness issue, and really kinda weird to focus on tbh), but they would all be considered “catering to” the homeless population and likely immediately draw the ire of the local bourgeousie of both the left and right. Heaven forbid someone have a cart to push their only possessions in life around in, let alone that cart be corporate property, right? I’m trying to think of a legitimately small local business that uses shopping carts which frequently get taken, and I can’t. Winco or GrossOut? Regional, and I’m sure they could take a hit without too much loss in profit. WalMart? Target? The Dollar chains? Oh boo effin hoo. Who else is smaller who has carts that are taken, who really suffers at all from this issue? Oh won’t somebody please think of the corporations!!
How about limited personhood status for corporations?
Wanna end homeless? war? Evil in most institutions??
end corporate personhood
might even fix capitalism
Sounds like a job for the Cart Narcs!!!
https://youtu.be/Z3fwCssFiAM?si=iYeXeLe7QsFq1bER
That is the best!!
If your car gets stolen you have to pay to get it back. This seems like a similar scam. Wtf do we pay taxes for if not public services?
I think we pay taxes so….we can be told what fees to pay?
Maybe address the homeless problem???
Victim blaming at its finest.
Businesses need to file a suit against City… this is ridiculous!