[UPDATE Monday] Court Deals EPIC a Setback in Richardson Grove Ruling
Richardson Grove [Photo from Caltrans]
STAA trucks have a longer cab length and are banned from the Grove which means that trucks of that class from the Bay Area seeking to go north of the area must go up I-5 and cross at Hwy 299 rather than come up 101. Trucks heading south on 101 have to cross over 299 and go south on I-5 rather than continue on 101.
The court agreed with Caltrans that it had conducted appropriate environmental reviews. It noted that no old growth redwoods would be removed under the plan. It told the lower court it had erred.
However, EPIC, one of the plaintiffs, is considering other options. In a letter to their supporters, they stated,
It is not over for our litigation to save Richardson Grove. Not even close. At the federal level, we are considering whether to ask for a rehearing at the Ninth Circuit, but whether or not we do so, we still have our other claims to pursue and we are going to vigorously prosecute them. As this most recent decision shows, there is no way to guarantee how courts will decide things, but we are confident in our chances. At the state level, Caltrans has not yet completed the new public comment and review period mandated by the state court. Until they do so, the project cannot move forward.
Read more in the SF Chronical here.
UPDATE Monday: Caltrans statement on the ruling
The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals’ recent decision affirms there will be no significant impact to the health or stability of old-growth redwoods in Richardson Grove. No old-growth trees will be removed during the project, and construction crews will exercise extra caution by using hand tools when feasible. The proposed US 101 improvements through Richardson Grove aim to make minor alterations to select curves that will allow for standard-sized truck access along a 1.1-mile stretch of the highway.
NOTE: The reporter’s husband works for Caltrans and her father and her grandfather both worked for Caltrans, too.
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Today was a great day for seeing sleazy bad-faith litigants getting owned. First Texas AG Paxton and now EPIC.
Yee Haw,get your popcorn ready.
Cut the trees, widen the bridges and the road, and let’s go. EPIC is nothing more than a bunch of sue happy freaks, who care nothing for the environment. If they did, there would be no illegal grows, nor diesel grows. There would not have been the August complex fire, the most destructive in many years. This is how they make their living, by suing and threatening like spoiled little baby’s, as they cannot hold a real job that involves physical labor. We teach all the children in our freedom schools how evil you are, and that you live off the sweat of the private taxpayer. What would be fair, would be that if they want to litigate, they pay for it, and win or lose. Because right now, they can sue, and then make those who they sue pay all the court costs. Fuck you greedy little punks. Call your legislators and demand the laws are changed to make them pay, not the taxpayer, not those they sue. Protest in front of their offices. Stop Epic. Who donates to them? Protest in front of their offices too.
I think EPIC went off the rails with the RG suit, but you are delusional if you really think somehow EPIC existing caused the August complex. Its silly. Richardson Grove is the most developed, least old growth tree threatening, lowest energy, easiest for the geographically challenged site for a law suit.
Maybe if Epic had sued a bunch of redneck marijuana growers instead of CalTrans, we wouldn’t have had so many lightning strikes in the national forest this year. Thor HATES redneck marijuana growers!
The Richardson Grove is one of the nicest places to drive in California and let alone the world I love driving through those trees it’s one of my favorite things to do in my life can’t we leave anything for us to enjoy or is it all about money to some people can’t Caltrans the road developer kings ‘s of world with all there engineers figure out a different route around these literally magnificent trees so we could have some thing nice in our area and in our state forever. The experience of driving through those trees is some thing that I love to share every time I bring someone to visit this area and people always enjoy it and I think that’s one of the things that keeps people coming to this area and one of the few things we have left thats beautiful in this area. Those trees are also iconic of Northern California . Please leave us one beautiful iconic special place Caltrans. Its in your hands . Caltrans you CAN say we WILL find a way to preserve these trees and do something nice for the people and future generations and the preservation of a truly special natural beauty to enjoy not just make decisions based on money . Its a truly special feeling to drive through that grove of massive prehistoric looking trees. Please caltrans let it stay its in your hands .
Someone get Guesty a box of tissues! We have the whole Avenue of the Giants which is so much more spectacular than Richardson Grove to drive through. Plus there are hiking trails all over the place through the old growth. Caltrans has the obligation to make travel on major highways safe for everyone. Richardson Grove is dangerous for everyone. There is no reason not to improve this section except for the environmental wack jobs who have lost all reasonable credibility because they protest everything for the sake of the protest, not for any legitimate cause. They, themselves are the environmental hazards.
Thats laughable the safer for everyone were just trying to help you line that predators of all shape and form use. Tissues for you Alf maybe needed but not for me when im saying I personally enjoy the experience of driving through that area ….Your the one crying. Im saying find another route if possible. I think other people enjoy the entrance or gateway of redwoods into Northern California. What do you or anyone have to gain from this or is this all about what ? Money? Im definitely not an environmental wack job but you sound like a wack job. This your reasoning smart guy in nut job shell duh duh we duh need the bigger trucks we need more duh stuff duh to be delivered duh but why duuuh we need duuuuh more stuff. But why dduuuh more stuff. We duuuh need more duuuuuh stuff from duuh big trucks. So you duh duuuh Cut the thousand duuh year old trees down for duuuh more stuff duh duh duuh we get more stuff here thats my reasoning duuh duuh duh more stuff. And actually im saying also population north of there is quite low anyways to need duuh more stuff and stuff. Lower the speed limit so people won’t crash especially those duuuuh big giant big rigs that are like the weight of 20 automobiles but go the same speed as a three thousand pound honda . I like driving slow through that area and enjoying it, i couldn’t careless if the bigger trucks can go through. Who does want this but only corporations and maybe truck drivers. What does anyone have to gain? Lower the speed limit to make it safer since its a short stretch it wont effect the precious truck drivers schedule much. And slow down when it’s raining wich is obvious. And thats that.
It’s a freeway so no reason we shld have to drive 20-30 mph so some oldies can enjoy looking at the trees (which they shldnt be cuZ their eyes shld be on the road). Either widen the road to make it safer or build a by-pass.
Doesn’t CalTrans plan emit any large trees from being cut? What’s the problem here really?
I’m with you save the trees. There aren’t that many left. Judi Beri come save us and the trees. The road is plenty safe just keep idiots in their driveways till the training wheels come off. Infinite growth on finite planet mathematically doesnt work. Wake the fuck up.
RG is perfectly safe for drivers that slow down and go the speed limit. It is not about safety. Safety is addressed perfectly by slowing down. It is about shipping companies being able to ship things cheaper by using longer trucks. Period. If we’re going to argue about something, let’s try to argue about the facts.
All they have to do is run the road on the west side of the park all the old growth have already been cut there sounds like cal-trans wants to cut them trees if you hike that area there is a few ways to build that road without removing them trees
“STAA trucks have a longer cab length”
Thats actually not correct. STAA applies to the overall length of the truck and trailer combined and has nothing to do with the cab length. The area in Richardson Grove is limited to 65 feet overall length.
My understanding is that STAA trucks have a larger turning radius which is why they aren’t allowed on many roads–in practice this extra length is because they have sleeper cabs which allow for longer hauls. But it is possible that I have misunderstood this. Let me check into it.
Ok folks A semi truck length is determined by it’s total length A 255 inch wheel base tractor is still the same but pulling A 45 48 or 53 foot trailer is what makes the vehicle lencth
Kym, like many laws its a little hard to decipher but you have misunderstood it. If you talk to Redway Fire Chief Brian Anderson he could probably best explain it to you best. Its pretty much only about overall, combined length of truck and trailer but there is an issue with kingpin to rear axle length also but thats even tougher to explain. Thanks for checking.
The thing that is tragic here is this lack of access costs every person in
Humboldt, every day. This heroic war to save less than 5 new growth trees and a bunch of scrub has kept Humboldt County the last place in America STAA trucks can’t reach. They don’t make non-STAA trucks anymore so it costs a lot more to get anything in and out of Humboldt County. I used to own a business here and you were at a pricing disadvantage out of the gate due to shipping costs for anything you bought, or wanted to ship out.
This isn’t clear cutting, it is freaking road maintenance. Aren’t there real climate issues to battle?
I don’t think people understand what is at stake. And I think EPIC (whom in general I support) is overselling this fight. People think this is going to irrevocably change Richardson Grove, but it’s not. One year after it is done. People won’t be able to tell that a change was made.
This is an EPIC cash cow.
They have probably received more monetary support for this cause than for any other cause they have represented.
Probably trying to drum up more funds by opposing this non-issue again, even though they know they stand no chance of winning.
“We lost… , But we won’t stop fighting!… , Cha-Ching!, Cha-Ching! It’s for your own good! Cha-Ching!, Cha-Ching! Send us your loot!
Cha-Ching!, Cha-Ching!
Another Court battle!
Another Court battle!
Stop the Stihl!
Stop the Stihl!
Cha-Ching!, Cha-Ching!,
Cha-Ching!, Cha-Ching!
Sound familiar ?
Don’t fall for it.
“They don’t make non-STAA trucks anymore”
Thats actually not accurate. STAA relates to a combined length of truck and trailer. You could take virtually any brand new truck and as long as it wasn’t pulling a trailer that made the combination over 65 ft. it would be legal to travel through the grove. I do agree with the rest of your post.
Bypass Richardson Grove. There is no reason to run rigs through there.
Run your rigs over 299. Hundreds of millions of dollars were spent to improve 299.
There is going to be a mega-protest blocking the proposed project. The Willits bypass was held up for years, due to poor processes proposed by Caltrans! Do they really want to fight this battle again?
Just build the bypass, or ban rigs North of Willits! Do you really need 300 kinds of shampoo and 400 different cheap-ass bras at Target?
The rigs are in too many wrecks already! Instead of bulldozing the grove, try demanding responsible trucking!
Learn to grow your dope in the dirt. All those loads of “potting media” are destructive to the environment anyway…
The population is shrinking. Use 299.
I’m sure that if we do the “right thing” and marginally increase Walmart’s profit margins, they’ll reduce the price of toothpaste for us. Its not like those prices are set at a national level, right? /s
Burns more fuel going way way out of the way. Remember its not just Walmart junk that rolls through. Its your Prius batteries, tibeten rugs, organic avocados, you name it.
I wish kym would implement a like button 😂
Right?!
Read: Shift Happens: Breakdowns Along Life’s Long Hauls, Margot Genger
This is a cool memoir that includes growing up in Eureka in the ’70s. She drives long haul trucks for a few years in the early ’80s. One time she talked a partner into diverting up through Humboldt so she could go through Eureka. She describes troubles squeezing through Richardson’s Grove back in ’83.
She also describes somewhere else in the book driving through the South. There were billboards that read, “Make America White Again!” Ah ha!… so that’s where ‘MAGA’ came from! Genger’s book was published a few years ago, so there’s no political partisanship there!
Another example of the liberals ruining the lives of hard working Americans. They obviously have not herd that the most effecient route is a straight line. Big money lobby wins a gain. Looks like they stole this to.
HLM
Oh boy, maybe we’ll finally get a home depot to put put local lumber yards out of business!
They’ve been talking about it behind closed doors for awhile. The mill yard, almquist, piersons etc, places that treat their employees like assets and carry quality material, will suffer.
Yeah right we REALLY NEED more “BIG BOX stores” & less Mom & Pop stores!!! Then there’s the story about Cinderella, it’s a classic Faery Tale also!!!
Big box stores are in this area without improved transportation links. Small businesses are hit more than big box stores by higher shipping costs.
Home Depot means we don’t have waste gas going down South or Crescent City to purchase items most of our local stores don’t carry or charge an arm & leg for.
“Oh boy, maybe we’ll finally get a home depot to put put local lumber yards out of business!”
That would be awesome! Fuck those bastards. They’re closed on every holiday (at least Pearsons is) when people finally have a day off to get shit done around the house. And they close early, good riddance. I’m sure they’ve gotten very rich charging way more than Home Depot does. You libs hate the rich, what gives?
Seriously, you are mad because they have the same holidays off that you do? That takes a special kind of selfishness to hold that against them.
“Another example of the liberals ruining the lives of hard working Americans. They obviously have not herd that the most effecient route is a straight line.”
Spot on! Then they’ll bitch about capitalism when their shit costs more money due to longer trucking routes, insane regulation and endless litigation. Liberalism is a mental disorder.
Im a “liberal” by your standards. I have also HEARD of the quickest way between two points. I try to navigate my commercial trucks on those routes. EPIC doesn’t reflect my opinions. In fact I group them over in the hyperbolic nonsense category with you.
“In fact I group them over in the hyperbolic nonsense category with you.”
Then you’re probably not a liberal by my standards. I think it’s none of the governments business what drugs I or any other adult ingest. I believe any two adults should be able to marry each other. I am totally against wars in far away countries that liberals now seem to love. I am not religious and I am against the death penalty, yet no way in hell do I consider myself a liberal.
What do you call a Party that went completely morally and ethically bankrupt prostrating at the feet of a morally and ethically bankrupt demagogue?
You’re DONE !! No longer the Republican Party, you encourage your cult leader to shit on our Democracy in as many ways as possible in an attempt to “own the Libs”.
Now the Trumplican Party is a Conspiracy based fantasy Party.
You’re not Patriots so quit waving the American Flag.
And please, send your Billionaire God some more money to “overturn the election” ( you seditionists) , he pockets .70cents on the dollar while playing out his grift till the bitter end.
I cannot WAIT till he is buried in lawsuits and indictments.
If you could get from the beginning of just one sentence to the end of it without intellectual and emotional derailing into hate, it would not be so useless. It’s unlikely that any amount of reality will ever leak into such thinking.
If you people that don’t want to hear the truth about Trump wouldn’t resort to accusing those that dislike Trump of HATE in an effort to shut them up it sure would be nice.
And once again, not an inkling of a lecture for those HATING on Liberals.
Just stop it. What is you’re problem?
Calling people “Haters” is pretty lame. Miss Manners biased attempt at trying to shut me up is once again a joke. Stop trying, it’s futile. You don’t moderate this site.
Does hearing the truth bother you?
You asked so here’s my problem. If something is said that is real, even if disagreeable, consensus can be found and civility maintained. People can agenot to agree on this one thing. And work together on others.
However if a person says unreasonable, hateful things out of sheer emotional spite, then the choice is either to ignore the speaker or to try to present a more reasoned viewpoint. If ignored, then they spread their ugliness like a plague. If the more reason is tried, it then results in being included in being hated. No consensus is ever possible nor civility maintained. A moderate person is forced more and more into support of what they would rather not support. The usual term is polarizing. And if the US gets more polarized than it is, it will never be able to meet any emergency and chaos ensues. And here we are right now.
If you notice, you have been treated civily I would reciprocation. But it’s not likely.
How and who’s lives “would be RUINED”??
All the small businesses destroyed by the likes of WALMART can explain it to you
Amazon has and will kill more small businesses than any big box store. Last time I checked Amazon employs nobody at any wage in Humboldt.
UPS, USPS, FedEx but it’s not as good as local jobs. But then I’m somewhat a protectionist.
Actually, a straight line is the shortest distance between two points. Geometry doesn’t measure efficiency. Sometimes it’s more efficient to go around things.
This is not a big deal .Relax , its just maintenance .
7 redwoods from 4 to 19 inches in diameter at breast height.
27 Douglas Fir from 4-23 inches in diameter at breast height.
some tan oak and maple also none bigger than 22 inches in diameter at breast height.
construction would occur within the root zone of old growth redwood
Please tell us how I-5 and 299 are a more efficient route from the east bay transportation hub than 580 and 101.
EPIC’s press release says they are trying to “save” Richardson grove. That is manipulative and dishonest. The grove itself is not threatened. some second/third growth is. Richardson grove is not wilderness, it has a freeway in the middle of it, and an old restaurant/motel. It is nothing more than a roadside advertisement for how nice real wilderness and Redwood trees are.
maybe Mr. Beck could chime in and state who this project benefits. if i was a nut i would use the word agenda 21, but target and walmart seem like more appropriate words. i guess you could also add dollar general and In-N-out to that list. maybe keeping the road the same is a better route for the community.
Wrong. Higher shipping costs impact small businesses more than they do mega-retailers who run their own fleets. Higher shipping costs also impact local recycling.
The pressure for CalTrans to ruin a scenic drive is definitely coming from big box stores. The trees and the beauty will be gone forever so a few companies can add an incremental boost to profits for one quarter. Then the big boxes will be looking for the next forest to flatten in their quest for more profit.
Cal-Trans, it is okay to say ‘no’ to corporate interests, or tell them to take the long way around. They’ve been doing it for decades, and they’ll live.
How do you think local stores get their goods to sell? They are in competition with online stores yet their overhead is higher. Making the goods more expensive to sell in store while buyers pay the shipping for online goods is not a winner for local business or customers.
round trip to Benicia is still over the daily limit no matter how this stretch is altered, so the cost of our fuel will not change.
Today’s show was brought to you by the letters S,T,I,H and L
My vote is for bypass as well. Having lived just south of that stretch for years the trucks that do come through are causing hazards. I’ve seen many wrecks, trucks driving way over the double yellow, trucks clipping trees on the edge of the highway, etc. Someone actually showed me old plans once that Caltrans was planning on bypassing the area by going up hill just west into the park I think in the late 50s but it obviously never happened, not sure why.
I don’t have a problem with fixing richardson grove as long as the old growth is left alone.and I’m a redneck republican timber faller.but I’m with you,a bypass should be built and leave the grove for the tourists
The old bypass plan ran through redwoods. Construction there would have to destroy old growth redwoods. This current plan does not take out any old growth redwoods.
Do you support the “project”?
Kym is part of a CALTRANS family, didn’t you know?
Yes. I’ve supported it for about 10 years since I read the actual proposed activity on the site. Once I realized that no old growth trees were being taken down and that even ferns in many places were being dug up and then replanted in areas, the advantages weighed against the disadvantages seemed obvious.
Here’s one early piece I wrote. https://kymkemp.com/2011/02/19/demonizing-the-opposition/
Although most regular readers know this, I should also state that my husband, my father, and my grandfather all work/ed for Caltrans.
What a stupid thing to actually voice support for. The concrete jungle doesn’t need help, it’s growing every single day whether you like it or not. You’ll deny it, but you take the place you live for granted.
Read the EIR? Give it a try. It’s relatively easy to understand with pictures even.
EIR’s are a joke of a formality and everybody knows it. Tell me with a straight face that this “ruling” wasn’t predictable before the EIR was even written, and I’ll say you’re a good liar. It’s 2020, not 1950.
Do you have any thoughts on the symbolic nature of prioritizing a freeway through one of the last remaining old growth groves on the planet?
No freeway is being built through any old growth./ The current road needs to be realigned for safety purposes. That means straightened out which mean removal of some trees. NO OLD GROWTH is being threatened. People who are complaining about big box stores taking over are forgetting that these big rigs haul goods and materials of all kinds, including animal feed, that are needed by businesses and communities of all sizes north of there. Would not hurt to have some kind of a center turn lane in their either for safety of people pulling in and out of Singing Trees, the State Park, Legend of Bigfoot etc.
That’s tired rhetoric, the specifics are well known, and business as usual is moving along at a steady clip sans freeway “improvement”.
You and Kym are dodging the issue.
The only impending crisis is environmental and the subsequent mandates and regulations that are ramping up to hit you and everybody else with skyrocketing costs of living and deteriorated quality of life. It’s already going to get very very bad. Not overnight, but this was major news and discussion in the 90’s and it’s an exponential negative curve that we’re all experiencing. The year round fog in San Francisco is gone forever. The year round overcast days along the coast are gone forever. More days of rain than not in winter are gone forever. It’s just starting. We’re going to experience “extreme weather events” that will make you a believer. Severe ice storms are coming soon.
Do you or Kym have any thoughts on the symbolic nature of prioritizing the freeway through one of the last remaining old growth groves on the planet?
Not rhetoric just facts, something you have a problem with.
“Freeway?” Give me a break. Richardson Grove is more of a scenic attraction than an ecologically significant stand of old growth. The park facilities and have a major impact. You want to get rid of those?
Fact: you will complain about “green” mandates.
And you will flip a finger. Problem with limited vocabularies.
Welcome to America! People here are free to support what they wish without regard for your opinion. Enjoy your stay!
Smudge pots, no automatic transmissions, steel ice cold cabs in the winter time. Through the generations Caltrans has kept our travels safe.
Maintenance crews keeping the roads open are unsung heroes.
If I am not mistaken, there was also a tunnel plan, but it wasn’t very realistic.
Underground movements always face opposition.
The tunnel plan probably would have passed, but CalTrans refused to include protections or mitigations or employment opportunities for the rare and endangered Spotted Mole.
CalTrans spent fortunes on feasibility studies, but spy as they might, not even one Mole was ever Spotted.
They did finally realize, however, that there was no shortage of Plants that were hiding in plain sight among them.
They didn’t know which posed the greatest threat, so they decided to just Grade them all.
Problem solved.
The bypass wasn’t built because it wasn’t a good idea. It’s now just a pie-in-the-sky pipe dream of the grovies.
So what exactly is the problem? The 1950s; 60s & 70s were the heyday of logging and lumber with millions of loads of lumber, logs, logging equipment, mill machinery & assorted going through Richardson Grove just fine.
How many D-8s with angle blades were hauled through here? Yarders? Loading machines of all kinds? Sawmill machinery; boilers & power plant machinery? Loads of piles, over length specialty timbers? All of this made it through here quite nicely.
Those were the days when we had a lot fewer do-nothing bureaucrats — and — we had real drivers. Men born in this country who learned their job well and took pride in their work.
It seems we`ve destroyed enough of of our world — does someone really feel good about themselves for destroying one of the last vestiges of the natural world so a few old geezers in motorhomes can go on their way to nowhere a little faster?
Truck length laws used to be way more restrictive, and variable around the country. Trucks were just smaller. The rest of the roadways were not much better than the RG stretch. There are still narrow sections of old hwy 101 you can walk on.. Like the bend a little north of the Peg House
Among other things the trees along the road HAVE GOTTEN BIGGER IN THE LAST 30 – 50 YEARS IN CASE YOU HAVE NOT NOTICED. This means the roadway has narrowed. Cars and trucks have also gotten bigger.
One of the most observable facts of the matter is roadside trees along 101 are dying top down at an increasing rate. Big jump starting around 2005. Take a good look at top dead trees right now, and start paying attention.
The railway was the main link for heavy hauling during the 1950s, 60s, and 70s. The highway only became competitive with the railway after improvements cut hauling times by about half, truck length restrictions were lifted, and railway maintenance costs rose after the 1964 flood.
Every candidate for every office in Humboldt should have stated their position on this subject. Every elected official should state their position on this subject.
Very sad, very predictable. Natural environment, literally and symbolically, isn’t respected by the greater government. Before the year 2050, major drought will force water rationing in Humboldt County. We’ll be drinking and bathing in recycled tweaker piss like most cities already do. All the new industry and infrastructure dumped onto this land will be an environmental and financial burden to everybody who lives here. The money grabbers who don’t live here, don’t care. They’re building their walmarts and targets and fast food shitstops to funnel money out of here. They’re mandating dense development to swell the population and force us into complacence through sheer numbers of 100% indentured servitude to global corporate leaders, until our natural resources are stripped.
Yet I doubt that you live in a hollow red Sox tee without running water.
Is your overhead the issue? You complain about all the ills this type of long term infrastructure brings as a result, every day on this forum. You’re a blabber beotch, is what you are.
It’s really unconscionable to do this but it is just so entertaining
Also, this court “ruling” really has nothing to do with any one organization, and it’s sad that Epic is made the face of a global concern. Literally one of the last remaining old growth redwood groves on the planet, among the last 3% of the forest that once made northern California a true rainforest. A national vote over this issue would put Caltrans in their place within the first hour of polling, as they’d lose popular opinion by an overwhelming landslide.
It’s a symbolic gesture as much as anything, and everybody knows it. They’re saying stability is not an option, and you will be buried by all things “progress”.
You use an interesting handle for someone so allergic to facts.
Fact: a national vote of the issue would cancel the project by a landslide. People in New York don’t care about Humboldt’s big boxes. Do you care about New York’s big boxes? People everywhere care about protected forests.
Fact: big box stores are already in Humboldt. Fact: shipping costs are more of a disadvantage for small and independent businesses than they are for big boxes. Fact: you are speculating about how the nation would vote on usurping the State of California’s jurisdiction over State land. Fact: usurping State jurisdiction over State land is unconstitutional.
Imagine that. People are more concerned about having to live with the choices than people who don’t have to live with them. What is not clear is why that someone would not know that.
Just leave the road and Richardson Grove alone and begin to lose the filthy habit of driving cars and trucks no matter what fuels them. CalTrans is nothing more than the government arm of the transportation business and courts are used to tidy up their dirty work.
Personal vehicles = freedom.
Personal vehicles do give freedom both to improve and destroy. Horses and Mountain bikes on trails create destruction and they serve no purpose except entertainment. At least paving limits the damage if the vehicles are confined to them. Too many people doing too much of anything is going to be destructive and in the end eliminate those freedoms any way.
Public transportation =control by the powers that be. Irresponsibly does need to be considered.
I’m sure you’re willing to freeze and starve for your principles.
To each according to their needs, from each according to their ability.
I say if you want to live in a big box retail area, move. Love it here or leave don’t try to change it. We live here because it’s not a big city and small business can thrive. We live here because of the trees and solitude. I work in timber and construction, always have. I could make more money in the city but I choose to live here because I like it the way it is. I may not like epic and it’s way of going about things, but I support this fight. If you don’t like our community and want more traffic, more big box stores, more people all around, then leave, go to the city and leave us alone.
Hear hear !!!!!
Thank you! I concur…Best comment on here! there are many many places not like this and they have “everything you want”….
The conflict comes when people who like it here come without an ability to survive without making demands on others. Can you tell a drug addict shitting on the streets he has no right to be here? The mentally ill looking for less stress but still plenty able to cause it? Or a pot grower who makes money wants the truck load of soil, plastic for hoop houses and plumbing to minimize labor and maximize profit? The drug dealer peddling a good time to the bored? Or disabled person needing a lift to get into an apartment but doesn’t work should demand equal access? Or an artist who needs to ship their work to the big city to earn enough to live? Or the mentally ill looking for relief from big city stress but still plenty able to create it themselves? If a place is attractive, it does not attract just the self sufficient. It especially attracts those who want the good but bring the bad.
The trouble with the theory of ‘let them go elsewhere’ is that most frequently the ones who do are those working to supply needs to while those who are awful at that but good a demanding they be supplied by others come.
To answer your questions-Yes, no, yes, yes, no, ridiculous because artists aren’t shipping out art in huge trucks, no again (a repeated question). Your argument is full of holes. It’s almost like you decided your stance and then fished around to justify it (I know, I know -everybody does that nowadays). We already have trucks coming and going. We are talking about “Do we really need bigger trucks for the essentials we require….Or are we straightening the road for crap we don’t need and if so then aren’t we just being played for patsies to pay for the road and possibly damage the old growth roots so big corporate stores can colonize our area? I think that’s the essential question. (And yeah- I did say all the drug addicts and mega-growers are not worth the hard-working taxpayers paying to widen the road and possibly damage the ancient trees …but I still think that’s a red herring question)
The point was that you can’t tell anyone they can’t live here, if they are compatible or not. Love it or leave it? Has that ever worked?
Welcome to Guests world. Most of her/his comments makes you scratch your head if you can even figure out what was trying to be said.
Here’s my idea. Put a stoplight at a north and south ends of the Grove. Lights turn red and alternate green at midnight til 4 or 5 AM. Large trucks be allowed during this time. This would make the Grove two lanes wide and trucks would have no problem. No further construction or degradation needed. Worth a discussion at least.
straighten that stretch out and you will be able to go really fast.. we will see some wonderfully huge crashes.
Bigger trucks don’t necessarily drive faster. They just can’t go at all because of some of the spacing. The smaller ones speed and sometimes lose their loads because the speed at which they can safely not shift their load is below the already low speed limit on a few curves. New drivers are always making that mistake.
Sooner or later the grove will burn to the ground or blow to the ground or flood will take it out or a slide will take it out. Then a straight road will be punched in or maybe not. Probably wall it off as a historical site and the dead decaying trees on the ground can rot in peace.
Little Mr. Sunshine you are
Tear it down while there’s still time before something else does! No matter which side of the issue you are on, this has got to be one of worst perspectives I’ve ever heard. Tear it down, tear it down, it doesn’t work, tear it down! What will replace it? You never think that part through when asking to demloish institutions, regulations, rule of law, nature, etc. Tear it down because something else might first or it doesn’t work, is not a solution! You never have answers to problems. It is always your final solution to tear it down. If you want to destroy everything without any answers to rebuild, improve, or preserve in a constructive way, society is left with nothing other than voids where important things once stood. They dont come back. Institutions were created for a reason, regulations were created for a reason, preserves were created for a reason. The wisdom of past generations should be considered rather than just your short view of history in the last 20-30years. I don’t know what the right answer is here on nature vs. “progress”, but to destroy majestic organisms that have stood for thousands of years before something else does is a completely disgusting ideology. When your grandchild asks you why your generation decided to decimate the last of the great whatever? You will say, “Well sweetie, you see….we just did it because it was still there at the time and we still could!”
Those trees are 1000 plus years old. They’ve seen fire, floods, slides. They are still there.
Hell yeah I’ll give it a run! but that sounds like fun and that’s a BIG no-no in humbolt. plus the dust and chance of taking out a spotted owl (with a sick whip) save the redwood league be on your ass
everything is a double-edge sword. low-income housing complexes, which seem to the theme, equals big box purchasing. the development in Mck “town center” will be another disaster. to think low income housing and small boutique stores go together is like saying more rental units equals higher rent, lol.
Yes. There’s a schizophrenia that demands that people have the right to live anywhere they want and be supplied with their needs yet those who supply goods for those who live there are greedy for doing it. One thing that government could do rather than legislating low income housing be supplied is for government to locate goverment jobs in low income places so that people can earn the wherewithal to pay for housing themselves. Can’t see that flying in Sacramento though.
Those trucks have been driving through the grove as is for many years. This is such a shame, to lose any part of the gateway to beyond the redwood curtain. It makes me sad and angry when there are so many road project CALTRANS could use those dollars to improve. What a waste.
Different trucks: shorter, less fuel efficient, higher cost. The only thing that will change is the radius of the 30 MPH corner at the north entrance to the park. That and more efficient trucks being able to use the route.
It’s not even that. It’s the incompatibility with shipping elsewhere in the country that requires sending a truck to a nexus that’s out of the way, unloading a big truck normally used , moving some of the load to smaller trucks and reloading the bigger one back up. Just adds extra costs, time and fuel. But I suppose it does add some employment in places that do it.
The Gateway is actually just upstream from Mad Creek, on Rattlesnake Creek, just north of 101.
N 39.8286, W 123.6063
I really don’t think we need people driving faster through the park while tourist are entering and leaving it. It will obviously make it more dangerous if people don’t have to slow down.
I’ve seen CalTran’s plan and yes it mentions trees to be removed thru the grove. Guess what-no big redwoods-only A FEW DECIDUOUS trees up to 8″ in diameter. This big scream over trees being cut down is BS scare tactics by the Epics and radicals.
The sharp current corner/turns will be smoothed out in a manner to allow the longer trucks to pass. This is logical (I know u won’t agree) and feasible.
YEP. Go ahead and appeal. This the season to WHINE WHINE WHINE
So why are you WHINING? You non-whiners WHINE all the time, every time.
Condemning the shenanigans of EPIC is not whining.
You are correct. EPIC plays a disinformation campaign to incite and alarm. But the project can be opposed for other reasons. I oppose it for other reasons. And I’m not whining…I just like the trees, don’t want damage to their roots to kill them and it’s certainly not worth this risk and expense to accommodate the faster-faster-more-more colonization and idiot consumer wants of a population push up here. And I’d like a Home Depot to compete with Piersons- but not enough to blow open the redwood curtain!
Cheap goods and services. The Sino-American tradition.
The Biden tradition… https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/06/us/politics/biden-china.html
The so-called root damage issue has already been addressed. If you think that’s a real issue, look how close to the pavement many healthy redwoods are growing in that area.
If that s so then I am behind on this issue. A link would be appreciated but I guess I’ll have to go find it for myself….was pretty sure there was no definitive answer to the potential root damage. I hear what you say but just looking at what is doesn’t provide definitive proof. I had heard the digging was going to be deep and the compacting extreme…and nobody could really say? Anyways- thanks for directly addressing the crux of my concern.
I kept saying that I love the trees, the water that flowed through them and the animals that lived in them but that didn’t stop the clear cut by my neighbors in 2 acre exemptions until the whole area was cleared. Now there three pot farms instead. I have serious skepticism about an organization that is silent on that but noisy about this.
Summed up in writing by your own self! You’re a hypocrite as well!
You didn’t come to defend my trees. Nor any of the hundreds of thousands lost to grows. Hypocrisy indeed that see the speck in their neighbors eye but ignores the log in their own.
EPIC isn’t about to bite the hand that feeds them. Lots of pot money has been laundered via “donations” to EPIC and other “nonprofit” environmental groups. Remember the Amber Jamison case?
No. I don’t know it.
https://lostcoastoutpost.com/2011/jun/13/most-weed-youve-ever-seen-one-place/
Kym must like spotted owls (I know they just got brought up again in the news) or save the redwood league. Deleted last comment. no fun in humbolt lol if you build it they will come (with big fat sick whips) ok I’m having fun lol
Just to provide a little information amongst all the noise and fervor over this issue, I thought I’d run a little math. If you drive from Santa Rosa to Eureka on the 101 it’s 217 miles while if you take I-5 and 299 it’s 342 miles or an additional 125 miles (and 3 hours more according to Google maps).
This means for the average STAA truck, they’ll burn an extra 50 gallons of diesel in a round trip (assuming 5 miles per gallon which is probably conservative) which means an extra 509 kg of CO2 emitted per trip. Assuming 10 trucks per day for a year (wild, baseless assumption because I have no idea what the real number is), that would be an extra 1858 tons of CO2 emitted per year. A trivial amount in the grand scheme of things perhaps, but still something to keep in mind with our ongoing climate crisis.
And a little tidbit for you Cy – widening and/or straightening roads actually results in increased traffic of all kinds. You’ll need your multi-variable calculus text if you want to assess the real, longer term impact of this project.
Lots more traffic, all of it faster than today.
Thank you.
It’s far greater than 10 trucks pr day. An average of 142 four-axel trucks pass by the Eureka city limits each day on 101. An additional 324 five-axel trucks (milk, gasoline, logs) pass there as well. https://dot.ca.gov/-/media/dot-media/programs/traffic-operations/documents/census/f0017681-2016-aadt-truck-a11y.pdf (search “Eureka” ramps and markers).
WHEN IN DOUBT, LET NATURE WIN OUT,
Cmon people bigger trucks = less trucks/ pollution (at least ideally) a couple of awesome trees will give their life for a decent reason
“ Fun with facts” has never heard of Tordon, until they look it up. It’s from the 80’s. Still available today only not in 55 gallon bead form.
ere is no need whatsoever to have big rigs come up here unless you want to develop big box stores to sell us more and more shit from China or who knows where else. This is just designed to turn us into good little beige consumers of standard crap no one needs. What we need from elsewhere can perfectly be driven as is currently. Those willing to trade beautiful nature for the chance of more plastic junk are sad folks , trying to fill sad lives with sad junk…you should try nature…it works magic on one’s soul. And for those telling us it’ll create jobs…what jobs…what kind of jobs are you actually believing this would bring?
Problem trees?
Ring ’em.
Problem solved…