‘Leave the Wild…You Already Took Enough Land’: Native Voices Challenge Great Redwood Trail Development

The Grand Canyon of the Eel River, from Dos Rios to the Humboldt Redwoods, is the most rugged landscape within the 196-mile Eel River system. [Photo from Staff / The Wildlands Conservancy]

The Grand Canyon of the Eel River, from Dos Rios to the Humboldt Redwoods, is the most rugged landscape within the 196-mile Eel River system. [Photo from Staff / The Wildlands Conservancy]

The Great Redwood Trail (GRT) is a rails-to-trails project spearheaded by California Senator Mike McGuire to convert the defunct Northwest Pacific Railroad line into a 316-mile multi-use trail from San Francisco to Humboldt Bay. Supporters believe the trail will benefit tourism in Mendocino and Humboldt counties, where opponents raise multiple concerns. On May 19th, Michelle Merrifield, Nikcole Whipple, and other Pomo, Wailaki, Nomlacki, and Yuki Eel River tribal descendants, along with local allies, met at the Southern Humboldt Community Park as part of the Kinest’e Community Coalition. They argued that the planned trail, which passes through the rugged wilderness of the Eel River Canyon, hasn’t adequately consulted with them or addressed their concerns about land access for Native people, tribal control of ancestral homelands, sacred site security, and cultural resource protection.  The GRTA is “mandated to undertake the process of railbanking the former North Coast Railroad Authority rail corridor with the Surface Transportation Board,” according to the website. 

The Northwest Pacific Railroad was completed in October 1914. Its tracks were laid into the geologically unstable canyon along the Eel River corridor, part of the ancestral homeland of the Kinesté (pronounced Kin-es-tet) people, which is what the Wailaki called themselves before first contact.  Michelle Merrifield, a Wailaki and Nomlacki tribal member who lives in Round Valley, vehemently rejects the trail from start to finish. “In the 1910s, 1915s, [that railroad] basically bulldozed right through village sites, desecrated and decimated our lands and our ancestral burial sites,” she said in an interview at the Southern Humboldt Community Park on Sunday, May 19th, after hosting the Kinesté Community Coalition meeting opposing the trail. “If you look at the maps, you see, wow, there’s a lot of tribal people that had been there. Where are they? Where did they go? And that saddens me.” 

 She continued, “I’m a third-generation Round Valley native. So I had great grandparents that were up there in the mountains. And they were forcibly moved out of there. That’s what we hold onto – out there.” She gestured behind us, toward the hills behind Garberville that lead to the Eel River Canyon. “That’s our lineage. That’s our DNA, that’s where we come from. Where this trail is coming through is exploiting all of that information.”  

At a previous Kinesté Community Coalition meeting in Richardson’s Grove in September, Louisa Morris, a representative for the Great Redwood Trail Agency, suggested placing signage along the trail to educate hikers about the culturally sensitive sites surrounding them. 

Merrifield doesn’t “think it’s necessary”: “Putting it on signs, that, ‘back in this time, these tribal people were here,’ or, ‘Oh, look at these village sites,’ ‘Oh, look at these petroglyphs’—that… that sounds like a tourist attraction for their trail.” 

Louisa Morris, when asked to comment on May 22nd, stated, “It was a suggestion–we would not want to do anything like that if tribal people (whose ancestors lived there) did not like the idea. We want to work with the Kinest’e Coalition, Wailaki people, tribal governments and members, to collaborate and create a trail project that we all feel good about. I believe that I speak for the Great Redwood Trail team when I say that we want to listen, respect, and find a way forward together with everyone’s ideas, values, and input.” 

Page 50 of the Draft Master Plan currently suggests “Install interpretive signage and tribal artwork along the trail that is developed by local tribal people.”

GRTA Executive Director Elaine Hogan added via phone on May 25th, “Any signage that is put along the trail that has anything to do with the history of Native American tribes will be done in partnership with Native American tribes. So it would not be us creating the language. That would very much be done in partnership. So, I understand that there’s a very delicate balance between exploiting Native history for the benefits of tourism, and authentic representation of the history.”

In an earlier interview with Merrifield on April 10th in Round Valley, she expressed that the GRTA prioritizes outsider tourism above the needs of Native people: “Our territory, we had our village sites in there. When they herded us out of that area and into Round Valley, we weren’t able to get back up there. It’s fenced, it’s no trespassing, we’ll be shot on sight. We wonder how to get back in there.” Merrifield asked, how can tribes be expected, or “pushed,” to consult about this trail, “when they haven’t even been allowed to return to that land? Letting strangers through there, but WE haven’t been back yet.”

Merrifield chuckled, “Then, the Great Redwood Trail people, they go, ‘You get to go back up in your territory again!  Yay!’ And we’re like… no, that’s not how we’re asking. So the Wildlands Conservancy, now they’re saying, ‘It’s open to the public! Tribal people come too!’”  Too? “We haven’t been out there in over a hundred years. There were a lot of massacres of tribal people up there. They herded hundreds of families, tribal members [to Round Valley]. And they had the Citizens Militia, paid to hunt down tribal people.”

Merrifield continued, “We’re acclimated to Round Valley just because this is our home site now. But some refer to it as a concentration camp because that’s how they treated us when we got here. Our roll numbers, our ID numbers, you know, might as well tattoo that on us as well.”

On October 14th 2023, at the Dyerville Overlook Great Redwood Trail Community Event, Nikcole Whipple,  Round Valley tribal member, Nomlacki and Yuki descendent, and Save California Salmon representative for the Eel River region, described the term “public lands” as eliciting the feeling of a blow to the chest: “Every time I hear ‘public lands,’ it’s like a stab in my heart, [since] why we have these public lands is because they were stolen from the tribes.”

When asked, “What does the term ‘public land’ mean to you,” Elaine Hogan responded via phone interview on May 25th: “So, since the massacres of the Wailaki people in the 1850s and 60s, they’ve been cut off from their ancestral lands. And displaced. And the creation of the Great Redwood Trail is an opportunity for us to partner, a government agency, the Great Redwood Trail Agency, to partner with the Wailaki people, to gain access to that land and to be able to have stewardship of that land.” 

Hogan continued, “And it’s also an opportunity to, to clean up the hazardous waste left from the railroad industry. And for Native people to gain access to their former village sites and cultural sites that are of importance to them. By the land being opened up to the public, it represents an opportunity for them to have stewardship over it, to work in partnership with us, as a public agency, the Great Redwood Trail agency, to work in partnership with us to steward those lands. And so I see it as a real opportunity.”

Hogan added, “There’s a permitting system we are planning to have in the Eel River Canyon. I mean, we could even…” She paused, then laughed, “I mean, we have so many ideas, … honestly, we just haven’t gotten to the point to have that dialogue with them. But, you know, we could have things like Native-guided tours of the Eel River Canyon. Where the elders of the tribe have trained the youth to be backpacking guides that lead people on tours of that area, and walk them through the cultural sites. We could create village sites, replicas, similar to what is in Sue-meg village in Trinidad.”

During the May 19th Kinest’e Community Coalition meeting opposing the trail, Merrifield emphasized, “At least know the history of why we’re resistant to just opening that up to the public. I mean, there is a history that is not settled with tribal people up there.”

Merrifield reiterated, “There had been a lot of genocide of our tribal people in… those backwoods, the wilderness areas.”  The Great Redwood Trail strikes Merrifield as a continuation of a “settler, colonial” enterprise. When the colonial rush to know the world swept through her ancestor’s landscape, cultural genocide in the Eel River Canyon was facilitated by the very railway system that the Great Redwood Trail is now “capitalizing on.” She stated, “This trail makes it feel like that all over again.” 

Hogan responded on May 25th, “We are really looking forward to this trail being a place of healing for them, and not exacerbating scars of genocide with the creation of the railroads. So we’re really hoping to work in partnership with tribes.”

When asked where the Draft Master Plan addresses protecting cemeteries and petroglyphs, including rock art sites referred to by Eel River Wailaki tribal historian Ben Schill on May 19th as “the monuments of the Wailaki,” Hogan replied on May 25th, “The Draft Master Plan is the culmination of what we heard from all of our tribal engagement, our tribal partners and community stakeholders over the past two years. And so, the specific tribal recommendations that we heard are summarized into 13 tribal recommendations. I don’t have the exact page number. And one of them includes consulting with tribes to identify those culturally sensitive sites. And looking at potential reroutes. Or potential ways to mitigate harms to those sensitive, and culturally important, sites along the trail. At this point, we have received recommendations from tribes that those are things we need to pay attention to.” 

Ben Schill stated on May 19th, “Understand… Inaction to protect the vulnerable sites will make the [GRTA] board directly responsible for their future degradation.”

Merrifield added, “My thoughts on the wild up there, is, leave the wild to the wild and leave it alone. I mean, you already took enough land.” She went on, “The state of California sold that land. And that’s why some of the landowners have had that area up there for over 50 years, and they’ve kept it wild, they kept it to themselves, mostly…They settled there, that’s their property, and they don’t want it open to the public.”

Merrifield continued, “And this trail is going right through [the ranchers’] property. They’re like, ‘what are we going to do, if the public starts coming through? Using our bathrooms…’ It’s beautiful up there, but we’re not public people. We’re more private. You’re trying to push more [people] on through there? So, my campaign is opposing this trail. Or, let us be stewards of places we haven’t gone in for a very long time and help us preserve what we know to preserve.” 

Speaking to the concept of traditional ecological knowledge, Merrifield added, “There’s a lot of indigenous medicines out there, plant life. And, of course, animal life, that’s trying to come back after being wiped out, like martins and some fishers, and the elk. And condors that might come down from the Klamath River to the Eel River corridor. But they won’t if there’s backpackers and mountain bike traffic through there.” Merrifield referenced the Yurok Tribe Condor Restoration Program (YCRP), an example of the power of Native stewardship efforts to bring large gains, such as this apex scavenger, absent for over a century, back to the land. 

Merrifield additionally worries about the effect of the trail construction on the salmon runs. Eel River Wailaki historian Ben Schill concurred saying “The building of the railroad not only destroyed sites and cemeteries, but it dumped so much excavated material into the river that the huge salmon runs were terribly affected and remain a fraction of what they were.”

Perry Lincoln is the founding director of tribal nonprofit Native Health in Native Hands, or Cho-ge xo-la be’ (pronounced Cho-get ho-la-bet), a Wailaki phrase for “The medicine is in our hands.” He mused, “Do we think about the porcupine? Do we think about the eel? Do we think about all those other animals that are extinct? So many shell animals that were in the river are not even in the river anymore. So all of this adds up to what we’re talking about today. If we have a trail through the Eel River corridor, is it going to cause more damage to life?”

Merrifield spoke to feeling pressured and rushed to review Great Redwood Trail documents with a strained expression. “So they’re telling us that they’re taking our comments about this trail into consideration, but where are they taking them? Then they released the 586-page Draft Master Plan, to try to give us an idea of the game plan, but they gave us, what, 30, 60 days to make comments on it? That’s not right. It feels unfair–hurry up and read through that, and they give us a deadline.” 

Nikcole Whipple echoed Merrifield’s sentiment about having enough time to voice concerns. She referenced “the Bay Delta Project” and “the Voluntary Agreements used to fast-track the permitting process, bypassing CEQA and Tribal Consultation”: “The state intentionally held the CEQA process over a period of time during a holiday season, so none of the tribal governments were in office or working, and the 30 days lapsed, and so some of the big tribes in the Sacramento valley got left out and they are moving forward.” 

Whipple added,  “It’s a tactic, it’s what they do. We need to jump on providing public comment, otherwise we’ll get left out and told ‘Your time period already passed’.”  Whipple continued, “Something to include in our public comments are the fallacies documented in the Master Plan regarding tribal engagement. ‘Community engagement where tribal people are’ is not the same thing as tribal consultation. We know they didn’t reach out to this many tribal members. They didn’t consult. Their numbers are false.”

When asked to respond to Whipple’s comments, Elaine Hogan replied on May 25th that “60-day comment periods on government documents are pretty typical. However, we remain open to dialogue and communication. This is a multi-generational project and so this is not the only opportunity for input. This is really meant to be an ongoing dialogue and partnership over generations.” 

“I understand that a 60-day comment period may feel limiting,” Hogan continued, “but it is just the beginning of our interactions together. And I want people to feel like they can reach out to us, and ask us to come to their meetings.”

Hogan explained, “Part of the reason that we haven’t been able to have the individual conversations with the Wailaki about where, specifically, their cultural sites are that we need to avoid in constructing the trail, is because we don’t have funding for planning any of those parts of the trail, through the Eel River Canyon. What we have right now with the Draft Master Plan is a real high-level overview.”

Nikcole Whipple emphasized, “Every time we go into a meeting we’re told something differently. The agency will tell us there is plenty of time and the trail is not a done deal, and then in another meeting the agency will say that there is ‘legislation’ and the trail is a ‘done deal.’ We are continually misinformed, and it is confusing.”

Whipple added, “In Ukiah, the trail has been done for at least five years, and it’s a homeless encampment where multiple fatalities have occurred.”

Attorney Shannon Wilhite gestured to page 51 of the weighty draft Master Plan, printed in full at the May 19th Kineste Community Coalition meeting. She sighed, “There is a vision statement stating that they will work collaboratively with Native American tribes. And so far we haven’t seen it. A huge fault is that they state that they have been working collaboratively. But there hasn’t been any collaboration with most of the tribes, with the tribes that are opposing it, or have issues with it.”

Wilhite explained, “They talk a lot about Blue Lake Rancheria, who want the trail, and who they’re working closely with. But there’s our group and a bunch of other tribes that they’re not collaborating with. Round Valley Tribe, as Nikcole Whipple was saying, is over 5,000 members, and they only spoke to a handful of people. So they’re not really representing what the indigenous people are wanting.” 

Merrifield shared her opinion about the railroad debris. “You’re building a trail on top of an abandoned railroad track, and you don’t even plan on cleaning that up? Which they later came back and said, they MAY clean some stuff up. But they’re not telling us where it is, what it is, and when. So they just do a smoke screen, like, ‘We’re cleaning it up! Relax! Get off our backs!”

Merrifield went on, “Well, we wanna know where this ‘clean-up’ is going to take place. My 55 years of life, I’ve seen those old abandoned railroad tracks as like a scar on Mother Earth. From north to south, it looks terrible. We can see the abandoned railroad tunnels, we can see the creosote-soaked railroad ties still jutting out of the earth.”

 According to railstotrails.org, “If railroad ties are old, creosote may ooze out, leeching toxins into the soil and poisoning plant life, insects and small animals, the flora and fauna of the rivers.”

“There are railroad tracks dangling in mid-air, from the slides and earthquakes. And then there’s railroad cars along the banks. They purposefully left the railroad cars to rust and corrode along the banks of the water of the Eel River. I don’t like that. It bothers me, because if you look back in history, settlers haven’t cleaned up any of their garbage. It’s an eyesore to me,” sighed Merrifield. “It’s garbage, it’s not a natural habitat for wildlife. They are going to create more garbage, if they put any kind of porta potties…there’s no one to monitor any part of this trail to help clean up the garbage.” She emphasized, “More people… More garbage!”

At a December 17th event by Native Health in Native Hands, the “Na-Lu-La (Thank You in Wailaki) Celebration,” Behavioral Health Specialist and local tribal member Monica Super stated in her closing speech, “Our people believe there is an umbilical cord inside of the earth and it’s connected with the one we get from our mother… We have hundreds, if not thousands, of stories that tell about our ancient landscape and our sacred spaces, that are really set there by the creator as our health system.”

The Great Redwood Trail project holds complex implications for the communities it touches. While proponents emphasize potential economic benefits and increased public access to California’s rural beauty, some tribal members like Michelle Merrifield and Nikcole Whipple highlight deep-seated concerns about historical injustices, cultural preservation, and environmental impacts. For them, the trail is more than just a path through the wilderness; it intersects with their history, culture, and identity in a way that they fear could lead to further erosion of their connection to the land. 

 

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273 Please improve the conversation by disagreeing thoughtfully and backing your claims with facts
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Prometheus
Guest
Prometheus
2 years ago

The Great Redwood Trail (GRT) is an appalling and disastrous idea. We don’t want it or need it, Mike!

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
2 years ago
Reply to  Prometheus

The GRT is a costly boondoggle that will never be completed but if it helps McGuire get elected to statewide office isn’t it worth it?

And the Tribal people are finding out what many before them have found out – McGuire is all show and no go when it comes to giving a bleep about anyone’s opinion but his own.

Honey drips from his lips publicly until he’s not getting his way then the nasty side of his Jekyll and Hyde character comes out when he’s behind closed doors and he resorts to bullying, threats and intimidation to get his way.

Those tactics work with Sacramento and local political leaders and public employees who fear McGuire’s power but I’m betting they won’t work with Tribal people.

suspence
Guest
suspence
2 years ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

I wonder if ppl said the same thing about the Pacific Crest Trail or the Appalachian Trail? Trails are popular and this offers a clean up opportunity also. Seems to me like the tribes don’t want much of anything built, except big ugly casinos, they like those.

Two Dogs
Guest
Two Dogs
2 years ago
Reply to  Prometheus

Odd how the concerns of the tribes and others so closely parallel those of people concerned with our open southern border.

Country Joe
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Two Dogs

I see absolutely no comparison between the two issues.

Two Dogs
Guest
Two Dogs
2 years ago
Reply to  Country Joe

Then you ain’t country.

Frank
Guest
Frank
2 years ago
Reply to  Prometheus

Just like the Appalachian trail and the PCT? I don’t think so!
it will be great!

Ed Voice
Guest
Ed Voice
2 years ago
Reply to  Frank

Here is an interview with Michelle Merrifield by Serenity Wood on KMUD News:

https://soundcloud.com/kmudnews/you-already-took-enough-land-michelle-merrifield-on-the-great-redwood-trail

Where at the Southern Humboldt Community Park (SHCP) on May 19th did this gathering take place, I don’t recall reading any public announcements about it, was there a “press release”?

Are the SHCP Board members also on-board with the Kinest’e Community Coalition, are they willing to promote this same sentiment, given they too own, operate and manage one of the areas largest indigenous peoples cultural sites?

Yes I said it.
Guest
Yes I said it.
2 years ago
Reply to  Frank

It will be a homeless encampment & a sewage cesspool.

John S
Member
John S
2 years ago
Reply to  Prometheus

Who is going to clean up all the trash left along the trail from the city dwellers? How long will it be before trees, rocks and other things are covered with tagging (spray paint) ? Over the past 40 yrs that kind of garbage has drastically increased here in Humboldt. The lack of respect for nature and the beauty of the area stands out like a sore thumb. What happened to the mind set of protecting what little wilderness we have left here in Humboldt? The great Redwood Trail will become The Great trash trail. It will only be a matter of time. Leave the wilderness ALONE!

Last edited 2 years ago
Dancreus Giabetes
Guest
Dancreus Giabetes
2 years ago
Reply to  John S

Do you have any examples of remote trails getting vandalized? Is this happening anywhere else but your imagination? This is happening in the Trinity Alps? King range?

Lou
Guest
Lou
2 years ago

It’s much too treacherous in the winter months to be in the eel river canyon and too dangerous because of the increased chances of human caused forest fires in the summer. So the GRT would be a complete waste of money. Leave it wild!!! Leave the canyon alone. Come out kayaking through it during the early summer months , like many have been doing for years. That is the best way to enjoy it.

Korina42
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Lou

So we should leave the railroad’s trash in the river? The GRTA spent 580 pages figuring this stuff out.

Unimpressed
Guest
Unimpressed
2 years ago
Reply to  Korina42

Been looking at railroad trash in the river since 64 I grew up swimming in and around those railroad cars. They call the stretch of river between fortuna and fernbridge the box car hole

Dancreus Giabetes
Guest
Dancreus Giabetes
2 years ago
Reply to  Lou

It’s much too treacherous in the winter months to be in the [King Range] and too dangerous because of the increased chances of human caused forest fires in the summer?

Heart Humboldt
Member
Heart Humboldt
2 years ago
Reply to  John S

Who is going to clean up all the trash left by the railroad? Even as Michelle laments in this article, the railroad left behind an environmental disaster. Would it be better to leave all the hazardous debris and toxic waste to continue polluting our river? And what about all the opportunities to restore fish habitat? All that sediment clogging up the many tributaries that the railroad dynamited to build crossings, should we just leave that habitat totally degraded?

Peaseblossom
Guest
Peaseblossom
2 years ago

The Great Redwood Trail strikes Merrifield as a continuation of a “settler, colonial” enterprise. When the colonial rush to know the world swept through her ancestor’s landscape, cultural genocide in the Eel River Canyon was facilitated by the very railway system that the Great Redwood Trail is now “capitalizing on.” She stated, “This trail makes it feel like that all over again.”

Here we go with people like Elaine hogan a paid mouthpiece for this project. Typical of white led government to ask the tribes to hurry up and comment. This land is about to be stolen again and what for? Where is the money coming from, how exactly is this going to improve the economy? Who is going to pay to extract hikers and bikers when they injure themselves and need medical treatment. Who is going to pay replacement for adjacent properties that will burn down when inevitably one of these Bay Area hipsters decides the no fires rules aren’t for them and starts a camp fire that gets away from them? Who is going to shoulder the increased fire liability insurance that the people will have to pay who live near there. This ill gotten plan benefits no one but a few people who live very far away who, if you do your market research, don’t have a lot of money. They aren’t t interested I. The cultural significance of the place. No, they are instagram whores who seek the next remote thrill. They won’t be dining in the expensive restaurants when they leave the trail. They’ll be getting a $10 block of cheese from the coop and a $15 loaf of bread and that will be their contribution to our economy before they leave.

This is a settler colonial enterprise with wide eyed whites looking at the grant funding and the big salaries they’re going to make to implement the plan all the while treating the indigenous people just as they always have.

John
Guest
John
2 years ago
Reply to  Peaseblossom

You make alot of valid points ,If the rail is no longer going to operate there the land it sits on should be given back to the people it was taken from illegally.Also the rails should be forced to remove tracks ,dirt ect and replace native habitats.By taking the land once again and making a new transit system, bike ,hike,is the same thing that the rail did.

Dancreus Giabetes
Guest
Dancreus Giabetes
2 years ago
Reply to  John

However, where and when did anyone propose returning the railroad to tribal ownership? Were the two ideas ever in competition? Did everyone just sit and wait until a decent idea got proposed, then discover their outrage? Is this the good being cast as the enemy of the perfect?
It seems like the trail is is like a dog who gets a chicken tied to its neck that another different dog killed. Return of the railway right of way to the tribes is a whole different struggle that won’t go anywhere if you just wait to say “NO” to a trail. Simply saying no doesn’t initiate your better idea. Even before white people stole the land there were shifting alliances, and change.
Are you actually angry about the idea of a trail, or are you projecting every wrong that happened over the last 110 years onto a walking path?
Step back a bit and read the room. Who are your allies? The descendants of the ones who forcibly stole your land and now own it? The oppose-anything-a-democrat-proposes crowd? They are chuckling as they watch you scuttle the trail! They’re plenty happy you all are picking up the fight as PC proxies.
The trail strikes me as a SALVAGE of a bad situation. No project will go back in time and undo the wrongs perpetrated.
And the concept of hikers scaring off the condors..GTF outa here with that! It degrades your credibility.
When you sit back and smuggly celebrate your victory over Huffman’s trail idea, then what? What have you got today that is so much better?

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
2 years ago

You question the credibility of the Tribal members but your own credibility is shredded when you call this “Huffman’s trail idea” – when this has always been a political stunt to advance State Senator Mike McGuire’s political fortunes – no matter how much taxpayer money gets thrown down this political rathole.

Dancreus Giabetes
Guest
Dancreus Giabetes
2 years ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

The trail might be a little fly tickling an old grave wound.
Whoever’s idea it was, seems like a conversion from a corridor of capitalist extractive export, to a use that is more egalitarian, and might exist for nature’s sake. 500 years ago the Eel canyon wasn’t any more or less pristine than the former meadows where the Pomo pumps sit today.
Is there a proposal for an exchange of an additional or equivalent chunk of State or Federal land? Now would be a good time to make it.
Is there a chance that not every trail hiker would be a descendant of a murderous pioneer? People from all over the World, who got here all different ways go out into nature, and that’s not unhealthy. Who’s to say they should stay in the crowded settlements buying junk from temu, while the Wailaki go subsist on acorns, and graveyards?
I’m just saying use an opportunity. I’m not saying anything against Native reparations, or sovereignty. you gotta really stretch to think a condor might fly past Eureka to go get harmed by hikers on the Eel.

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
2 years ago

You may think you’re replying to me but you’re not.

You’re ordering a trail off the glossy “Vote McGuire” menu but I hope you’re not too disappointed when the reality of this boondoggle sinks in.

Dancreus Giabetes
Guest
Dancreus Giabetes
2 years ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

Paradise was Yahi land. Should we halt reconstruction after the fire? It’s more desirable land. Do descendants of Native Californians only deserve the remotest canyons that were their last redoubts after their prime territory was taken? I would be shooting for ownership of the Port of Oakland if transportation infrastructure is the goal. That’s Ohlone land.

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
2 years ago

Again, your “reply” is not relevant to anything I said. At least you’re consistent!

CsMisadventures
Guest
CsMisadventures
2 years ago

Rail maintenance on the corridor, historically, was some of the most expensive per-mile in the US. Keeping trails clear, or just plain keeping in existence, is a challenge to say the least. People are betting that thousands of folks are going to spend their weekends volunteering in the middle of nowhere is also a challenge. It also has to be constant, not when some group decides to fix a tunnel access one week in May. Or a bridge, of which there are quite a few. All those have to be maintained properly, and I have yet to see a number put out, rather that seems to be an oft-buried figure.
I’m for trails (and rails for small outfits and recreation, they do bring in tourist $$ too) and have done a lot of trail maintenance over the years. You don’t just stroll in from one end some sunny day in flip-flops with some bug spray and take selfies for Instagram. It’s work, and the environment is always against you. At some point in a geologically unstable and wet region, you have to ask if keeping a link is really a good idea, regardless if you have the funding. It’s a lot of people with good backs with a lot of time (and knowledge) to get it done. For me, trail work is rather therapeutic, so that makes me a good candidate, but if you don’t know how to use a shovel or a pickaxe, or put in a hike, you aren’t much help, and you can get hurt pretty bad (like, broken ankles, not poison oak, parsnip burns or yellow jacket stings). That’s just being practical.

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
2 years ago

You cite a glaring weakness of McGuire’s trail plan – should the boondoggle trail ever be built he’s counting on “community partners” to maintain it.

That may work around Humboldt Bay and near other towns but in remote areas where there’s only a few trail users those community partners will be hard to find.

Korina42
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

I don’t think anyone’s expecting volunteers to do the backcountry trail maintenance. Chances are, and I admit I haven’t gone through the draft plan yet, they’ll be hiring people to do it.

Dan
Member
Dan
2 years ago
Reply to  Korina42

That is not true. For example, in Manila, pretend environmental posers established new trails throughout the dunes, resulting in uncontrolled erosion, loss of wildlife, loss of wetlands, and loss of migratory birds.
They could hire a thousand workers, but regaining our once vibrant coastline would still require fifty years.
It is catastrophic that a university known for its Natural Resource Department has been so silent while a moving dune has fragmented our peninsula, and the university is complicit.

Last edited 2 years ago
Dan too
Guest
Dan too
2 years ago
Reply to  Dan

How’s it going Uri? I thought you moved.

Dancreus Giabetes
Guest
Dancreus Giabetes
2 years ago

Is anyone decommissioning it otherwise?

lol
Guest
lol
2 years ago

Well put!

Randad
Guest
Randad
2 years ago

Thank you Dancreus for hitting so many nails on the head.

Heart Humboldt
Member
Heart Humboldt
2 years ago
Reply to  John

If the trail doesn’t happen, the easement goes away and the small strip of land returns to the colonial ranchers, many of whom had ancestors responsible for the genocide and land theft in the first place. Is that a better solution? Not saying the state of california isn’t also responsible for the horrible past, obviously the institution bears a great deal of responsibility, but this is a rare opportunity for Native (and non Native) people to have access to portions of that land again. I doubt the ranchers will invite Kineste people to come visit cultural sites if the easement is gone.

Susan Nolan
Guest
Susan Nolan
2 years ago
Reply to  Peaseblossom

The Northwestern Pacific Railroad was built in 1906, decades after the period of genocide.

CsMisadventures
Guest
CsMisadventures
2 years ago
Reply to  Susan Nolan

Land theft occurs daily.

Brian JACOB Hall
Guest
Brian JACOB Hall
2 years ago

Only when one doesn’t pay the property tax.

cranky old lady
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Susan Nolan

Shh! No one wants to hear the truth!
?

Humboldt County Line
Guest
Humboldt County Line
2 years ago
Reply to  Susan Nolan

Decades after? The Klamath fish war was in the 1970’s.

Dancreus Giabetes
Guest
Dancreus Giabetes
2 years ago

Different river. The siege at Pine Ridge and the occupation of Alcatraz were in the ’70s too.
The rail was put in decades after the most murderous of the genocidal activities by settlers in the Eel valley in the 1860’s-’80s.

Gary Whittaker
Guest
Gary Whittaker
2 years ago

The railroads got their profits and got out leaving a huge mess mostly everywhere they laid tracks. They sure didn’t care about any ecosystems. The damage is easy to see, and year after year it degrades more. Hold them responsible to clean it up!

Just Saying
Guest
Just Saying
2 years ago
Reply to  Gary Whittaker

Hold them responsible? You people are some of the most void of critical thinking ever to stumble onto this planet…….. You’re probably one of those imbeciles that thought suing PG&E was a good idea….. They were held really accountable…… like seriously, sometimes you people should just try silence. You people also think reparations in Cali is a sane plan????

Gary Whittaker
Guest
Gary Whittaker
2 years ago
Reply to  Just Saying

Hey… The railroads made the mess and made alot of money from it. Now they should clean it up. Maybe living in a mess is your lifestyle. Get off your couch and see the damages done by your railroad friends.

Country Joe
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Gary Whittaker

Those railroad tracks are worth plenty of money.

CsMisadventures
Guest
CsMisadventures
2 years ago
Reply to  Just Saying

PG&E outright said the rate increases were heavily influenced by “reparations” for all damage and loss of life from their “deferred maintenance”. WE pay for the lawsuits, not them.

CsMisadventures
Guest
CsMisadventures
2 years ago
Reply to  Gary Whittaker

By that rationale, then the very sidewalks you traverse on damage the ecosystem. Maintaining a trail rather than letting nature reclaim it is also eco-damage. The roof over your own head required a patch of the environment to be torn up. And who are you going to hold responsible? The folks that built and operated on those rails have been dead for years and the money long gone. Are you going to sue their grandkids or something?

Korina42
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Gary Whittaker

That railroad company doesn’t exist anymore.

Redwood Dan
Guest
Redwood Dan
2 years ago

Sounds like the government might take this opportunity and use its forked tongue to add to a list of 500+ broken treaties or agreements with native peoples.
“I cannot understand how the Government sends a man out to fight us, as it did General Miles, and then breaks his word. Such a government has something wrong about it. I cannot understand why so many chiefs are allowed to talk so many different ways, and promise so many different things. I have seen the Great Father Chief [President Hayes]; the Next Great Chief [Secretary of the Interior]; the Commissioner Chief; the Law Chief; and many other law chiefs [Congressmen] and they all say they are my friends, and that I shall have justice, but while all their mouths talk right I do not understand why nothing is done for my people. I have heard talk and talk but nothing is done. Good words do not last long unless they amount to something. Words do not pay for my dead people. They do not pay for my country now overrun by white men. They do not protect my father’s grave. They do not pay for my horses and cattle. Good words do not give me back my children. Good words will not make good the promise of your war chief, General Miles. Good words will not give my people a home where they can live in peace and take care of themselves. I am tired of talk that comes to nothing. It makes my heart sick when I remember all the good words and all the broken promises. There has been too much talking by men who had no right to talk. Too many misinterpretations have been made; too many misunderstandings have come up between the white men and the Indians. If the white man wants to live in peace with the Indian he can live in peace. There need be no trouble. Treat all men alike. Give them the same laws. Give them all an even chance to live and grow. All men were made by the same Great Spirit Chief. They are all brothers. The earth is the mother of all people, and all people should have equal rights upon it.”
Chief Joseph

Dancreus Giabetes
Guest
Dancreus Giabetes
2 years ago
Reply to  Redwood Dan

Sounds like the railway is a tiny thin strip through a whole lot more ancestral land that everyone is ignoring. Where was the proposal to return the right of way to the tribes? When was that put on the table? When did everyone propose returning the Mendo National Forest to the tribes? Did this little trail proposal DISTRACT you? Are you missing dinner because somebody didn’t give you a stick of gum?

Kicking Bull
Guest
Kicking Bull
2 years ago
Reply to  Redwood Dan

Re. forked tongues…
nasa/ nasha means ‘to deceive’ in Hebrew
All coincidences I’m sure
@ $24b/ yr
?

IMG_8224
Guest
Guest
Guest
2 years ago
Reply to  Kicking Bull

I think you posted on the wrong article, flat earth conspiracy theories go on the jail reports.

Kicking Bull
Guest
Kicking Bull
2 years ago
Reply to  Guest

This is not my beautiful house?
??‍♂️?‍? https://youtu.be/dYLdXd_frHg?si=vgy3D1Tw392xVAER ???‍♀️

Ernie Branscomb
Guest
Ernie Branscomb
2 years ago

Make tribal lands great again.

wantsto know
Guest
wantsto know
2 years ago

In a way this is a relief. I’ve been wondering what are they thinking ever since this boondoggle was dreamed up. In so many ways and for so many reasons, the GRT is a disaster in the making…

Karl Verick
Guest
Karl Verick
2 years ago
Reply to  wantsto know

It’s right up there with the huge Boondoggle of the Appalachian Trail, and the bigger Boondoggle of the Pacific Crest Trail. Dammit, leave the Middle Fork to local people to drive their ATVs on and throw empty whippets into the river. It’s Sacred Land!

Korina42
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Karl Verick

Don’t forget the Katy Trail in Missouri; that’s the one most similar to the GRT.

c u 2morrow
Member
2 years ago

another land grab ?

Korina42
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  c u 2morrow

No, it’s already a public right-of-way.

Mota Joe
Member
Mota Joe
2 years ago

Every child born into this world enters with a clean slate. Children are not responsible for the misdeeds of their ancestors. A white child born into this world has no less rights to it than a native child. Selfishness and resentment are not anyone’s fault but the people harboring selfishness and resentment. The past is dead history and cannot be undone. All we can do is learn from it. Peace. Natives included.

Farce
Guest
Farce
2 years ago
Reply to  Mota Joe

Umm….white children born into wealthy families where the wealth was accumulated by oppressing, killing and enslaving other people are not responsible for that behavior. You are correct! However…that disgustingly ill-gotten wealth should be taken away from their families. They can be good old working-class white people like the rest of us! Instead of having US pony up the funds for paying for their rip-offs! Wealthy descendants of bloodthirsty and cruel murderers do not deserve any of that blood money…but I don’t blame them for the behavior of their grandfathers and parents.

Mary Ann
Guest
Mary Ann
2 years ago

Certainly this is a complex and controversial subject. I’d like to give kudos to an up and coming writer, Serenity Wood, a 20-something Southern Humboldt native, who has done a great job of presenting diverse views.

Ed Thyssen
Guest
Ed Thyssen
2 years ago

If this trail is built, its guaranteed that it will soon become a giant, elongated bum camp. Bums, degenerates, druggies, and undesirable riff–raff of every strip will be camping along this trail. We can expect trash, used needles, and of course frequent bum fires. The trail will soon become far too dangerous for anyone who is a real person who wishes to hike and enjoy nature and the outdoors.

This is a terrible idea.

Espino
Guest
Espino
2 years ago
Reply to  Ed Thyssen

Boy, good assessment. You are 100% correct.

D'Tucker Jebs
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Ed Thyssen

You seem to be imagining something that is not even remotely plausible.

Thatguyinarcata
Guest
Thatguyinarcata
2 years ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

Haven’t you heard?

The homeless population is simultaneously fully dependent on government handouts and can barely pull themselves out of their bush to get their government freebies and also are highly agentic and will move long distances in pursuit of more free services or, apparently, remote stretches of wilderness hiking trail.

It’s pretty remarkable that they’re able to accomplish so much while doing so little

c u 2morrow
Member
2 years ago

too lazy and physically unfit to be separated from civilization for long periods of time without seeking services or supplies.

Ernie Branscomb
Guest
Ernie Branscomb
2 years ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

Jebs is right this time. Not even an insane person would live out in the wilderness and expect to gain anything. They like to live in your face and live off frequent handouts. Nobody that has to pack everything in and out will be willing to part with their stuff. “bums” want to live as close to Betty Chin as possible.

Last edited 2 years ago
Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
2 years ago

You’re forgetting the SoHum bum camps, many of which are in steep isolated terrain.

Ernie Branscomb
Guest
Ernie Branscomb
2 years ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

I don’t consider a 10 minute walk to be remote…

Jim Brickley
Guest
Jim Brickley
2 years ago
Reply to  Ed Thyssen

Well, at least in segments close to town, can’t see these folks hiking more than a couple miles.

Moshe Doshan
Guest
Moshe Doshan
2 years ago
Reply to  Ed Thyssen

Homeless people generally stay within a few miles of grocery stores and gas stations. Some adventurous hobos might go out and explore the Eel river Canyon but your typical houseless person with addiction/mental health issues won’t be hiking the GRT.

ABA
Guest
ABA
2 years ago
Reply to  Ed Thyssen

Bullshit.

Mary Ann
Guest
Mary Ann
2 years ago
Reply to  Ed Thyssen

Considering there are no facilities (groceries especially) in/near Alderpoint, highly unlikely “bums” will be moving out there. People gravitate towards populated areas with supplies.

Country Joe
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Ed Thyssen

Spot on. I wouldn’t want to be a landowner next to this boondoggle. People will be jumping the trail looking for pot grows. The bum camps will start wildfires.

Korina42
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Country Joe

Do you really believe anyone will hike 50 miles in 90 degree heat looking for pot when they can walk to the nearest dispensary? And do you really believe anyone will hike 50 miles in 90 degree heat to set up camp 50 miles from the nearest grocery store/drug dealer/money opportunity?

Dancreus Giabetes
Guest
Dancreus Giabetes
2 years ago
Reply to  Country Joe

Why aren’t the bums there now!?

Local Resident
Guest
Local Resident
2 years ago
Reply to  Ed Thyssen

You are incorrect, as the many other long hiking trails in the US demonstrate. Appalachian trail, Pacific Crest trail, Long Trail, etc. Essentially zero issues with bum camps. Bums don’t live in the woods far from society. They need to be close to population centers for their resources. If your argument was correct bums could be living all over the vast National Forests that cover 100s of thousands of acres in California. They could easily live there undisturbed. They don’t. They’re not there, there in towns and cities.

c u 2morrow
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Ed Thyssen

not if it’s too far removed from civilization. . Bums, degenerates, druggies, and undesirable riff–raff need civilization to survive.

Espino
Guest
Espino
2 years ago

Hiking trail bad. Partnering up with cartels who use illegal chemicals, cut down trees, and poison wildlife good.

Dancreus Giabetes
Guest
Dancreus Giabetes
2 years ago
Reply to  Espino

So… Like everywhere beside the tracks?

I like stars
Guest
I like stars
2 years ago

Hogan – “But, you know, we could have things like Native-guided tours of the Eel River Canyon. Where the elders of the tribe have trained the youth to be backpacking guides that lead people on tours of that area, and walk them through the cultural sites. We could create village sites, replicas, similar to what is in Sue-meg village in Trinidad.”

Apparently Hogan doesn’t understand that folks might not want outsiders trampling their sacred sites, even if there is a profit to be made. Perhaps Hogan holds nothing sacred except for the dollar bill.

Last edited 2 years ago
old guy
Guest
old guy
2 years ago
Reply to  I like stars

disneyland without rides

Korina42
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  I like stars

Perhaps Hogan started her job last month and the agency is still figuring this stuff out. Sheesh.

I am a robot
Guest
I am a robot
2 years ago

The people who are promoting this should be embarrassed and ashamed. 150 years of genocide and theft cannot be compensated with “culturally sensative signage”.
Give back the land that was stolen.

D'Tucker Jebs
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  I am a robot

Does that include all the ranch land and timberlands in the surrounding areas?

I am a robot
Guest
I am a robot
2 years ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

Of course. There are a few cattle and some timber, but nothing that cannot be managed by the indigenous people. The people who now “own” the land, stole the land or bought it from someone who did. Ceding it back is a reparation…it needs to be done.

Korina42
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  I am a robot

Tell that to the current landowners.

c u 2morrow
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  I am a robot

borg initiative

suspence
Guest
suspence
2 years ago
Reply to  I am a robot

That’s incredibly naïve.

Farce
Guest
Farce
2 years ago
Reply to  suspence

Not really. Just get a satellite program, identify all the unpermitted structures, fine them $10,000 per day per violation via a letter from the county. then have John Ford and his Mendocino counterpart offer them an out- just sign over the land. Ask the Humboldt County supervisors- I’m sure they could make it work!

CsMisadventures
Guest
CsMisadventures
2 years ago
Reply to  I am a robot

Indeed. If the land is never going to see an inch of rail on it again, unless the tribes start up their own version of the Skunk Train or what Timber Heritage runs around with, then give it back. Not a tough decision. The rail didn’t have to be there in the first place (anyone remember the East-West proposed line?), so just move it somewhere else. It’s ok to use already-paved portions (e.g. Ave. of the Giants) for the route.

Oh, but it’s technically still Federal land, so everyone has to eventually take a back seat to what it decides is best for us. The meetings and public comments are just formalities.

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
2 years ago

The old RR ROW is not Federal land – it is owned by the Great Redwood Trail Agency, a State agency that succeeded the North Coast Railroad Authority, another State agency.

Not clear what, if anything the tribes could or would do with a strip of land that is mostly 70’ to 100’ feet wide.

Not at all practical to build and maintain a trail over active landslides or areas where the ROW has washed down the river, anymore than it was to maintain the rail.

Better to let title revert to the neighboring land owners which is what many of the original ROW easements call for.

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
2 years ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

There is a reason why the original trail through much of this area was the Bell Springs Road/Dyerville Loop Road/ Old Overland Route…

They knew to stick with the ridges as much as possible to avoid impassable Creek crossings and the impassable toes of countless unstable, ever moving landslides…

The GRT follows a hopelessly untenable route and pathway…

It’s a foolish pipedream with no realistic future that will never, ever, pencil out…

It’s the very definition of “Boondoggle”…

To say that the GRT is a fiscally irresponsible undertaking wouldn’t be even scratching the surface…

Last edited 2 years ago
Farce
Guest
Farce
2 years ago
Reply to  The Real Guest

The original wagon roads that became our car roads were mostly following old Native American trails. They were developed over generations of use by very local people who really understood the geology and geography. And yes- of course they followed ridgetops because of the reasons you said. I’ve walked lots of old skid roads that traverse toes and ankles and dip across countless drainages….beautiful flat sections that then disappear off the hill in slides only to reappear on the far side but with no good way across. This “trail” might be achieved with a thousand chinamen or some slave labor but we don’t do that anymore…the modern costs will be insane

CsMisadventures
Guest
CsMisadventures
2 years ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

It was, but it is still….a government agency. But yes, I’m agreement where that dental floss of land crosses theirs should be left for them to decide, ideally, or let go back to nature (as it has in some places) at the very least. Trail maintenance on a 40-60 degree slopes can be a b**ch on a good day, and that’s with people (like me) that are still able to.

Korina42
Member
2 years ago

That’s the beauty of rail trails; trains could only handle max 5% slopes, so there’s no 40-60 degrees anywhere.

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
2 years ago
Reply to  Korina42

You are unclear on the concept…

The 40-60 degree slopes mentioned would be understood to run perpendicular to the tracks or trail, not parallel to, nor inline with them…

Think about the difficulty of maintaining a trail running sidehill on a 40-60 degree slope, which was the idea, not up it, nor down it.

Korina42
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  The Real Guest

Ah. Yeah, that is tricky; something for the engineers and geologists to stress over.

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
2 years ago
Reply to  Korina42

Maybe you’d like to retract your statement and add a correction…???

It seems we have all had a similar conversation before, about 15 months ago…

(The steps are happening very slowly and unsteadily already…)

https://kymkemp.com/2023/03/01/another-step-towards-the-great-redwood-trail/#comment-1612938

Here’s a little excerpt…

https://kymkemp.com/2023/03/01/another-step-towards-the-great-redwood-trail/#comment-1612938

Last edited 2 years ago
yesmeagain
Guest
yesmeagain
2 years ago
Reply to  I am a robot

So who’s willing to give up their land, Robot? Are you? Because ALL of us live on Native land. Give back the land that was stolen! Why not?

Jeffersonian
Guest
Jeffersonian
2 years ago

This is a massive waste of taxpayer money without even considering the huge costs of annual maintenance. It will only be used a few months of the year. And where are all the users going to poop. This is remote and inaccessible country. Just a silly liberal pipe dream by big city Mike.

old guy
Guest
old guy
2 years ago
Reply to  Jeffersonian

and, when ems or rescues are needed, who is going to be the fiscally responsible party. and actually do the rescues ect.,the local vfd? the so? the tribe? railroad ?

D'Tucker Jebs
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Jeffersonian

All of this has been considered.
Just because you weren’t involved doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
2 years ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

Jebs said:

“All of this has been considered.”

Yes, it’s all been endlessly talked about but where is the list of “community partners” for each section of trail and what funding sources have been identified?

What? No list of community partners? No funding sources identified?

Which means the idea of a properly supervised and maintained trail, especially in remote areas, is nothing more than magical thinking.

D'Tucker Jebs
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

as was mentioned in another comment: Lost Coast, Pacific Crest, Continental Divide…
This isn’t the first trail that’s been built in a rugged and remote area.
Do you seriously think that things like safety and sanitation haven’t been considered?

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
2 years ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

Les just say it’s highly doubtful that we will be seeing Mike Maguire at the Southern Humboldt Technical Rescue Fundraiser at the Garberville Town Square on June 7th…

And the Great Redwood Trail will face unique seasonal challenges to EMS access, that are not present elsewhere…

Not to say that the other trails that you have mentioned don’t face their own unique, seasonal, EMS access challenges…

They definitely do…

That being said, safety and sanitation on the GRT have definitely not been PROPERLY considered, if they have been considered, at all…

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
2 years ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

The solutions to each situation are site specific.

None of your examples remotely compare to the challenges presented by the Eel River Canyon segment which is one of the most geologically unstable areas in the world.

It’s not like you can send in the CCCs to touch up the trail after it gets buried in multiple locations simultaneously by blue goo landslides.

D'Tucker Jebs
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

How soft so many in our nation seem to have become that such challenges are met exasperated cries of “This is impossible!”
There are trails in the Grand Canyon of the Colorado and in the Grand Canyon of the Tuolumne. Heck, over a hundred years ago people were able to build a railroad through the Grand Canyon of the Eel, but converting it into a trail is somehow too hard?

CsMisadventures
Guest
CsMisadventures
2 years ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

Have you even worked with these groups, volunteered with them, or hiked some of the trails you’re posting about? Have you sat in a single planning meeting? Some of us have. Some of the old rail beds along the Eel don’t even exist anymore and it was only 1998 that storms rendered them impassible and not even the Federal government was going to throw any more maintenance money at it. More has been erased by nature in just 26 years. Oh, and then we get to discuss the failing bridges and tunnel collapses. Want your precious trail? Fine. But you’re going to (and very wisely should) have to reroute it in a few places. But hey, go ahead and ignore the obvious because, reasons.

D'Tucker Jebs
Member
2 years ago

I’m not entirely sure what you’re trying to say-
or what you think I said for that matter.
Yes, I’ve hiked quite a few trails- some through some pretty treacherous terrain.
Will there be challenges that will need to be overcome in building this trail? Sure.
Will they be insurmountable? Of course not.

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
2 years ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

Will they be untenable…???

Certainly.

suspence
Guest
suspence
2 years ago
Reply to  The Real Guest

you have a crystal ball? no, just blabbing your opinion as if its fact.

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
2 years ago
Reply to  suspence

Do you have a magic wand…???

No, just wishful thinking on your part as if it was going to make this pipedream magically happen against all better judgement…

Dancreus Giabetes
Guest
Dancreus Giabetes
2 years ago
Reply to  The Real Guest

Trains full of stuff ran the route for 80 years. The whole system required profit beyond cost. A trail is different in so many ways.

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
2 years ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

Why did the trains stop running over 25 years ago?

Without daily shipments of several hundred car loads of lumber to pay the bills and without the ability to push slide material into the river, it was impossible, even with millions in FEMA reimbursements, to keep the line open in the Eel River Canyon.

The same will be true for the trail.

suspence
Guest
suspence
2 years ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

I do a lot of logging road construction across unstable areas. A train grade has to be low gradient and wide = large cut and fill slopes = increased instability. For a hiking/biking trail it will be easy to route around unstable areas with steep and narrow paths. It’s just not even comparable really False Be Told.

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
2 years ago
Reply to  suspence

The ROW, where it hasn’t washed into the river, is 70’ wide while the active slide areas can be hundreds of feet from the toe of the slide to high up the mountain where it originates. It’s your fantasy that the slides can be bypassed while staying within the ROW. But you could build bridges or viaducts across the slide areas as was done at Frog Woman Rock. It’s just a question of how many tens (or hundreds) of millions are you willing to invest into McGuire’s political future.

Sparky
Guest
Sparky
2 years ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

Some people will spend endless money to prove anything is possible. Keeping up with endless excuses just seems tiring for others. You should take a back seat instead of the liberal vomit.

Dancreus Giabetes
Guest
Dancreus Giabetes
2 years ago
Reply to  Sparky

Donald Trump needs your donations!
NOW!

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
2 years ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

Heck, the Avenue of the Giants has been inoperative at Fish Creek for more than a year…!!!

I wouldn’t hold out much hope for the GRT being dependably functional through the Eel River Canyon…

That is, if it is ever completed at all…

D'Tucker Jebs
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  The Real Guest

It’s a trail, not a two-lane paved road.
Apples and oranges.

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
2 years ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

Ok, Jebs, I’ll hit the ball back into your court…

“It’s a “trail”, not a two-lane paved road.”

So, tell me, D’ Tucker, since it’s going to be so much easier to build and maintain, just exactly how much of it has been completed through the Eel River Canyon in the very same, last year…???

HINT:

Not one fucking millimeter.

You say, “It’s a trail…”, but, even that is incorrect, it ain’t even a trail yet through the Eel River Canyon…

It’s just a paper trail, so far.

If you want to see where it leads, follow the money.

Zero real progress, Jebs…

Zero.

Does it feel like you’re getting your money’s worth, yet…???

Dancreus Giabetes
Guest
Dancreus Giabetes
2 years ago
Reply to  The Real Guest

Nobody started yet. The trail concept is busy getting community inputed by five outragers.

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
2 years ago

If it’s going to be so simple, why hasn’t it even begun…???

Because it ain’t happening.

I am a robot
Guest
I am a robot
2 years ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

The few trails in the easily accessible Huboldt Redwooda state park cannot be maintained. Bathrooms have been closed. To think that hundreds of miles of trail through the Eel river canyon will be maintained is indeed, magical thinking

Korina42
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  I am a robot

Humboldt Redwoods State Park is operated by the severely underfunded National Park Service. The GRT will be operated by the Great Redwood Trail Agency. Different piles of money.

CsMisadventures
Guest
CsMisadventures
2 years ago
Reply to  Korina42

Built by the GRT, not necessarily operated by it, or after the funding dries up. Once it’s built, their responsibility ends, and people doing any operating like to get paid for their efforts. Also, there’s no funding for business development that the trail folks seem to think will pop up like dandelions. https://mendofever.com/2023/08/08/the-great-redwood-trail-roadshow-continues-in-hopland/
With the state budget currently in crisis mode, how long do you think it will take to see the ~500m cost to build will come about?

Korina42
Member
2 years ago

What makes you think the GRTA won’t run it? It’s why they exist. The agency is working on funding, including generating their own; they’re very new and still have a lot to work out.
By the time money becomes an issue, the governor may be mismanaging a different budget surplus.

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
2 years ago
Reply to  Korina42

Correct.

The money for GRT will come straight out of the pockets of the taxpayers of State of California.

How many BILLIONS is the current State of California budget deficit?

Farce
Guest
Farce
2 years ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

The Great Trail to Nowhere. Didn’t we have something else like this recently? Oh yeah- the TRAIN to Nowhere is now 100 BILLION over budget…hmmm. Taxes come out of our actual pockets, people! It’s not magical free money….

Dancreus Giabetes
Guest
Dancreus Giabetes
2 years ago
Reply to  Farce

Well… stock dividends from inherited wealth…kinda like magical free money.

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
2 years ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

As an example, sanitation hasn’t even properly been considered for US 101 through Humboldt, and certainly not by many who travel it…

Restrooms, if they are even functional, are few and far between…

And people are PIGS…

I’m not sure about you, but I’m not partial to pit privies or vault toilets…

Flush toilets are the Gold Standard, and they are basically non-existent for great distances…

There are gross surface turds and scattered asswipe, off every US 101 pullout and behind every tree and bush, thereabouts…

Same is especially true for the Avenue of the Giants…

It’s gagger, and not something that any civilized tourist would return to visit.

How do you propose “sanitation” will be any different along the GRT…???

Last edited 2 years ago
Thatguyinarcata
Guest
Thatguyinarcata
2 years ago
Reply to  The Real Guest

If you don’t like pit toilets or privies you probably shouldn’t avail yourself of remote wilderness trails.

These types of trails exist all over the country and people are generally pretty capable of self selecting the segments that are appropriate for their preferences, if not always their skills

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
2 years ago

My point was, that if disgusting, sickening, unsanitary conditions prevail along US 101 and the Avenue of the Giants, how much more disgusting, sickening, and unsanitary can the conditions along the GRT be expected to be…???

??,

Pit privies and vault toilets are not my preference, but they work in a “pinch”…

?‍♂️?

Does that make me uncivilized…???

The VERY FIRST THING that I developed on my property, was a properly maintained portable toilet, soon to be followed by a properly engineered sanitary septic field and working Flush Toilet dependably fed by gravity flow water, that has been properly functioning for “pushing” four decades, as a courtesy to my family and guests, not to mention myself.

I considered it my duty.

And I live about as far as one can get from the Main Stem Eel River and still be in it’s watershed…

The wisest, most sanitary investment that I have ever made…

Forgive me if I believe that is how the Great Redwood Trail should play it, also…

Health and Safety should be first and foremost, in it’s discussion, AFAIAC…

The County Health Department expects it for all private property development, so it should also be expected of the GRT Development.

Why wouldn’t it be…???

I believe that you may be overestimating the ability and consideration of people in general…

You seem somewhat considerate to much better than average ability, maybe…

I appreciate that…

That’s all well and good, but don’t judge everyone by yourself…

In my experience, there are a lot of people with the manners of pigs, or worse, out there, that will simply and happily pile their shits on the shits of those that have preceded them, and walk away…

Providing such people with a relatively uninclined path through an otherwise un-fouled wilderness area, without sanitary facilities designed for a child or a simpleton, above and along a watercourse, is unwise at best, and is more appropriately, is a fools errand.

Funding such a filthy boondoggle with tax dollars is the epitome of malfeasance, IMO.

Last edited 2 years ago
Thatguyinarcata
Guest
Thatguyinarcata
2 years ago
Reply to  The Real Guest

There are completely sanitary pit and vault toilets all over the country in remote national, state, and county parks and campgrounds.

You’re free to prefer whatever type of toilet you like, but your preference is just that…a preference.

Flush toilets are not appropriate for remote wilderness areas and people who find other kinds of toilets (or no toilets) objectionable would be wise to avoid these remote wilderness areas

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
2 years ago

Are you suggesting that pit privies and or vault toilets will be properly approved, provided, and maintained, along the GRT…???

With what distance and frequency.. ???

That’s news to me…

Do you also suggest that they will be properly adhered to…???

I wouldn’t bet on that…

Last edited 2 years ago
Thatguyinarcata
Guest
Thatguyinarcata
2 years ago
Reply to  The Real Guest

I dont believe that there is a finalized plan that would come anywhere close to including that level of detail.

Are you aware of a finalized plan for any stretch of this planned trail?

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
2 years ago

No.

But I am also making no assumptions as to how it will be “facilitated”…

You can bet that a bunch of dipshits will be washing their hair with shampoo, and their asses with soap, and bathing right in the river…

What could go wrong…???

This trail is never going to be worth the kind of damage it will to this wild and scenic river’s World Class anadromous fishery potential.

The fishery is on the brink of collapse, this could be the final straw.

Korina42
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  The Real Guest

No, it sounds like you’re making a lot of unfounded assumptions. Read the draft plan, then complain.

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
2 years ago
Reply to  Korina42

I’ve seen plenty of clueless people washing their hair with shampoo and conditioner in Nooning Creek, that “had” juvenile salmon and steelhead present at the time…

It’s not an unfounded assumption that these trail users, slathered with sunscreen and lotions, will be splashing and frolicking, in the adjacent waters of the Eel River, with it’s sensitive and already significantly compromised salmon and steelhead fishery, hence further polluting it, to the detriment of said fishery…

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/09/200902091112.htm

Also, in the river, bathing with soaps, and washing their hair, with shampoos, they will most certainly, be…

That they will not, an inappropriate assumption, it would be…

Last edited 2 years ago
The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
2 years ago
Reply to  The Real Guest

https://sectionhiker.com/biodegradable-soap-in-the-backcountry-the-campsuds-myth/

‘Biodegradable Soap in the Backcountry: The Campsuds Myth’

“A lot of people I meet on backpacking and camping trips think that it’s ok to pour soapy water into streams and rivers if they use biodegradable Campsuds, Sea-to-Summit Wilderness Wash, or Dr. Bronner’s Castille Soap to wash their hands, shampoo their hair, or clean their camp cookware. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

Generally speaking, getting any soap in a water source is not acceptable or recommended by Leave No Trace guidelines. The soap can cause all sorts of issues from increased nitrogen to actually causing significant harm to aquatic inhabitants. The impacts are further amplified in high use areas.

It’s important to understand that there are still significant impacts from “BIODEGRADEABLE” products and soap manufacturers say as much when you read the fine print on the label:”…

Last edited 2 years ago
Ed Voice
Guest
Ed Voice
2 years ago
Reply to  The Real Guest

So I take it you’re OK with hundreds, if not thousands of people a day, during Northern Nights or Reggae on the River using the South Fork Eel for bathing and slathered with sunscreen lotion from head to toe?

northern_nights_Music_festival_2015_Christine_Ciarcia_river_2
Dancreus Giabetes
Guest
Dancreus Giabetes
2 years ago
Reply to  The Real Guest

But you forgot all the private properties that surround the rail and river. They’re your source of shampoos and MaxSea

Dancreus Giabetes
Guest
Dancreus Giabetes
2 years ago

…or cow poop.

Lou
Guest
Lou
2 years ago
Reply to  The Real Guest

Well said

Dancreus Giabetes
Guest
Dancreus Giabetes
2 years ago
Reply to  The Real Guest

There’s not gonna be too many Diaper Altimas on the trail.

CsMisadventures
Guest
CsMisadventures
2 years ago

I can handle those. Or just bury it where appropriate because you’ll not find a pit toilet every mile, if at all. They’re also targets for vandalism and when you have to go, you have to go, and a pit toilet all busted up, burned out or the seat hung in a tree, because people are pigs, you’re going to relieve yourself somewhere.

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
2 years ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

It’s farcical.

Korina42
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Jeffersonian

Wow, what an amazing insight! I’m sure they never even thought of this; you should call the GRTA immediately! /s
Seriously though, they’ve developed a 580 page document to answer these questions.

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
2 years ago
Reply to  Korina42

580 pages…!!!

REALLY…???

OMG…!!!

That’s it…???

I wonder what that cost us…???

What happened to the rest of the “ream”…???

How much actual progress has there been in the Eel River Canyon, in your estimation, where the actual rubber is supposed to be hitting the actual road, at all, or even just since last we spoke back 15 months ago, in March 2023..???

Let me guess…

Not one damn fraction of an inch…???

That’s what I thought…

“Who do you work for…???”

– George Clooney –

Last edited 2 years ago
Dancreus Giabetes
Guest
Dancreus Giabetes
2 years ago
Reply to  Jeffersonian

What was the price tag of the F-35 down in Albuquerque?

Martin
Guest
Martin
2 years ago

“Leave The Wild.” Here we go again with our Native Americans saying they don’t want the trail through Native lands. In some ways I agree with them and in others I don’t. We are all one people and should stand together to come to an agreeable solution. Fighting one another serves no point and just raises anger and hate. There are many areas where it is impossible to build a trail. Banks gone, tracks broken and hanging over the edges, bridges that are no longer safe and it goes on. If you have any better ideas, by all means bring them forth for discussion.

Bozo
Guest
Bozo
2 years ago
Reply to  Martin

>”Fighting one another serves no point and just raises anger and hate.”

Paul Simon said it all… ‘A loose affiliation of millionaires (and now billionaires)…’

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
2 years ago
Reply to  Bozo

“Everyone’s got the runs for glory. No one stops and scrutinizes the plan.”–Paul Simon

Martin
Guest
Martin
2 years ago
Reply to  Bozo

I said that in my comment. Please read again.

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
2 years ago
Reply to  Martin

The better idea is to build the trail where it’s feasible but leave the Eel River Canyon alone.

Remove the rails and toxic laden ties from areas that are accessible, do some remedial grading, remove culverts, and otherwise let the right of way revert to nature – which it’s doing anyway.

Martin
Guest
Martin
2 years ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

Sounds fine, but what about the trail that will go through private property. I own some along that route and don’t want people trashing the place with human waste, toilet paper, shooting, hunting and trespassing on my property!

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
2 years ago
Reply to  Martin

Those are a few of the issues that arise with any trail project. But if that’s what’s driving you then just say you’re against the trail – don’t pretend you can see it both ways.

What you and the trail proponents seem to be missing is there are unique challenges to putting a trail through the Eel River Canyon far beyond the minor concerns you’ve cited or the issues raised by the tribes.

Martin
Guest
Martin
2 years ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

You are darn right I don’t want the trail. If it ran through your land, I bet you would not want it either!

Thatguyinarcata
Guest
Thatguyinarcata
2 years ago
Reply to  Martin

I don’t know a lot of details about West Coast trails, but I’m pretty familiar with similar trails in the great lakes region and they’ve generally increased the property value of adjacent private property.

So whole your feelings are yours alone, consensus as reflected by the market seems to be supportive of these pedestrian trails for private property owners

Martin
Guest
Martin
2 years ago

It may increase the property value if it runs near or part way through, but my land is a 600-acre ranch in the mountains and there are no homes on it except mine. The trail going through as I have mentioned before will not increase value. Some folks will be leaving human waste, paper trash, cans, bottles, shooting and hunting, which I am completely against. The whole idea is crazy and will cost millions, if not more, of taxpayers money to even start to complete.

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
2 years ago
Reply to  Martin

Not to mention careless with fire….

Thatguyinarcata
Guest
Thatguyinarcata
2 years ago
Reply to  Martin

Again, you’re welcome to your opinion and I won’t presume I can change it. But your opinion isn’t fact and the wider market seems to value these walking trails as an asset to the private properties they cross.

If you’re worried about the public cost I would encourage you to examine the history of your property and look at how much public benefit that property has received from the time it was taken by force of arms and gifted to whoever homesteaded or originally all the way through the various agricultural tax exemptions it remains eligible for.

We all live in and have inherited a society that spends public resources on various things deemed public goods. It’s kind of a dickish move to bemoan the public benefits you don’t like while enjoying the public benefits you do

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
2 years ago
Reply to  Martin

You’d lose the bet – it does run through my land – and I support the trail where it makes sense – which means just about everywhere but the Eel River Canyon.

Dancreus Giabetes
Guest
Dancreus Giabetes
2 years ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

Martin gets the Dude Ranch chateaux!

suspence
Guest
suspence
2 years ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

You think the CPT, Lost Coast, Appalachian trails were easy to build? Why would you think trail proponents aren’t aware of the challenges facing this rather small project? It’s really not very complicated and engineering a trail through unstable ground is WAY easier than engineering a train grade. It could be done easily if the will is there and the NIMBYs don’t f#%k this up too.

Michael M
Guest
Michael M
2 years ago

The Eel canyon trail is fantasy. Way too expensive. Right of way eroded away. Never going to happen. A great kayak destination though.
In No Men and So Hum the trail needs to be near 101 linking the towns, parks and existing trails such as the Pacific coast trail.

another guest
Guest
another guest
2 years ago

all humans originated from a few dozen common ancestors ~ aka midocondrial dna

also know as science for all the trumpers on the right and dipshits on the left

so really every human in north america is 100% did not evole there, just migrated there over time looking for opportunity just like every other human ever

every human is from south africa ultimatley

i like science because its real wether you believe in it or not

more fake news i guess

I am a robot
Guest
I am a robot
2 years ago
Reply to  another guest

You are far behind the times on the discussion of the origins of what we now call homo sapiens. There are multiple points of origin. Look it up.

Dancreus Giabetes
Guest
Dancreus Giabetes
2 years ago
Reply to  I am a robot

Not independently. It depends at what date you you point to: before divergence from apes, before or after divergence or reunion with neanderthals…or which one of the many possible waves of migration to this hemisphere.

Thatguyinarcata
Guest
Thatguyinarcata
2 years ago

It seems like the state is bungling this by trying to grandstand about this massive project before taking the time to address the actual physical and social complexity of a project like this.

Maybe just focus on developing and expanding trail networks around the population centers. Shouldn’t be any real opposition for developing the trail from the golden gate bridge up to around Hopland or Cloverdale.

With that built out there could be some experience to point to and learn from before approaching the more challenging stretches. Plus there’s time to actually engage with the various tribes, if the state is even remotely serious about that.

Korina42
Member
2 years ago

This is not the first long distance trail ever built; these issues have been encountered and dealt with before. The Eel River Canyon’s geology is unique, and I’m sure the GRTA will figure it out. Humans are pretty clever, on the whole.
The plan is to build the easy stuff first, and save the Eel River migraine for last. The trail will be connecting our communities long before that. As McGuire has said, repeatedly, we’re doing this right, not fast.

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
2 years ago
Reply to  Korina42

When has Government done anything right, at any speed…?

Dancreus Giabetes
Guest
Dancreus Giabetes
2 years ago
Reply to  The Real Guest

Fighting fascism. And the Federal Highway system.

Thatguyinarcata
Guest
Thatguyinarcata
2 years ago
Reply to  Korina42

Well I hope that is the path they take. The bungling that I see is coming from the major consistency in their releases that herald the whole thing. I get that it’s meant to get people excited but it also presents the notion that they’re working on sections that they haven’t even begun to address, which then leads to responses like you can read on this comment section.

I hope they compete this trail. It would be a very cool thing to have in our community. I’m worried that the way they’re going about promoting it is working against that though.

suspence
Guest
suspence
2 years ago

what is massive about this? the grade is probably 70-90 % intact. very little earthwork required and cleaning up old industrial debris while at it. seems like a no brainer to me.

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
2 years ago
Reply to  suspence

I’d say that 70 – 90% of it is so overgrown with trees and brush from lack of maintenance over the last two decades plus, that currently even walking over those sections on foot would not even be an option.

Disconnected by slip-outs, and tunnel collapses, many sections will be totally inaccessible even by trails until proper repairs can be completed.

Saying this project will be extremely costly and intensely labor intensive would be a vast understatement …

J,B
Guest
J,B
2 years ago
Reply to  The Real Guest

Are any of your comments ever looking to help any situation or find solutions? They always just seem to proclaim you all knowing of why someone is wrong or why, whatever it is will be a failure. You obviously have a lot of spare time and a brain for details. I do wish you would use it looking for a way to make things better. And your occasional clever joke. Im trying myself to not be overwhelmed by the negative. I dare you

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
2 years ago
Reply to  J,B

??,

GRT is TRG spelled backwards…

?‍♂️??????…

Try saying something funny, I dare you…

Of course I also look for solutions and try and help situations…

You would be surprised…

I am also a realist.

My best advice, for the most good, would be to put the amount of energy and funding into something less delusional, more worthwhile, and more realistic…

Sometimes it’s best to quit while your still ahead.

J,B
Guest
J,B
2 years ago
Reply to  The Real Guest

Ive got a whole stand up set. 20 mins
hiking the trail backword is…funny

Farce
Guest
Farce
2 years ago
Reply to  The Real Guest

Is there a joke about LRG in here?

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
2 years ago
Reply to  J,B

Speaking of bring overwhelmed by the negative, consider this before you advocate throwing more money down a rat hole…

………….

“After A $100 Billion Surplus, California Now Faces A $73 Billion Budget Deficit
Last month, California’s Legislative Analyst’s Office, or LAO, which is the nonpartisan state department that advises California’s policymakers on the state’s fiscal issues, increased their estimate for the state’s 2024–25 budget deficit to $73 billion.”

………….

The Gaza pier was another democrat brainstorm boondoggle.

Half a billion dollars later, it’s kaput, and did very little, if any, actual good…

It’s time for some fiscal responsibility, before we pass the point of no return any farther.

J,B
Guest
J,B
2 years ago
Reply to  The Real Guest

I never underestimated your ability to point out problems, assigning my comments to throwing money down a rat hole are.. misrodentappropriate. I guess taking politics out of this is not an option, but I do think it unnecessarily clouds addressing the issues in something like this to no ones benefit. I respect your opinion

J,B
Guest
J,B
2 years ago
Reply to  The Real Guest

Also, if we are talking state tax dollars, I advocate for almost anything we can get to our neck of the woods that have provided so much in property taxes to the state, and the county for that matter, for the unfair shake we have ALWAYS received

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
2 years ago
Reply to  J,B

How is giving us nothing but an imaginary opportunity to EVENTUALLY, “take a hike”, through the Eel River Canyon, what you would consider different in any way from “the unfair shake we have ALWAYS received”…???

Not much difference between them owing it to us, and them cheating us out of it…

We have received nothing more “along those lines”, than what is equivalent to an empty promise.

Dancreus Giabetes
Guest
Dancreus Giabetes
2 years ago
Reply to  The Real Guest

Rake the forest

Dancreus Giabetes
Guest
Dancreus Giabetes
2 years ago

Those urban segments may attract more of the bum camp style the detractors detest. Also people walk urban trails for an hour or two if they live nearby. Nobody is coming from across country to walk from Marin to Hopland. I go to Mt Lassen, not Red bluff.

CsMisadventures
Guest
CsMisadventures
2 years ago

“I believe that I speak for the Great Redwood Trail team when I say that we want to listen, respect, and find a way forward together with everyone’s ideas, values, and input.”

Then you do what they asked: stay off the land. Move your trail elsewhere. You won’t let any of the little rail groups do anything with it, why do you think you get to steamroll the tribes? That is a blow to the chest, as they said in the article. You have one job: go around. Use some of those new fire roads that were carved all over the hills. Anything else will just be more decisiveness. Forever. It is not a “complex implication”.

Korina42
Member
2 years ago

That’s not how railbanking works.
A three-foot dirt trail is a blow to the chest? A cleaned up canyon and river are divisive?

suspence
Guest
suspence
2 years ago

The tribal ppl aren’t running the show, we don’t have to do whatever they ask. If the tribes want more casinos should we let them?
It’s just a fricking trail and a little enviro clean up too. This is a low impact project.

Moshe Doshan
Guest
Moshe Doshan
2 years ago

So Merrifield is suggesting that it’s better to leave the land undisturbed in the hands of the ranchers? The ancestors of the ranchers are literally the people who committed the genocide. THEY killed her ancestors, not me or any of the people who are going to use the trail.

There’s so many problems in the world that need attention. Stopping a trail and hating on bicyclists and hikers seems like a waste of energy.

The trail will be great way for the tribes to get back to their ancestral territory.

Phineas Homestone
Guest
Phineas Homestone
2 years ago

To the folks concerned the section from Dos Rios through the ‘Grand Canyon of the Eel’ to where it rejoins 101 will become a bum/homeless nightmare: compare it to other through hiking trails for similar destruction. Remember this stretch is remote, with whatever exits developed also remote from 101; not very bum friendly. Lost Coast trail hasn’t become a mess, Pacific Crest trail; no. Continental Divide; no and on it goes. In general anyplace requiring planning and effort to cross attracts folks of means. Bums/homeless have not been attracted to these other trails, instead staying nearby services.

Diablo Blanco
Guest
Diablo Blanco
2 years ago

Take the trail to the train station!

Rick
Guest
Rick
2 years ago

Piss on these people and all of their boondoggles. Take care of some people first. Overdoses, human trafficking, murder, homelessness, desperation and suicide are the new normal in our society. Until they turn this around they need their purse strings pulled shut. Taxpayers need to make that happen. They have their noses too high in the air to see the common persons problems i guess. It is time we point their noses back down to our level.

Korina42
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Rick

So giving people the opportunity to experience wilderness or travel to nearby towns safely on foot or bicycle is bad? Getting outside and moving your body is an actual cure for depression, obesity, loneliness, so many things. If you don’t believe me, try it for yourself. What do you have to lose?

Dancreus Giabetes
Guest
Dancreus Giabetes
2 years ago
Reply to  Korina42

Might make the frogs gay?

Thanks for proving our point!
Member
Thanks for proving our point!
2 years ago

Serenity,
Well written article ?????
Ignore the trolls, bots, and delicate white flowers

curlybill
Guest
curlybill
2 years ago

Serenity Wood,
You spent a lot of time on this article, I’ll give you that.

Al L Ivesmatr
Guest
Al L Ivesmatr
2 years ago

Beahahahaha. Boom! Offshore windmills nope. Now the great hippie trail to nowhere, poof! Much respect and muchas gracias to the local tribes for fighting back against all of these Ring Grabbers foul, environment harming, malinformed schemes. Funny thing is, the proponents all painted themselves in a corner and now look like racist scum if they whine, moan, and complain. Oh well, like they say, ya lie down with dogs, ya get……

J,B
Guest
J,B
2 years ago

In a way, even getting all those toxic rail ties out of there seems a great trade. The pct trail culture is a benefit to many areas it goes through, economic and id argue respectful land use.

J,B
Guest
J,B
2 years ago
Reply to  J,B

I would add, I had a friend do the pct some years ago. I went to meet him and did some trail magic, bbq bacon wrapped albacore loins ,cooler of icy drinks, then shuttled him and several friends to Shasta city, took up several hotel rooms, went out to eat. Ive never seen people eat 2 double cheeseburgers as an appetizer before or since. then off to the grocery store for half gallons of ice cream each and a full restock. I met some truly great people. A.P could see a really viable option supplying and acccommodating hikers. Also the argument that train tracks aren’t viable to maintain so a walking path is also somehow the same is disingenuous at best, but really just a stupid thing to say.

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
2 years ago
Reply to  J,B

Welcome to the “I don’t have any knowledge of conditions in the Canyon” but I’ll comment anyway, club.

The primary issue with maintaining the train tracks wasn’t the tracks or the ties, but the multiple active landslides the tracks were built over.

As a result, when the mountain started to move, as it does every winter, either the land slid out from under the tracks or the tracks were buried by land coming down from above, or both.

You can do anything with enough money and engineering, but it wasn’t economically feasible to keep the line open when there was a substantial revenue stream.

Now there’s no income stream, so it’s all taxpayer money – and there may be limits to how much the public wants to spend for McGuire’s boondoggle and a few trail users.

J,B
Guest
J,B
2 years ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

Really, I have no knowledge of conditions in the canyon? Save your “expertise” explaining it!

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
2 years ago
Reply to  J,B

Regardless of your level of knowledge of conditions in the canyon, your lack of understanding of the practical implications of those conditions is apparent.

J,B
Guest
J,B
2 years ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

How is that
? What practical implications of the conditions are you referring to? Im interested in being educated by your profound inside knowledge. Im but a simple hill folk. enlighten me

J,B
Guest
J,B
2 years ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

Sure is blowing hard out there today!

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
2 years ago
Reply to  J,B

Yes, you certainly are!

J,B
Guest
J,B
2 years ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

Says you with the, how many know it all ish responses. lol

J,B
Guest
J,B
2 years ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

Also, my point was getting the creosote ties out of there is a good thing. Not that the land does not in fact move. And that maintaining a walking path over slides, and slip outs is a much more feasible thing, obviously, than safely getting trains through. Saying the 2 things are any near the same is like I said, a dumb thing to say. Making your ass ertion that I am un informed, while asserting your superior knowledge not even addressing what I actually said has been my chuckle of the afternoon. Its obvious from your comments your politics are part of the goggles you view this with along with your property rights that should be respected as much as your neighbors.

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
2 years ago
Reply to  J,B

Getting the railroad ties out of there will only be a good thing if they are properly disposed of as the hazardous waste that they are…

If the railroad ties are just resold and redistributed hither and yon, to new areas to pollute, that is not such a great idea…

But, by all means, I fully agree that the toxic railroad ties should be properly dealt with, removed, and disposed of, ASAP, regardless of whether or not the GRT ever comes to fruition…

First things first…

Last edited 2 years ago
Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
2 years ago
Reply to  J,B

No disagreement on removing the ties were feasible.

Contrary to your assertion I didn’t respond to that issue, had you been paying attention, you’d know my position as stated previously:

“Remove the rails and toxic laden ties from areas that are accessible, do some remedial grading, remove culverts, and otherwise let the right of way revert to nature – which it’s doing anyway.”

Glad you got a chuckle at your lack of understanding of the challenges in building and maintaining a trail where the trail bed is the toe of numerous active landslides that extend hundreds of feet up a mountain – to name just one of the challenges.

Your ignorance is confirmed from your ass umption that you know anything about my politics or your ass ertion that somehow colors my viewpoint.

Given that ignorance is its own reward you may safely assume I disagree with nearly any comment you’re likely to make.

And except perhaps for one final riposte this concludes my participation in this conversation.

J,B
Guest
J,B
2 years ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

Your comments are very snarky, I guess I hadn’t read all your comments to others on the subject. I hope I get to work on and hike the trail and take a great big poo poo on your land! I look forward to your profound wisdom and insight on all things eel river. All hail the truth!

Kym Kemp
Admin
2 years ago
Reply to  J,B

Okay. That’s it. I’ve been gone, had a hard day, and came back to this. The only reason I’m not going back and deleting these overly insulting responses is I have too much to do to sort this out.

Stop talking to each other for a bit. And if either of you insult anyone else in the next few days expect to be put on moderation.

J,B
Guest
J,B
2 years ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

No worries, I thought I was banned anyway defending myself from being cursed at and called vulgar names a while back. I put myself on time out. These threads are toxic, I’m happy to not contribute.

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
2 years ago
Reply to  J,B

What is stupid is simultaneously failing to build a proposed Bullet Train while also failing to build the proposed Great Redwood Trail…

So far, they are both total farcical failures with astronomical price tags…

When and where will they finally be properly linked for MAXIMUM Government “intelligence” and “efficiency”…???

It doesn’t get any more contradictory than that.

D'Tucker Jebs
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  The Real Guest

Eminent Domain.
Both projects would be completed.

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
2 years ago
Reply to  D'Tucker Jebs

I have no idea what you mean…

Both non-sequiturs, as far as I can tell…

J,B
Guest
J,B
2 years ago
Reply to  The Real Guest

Building a walking path and a train line are very different things , agree?

Hjg
Guest
Hjg
2 years ago

Finders keepers, losers weepers. In this case the natives lost

Kym Kemp
Admin
2 years ago
Reply to  Hjg

I do hope you extend that same rule to the car thief who steals your vehicle.

Thatguyinarcata
Guest
Thatguyinarcata
2 years ago
Reply to  Hjg

In addition to Kym’s example, I wonder if you’ll have the same attitude towards land that it’s restored to native control?

I am a robot
Guest
I am a robot
2 years ago

20 years or so ago, a trail that parallels the Avenue of the Giants was proposed. Easy access, all parkland, no mountainous country to conquer, no opposition by ANYONE, inmate labor and/or CCC labor readily available to build it….where is it?

CsMisadventures
Guest
CsMisadventures
2 years ago
Reply to  I am a robot

Heh. I think that would be the Eel River itself. It makes its own access.

Korina42
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  I am a robot

I gather there’s not enough support for it; and, as usual, no one wants to fork out the money. Frankly, I think it’s a brilliant idea.

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
2 years ago
Reply to  Korina42

Have you properly considered that virtually EVERY INCH of the GRT is currently a creosote soaked, TOXIC MESS…???

What parameters will represent unsafe levels of exposure to these toxins, for the workers and hikers, etc…
Show me where this has been properly considered and how it will be properly addressed…

Railroad ties are hazardous waste.

…………..

“Exposure to creosote, a toxic chemical used to treat railroad ties, can cause a number of health issues:
Skin: Direct contact with creosote or exposure to creosote vapors can cause skin damage such as blistering, peeling, or reddening. Long-term exposure can also lead to skin cancer and cancer of the scrotum.
Eyes: Exposure to creosote can damage the eyes.
Nervous system: Brief exposure to large amounts of creosote can harm the nervous system.
Kidneys and liver: Long-term exposure to creosote by breathing or swallowing it can affect the kidneys and liver.
Cancer: Creosote contains known carcinogens, including benzene and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs). The EPA has determined that coal tar creosote is a probable human carcinogen, and the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) has also found it to be carcinogenic. Benzene can cause leukemia, while PAHs are linked to lung, skin, and bladder cancers. ”

………….

How will it be properly disposed of…???

It must be dealt with responsibly, safely, and permanently.

Let’s hope that it will not simply be resold, and therefore redistributed, haphazardly, throughout the community, to hapless people, to “landscape” and to further pollute an even greater area…

It happens…

I see that toxic garbage redistributed to lots of places it doesn’t belong.

People actually are naive enough to make raised garden beds out of that carcinogenic shit…

And yes, they have also ended up getting cancer, unfortunately…

Friends and community members that I care about…

Last edited 2 years ago
Korina42
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  The Real Guest

Or you can find out for yourself. https://greatredwoodtrailplan.org/

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
2 years ago
Reply to  Korina42

Korina said:

“there’s not enough support for it; and, as usual, no one wants to fork out the money”

And the same will be true for the GRT once the public wakes up to what’s happening.

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
2 years ago
Reply to  Korina42

“Frankly, I think it’s a brilliant idea.”

-Korina42-

………………..

You MUST be joking, right…???

……………….

“Wooden railroad ties are treated with a preservative, usually creosote. Due to their high toxicity, railroad ties are considered hazardous waste”…

………………

Sure, “brilliant”, let’s just have a bunch of untrained community member volunteers deal with this poisonous, carcinogenic materials and all the ground it has permeated and polluted.

Then let’s invite the whole world to come spend some quality time with their young children marinating in its surrounding atmosphere…

What possibly could go wrong, besides a few pesky cases of cancer and birth defects…???

No worries, mate, right…???

Damn the torpedoes, and full steam ahead…!!!

Last edited 2 years ago
Korina42
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  The Real Guest

I was responding to the idea of a trail paralleling the Avenue of the Giants. Don’t mis-attribute my comments.

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
2 years ago
Reply to  Korina42

Pardon me…

Now it sounds like you are saying that you actually don’t also think that the GRT is a very brilliant idea…

What gives…???

Is that what you are trying to say…???

And yet you were among it’s primary champions just mere moments ago…

Do you think that the GRT is a brilliant idea or not…???

If so, my comment stands.

If not, what possibly could have so quickly changed your mind…???

?‍♂️

Steve
Guest
Steve
2 years ago

The natives should have more respect for the way united states played out it could be much worse for them. This land was up for grabs. If other powers at the time would have got . The natives probably would have been exterminated, who would have ever none they were even here. Today

Kym Kemp
Admin
2 years ago
Reply to  Steve

Definitely, Charles Manson’s victims should be so grateful that they were killed by his acolytes rather than Hitler, after all so many more of their friends and family could have died if it would have been Hitler.

Slippery Slope Ahead
Guest
Slippery Slope Ahead
2 years ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

How far back in history should we go in order to make amends/reparations for the in humane treatment of the losers of many wars since long past?

Kym Kemp
Admin
2 years ago

I don’t know, but I’m pretty sure that cavalierly dismissing the genocide of the Native American people and the theft of their land like Steve did is never okay.

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
2 years ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

Slippery Slope seems to be on one. It’s not like the genocidal attacks on Native Americans is ancient history. The murder of Sitting Bull and the Wounded Knee massacre took place in 1890 with sporadic skirmishes occurring until at least 1916.

Which means for some older people living today, their grandparents and in some cases parents were alive when these events were occurring.

And it’s not ancient history for Native Americans who continued to face systemic discrimination right up until recent years when their status as sovereign nations and rights as human beings began to be more widely accepted and respected.

Thatguyinarcata
Guest
Thatguyinarcata
2 years ago
Reply to  Steve

Are you from the US? Did you go through US public schools?

A lot of the massacre of the natives was conducted by European powers like England, France, and Spain. The USA federal government also joined in the party once they constituted control of the land in their mind.

But given the record of broken treaties and overt massacres it’s pretty weird to suggest that some other colonial power would have been better

Yabut
Guest
Yabut
2 years ago

(Long but history is nowhere near as simple as your synopsis. )If you went to public school a few decades ago, you would have learned that it was a process to get to the point of genocide. It was not one sided. But lately that has almost been eliminated from public knowledge. There was great ugliness on both sides in the invasion (immigration) of North America by Europe.
A less silly version of the process that either the First Thanksgiving or the Current Genocidal Europeans attacking a North America Garden of Eden ideology is- “But the Indians had the view they wanted to use them [the Europeans]. They wanted the English there on the fringe so they would have the benefit of their treasure, their goods, even their advanced weapons. They wanted that, but under their control.” It didn’t exactly work out that way.
Bailyn does not let either of the two adversary cultures off the hook. He recounts little vignettes of the original inhabitants’ behavior such as this: Following the ambush of four Dutch traders, Bailyn quotes a report, one “had been eaten after having [been] well roasted. The [other two] they burnt. The Indians carried a leg and an arm home to be divided amongst their families.”
And, on the other side, consider that fixture of grade school Thanksgiving pageants, Miles Standish, an upstanding, godly Pilgrim stalwart who does not at all seem the sort of man who would have cut off the head of a chief and “brought it back to Plymouth in triumph [where] it was displayed on the blockhouse together with a flag made of a cloth soaked in the victim’s blood.””
It’s likely that the adventuring Europeans won the day in the end was because they had been honed by the violence done to them to be more adamantly persistent. They were the decendents of survivors of the constant ebb and flow of invasion and brutality into and out of Europe from Africa and Asia for millennia.  But the local pre Columbian natives didn’t understand that-“believing that the English would behave as Native Americans would when defeated: pack up and leave, or learn their lesson and respect the power of the Powhatan. Following the event, Opechancanough told the Patawomeck, who were not part of the Confederacy and had remained neutral, that he expected “before the end of two Moones there should not be an Englishman in all their Countries.” He misunderstood the intentions of the colonists and their backers overseas.” The English were indeed the survivors of dozens of major invasions. They had hanging on down to a fine art.
When the first settler massacre occurred, the local Native American killed killed all English settlers they found, including men, women, and children of all ages. Opechancanough, chief of the Powhatan Confederacy, led a coordinated series of surprise attacks that ended up killing a total of 347 people — a quarter of the population of the Colony of Virginia. And repeated it in when “The next major confrontation with the Powhatan, the Third Anglo-Powhatan War, occurred in 1644, resulting in the deaths of about 500 colonists.”

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-shocking-savagery-of-americas-early-history-22739301/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_massacre_of_1622

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
2 years ago
Reply to  Yabut

There you go again!!

It’s delusional to excuse the genocide of Native Americans by asserting some sort of equivalency between the cultures in conflict.

But not surprising since you think there’s equivalency between Palestinian resistance/terrorism and Israel’s apartheid oppression of Palestinians in general and the genocidal destruction of Gaza in particular.

You certainly seem invested in pretending the culpability of the warring parties is equivalent.

J,B
Guest
J,B
2 years ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

Your comments and insight on, everything, are truly amazing, to be so amazingly confident in your knowledge of, well everything, is a thing to behold. Your family must be so amazed and proud. It is .. well , I cant find the words. Keep it up though, for entertainment purpose at least.

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
2 years ago
Reply to  J,B

J,B said:

“Your comments and insight on, everything, are truly amazing, to be so amazingly confident in your knowledge of, well everything, is a thing to behold. Your family must be so amazed and proud.”

Now you’re getting it!!

To conclude my participation in any conversation with you I offer the following apt quote:

“My writings oft displease you: what’s the matter?
You love not to hear truth,
nor I to flatter.”

Sir John Harrington

Good day and good night!

Yabut
Guest
Yabut
2 years ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

The inability to understand that committing genocide- ie getting rid of other humans as a solution for conflict- is a universal human characteristic, and not a matter of identifying and selectively announcing who is the guilty party, is just what keeps it havillains.

The whole idea that there is some sort of morality in balancing atrocities is delusional. It is not a matter of “equivalency”, which has lately become the silliest of pro Palestinians catch phrases in order to excuse for acting as a proxy for a group that only sees genocide, committing their own atrocities and failing dismally in their own efforts to succeedcat it, as a solution for any grievance. They are not victims. They are just incompetent at being more effective villians.

Until people are willing to do the much harder work of asserting justice at all times for all people, liked or not liked, involving standards, compromise, tolerance, and real solutions with an acknowledgement that all people are capable of villainy at all times, violence will continue unabated because that becomes the only option. Just hissing at the villains in a proxy morality play is worse than counterproductive. It leads to hardening off of any sense of common humanity and more death.

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
2 years ago
Reply to  Yabut

Hmmm….we’ve gotten a bit off topic but it’s revealing that you see genocide as a universal human characteristic, a view which your previous comment (where you assert defeated Native Americans would either “pack up and leave” or respect the power of the victor) contradicts.

Thatguyinarcata
Guest
Thatguyinarcata
2 years ago
Reply to  Yabut

There was not some monolithic genocide in the Americas. There were thousands, possibly several dozen thousand, distinct cultures on these continents when Europeans arrived.

Conservatively, hundreds of them were subjected to undeniable genocide. Typically at the hands of a European power with help from a native culture that had enmity with the group being targeted.

This colonial process took place, acutely, over about 250 years and it’s still in process in many areas of this hemisphere. But there are scant examples of any organized European power showing up and engaging in anything like a good faith exchange with a cultural equal. It was not fated to be a pleasant experience for the myriad peoples of this hemisphere, regardless of the way the European political dynamics played out.

Dancreus Giabetes
Guest
Dancreus Giabetes
2 years ago

In broad terms the Spanish, British, French, and “Americans”took different approaches with Native North Americans; the Spanish getting into the South West by the 1500s. European alliances were affected by Native alliances, and viva versa. Horses and guns preceded settlers in some areas, along with disease. All were traded long distances prior to actual European contact.

Antichrist
Guest
Antichrist
2 years ago

Just because they want to create a trail doesnt mean they can . God these people really are so conceded in their power to think like this ? They act as if their trail will happen no matter what . Some people just insist on forcing their plans and desires upon everyone else regardless of their feelings wants or needs . The people forcing this trail through must think that those that do not want it are just stupid people that should be grateful to them and that once it is done we will all be so happy about it and sorry we did not support their vision . My vision is that the land owners do as they wish with their property and if some greedy folks from the bay build a trail then those people need to pay the land owners for the loss of privacy the higher risk of loss that the near by land owners will suffer by having the public walking around out there . The public never has and never will respect private property when they feel no one is watching

Korina42
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Antichrist

We don’t think you’re stupid, we feel sorry for you; sorry that all you can see is bad things. Your world is dark and scary, and most of us choose not to live there.

Eyeball Kid
Member
2 years ago

When we’re believing, we’re not really thinking, because the belief has walls: “This is what I believe.” So what I believe is like a box, and we’re taking the energy of our thinking and putting into a box of beliefs, pretending that we’re thinking. But we’re really stifling our own energy. We create these mental stresses and frustrations, because we’re blocking our spirit, so to speak. – John Trudell, a Santee Sioux

Karl Verick
Guest
Karl Verick
2 years ago

Anyone that wants to tour the area of the Eel River Canyon can learn how to canoe and take a trip down the river. From Alderpoint to Eel
Rock there’s only class one rapids. Even with the ugliness of the railroad debris, one cannot help but be moved by the natural beauty, the otters, golden eagles, dragonflies. Sacred land, by it’s nature, has a spiritual influence on those touched by it. The river is already ‘public access’. The railroad is only a right of way on the deeds of private land owners. Forfeiting that right of way will close access to everyone except boaters. As the planet titters on the brink, inspiring a love of nature has it’s own intrinsic value beyond ‘tourism’.

Korina42
Member
2 years ago

To clarify, if the trail doesn’t happen, the land reverts to the landowners and the money for cleanup of the Eel River and the entire rail line goes away. The railroad company that left the mess doesn’t exist anymore to clean it up. The state agency that was responsible after the rail company went away also doesn’t exist anymore. Without the trail the state has every excuse to say, “It’s not our problem it’s local; we’re not going to pay for it.” You know they would. If tribal members want access to the land then, they’ll have to deal with hundreds of individual landowners instead of the GRTA.

As McGuire has said from the beginning, they’re doing it right, not fast. The trail is being built in sections, easy stuff first, which is logical. The Eel River Canyon will be the last section built, precisely because it’s the most complex and challenging section and will take the most cleanup. Can they use helicopters to get the rail cars out of the river?

Despite the depictions,through hikers aren’t like Disneyland visitors, sweaty tourists dragging their screaming kids to all the rides and the souvenir shops and dropping trash everywhere. Most follow the ethos of “leave no trace”, though there will be bad actors, because humans.

There’s more, but I’m no expert, and it’s late. I understand the deep, generational anger the tribal people are feeling; I just hope they can see beyond it to the good that can come of this.

CsMisadventures
Guest
CsMisadventures
2 years ago
Reply to  Korina42

And if they still say no? Are you going to find a way to “persuade” them?

Korina42
Member
2 years ago

It’s not my job to change people’s minds; I just try to inform.
If you’re insinuating the use of violence, no. That’s not what us liberal snowflakes do, that’s what ‘Muricans do.

Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
2 years ago
Reply to  Korina42

If McGuire isn’t able to cajole, bribe, bully, threaten or intimidate the Tribes into going along he’ll ignore their concerns and bulldoze his way forward.

Remember, McGuire needs the illusion of the GRT to support his run for statewide office, then governor.

Farce
Guest
Farce
2 years ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

He really thinks he’s governor material?! God help us all!!

Dancreus Giabetes
Guest
Dancreus Giabetes
2 years ago
Reply to  Truth Be Told

Tribes? Or self appointed representatives from a tribe? McGuire doesn’t have to cajole bribe bully beat up threaten OR intimidate, nor even pull a hard wedgie on anybody if the opposition amounts to five or six individuals.

Local Resident
Guest
Local Resident
2 years ago

The Appalachian trail, the Pacific Crest Trail, the Long Trail in Vermont… there are many more. These have all been wildly successful and popular, and allow Americans and people the world over to enjoy long unbroken walks through beautiful wild land. The Great Redwood Trail would be similarly successful and beautiful. Anyone saying it would be littered with bum camps is wrong, as these other trails have demonstrated. Bums need to be close to society for resources, not out in the middle of the woods.

300+ mile of mountain biking, hiking, and camping would be a benefit to society, and would be a new healthy resource for everyone. It is a good use of tax dollars as it is a public good that could be utilized for hundreds of years. People resisting this are curmugeons trying to prevent a great public good from materializing. Of all the crappy things government does, this is not one of them. Don’t get in the way of a good thing.

Georga B
Guest
Georga B
2 years ago

The fast paced concrete jungle dwellers will never be able to understand the spiritual children of Mother Earth. They would have to break out of their jungle before they can hear the cries of pain that needs healed.. until then- we just sound like barking dogs to them.

Farce
Guest
Farce
2 years ago
Reply to  Georga B

They are so walled off from the natural world…They are perverse caricatures of human beings….They destroy and don’t even recognize their destruction….They should watch the Nature Channel on TV and stay in their concrete artificial world of cafes and shops…They have cut themselves off from nature for the sake of convenience and have become subhuman with no sense of cohabitation with the real world…sorry but true of the great majority

Money to Burn
Member
Money to Burn
2 years ago

I’m not sure I understand what these tribes are asking for. The only way the State of California can start to use the funds that have been appropriated to clean up the environmental disaster left behind by the now non-existant railroad is to turn the former rail line into a hiking trail. If even one small section of the line reverts to private ownership the entire easement will be lost. Ms. Merrifield seems to be advocating for environmental clean-up but is opposed to the trail that would have to be developed in order to do the clean-up. She seems to be saying the tribes don’t want the trail and would like the tiny strip of land used by the former railroad to be returned to tribal ownership. If that were to happen it would mean that the current environmental mess left behind by the railroad would remain in the exact toxic condition as it is today. Do the tribes have the funds to clean it up? Even if they could find the money to clean it up what would they do with the land? She seems to be advocating for doing nothing with the land and allow it to be wilderness which would be great except that it’s just a thin strip of land surrounded by privately owned land that will most likely never be returned to tribal ownership. Those private lands will continue to be used for ranching etc. Ms. Merrifield says the tribes need to be allowed to return to the land stolen by the railroad in order to protect their heritage and history which I happen to agree with and support but I don’t see how the tribes plan on cleaning up the railroad and protecting village sites, burial grounds, and other sacred sites when 99.9% of the land remains under private ownership. The land in question is exactly as described a thin ribbon wide enough to accommodate a railway or a trail. Cleaning up the railway and allowing public access for hiking seems to be the only viable method of accomplishing the tribes goals. The ridiculous notion that a remote hiking trail will somehow become a homeless encampment is laughable. Homeless folks need to be in environments that offer food, water, and shelter. A hiking trail has none of those assets. This trail is a limited opportunity and the clock is ticking. If the trail isn’t built the right of way will be lost and the land will fall into private ownership. If that happens it will never be cleaned up or returned to the tribes. We need seize this limited opportunity while we still have it.

Farce
Guest
Farce
2 years ago
Reply to  Money to Burn

Darn it! If this is true then I must completely reverse my opinion and be in support of this “trail”. Or at least until we get some funding to clean up some of the toxic mess that was left behind. I don’t like being wrong but…maybe I have been wrong in making fun of this plan

Al L Ivesmatr
Guest
Al L Ivesmatr
2 years ago

Yes! And the Democrat/Progressive land, ocean, and ultimate Ring Grab just hit the 3rd turn wall going 292 mph. No windmills, no great hippie trail, no salvaging the schemes as it’s off to the junkyard for all of it.
Our nations original and first homeland security has spoken. Oopsie, dreams crushed. I recommend you important people back off before the racist label gets tattooed on your foreheads permanently. Now you wouldn’t want that, would you Biden voters? Go build your trail in Malibu, fools.

Louis Iglesias
Guest
Louis Iglesias
2 years ago

During the time when the Railroad was operational, locomotives and freight cars sometimes ignited wildland fires. Suppression efforts were difficult to achieve due to the remoteness of the area. Reintroducing public access will undoubtedly continue the chances of these fires to return. In a time when the Eel will be flowing free without dams again, we should probably refrain from any developments and give time for nature to heal itself.

Korina42
Member
2 years ago
Reply to  Louis Iglesias

Backcountry trails can operate as both a fire break and as access for firefighters. The “developments” are a three-foot wide dirt path and taking all the trash out of the canyon and the river. How is this bad?

The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
2 years ago
Reply to  Korina42

You’re clearly not listening…

When it comes to knowledge of fire threats and accessibility, Mr. Iglesias, being a very experienced local Cal Fire Member, (Retired?), is what I would consider well versed.

I have seen him in action, and I am still grateful for his expertise.

It might be wise to pay a little closer attention to what he is saying…

A remote public thoroughfare, combined with inaccessible, sloped, flashy, mixed fir forest, and brushy grassland, along a windswept river channel, has the potential for quickly deteriating disaster, in the event of just one careless hiker causing an ignition.

That would be a very unfortunate development…

I live upslope from this proposed trail…

You can bet I am concerned, and Mr. Iglesias’ objections to it are merited.

Risk vs Gain, it does not balance out…

Last edited 2 years ago
The Real Guest
Guest
The Real Guest
2 years ago

Imagine how much of a negative impact on the Eel River Salmon and Steelhead Fishery any number of these proposed hikers with fishing rods will have on this otherwise basically undisturbed, minimally impacted by fishermen stretch of the Eel River…

The few fish that have survived until this point will be hooked and cooked…

The current situation is already so bleak that there is already no open fishing season for them on river or ocean…

And don’t try and tell me that somehow it will be properly patrolled by game wardens…

Has this been PROPERLY CONSIDERED…???

Will hunting be allowed…???

Will there be poaching…???

That will be another nightmare to deal with…

Diablo Blanco
Guest
Diablo Blanco
2 years ago
Reply to  The Real Guest

There is not much but pikeminnow in that river now days. An invasive species also known as squaw fish. How ironic.

Heart Humboldt
Member
Heart Humboldt
2 years ago

Anyone remember when a condor was spotted over Sequoia Park Zoo in April this year? If they aren’t frightened off of flying over Eureka, I doubt a few hikers and bikers in the wilderness will scare them off. Go condors! Can’t wait to see them reinhabit the entire north coast!

https://www.instagram.com/p/C7Jxq6qLhiU/

Money to Burn
Member
Money to Burn
2 years ago

Lots of people saying “leave it alone and allow nature to heal itself” How exactly will nature heal itself from the toxic mess left behind from the railroad? Every single railroad tie was soaked in toxic creosote. Railroad cars have been left behind in the canyon and in the river, poisoned soils from spilled fuels and chemicals, blocked fish passage and more. The concern about trash from hikers, illegal fishing, illegal camp fires all pale in comparison to the current situation. We need the government funded clean up that comes with the trail plain and simple. Nothing could be worse for the environment and the wildlife than “leaving it alone”.

Steve Koch
Guest
Steve Koch
2 years ago

Seems like the 1st step is to clean up environmental problems left by the railroad (eg: removing rail and ties).

That is going to take a while.
While that is going on, the requirements for the trail can be revisited with tribes and whoever else has issues/concerns.

Maybe a lighter touch with the trail initially (leaving it pretty wild with minimal improvements besides removing railroad debris and letting volunteers maintain) would be more acceptable.

The part of the appalachian trail that I hiked on was really wild and unimproved. You could not ride a bike on it without destroying the bike and yourself in the process.
That part was very up and down and rocky.
People frequently go off trail to urinate and defecate.
Seems like there may be Eel River water quality issues depending on volume of hikers.

A minimalist approach to the trail will save $, too.

Probably a good idea is to first focus on those parts of the trail with least significance to the tribes.

An incremental approach will permit us to learn as we go and improve the trail design for subsequent sections of the trail.

Need to fence the trail to minimize trespassing on private land adjacent to trail.

It would be cool to also be able to canoe in to the trail. That would require places to take out/put in and some mechanism for securing your canoe.

Lots of potential for this trail, could be amazing. Could also be a fiasco.

Korina42
Member
Truth Be Told
Member
Truth Be Told
2 years ago
Reply to  Korina42

You keep citing the GRT plan as if it provides answers to the many questions and concerns, especially in the Eel River Canyon.

Which makes me question if you’ve read the plan or even the article you’re commenting on?

From the article:

‘[As GRT Executive Director] Hogan explained, “Part of the reason that we haven’t been able to have the individual conversations with the Wailaki about where, specifically, their cultural sites are that we need to avoid in constructing the trail, is because we don’t have funding for planning any of those parts of the trail, through the Eel River Canyon. What we have right now with the Draft Master Plan is a real high-level overview.”

Which means there is no actual “plan” and none of the concerns have been evaluated or addressed.

The so-called Great Redwood Trail, at least through the canyon, is nothing more than a visionary concept with no plan for how it will be constructed or maintained or how the numerous other concerns will be addressed.

John
Guest
John
2 years ago

As a 4th generation California of European ancestry, I feel we should all leave these lands and go back to where our own ancestors came from. I feel such overwhelming guilt.

Korina42
Member
2 years ago

FYI, the comment period has been extended to July 3.

Scott
Guest
Scott
2 years ago

The Great Redwood Trail is taking away from what really should be saved; The Skunk Train and rail freight service.