Dr. Frankovich Talks Kids And Covid, Locals Spreading Covid More Than Tourists, And HSU Making Plans To Open

Humboldt County’s Public Health Officer Dr. Teresa Frankovich has been answering questions since the stay-at-home orders were instituted on a two question per media outlet roughly two times a week basis. The Emergency Operations Center takes the questions, and staff reads them on camera for their response. The resulting video, called a Media Availability, is then provided to news outlets at the end of the day.

Here are some of the main points covered in the July 31st Media Availability session with a summary of answers from Dr. Frankovich. 

A statement from local DHHS Director Connie Beck was posted at the start of the video, which addressed many questions submitted by local media in regard to the recent article containing an interview with a local nurse who spoke about circumstances surrounding the four elderly Alder Bay residents lost to COVID-19.  Dr. Frankovich did not address the recent article or the questions related, in the July 31st Media Availability.

Media Question:  Can you speak to your understanding of current science on children and COVID-19? Are children still as unlikely to contract COVID as originally thought? If they do get ill, is there science about continuing side effects? Are there studies about the children transmitting COVID to at-risk populations?

Answer by Dr. Frankovich: 

So, again, you know, because the nature of this particular virus and the fact that children overall are less likely to have significant symptoms, our assumption is that many more children are probably get infections than we ever become aware ofThat being said, there is some emerging evidence that young children in particular seem to be not as significant in transmitting the virus whereas older children and adults are a more significant player in transmission.  And it’s not really understood why at this point, that young children aren’t effective particularly at transmitting COVID on large scales.  It could be some a range of, you know, factors that play into this.  There are people who think part of it may be that, because children are smaller, and they’re just, they’re not as tall- they’re breathing at a different level- perhaps they’re not exposing adults as much as, you know, another adult.  

It’s possible that children, because of smaller lung volumes, just are not sort of expelling as much air, and they’re not, you know, putting out as much virus.  It could be that they’re carrying the virus a little bit differently in their respiratory passages, and not transmitting it as easily for whatever reason. It does seem to be true that younger children are less sort of vectors of this disease than older children and adults. We do know that some children can get severely ill with this.  There’s again emerging data about a multi-system inflammatory syndrome for children who get this, that can cause sort of a vasculitis or inflammation in their blood vessels, with other damage that can occur.  

So it’s not that children are completely unaffected, it’s just we know the numbers are much smaller in terms of children getting serious disease.

2 mins, 45 secs in:

Media Question:  With the troubling increase in COVID-19 cases and your sensible pleas to limit travel and family and other gatherings, why has the county not acted to limit the number of tourists by ordering short-term vacation rentals closed for the duration? Because Humboldt seems relatively “safe,” people are flooding in from places that aren’t. Or are tourists not a significant source of infection in the county?

Answer by Dr. Frankovich: 

Well, there are a few questions embedded there. I would say a couple of things. One, is that obviously if you were going to limit tourism, it would mean not only closing short-term rentals it would mean hotels, it would mean campgrounds, it would mean a whole variety of things. So it’s a really broad impact to do so.  The other thing I would mention is that we have, when we look at a lot of the gatherings that we’re seeing in our cases and such, we’re not necessarily talking about people who are tourists per se, or even using local lodging and and such. They’re people who are coming to visit and stay with family, and that really has been a driver.  

We have not really had a significant number of cases related to people who were simply passing through our area.  At this time it’s certainly a reasonable concern, but we just have not been seeing that to date as significantly.  It’s also a logistical problem. You know, it is there, it’s very difficult obviously, short of closing down Hwy 101, to prevent people from coming in and through our county. And I’m not so sure that people are flooding here because it is safe, per se, as much as people come here because it’s a beautiful place and they want to visit Humboldt. And so I think that, you know, this is a time we normally see lots of tourists in our area, and this year is astoundingly to me, no different.  People still seem to be out and about even though we’ve asked them across the state to stay local…  So when we, again, when we look in our in our cases I would say right now we are not seeing tourists as a big driver of infection. We are however, concerned about importation of virus from other counties.  But to date it has been primarily through our residents traveling or bringing friends and family into the area.

5 mins 10 sec in:   

Media Question: You have talked a little bit about the different alert levels on the new dashboard in the past and for awhile we were staying at level 2 before increasing to level 3. What does this alert mean for residents? What should they be doing differently than when we were at a level 2? Can you also explain the difference in level 3 and 4?

Answer by  Dr. Frankovich: 

So, and I get that’s a brand new system that we’ve that we’ve put out there, and really what we’re trying to do is give people sort of an overall impression of where we are in this pandemic. And overall understanding, so when we looked at this, you know, green or or Level1, is really not much happening right, there’s just you know, some sporadic cases- really not a lot going on in terms of COVID, we believe risk is relatively low at that time- but all the prevention measures we still want in place.  That’s sort of our new normal where we use facial coverings and we do all those other things we’ve been talking about.

Level 2 really just says we’re starting to see a little bit more activity, you know, we really want to emphasize this importance.  And in 3 what we’re really saying is that we’re seeing some impacts of the virus transmission. We’re starting to see numbers that affect things like our case rate, that might impact us becoming members of the county monitoring list at the state level, that has economic impact. So we want people to understand that as the case counts rise, at a certain rate it starts to have the possibility of impacting our contact tracing.  That has implications for how well we’re able to go through this and eventually there may be a point at which we’re starting to see an impact on our health care sector.  This alert system is a way we can communicate that to the residents of the county, and I think what we’re really telling them as we go through, in terms of people’s behavior, is as we’re moving through this, all of these prevention measures are more important than ever because we really are starting to get in more uncertain territory in terms of increasing transmission.  So while we want people to be used to implementing these all along, we really want to just keep emphasizing that importance, and as we raise up… you know, heading into, like, levels… as we’re moving across these levels, into 3 and 4, again that messaging about us needing to pull back a little bit to not be as active outside our homes, is really important. 

At some point, it will trigger us moving back, just as you know, when we’re starting to move through some of these levels, even within Level 3 when we’re seeing it impact other sectors, or our numbers in that level get more substantial, we may be for instance on the county monitoring list and that will impact things like where our health workout/fitness facilities will have to be outdoors, our places of worship will have to be outdoors. So we will begin to see this, and we don’t want that to be a surprise to people. We want them to see that in this alert system- see the possibility that we’re moving towards that.

8 mins 10 sec in:  

Media Question: There have been 26 new cases confirmed in the 4 days reported (July 27-30) since the July 24 increase to alert Level 3.  What is the threshold to break to reach alert Level 4?

Answer by Dr. Frankovich: 

Well again, I think we mentioned previously that each of these, each of these little boxes on our alert level is impacted by multiple measurements. And so really what we have to see for us to move up, would be things changing. For instance, even though we’ve had an increase in case numbers our positivity rate is still- we’re at about 3.5% right now- and so and we were about 3.8% I think a couple days ago, and so we’re sort of sitting in that realm.  We haven’t been hopping up in that. That’s an indicator that might you know, help move us towards another level. And so we’re doing that across all of these sort of segments of our alert graphic for on the county, and you know, it’s just the changing landscape every day. We look at all of these multiple data points for each, and sort of have to, you know, make a decision about where we feel we are.

 9 mins 25 sec in:   

Media Question: Are there plans in the works to implement additional restrictions on top of the latest state mandate? And could we expect these restrictions to be implemented within the next two weeks?

Answer by  Dr. Frankovich:

So, I have not. In my calls with other state health officers and CHPD, I have not heard discussions about increasing the restrictions at this time. Certainly doesn’t mean that that discussion isn’t happening, I suppose in the governor’s office or elsewhere, but I’m just right now, this is not something I’m preparing for because i’m not hearing it talked about in that circle.

I think the big question for most counties right now for the relatively smaller number of us who are not on the county monitoring list, is really trying to do our best to not get there so that we don’t face those additional closures that we had just spoken about.

10 mins, 20 secs in:

Media Question:  You’ve talked about delays in testing results or making an appointment and how that impacts our total case count. Can you talk about how delays in testing impact contact tracing investigations? Does the delay in test results weaken the impact or overall goal of these investigations (i.e., contacting people too late and they’ve already gone out and about, they are no longer symptomatic or no longer need to isolate, etc.). 

Answer by Dr. Frankovich: 

Well yeah, and and we’ve sort of talked about this. It’s a huge issue. We, you know, it’s the reason that when we, at this point, we are encouraging people who have symptoms to see their provider for testing or contact public health if they don’t have a provider, because we want to test those folks as much as possible in our local lab so that we can get a very rapid turnaround time and act on it -because that’s key in our contact investigations.  The quicker we find people who are positive, the quicker we can isolate them, look at their contacts, quarantine those folks, and limit spread. So as we’re looking at trying to find a replacement for our Optum site, which although again, has been a benefit to us for a long time- because of long turnaround times is not operating as we need it to- as we look for replacement for that, one of the key factors is identifying laboratory capacity that can give us a turnaround time that’s more useful. I don’t expect when we have to transport specimens out of the area to be able to get turnaround times of 24 hours like we can in our own lab much of the time, but I’m looking for turnaround times that are much more like three days, as opposed to six to ten days, and that will be very useful in helping us go forward.

12 mins 15 sec in:   

Media Question:  How would you describe the level of cooperation you’re getting and the effectiveness of the county’s contact tracing efforts?

Answer by  Dr. Frankovich: 

I think our county’s contact tracing efforts have been amazing, frankly. I am in constant awe of our team, and the reason I say that, is because I, I honestly believe they see themselves as the wall that is keeping our community safer. They are working incredibly hard to identify all the contacts of cases, to really get to people quickly, and again, we do this seven days a week here. So our team has been working at this for quite a while.  I think that in general, most of the people that we’re working with are actually very cooperative.  They’re always going to be some people that are difficult to convince about the importance of this, and to get the information that we need to move forward easily, but I think the vast majority of people we’ve been working with have actually been great.

13 mins 15 sec in:   

Media Question: At what point would you urge local law enforcement to engage in a punitive approach to enforcing the masking ordinance for both businesses and individuals?

Answer by Dr. Frankovich: 

Well you know, first I just want to say that I honestly, I am really grateful and quite encouraged when I move about our community.  You know, I see the vast majority of people using facial coverings, and I think that is quite something and I think it speaks to the social contract we have with each other to try and keep each other safe.  And it is also a marker to me that people are recognizing, you know, the the importance of this pandemic and the possible implications, and are taking it seriously.  And I really appreciate that because I think in the end, it’s what’s going to help keep us all safer. 

I am not someone who is, you know, I would always prefer education over enforcement- and frankly, I would rather that, you know, people’s goodwill and feelings of responsibility for their friends and neighbors will convince them to do the right thing and so you know, that that’s the approach I would tend to want to take.  However, I will say that if people are going to, for instance, a place of business and employees are not masked, are not complying with the safety plans that they have made, then I encourage them to contact the EOC with that information, and I don’t recall the complaint line number up front, but I know the JIC can be reached through 441-5000. And so I do encourage people, I want them to feel safe when they’re visiting businesses, and I think that’s perfectly appropriate, and then we can move on that.

 

14 mins 50 sec in:  

Media Question:  How concerned are you that we will see an increased spike in cases, and have any of the recent positive cases come from students moving from out of town?

Answer by  Dr. Frankovich: 

So again, I understand people’s concern about this, and just as I’ve been getting lots of questions about, you know K-12 school, universities are another source of possible concern for people.  We are working intensively with HSU to craft safety plans, to look at how the university would function in the time of COVID, everything from how students are brought here, how many students are brought here, how that is phased in, where they are staying, what we will do if students are ill- so we really have been walking through safety plans with them so to, in order to minimize the impact on the community if school starts as planned. And so we will update as we go forward.

Community members with questions or concerns are encouraged to call 441-5000 for additional information.  

For the most recent state and national COVID-19 information, visit cdc.gov or cdph.ca.gov

Local information is available at the Humboldt County COVID-19 Data Dashboard: humboldtgov.org/dashboard, on Facebook @HumCoCOVID19, Instagram @HumCoCOVID19, Twitter @HumCoCOVID19, and Humboldt Health Alert humboldtgov.org/HumboldtHealthAlert

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135 comments

  • In a fifteen minute interview Dr. Frankovich injects the discourse particle “you know” seventeen times. My brother spent 30 years in law enforcement and conducted hundreds of suspect interviews. In his professional opinion when an individual uses “you know” repeatedly they’re gathering their thoughts for the next lie. Here’s what I’d like to “know” Dr. Frankovich:
    1. What were the ages of the four deceased patients?
    2. How many Covid patients have you treated?
    3. Are you aware a N95 surgical mask filters down to .300 microns and the size of a C-19 virus is .125 microns? Hell, I’ll do the math for you. The C-19 virus is 2.4 times smaller than the filter down efficiency of the N95 . Appears to me you’re recommending construction of a chain-link fence to keep the mosquitoes out.
    4. Remind me again, how many paychecks have you missed since this fiasco began?

    Have a lovely day

    • I was not aware of the mask thing, Divide. I’m going to do some research. And yes, she is not a great speaker, but oh well. The advice by the next poster, “smoke some weed…,” is the worst advice. Weed clouds your mind and is useless unless you’re in severe pain.

    • 1. 96, 97, 98, &101.
      2. Zero
      3. That is only for a perfectly fitted N95 mask. The mask also DOES not protect against a virus, only bacteria.
      4. I have never missed a paycheck, in fact I have been making lots of overtime, along with a couple hundred other hard working county employees.

      • Thank you James. So, the average age of the 4 people is 98. Our chances of making to 98 is remote. In Japan, the longest living people on the planet, 3.43 out of 10,000 will reach 98. Remember Dr. Francovich’s comment after the second death? I’m paraphrasing but this is close, “this demonstrates the severity of this virus”. Bullshit, they died of old age.

        • So I can put a couple bullets in your grandma’s head and call it death by old age?

          Neat trick.

          • And to really piss off 1911 with the point.

            I could then blame the grandmas thinning skull structure for allowing the bullets to enter the brain. Younger ones may have survived.

            Old age sucks, huh.

            This is the viewpoint put forward by many of you.

            Just take out the word “bullet”, and put in the “Covid”.

      • From what I could find, the first 2 deaths were both 97, and the fourth was 91. Couldn’t find anything on the third COVID-19 death.

        I thought I saw the Country dashboard showing one of the deaths as being under 49 but I could be mistaken, didn’t check closely.

        • At one point, Dr. Frankovich said something like they were all over 80.

          • In my 1911 I trust

            So you edit me for calling Brian out on being a complete asshole, but you don’t edit him for talking about murdering people’s grandma’s family, etc. He’s said shit about killing my mom on this site before, he crosses lines way too often. [edit] yet I get edited, and placed on moderation. If anyone should be banned at this point its him. He no longer participates in debates, old link boy doesn’t even provide links for anything anymore. He just bashes people and advocates violence, yet you almost let him drive the conversations in the threads. You ban people for posting stuff from sources you deem irrelevant yet you allow him to freely threaten and say fucked shit? Put your damn dog on a leash Kym. And don’t say you agree with his analogies, accidentally transmitting a disease is far different thing than showing up and murdering someone’s grandma. For fucks sake Kym don’t be so biased.

            • Black Rifles Matter

              Her site, her rules. America….. land of the free and home of the whiners

            • 1911, I don’t agree with Brian’s analogy but I also recognize it is an analogy. An analogy is not advocating for violence, in fact, in this case, Brian is attempting to use the analogy to show how screwed up he believes the position advocated by DividebyZero’s.

              You on the other hand who were off moderation just got right back on by threatening him. Next time, I’m banning you.

              NOTE: I don’t “ban people for posting stuff from sources [I] deem irrelevant.” I ban people from posting stuff that is outright harmful especially when that person also claims “that an inter-dimensional race of reptilian beings called the Archons (or Anunnaki) have hijacked the earth, and that a genetically modified human–Archon hybrid race of shape-shifting reptilians known as the Babylonian Brotherhood, the Illuminati, or the “elite”, manipulate global events to help keep humans in constant fear. Thus, the Archons can feed off the “negative energy” this creates.” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Icke)

              There are limits to my tolerance and you are pushing them.

            • If you don’t see my point, and you think I’m making threats, you are dense.

              Devide by Zero said that because someone is over x age, they don’t die from Covid, they die from age.

              That completely asshated analogy can thus be said for any x age death.

              • In my 1911 I trust

                I believe he is referring to the fact that many covid deaths are falsely reported. You could die from heart failure while you have covid and it will be reported as a covid death, which is false. You’re[edit] analogy is complete bullshit and you and Kym know it. His analogy of putting a bullet in grandma’s head is a bad analogy and is meant to just piss people off or incite violence. [edit–you are getting too graphic. I thought Brian was pushing it. You’ve passed that point] Last I checked a bullet to the brain is almost 100% fatal, whereas covid has less than a 1% fatality rate. Those are way different in terms of intent and lethality. I don’t see how I can be pushing your patience when brian doesn’t. Is it because we are on opposite sides of the coin? You are showing your bias completely, and thats fine, I know it, and you know it, if you ban me for calling you and other people out on bs and the fact that you are not even handed, thats fine. I will just know that you are unable to counter unequivocal truths and well thought out counter-arguments, and thats ok. You and I will know the truth Kym, that ya’ll can’t hang, you live in a land of feelings and emotions, not facts.

                • I won’t ban you for insulting me. I might ban you for insulting others but I absolutely will ban you for specifically threatening someone physically again.

                  • In my 1911 I trust

                    “I can put some bullets in your grandma’s head.”-Brian.

                    I and Your seem pretty damn threatening to me. He didn’t say someone could shoot your grandma. I believe he was referring to himself going and putting bullets in Divide’s grandma’s head. That seems pretty specific and violent, all in the name of proving a point of course. So please split the hairs and show me any shred of difference between my comment and his? Brian insults others more than anyone on this thread and uses threats of physical violence to prove his points. So where is the difference? Or is he just your attack dog that you allow to say the shit you want to but aren’t able to? I think many others see the bias in how you are choosing to edit these comments. You say you are banning people for spreading harmful misinformation, how come you aren’t banning someone who prevents any sort of mutual debate or exchange of information? He screams like a little kid and talks about dumbfucks and shooting grandma’s, how much more debased and immature can someone get? If someone is banned for talking about lizard people demon sex because it is obviously factually off-base and immature, how about people who constantly demeans people and uses their families as graphic examples to prove his points and completely derails any possibility of a real debate?

                    • He absolutely wasn’t threatening to do so. You missed the last part. “So I can put a couple bullets in your grandma’s head and call it death by old age?” And if you want to willfully ignore that so you can scream about Brian then that’s your issue but you possibly might consider that you have some biases of your own.

                • AGI.
                  PROP.

            • Yup.

    • Divide by zero,
      thanks

    • R David Franceschi

      Frankly, I won’t waste my time on her!!! She’s an Idiot and so are the people who hired her.

      • Baby Boomers Screwed America

        You get the government you vote for. Maybe stop sending local yocals that no nothing about the administration of governance and development of society and instead are more focused on on making themselves locally powerful to enrich themselves. Because the way it is right now between our elected officials patting themselves on their backs and a whole bunch of unqualified bureaucrats that continue to run the economy to the race to the bottom getting their paychecks on the taxpayers dime raising taxes while increasing policy requirements this place will continue to decline. So you get the government you deserve and you elected at the state and local level that only care about protecting baby boomers which is why they close the economy down on everybody else. Stop sending Democrats to office single-party politics do not work!

  • In response to the remark about the N95: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/06/11/fact-check-n-95-filters-not-too-large-stop-covid-19-particles/5343537002/

    In short, while the virus is indeed quite small, it isn’t out there floating in the air on its own. It is a passenger on a larger aerosol particle (>1 micron) emitted from an infected carrier.

    –that USA Today article was simply the first one that popped up in a quick search so it’s not like this isn’t widely known.

    • Hahaha usa today hahaha you people that google search your arguments are incredulous

      • Ok, prove it wrong.

      • Where do you get your information?

        • KGB, filtered.

          • Yes i am russian bot.. You are blind guy

            • Russians and bots can copy and paste links into comments, so I’d agree, you’re neither.

              You just like their news.

              • I dont read the russian news. I look at kym kemp to see whats goin on in my neighboods. Clearly you look at a lot of internet news tho.. And you come off as very arrogant.. Bet you wouldnt reveal who youvreally are.

                • I agree, I do read a lot of news.

                  • I’ve read your links. They are worse than propaganda. “Nazis were in no way shape or form socialists ever” that alone says enough about your level of insight.

                    • The Big Liebowski

                      37th place is our standing in the world for education.

                      27th in health care.

                      Mike drop:/

                    • Mike, unfortunately you think you’ve offered something to show differently.

                      But intelligent readers know otherwise.

                    • Look mike, new age socialists!

                      Fighting for Trump because they know Trump will finish what Hitler began, a socialist equality utopia.

                      Habahaha, oh man, ya sure!

                      Nazis are not socialists.

                      They are right wing racists, and strictly conservative, rooted in Nationalism.

                      The only socialist NAZIs were killed by Hitler in a purge.

                      Nevermind.

                      You’ve ignored all this just fine so far.

          • Democratic Party hack still obsessed with discredited conspiracy theories about Russia.

            • Yes, me and the Republican Senate Intelligence Committee are Democratic hacks.

              You so smart.

              • You seem to have forgotten the resounding debunking of Russiagate.

                • Really?

                  Someone debunked the Republican Senate inquiry resoundingly?

                  https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/Report_Volume2.pdf

                  Please, do link.

                  Thanks, I know you’ll come through with something credible that proves propaganda doesn’t exist.

                  I’ll wait patiently.

                  • “The investigation did not establish that the members of the Trump campaign coordinated or conspired with the Russian government in its election interference activities.”
                    -Robert Mueller

                    • No shit.

                      What does that have to do with my discussion.

                      You think Russian propaganda only exists if Trump is working for Russia?

                      [edit]

                      What did the Mueller investigation have to do with Senste inquiry:

                      Nothing.

                      Obfusca….nevermind.

                    • Thirdeye: “Democratic Party hack still obsessed with discredited conspiracy theories about Russia.” And “You seem to have forgotten the resounding debunking of Russiagate.”

                      TRB: “Really?”

                      Robert Mueller: “The investigation did not establish that the members of the Trump campaign coordinated or conspired with the Russian government in its election interference activities.”

                    • I believe Mueller said, ” insufficient evidence.” Which is just that…not a “resounding debunking of Russiagate.”

                      According to the NY Times, “John R. Bolton, the former national security adviser, says in his new book that the House in its impeachment inquiry should have investigated President Trump not just for pressuring Ukraine but for a variety of instances when he sought to use trade negotiations and criminal investigations to further his political interests.

                      Mr. Bolton describes several episodes where the president expressed a willingness to halt criminal investigations “to, in effect, give personal favors to dictators he liked,” citing cases involving major firms in China and Turkey. “The pattern looked like obstruction of justice as a way of life, which we couldn’t accept,” Mr. Bolton writes, saying that he reported his concerns to Attorney General William P. Barr.

                      Mr. Bolton also adds a striking new accusation by describing how Mr. Trump overtly linked tariff talks with China to his own political fortunes by asking President Xi Jinping to buy American agricultural products to help him win farm states in this year’s election. Mr. Trump, he writes, was “pleading with Xi to ensure he’d win.” Mr. Bolton said that Mr. Trump “stressed the importance of farmers, and increased Chinese purchases of soybeans and wheat in the electoral outcome.”” https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/17/us/politics/bolton-book-trump-impeached.html

                    • I just pulled a quote attributed to Mueller… it doesn’t mean he didn’t say or write both quotes attributed to him.

                      Bolton’s word has as much value against Trump as Trump’s word has value for himslef. Bolton, as a war hawk neocon, is a garbage human. I said it when he was director of PNAC, when he was ambassador to the UN under Bush Junior and as NSA under Trump.

                    • Why is Ullr quoting Mueller when I’m talking about the Senate’s findings into Rusdian meddling?

                      Wtf?

      • I didn’t search for a the answer, I already knew that. What I searched for was a link to a convenient third-party report that was written in a way folks could easily grasp so that you didn’t just take my word for it. If I hadn’t provided a link you would’ve criticized with a “prove it” comment.

      • Swine,
        excellent comment, thanks.

  • OK that’s it for this thread. You folks go out there and have a lovely day with a pamper diaper on your face. Remember your face, it’s the icon of your creation?

  • There is another issue: licenses vs. contracts. The medical cartel, backed by governments, has established medical boards which grant licenses to practice medicine. These special persons, doctors, are handed the right to treat and cure diseases. This is an attempt to create a monopoly.
    There is another avenue: private contracts. Here is the analogy I’ve used to describe this situation. Two adults, Joe and Fred, enter into an agreement. Joe says he has a health condition. He will be the patient. Fred will be the practitioner. Fred has a well on his property. Fred believes the water has a special healing quality. He will give some of it (or sell it) to Joe, who will drink it over the course of two weeks.
    Both men, in their contract, agree that no legal liability will be attached to the outcome. They are both responsible. They are of sound mind. They don’t require government permission to sign or fulfill their contract.
    That’s it in a nutshell.
    Joe and Fred are operating on their own. They have that natural right. They also have the right to be wrong—in case the water treatment doesn’t work, or is harmful.
    Of course, all sorts of meddlers will claim this arrangement is illegal and absurd. Meddlers always try to curb freedom. That’s their crusade in life. They can’t stand the idea of people making their own choices and decisions and then accepting the consequences.
    I’m not saying governments will honor such contracts. Governments are prime meddlers. I’m saying these contracts (and not just in the arena of healing) stand outside governments. They are citizen-to-citizen. They are prior to government. They are intrinsically more real than government.
    THIS is what COMMUNITY actually means.

  • Whatever you do buy the lies!!! Keep your slave masks on at all times (not like in the Netherlands where they refuse to mandate the phony mask order.) Obey and comply with your house arrest and wait for Bill Gates’s poison vaccine!!! Do not question authority, Keep 6 feet apart so you can be tracked and remember this is not politically motivated it is for the health and safety of the public. The muzzle requirement was only temporary and voluntary until it wasn’t. The same with the vaccine. If they get their way we will be made into genetically modified organisms. Wake up and stand up America before it’s too late!!!

    • There never was a Bill Gates, that’s a conspuracee too!

      We didn’t land on the moon, because there ain’t nun moon!

      Computers were never invented, what you are reading is a figment of the illuminati matrix globe dimmer industrial complex.

      Wakes ups!

      • My brother-in-law sincerely believes that the stars and moon aren’t in space (which doesn’t exist to him) but just something god put up to….I’m not sure what. Of course the moon landings were fake, because the moon is just an illusion. He is also an anti-masker because COVID is a hoax.

        But it’s real to him, dammit! Or maybe it NOT real to him. I try to avoid most conversations with him for the sake of the family.

        • Dang, that’s a bummer Angela.

          Hope things get better for him, it really is mentally unhealthy to live outside of reality.

  • Theft of Freedom Masks Kill

    And America, too, is a delusion, the grandest one of all. The white race believes–believes with all its heart–that it is their right to take the land. To kill Indians. Make war. Enslave their brothers. This nation shouldn’t exist, if there is any justice in the world, for its foundations are murder, theft, and cruelty. Yet here we are

    • Democrats claim DACA kids shouldn’t be responsible for their parents crimes….

      But White people are responsible for 17th century slave owners ??

      • Angela Robinson

        19th century slave owners. Jim Crow laws. Red-lining. Voting suppression to the point of murders (in my life time).

        Unless you (the general you) have worked to end these and other racist practices, then…yeah, “you” might be a little responsible.

        It didn’t become roses and champagne for Black Americans in 1865 (or later, if they were in Texas).

        • Have you ever asked POC if given a free ticket and 25K to start a new life, would they go back to the country of their ancestors?

          Just a little research on current conditions and I suspect most would say no thanks.

          You can’t work to change another persons heart, to stop racism you have to actually love people, you can’t force love, you teach it by example.

          To Bad democrats do not believe in personal responsibility.
          Being a little responsible might be a good idea in current events instead of working on centuries gone by.

          Most of my ancestors were SC cotton pickers ( you know trailer trash) so sorry, I don’t have any responsibility for 17th 18th century slave ownership. Another part was Cherokee.

          So when you (collectively) start dictating who is responsible for what, I call BS and claim personal Histories are a complicated subject..

          Most people do not know what their spouse, child, or brother in law thinks let alone what really happened centuries ago, history is an opinion of the person writing or telling it.

        • Where are Jim Crow laws, violent vote suppression, and red-lining happening today? You can shadow-box with past ills all you want, but it is essentially irrelevant to current reality.

          BTW, redlining was a driver of black migration to inner city neighborhoods, not vice-versa. Less-leveraged property was more affordable. The main beneficiaries from removing redlining have been speculators and gentrifiers, who displace lower income residents.

          If you want to contend that lending standards are racist, keep in mind that lower lending standards leading to the subprime bubble didn’t have such a great result for minority borrowers. Greater access to loans doesn’t count for much without greater access to income.

    • Which countries didn’t have….murder, theft, and cruelty in their history??
      I really want to know!

      • That makes it OK for me?

        • No, it’s not OK.
          But why tear down this country and to what end?
          And if you’re going to tear down this country why not all countries?
          And again to what benefit ??

          It’s so easy to tear things up and so hard to build things up.
          Create not destroy!!

          • That is exactly what I am doing. A more just country is a better country. Repairing the things of the past is a fine part of any good life. I honor the constitution that is 230 years old. I venerate forests for being older than that. I try to follow the teachings of a Hebrew Peace Prophet which are considerably older than that.
            I pick up my dirty socks from yesterday. I listen to music from before I was born. I study science with foundations older than this country. I find no disrespect in correcting the errors of previous generations and honoring the work of those who were not rewarded in their lifetimes by doing something to repay their descendants.
            My dad did some bad things in his lifetime as did my grandparents and some of their ancestors. I am happy with the work of using the privileges I got from them to repair the damage that was done before me, in my name. I think we can do better and I intend to pass that on.
            That IS American.

            • I mostly agree with you b…

              Repairing is honorable, destruction is not.

              I won’t stand with people destroying things and pretending it’s for good.

              Especially when you have 20 POC with real grievances per 100 white college propagandized, self hating (edit) turning cities into a collage that looks like a bad acid trip. Burning building has never worked for good.

    • Forget about the fact that native American tribes, Africans,and Middle Eastern people were all enslaving each other long before white Europeans ever landed in America!

      • America did not invent slavery, but it was very late to outlaw it, and the effort created a civil war with many Southerners still waiting for a “revolution” today (Tucker).

        The Roman Empire created such epic slavery conditions, 1 out of 3 Italians at the time were slaves.

        In perusing the FreeTheSlaves website, the first fact that emerges is it was nearly 9,000 years ago that slavery first appeared, in Mesopotamia (6800 B.C.). Enemies captured in war were commonly kept by the conquering country as slaves.

        And in the 1700s B.C., the Egyptian pharaohs enslaved the Israelites, as is discussed in Exodus Chapter 21. Later, the pagan Greeks participated in slavery, for ancient Sparta as well as Athens relied fully on the slave labor of captives.

        ……..

        By the year 1000 A.D., slavery had become common in England’s rural, agricultural economy, with the poor yoking themselves to their landowners through a form of debt bondage. At about the same time,  the number of slaves captured in Germany grew so large that their nationality became the generic term for “slaves”—Slavs.

        As for the Atlantic slave trade, this began in 1444 A.D., when Portuguese traders brought the first large number of slaves from Africa to Europe. Eighty-two years later (1526), Spanish explorers brought the first African slaves to settlements in what would become the United States—a fact the Times gets wrong. The Times likewise fails to mention that the Native American Cherokee Nation also held African slaves, and even sided with the Confederacy during the Civil War.

        But the antipathy of many Americans toward slavery became evident as early as 1775, when Quakers in Pennsylvania set up the first abolitionist society.

        https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomlindsay/2019/08/30/after-all-didnt-america-invent-slavery/#7889709d7ef6

        Or
        https://www.freetheslaves.net/about-slavery/slavery-in-history/

        • Well how dare America not have fixed in 200 years what’s gone on since 6800 BC.

          Actually I’m more with MLK, fix the financial inequality. The color problem is green.

          We are all slaves to the Corporations. Condoned by the politicians that are paid for their agreement.

          Even if you work for yourself you are still taxed, fined and fee
          ed to death.

          • Taxes areally for the peasants.

          • Actually I’m more with MLK, fix the financial inequality. 

            Careful, you’re heading towards being labeled socialist or Democratic tyrant, aka socialist, by even yourself…

            • Brian

              Not at all,
              Agreeing with fair wages isn’t agreeing with a nanny state that robs you of everything you have while promising a utopia that ends up like Venezuela.

              It’s Similar to what Gavin promised pot growers as compared to what actually happened, only on a much larger scale.

              Would you like to explain why NY, Portland, Washington DC, Seattle, Chicago and most Dem run cities are all bastions of violence and murder? Talk about a pandemic!

              • This is rather funny,because it is on this very site that I read about how violent the Emerald Triangle is.

                Which I won’t deny, it’s one of the reasons I left Humboldt decades ago. Because of the violence. Didn’t intend to stay away, though, that was accidental. Right before I moved to Kodiak, AK the guys were warning me just how tough that town is. I got there and said to one of them “Sh*t, you guys have never been to Eureka!”.

                Also, I see that the Portland and Seattle are on Fire!!! framing has worked on some. Fox News had a headline about a shooting in Portland this past day. Implying that a shooting 5 miles away was connected to the protests downtown. To be fair, they did bury the lede that there was no way of knowing if it was connected to the protests….LOL. It wasn’t.

              • Umbrella man is a white supremacist, fyi.

                • Portland has had serious issues with white supremacists for decades….murders.

                  The neo-nazi, aryan, whatever have this fantasy of creating a white homeland in the PNW.

                  Long before “antifa” ever existed.

                  • Oh so first it wasn’t happening and now it’s the right doing it? Since you think the The neo-nazi, aryan, whatever are repubs wouldn’t they want there homeland in the south?
                    And they wouldn’t be inclined to burn Bibles or pig heads from what I’ve read and heard about them.

                    So,You can pretend if you want .

                    • Actually, no. Oregon decided to solve the slavery problem early in its history by simply excluding Black people. That way controversy over slavery would turn into a unifying principle. Then, after the civil war, it was a haven for Southern civil war veterans for the same reasons. By mid-20th century it was full of towns with sundown laws and most towns practiced outright discrimination and segregation. Public accommodation discrimination was so extreme that Dave Brubeck ( Take Five- his band’s most famous piece) refused to ever visit Eugene again when one of his band mates was refused a stay in a Eugene Hotel in extremely rude fashion. This was common all over the state into the 70’s and I know that Grants Pass sundown laws were enforced as late a 1975. Deeds to houses in Eugene, Albany, Salem and elsewhere in the state still have racial exclusion clauses that are “unenforceable” but there none the less. These clauses are so offensive that I couldn’t stomach buying an ownership document even though I wanted to buy a house.
                      I lived in Oregon for 15 years in both urban and rural environments and found the phony liberal diversity of the cities almost as offensive as the openly bigoted prattle of the country side. Skinheads and wannabe Nazis all over the place. I have a family member who fancies himself a racial “purist” and white supremacist.
                      Oh and the genocide of Native people seems to have been more efficient in Oregon although I’ve never met a “proud pioneer descendant” there who had any information of her ancestors’ participation in the slaughter. One gloriously liberal young woman said, “Oh no, I think they were all dead about five years before my great-grandparents arrived. They would never have participated in anything like that.”
                      I love Oregon and the people are largely hospitable to me, a white man. And the vocal committed racists get a lot of blow back. But the “vibe” is not so cool as you might think.

                • Brian,
                  Yep, all you have to do is look back at Bidens comments over the years … it’s amazing how many racist comments he’s made …I don’t blame you for hiding him.

                  Love the phony drawl the dems all get while in the south too, instant preachers…lol

                  Dem utopia is as real as the southern accent.

        • The United States was the fourth country to outlaw slavery and outlawed it 89 years after gaining our independence from Great Britain.
          China, Democratic Republic of the Congo, India, Indonesia, Iran, Nigeria, North Korea, Pakistan, the Philippines and Russia all still practice slavery today… With Morocco, Algiers, Tripoli and Cair still sporting open market slave auctions…

          • Did any of the countries you mention (and why is the US always compared to third world countries?) have a founding document that said:

            “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights”

            And yes, it was finally outlawed, after over 600, 000 people died in the Civil War.

            • And many in the South still hold heart to their “heritage”.

              Blacks were allowed to use white restrooms when?

              • (sarcasm font turned on)
                Excuse me Brian, but the Civil War was not about slavery. It was about States Rights and freedom from tyranny (for some of the people of the South).
                In truth, I believe that we are still suffering from the trauma of that war. The healing was never done. Not for the conscripted farm boys from Indiana. Not for the families of the mass dead from both sides. Not from the dehumanization (hidden by wealth and then laid raw by defeat and the loss of that wealth) of the slave owners and slavery supporting white citizens of the south. Not for the horrific legacy of slavery for black communities. Not for the wealthy northern families who took their wealth from the slave and cotton trade but tried to clear their consciences by sending their neighbors’ sons and some of their own into a nightmare of slaughter. Not for all of the citizens (black and white) of the south who saw so much of their work and communities laid waste, by Sherman’s army, by the sieges and blockades.
                I believe that if you don’t heal trauma you are compelled to repeat it, often in ways that you don’t recognize. Seems to me that we’ve been replaying the Civil War my entire lifetime. It seems that we all suffer but that black people are handed the greatest part of the loss, repeatedly.

        • In my 1911 I trust

          America was the first country to outlaw slavery in the Atlantic. It was very late to begin the slave trade because the country didn’t exist until 1776 and then slavery was abolished on January 31st, 1865. The slave trade had less than a 100 year run in the United States. Kind of silly to compare this country to all the other ones who had been participating in slavery for thousands of years. Unless you count the Native Americans who were hear before the country the United States of America, the tribes had been enslaving each other for just as long as anybody else, but I digress, what I am saying is, in terms of slavery, especially on a world stage, our hands are much cleaner than everyone else.

          • You can’t have good without evil.

            Lots of ignorant people who were raised with good intentions who think that all men were createdoing equal.

            Just ask the billionaire boys club about those tax exempt foundations and how to steer society into a neo feudal system.

            So many useless eaters, are feeding on crap food, fluoridated water, with a insane vaccine schedule.

            Look at what passes for the dialectic these days.

            If it hadn’t been done in other countries, you’d might be forgiven for not understanding not paying attention.

            Trump is the perfect example of people being fed up with the Bush /Clinton option.

        • If you want to claim that the USA was “late” in abolishing slavery, please tell us where the practice was abolished earlier, if at all. Brazil? No. The Ottoman Empire? No, it was abolished only after WWI. China? No, since it was revived under the Q’ing Dynasty after the Ming abolished it. The Philippines? No, it was abolished after the Spanish-American war. Sub-Saharan Africa? No, in fact tribal rivals are still enslaving each other just like they did before they started trading slaves to Arabs and Europeans. The British abolition of slavery was an outlier, and it preceded American abolition by only a few decades in the sugar islands.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWrfjUzYvPo

    • Baby Boomers Screwed America

      Found the racist! The level of ignorance with this one is astronomical. Never learn of human migrations, that humans are tribalistic, that humans are genocidal animals, and that humans wage war for conquest and resources. Nothing’s changed since we evolved from the same race of chimpanzees. Only rule of nature is adapt or die, those other societies failed to adapt in the face of human migrations, and unfortunately they went away because most humans believe might makes right. But until people like you stop looking at the color of people’s skin and instead judge by their character then we will never get rid of racism or it’s instigators like you. But much like the conquistadors you failed to understand that forcing people to believe as you do is in fact mental genocide because you think you’re right so it’s ok to use might and violence against others that don’t think like you. That is the pattern of racism and genocide, dehumanize, and then violence.

  • Frankfurters And Mustard

    WEAR YOUR MASK TO SAVE YOUR ASS LOL
    Have a lovely day with a pamper diaper on your face.Enjoy breathing your exhaled air all day. Real healthy. [edit]

    • Do you have any idea how juvenile you sound? It’s because of people like you that the US is surging in cases of Covid. It’s because of people like you that the pandemic is being spread everywhere. We could be on a downward trend, but no, people like you are determined to drag this out because you’re a snowflake about a piece of cloth. Thanks . You’re no patriot, make no mistake.

    • No need to wear a mask outside! Go outside. Consider your time in shared air space another opportunity to refine your skills in cultural accommodation.
      No harm done by appearing naked in public except the feelings of people you don’t know and probably don’t like. They are either communists or fascists, otherwise why would they be complying with arbitrary social rules?
      But somehow even a committed nudist like me can manage to keep my clothes on, except when I think no one is looking.

    • Frankfurter,
      thanks.

  • Stand for Freedom and refuse to wear a mask everytime. USA!!

  • Freedom? Thats a fucking joke. Basically a bunch of idiots justifying ignorance. Selfishness is another trait. Stopped spending money locally. Buying online and in bulk. Have no interest in spending any money in a community where there is a high probability of getting Corvid19.

    There is no community anymore just a bunch of drug dealers with anal retentive & control issues. Thank our Supervisors.

    • Some people disagree with something you think is true (my guess from the evidence I have seen is that it is, but that shared, conditioned air is the big contributor to transmission). That doesn’t make those who disagree with you selfish or idiots. Go outside where there is somewhere between 36 and 1000 times less likelihood of transmission. Keep your mask on to reduce that by another factor of 5 or 10 if you want. But then stop looking at every one else’s decision as an affront.
      By staying outside and not having a conversation of more than 5 minutes your chance of transmission either way is near zero. You don’t like those people anyway, especially if they are not wearing a mask.

  • Currently, medical error is the third leading cause of death in the US. Rockefeller’s weapon to success was the strategy known as, “problem-reaction-solution.” Create a problem, escalate fear, then offer a pre planned solution. Sound familiar?

    “Those who are capable of tyranny are capable of perjury to sustain it.” – Lysander Spooner

    Using this preferred medicine paradigm, the fledgling pharmaceutical industry, took advantage of the millions of American Army recruits called up for war in 1917 to test up to 25 vaccines designed to cause a mild case of the disease they were supposed to prevent-the problem being that it was impossible to predict whether the case would be mild, severe, or fatal-as some prove to be instantly.

    Many of the vaccines brought about unrelated diseases, such as the smallpox vaccine causing syphilis, paralysis, leprosy, and cancer.

    https://www.cdc.gov/tuskegee/timeline.htm
    Tuskegee Study – Timeline – CDC – NCHHSTP
    Anonymous View

    In 1932, the Public Health Service, working with the Tuskegee Institute, began a study to record the natural history of syphilis in hopes of justifying treatment …

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sea-Spray
    Operation Sea-Spray – Wikipedia

    Operation Sea-Spray was a 1950 U.S. Navy secret experiment in which Serratia marcescens and Bacillus globigii bacteria were sprayed over the San Francisco …

    naw…they wouldn’t lie to you…it’s all just conspiracies, what’s in those chemtrails again??

    • Yeah it’s all fake. All the dead Drs, Nurses, Frontline Responders is conjured up. Just keep making analogies with unrelated information. Your logic is screwed!

      Fact: The virus likely came from a wet market in China. China manipulated the truth to their advantage. Trump fucked up by ignoring the experts and our own intelligence professionals. Trump also fucked the U. S. All Americans!! by manipulating the gravity of the situation. Inpededing the ability of individual States to purchase the necessary medical supplies needed to protect the medical workers.
      ICU beds are increasingly difficult to be available for those who need them. Have family who are medical professionals working on the East Coast. Its frightening and very frustrating for them.

      Have famly members who have died!! So honestly getting fucking tired of stupid conspiracy theories. Take the time to study Microbiology instead of going off on a tanget!!

      • Well said. The Greatest Generation sacrificed everything to save the world during WW2. Now as a society, we are so petty we are willing to sacrifice them because they are old and no longer seen as valued? We can’t even be bothered to do something as small as wear a mask?
        Pretty. Damn. Sad.
        Murica!!! We’re #1!!! USA! USA! USA!

      • Apathy and ignorance.

        Wonder why women and minorities had such a hard time breaking through the years of indoctrination.

  • Threads sure go quite when I start posting facts.

  • This population has a cowardice so deep they are willing to accept the destruction of all for a little promise of security.

    Parts of Australia shutting down to the point where no one can travel further than 5 km from their home. For 6 weeks!!! (They can increase as they please)

    https://youtu.be/h-LAR49Fbwc

    Have some courage people. Disease that kills, especially those that are older or already compromised is nothing new. Please take heart and face the reality that governments and corporations seek control and power, not the well-being of you and yours. None of us have seen the depths of depravity awaiting us if we continue on this course. Those who seek to control others hate themselves and therefore can never act in a moral manner because their true religion is self-preservation. We must love and seek freedom for our neighbors as well as ourselves. Screw the left and the right, they are legs of the same monster moving us toward the same goals. Control and world domination is not fantasy, look at how multinationals act, globalist agendas. It is all out in the open. We are in the last days of the republic.

    Much love and respect to those who have eyes and choose to see, ears and choose to hear. I am by no means perfect and I don’t expect any of you are either.

  • Never…

    This population has a cowardice so deep they are willing to accept the destruction of all for a little promise of security.

    Even then the security never comes, there is no such thing as security.

  • So whats the deal with HSU?
    If they even open it up, I will be yawning like a parakeet in a stir fry.
    We can really get safe and ban tourists!
    set up checkpoints at all county line roads!
    I was on 199 today, performing essential buisiness, and there were all sorts of sandwich nibblers driving RVs, dragging travel trailers, looking stupid and adventurous when the world is literally melting down on our smartphones!
    I could feel the tension at the grocery store, and it’s a Sunday!
    The maskers, the anti maskers.
    We could fix this bug real quick by smashing the internet.
    That would fix what has become the REAL global pandemic!
    What would Edward Abbey do?

  • I think it would be nice if H.S.U. opens. That’s my personal opinion.
    Thanks.

  • Deaths began plummeting pretty much everywhere, so the fearporn narrative shifted to case count

    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm

    This COULD NOT BE CLEARER. This is from the CDC! Are you willing to accept what is right in front of your eyes?????

    Here’s a question why did the deaths skyrocket AFTER lockdowns began? Can anyone answer that?

    • This information seems to agree with your graph.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vS5Gfbu0lWQ

    • Hard to set down the bottle when you are in full blown denial mode.

      I’ve seen good people make stupid DECISIONs, because of addiction and lack of discipline.

      Many are gone, and it’s a great example of how you can’t make this world safe enough for destructive minded constitution’s

      Some people have short lives filled with it all, and others just seem keen to drag it out and make everyone around them miserable.

      The truth is so red hot, not many people are equipped with the stomach or the mindset to handle it.

      Domesticated beef.

      It’s what’s for dinner

      • Censorship SUCKS…

        But its OK when you got something to hide

      • Please tell me the next post in that twitter feed is named compassionate sadist, because those names so far are hilarious!

        But what is the ethical guy saying;

        That the CDC is inflating Covid death numbers?

        • Can you look past user names? Look at the data. The graphs are clear and color coded. Can you answer why the deaths skyrocketed after the lockdown? Covid death numbers are in fact Inflated for many reasons yet that is not the issue at hand. The data in question shows clear as day that deaths have plummeted for weeks now. What value can you take from such a fact? That your neighbors are dumb for pointing it out? Please, this is bigger than your partisanship.

          To answer your question here’s how they are inflated in their own words no less

          https://youtu.be/qp0afdBUzis. Director of Illinois department of public health

          https://youtu.be/mNSnHX9bF2g Senator Dr Scott jensen

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