Re-raid of a Property Yields Over 46,000 Plants the Second Time Plus a List of Marijuana Enforcement Actions in Humboldt County in 2020

Clones in greenhouse on Thomas Road in Salmon Creek

This greenhouse off Thomas Road in the Salmon Creek watershed was refilled with clones after having been raided a month prior. [Photo provided by the Department of Fish and Wildlife]

To get sense of what is happening in the tug of war between cannabis growers and law enforcement, we’ve put together a list of the known marijuana enforcement actions in Humboldt County so far this year.

We’re going to start off with a report of a raid led by the California Department of Fish and Wildlife on a relatively large grow in the Thomas Road area of Salmon Creek that had been served a search warrant by Humboldt County’s Marijuana Eradication Team just six weeks earlier on May 15. On the same day,  DFW also served a warrant on Fruitland Ridge and one in Redcrest.

According to Janice Mackey, Information Officer for the California Department of Fish and Wildlife, “During the week of June 29 [we know the date was June 30], the California Department of Fish and Wildlife, assisted by the Humboldt County Sheriff’s Office and the California Department of Food and Agriculture, served three search warrants in Humboldt County. The parcels were located at Thomas Road in Miranda, Johnson Lane in Redcrest and Kelsey Lane in Myers Flat.”

The Thomas Road parcel we know was in the permit process with the County. We are unsure of the other parcels. According to Mackey, “A records check confirmed that none of the parcels were licensed by the state for commercial cannabis cultivation.”

On May 18, the MET team said they found over 14,000 plants at the Thomas Road parcel* and over 1,990 pounds of processed cannabis.

wall of weed marijuana totes

A wall of weed contained in the ubiquitous black and yellow tuppies was found during the May 18 raid on the Thomas Road piece, according to MET. [Photo from the HCSO MET team]

Undeterred by the MET raid in May, the optimistic folks on the Thomas Road property rushed to replant. When the Department of Fish and Wildlife arrived at the property on June 30, they say they discovered an estimated 46,791 illegal marijuana plants.

The  DFW says they located around 3200 plants total on both the parcels in Redcrest and Myers Flat.

Though DFW would only speak in general terms about the three parcels, we believe around ten suspects were detained on the Thomas Road property but then released. However, it is possible that some of those were located on the other two properties.

Mackey says, “Criminal charges will be filed with the Humboldt County District Attorney’s Office for consideration….Criminal charges are pending and these are ongoing investigations.”

Below are all the rest of the enforcement actions we know of with brief summaries and links to more complete stories if we have them.

Known Humboldt County Marijuana Enforcement Actions So Far in 2020:

  1. On Monday, April 27: Marijuana Enforcement Team (MET) Served Search Warrant in the Mattole Road Area
  2. On Wednesday, April 29: Indoor Grow Raided Today
  3. On Thursday, April 30: Marijuana Enforcement Team Served Search Warrant in Garberville Yesterday
  4. On Friday, May 8:  878 Plants Eradicated in Redway Bust
  5. On Monday, May 11Over 17,000 Plants Eradicated at Miranda Property Today, Says Sheriff’s Office
  6. On Tuesday, May 12: There wasn’t a press release but our request, Karges was able to gather some details for us. She told us,

    …[D]eputies with the Humboldt County Sheriff’s Office Marijuana Enforcement Team (MET) served two search warrants to investigate illegal cannabis cultivation in the Cathy’s Peak area of Honeydew. The California Department of Fish and Wildlife assisted in the service of the warrant.

    Two parcels were investigated during the service of the warrants. The parcels did not possess the required county permit and state license to cultivate cannabis commercially.

    During the service of the warrants, deputies eradicated approximately 2,000 growing cannabis plants.

    Additional violations with civil fines are expected to be filed by the assisting agencies.

    No arrests were made during the service of the warrant. The case will be forwarded to the DA’s Office for review.

  7. On Wednesday, May 13: Citizens’ Complaints Lead to Marijuana Bust on Wilder Ridge, Says Humboldt County Sheriff’s Office 
  8. On May 14, Karges said a search warrant was served in the Dinsmore area. At this point we haven’t received information on what MET discovered. We will request information again.
  9. On Friday, May 15: Over 14,000 Plants and Nearly 2000 Pounds of Marijuana Found at Salmon Creek Grow, Says HCSO MET Team 
  10. On May 20, Karges confirmed that there were search warrants served in Southern Humboldt but she hadn’t been able to gather details at the time we requested information. We have reports that at least one warrant was served in the Weott area. We will request information again.
  11. On May 26, MET went to a Large Indoor Grow in the Weitchpec area–18,690 Plants and 818 Pounds.
  12. On May 27, MET Served three search warrants on parcels without any permits in the Dinsmore area.
  13. On May 29, MET eradicated approximately 58,395 growing cannabis plants on a Blocksburg property without any permits.
  14. On June 3, MET eradicated about 353 plants as well as 62 grams of meth and prescription pills packaged for sales. The grow–in the area of Tobacco Road, Petrolia–did not possess any permits. One woman was cited and released. One person fled.
  15. On June 4, MET served four search warrants in the Alderpoint/Rancho Sequoia area. Deputies eradicated approximately 10,299 growing cannabis plants and confiscated a ghost gun.
  16. On June 5, we had a report of a convoy in SoHum but no further information. We will request information again.
  17. On June 17, MET served two search warrants in the Blocksburg area. “One parcel did not possess the required county permit and state license to cultivate cannabis commercially. The second parcel did not possess the required state license to cultivate cannabis commercially.” One person was cited. In addition, one trespass grow was eradicated.
  18. On June 22, a law enforcement convoy went to Fruitland Ridge and to Eel Rock Road. We will request information again.
  19. On June 24, MET “served two search warrants to investigate illegal cannabis cultivation in the Mad River drainage area of Dinsmore…[D]eputies eradicated approximately 10,735 growing cannabis plants.”
  20. On June 25, MET served two search warrants in the Mattole River drainage area of Honeydew. “One parcel possessed the required county permit but did not possess a state license to cultivate cannabis commercially. The other parcel investigated did not possess the required county permit and state license to cultivate cannabis commercially…[D]eputies eradicated approximately 7,930 growing cannabis plants.”
  21. On June 30, a convoy went to Holmes Flat in Redcrest, then to Fruitland Ridge in the Kelsey Lane area, and returned to a Salmon Creek watershed property. See lead story above.
  22. On July 14, MET served one search warrant at a parcel without any permits in the Shively area and eradicated approximately 2,600 growing cannabis plants. Also, “MET deputies served one search warrant at a parcel in the Honeydew area. The parcel did not possess the required state license to cultivate cannabis commercially. “[D]deputies eradicated approximately 6,900 growing cannabis plants.”
  23. On July 15, MET served a search warrant at a Briceland farm that had a County permit but not a state permit and “eradicated approximately 2,000 growing cannabis plants….MET deputies also visited an additional cannabis cultivation operation in Briceland. Upon contact with the parcel owner, deputies learned the parcel had just received its state license and verified that it was in compliance with current state and local orders.”

(*Note: This property is near the home of this reporter)

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Local
Guest
Local
3 years ago

Got what they deserved.

Local farmer
Guest
Local farmer
3 years ago
Reply to  Local

Dang! There’s at least $15 into each of those plants…. and that’s a lowball estimate. 15×46,000= almost 3/4of a million bucks…. chipped🙄

Shock
Guest
Shock
3 years ago
Reply to  Local farmer

Do you know how many local funds we could have if enforcement didn’t just burn that and rate them for dough? Enough to have nice things is what. They keep taking down millions of dollars worth of business apparatus every year, not even repurposing it, heck, endanger the grower and have them pay triple taxes until they’re caught up on fines but don’t slash the counties export.

Humboldt County Line
Guest
Humboldt County Line
3 years ago
Reply to  Shock

Yeah, you’d think with the insane epidemic of residential burglaries in both the incorporated and unincorporated parts of Eureka in the last month maybe they could burn a time out on cannabis enforcement and try to stop the insane amount of serious crime. At least it sounds like we re gonna get a sales tax hike! Fucking amazing!!

forest giant
Guest
forest giant
3 years ago

Humboldt County Line,

There is no money in regular law enforcement of crimes against people so enforcement authorities resort to the easy pickings. Imagine all the assets and cash that gets seized. They (Cal Fire, Sheriff, Forest Service, Fish and Wildlife, CHP, Hazardous Waste, Code Enforcement etc… have a lot of 80k/year pensions to shore up and fund properly and this is the easiest way to balance their bloated budgets.

Humboldt County Line
Guest
Humboldt County Line
3 years ago
Reply to  forest giant

I appreciate the economics involved and understand cannabis farmers are effectively ‘low hanging fruit’. However, as more and more normal tax payers flee California and Humboldt county the short sightedness of this tactic is going to become apparent.

Muhummad Basura Bin Turken
Guest
Muhummad Basura Bin Turken
3 years ago
Reply to  Shock

Not all weed is grown by good people not all weed is grown by bad people. Seems the politics of the whole deal go back decades. Probably more than a few targeted by insane sadistic people.

triniboldticino
Guest
triniboldticino
3 years ago
Reply to  Local

I certainly hope you get what you deserve, whatever that is. “Permits in process” but not done for many of these farmers. Many of these people are hard working trying to eke out an existence. Few get “rich” at it. Wishing ill of others, except in your case, is pretty evil.

J
Guest
J
3 years ago

Its still so weird what they count as legal and illegal gardens. Jason POS publicly does so many illegal/unethical things and gets a permit. He’s still bragging about being above the law, his farms Insta is all about not practicing social distancing or wearing mask at work. Get your shit together and don’t give permits to kind of growers that steal, pollute and ruin the industry while charging $10,000+ for a permit to a small mom and pop ethical farm of 40+ years. The cops are accelerating the degrade of the industry and increasing the likleyhood that only the unethical, greed fueled idiots can survive living in Humboldt.

Jealous much?
Guest
Jealous much?
3 years ago
Reply to  J

Who pissed in your wheaties? Lol if you don’t like him but still watch everything he does consider yourself a fan!

Yeah,sure
Guest
Yeah,sure
3 years ago
Reply to  Jealous much?

Bullshit. If he’s a bad actor he should be scrutinized.
I just love when people play the “you’re jealous ” card. Weak sauce.

Baby Boomers Screwed America
Guest
Baby Boomers Screwed America
3 years ago
Reply to  J

Jason is a small timer that can’t handle operations a business and has a small piddly grow who can’t compete against a real farm. Eventually it’ll all catch up with him and won’t be able to continue operating. Just the OSHA and CDFA agricultural employer requirements alone are a liability he’ll never meet on inspection which will cost him not only his licenses, but also permits, banned from participation within the legal industry, and swimming in fines plus court fees. If Mom and Pop wanted to compete with their small farms in a state industry maybe they should have buried their money for later instead of took less trips to Mexico and bought less growdozers; but it’s just wishful thinking they can compete with larger farms operating as an agricultural business anyways. Either way in the case of Jason or Mom and Pop in the future of legal cannabis neither can compete and will eventually be out of business. That’s just the history of America and capitalism those that failed to learn are doomed to repeat the cycle of boom and bust.

Entering a World of Pain
Guest
Entering a World of Pain
3 years ago

Haha. Good one dude!

Paul
Guest
Paul
3 years ago
Reply to  J

Growing weed for 40 yrs, paying no taxes, l would say that you are an above the law prima donna bad actor and be prosecuted

Dog
Guest
Dog
3 years ago

Just for transparency, Kym, are you a grower?

Willie Bray
Guest
3 years ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

🕯🌳You’ve always been upfront and honest. 🖖🇺🇸

Gazoo
Guest
Gazoo
3 years ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

#Baller
We love you miss Kym! 💖

Black Rifles Matter
Guest
Black Rifles Matter
3 years ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

🙂 that made my morning right there. Thank you for the chuckle.

Black Rifles Matter
Guest
Black Rifles Matter
3 years ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

👍🏻 That’s a real truck Right there. I know all about the busted back window from firewood rounds. You would think I would have learned the first time, but no, three windows later…..finally invested in a headache rack.

Lost Croat Outburst
Guest
Lost Croat Outburst
3 years ago
Reply to  Dog

Ain’t you, Dog? Not very ambitious? ‘fess up. Let’s get crystal clear.

Yeah,sure
Guest
Yeah,sure
3 years ago

Curious why the names of the owners of the grows that are busted are not mentioned. Why are they immune to exposure for their criminal enterprises?

HashBucket
Guest
HashBucket
3 years ago
Reply to  Yeah,sure

Because its not a crime?

Just Watchin'
Guest
Just Watchin'
3 years ago

“46,791 illegal marijuana plants”— where’s the clone factory? do you get a discount if you buy that many?

Mike
Guest
Mike
3 years ago

I wonder if they are going to raid it a 3rd time this year, or let him get a run off?

Yeah,sure
Guest
Yeah,sure
3 years ago
Reply to  Mike

Wouldn’t doubt it.

Flat girl
Guest
Flat girl
3 years ago

Kym, I love the new feature of publishing stories “en Español”. A real service to a significant portion of our community💖

HotCoffee
Guest
HotCoffee
3 years ago
Reply to  Flat girl

Off topic but “en Español”reminded me, has anyone noticed this?
More trouble So. of the border?
Fast and furious guns?
Can or will the Mexican gov. stand up to this?

Video shows scores of Mexican cartel members flaunting military-grade weapons, armored trucks, cheering “El Mencho”

The men in the video, which appear to number over 100, are wearing military uniforms and body armor and brandishing machine guns. One man in the video unleashes a burst of automatic gunfire into the air.

The vehicles the cartel soldiers are standing by are mostly expensive, late-model trucks, outfitted with armor and military paint jobs and bearing the drug cartel’s crest, some with large-caliber top-mounted guns with turrets, and portholes around the vehicles from which to shoot from inside.

2 min. video here

https://disrn.com/news/video-shows-scores-of-mexican-cartel-members-with-military-grade-weapons-armored-vehicles-cheering-el-mencho

Yeah,sure
Guest
Yeah,sure
3 years ago
Reply to  HotCoffee

Its nothing new.
But points for planting some negativity seeds about Mexico .

HotCoffee
Guest
HotCoffee
3 years ago
Reply to  Yeah,sure

What you call “negativity seeds” I call awareness.
In several posts I’ve suggested we should be watching what’s going on all over the world.
Including Countries with soon coming famines.

So it’s today’s news post and that makes it today’s news.
What makes you think Latinos wouldn’t want to know this?
Why wouldn’t USA citizens want to know we may have provided these vehicles & weapons?

I pay attention to our Northern border too, don’t you?

Of course some people prefer to play ostrich.

Yeah,sure
Guest
Yeah,sure
3 years ago
Reply to  HotCoffee

Everyone who hasn’t been living in total isolation knows about the cartel violence in Mexico. If you want to see something fascinating and disturbing watch film footage of Sinaloa cartel taking back one of El Chapos sons after Mexican authorities arrested him last year. Google it.

HotCoffee
Guest
HotCoffee
3 years ago
Reply to  Yeah,sure

Oh so you watch it you just don’t want anyone to post about it …Hmmm

Yawn
Guest
Yawn
3 years ago
Reply to  HotCoffee

Watch out for that Maple Syrup smuggling and the migration of cheery attitudes

Halford Ramone
Guest
Halford Ramone
3 years ago
Reply to  Yeah,sure

YEAH SURE.. you: “wonder why the name of busted growers aren’t published” and then take it upon yourself to ” scrutinize bad actors”. Really you are justifying being a snitchy, high and mighty,troll when you decide it’s deserved and it’s not a good look. You can say what you want but so can every other American so your not special. Real news about real violence so close to home related to the industry being discussed offended you ? The facts about an extremely dangerous situation in Mexico was what HotCoffee gave us a link for. If you see ” seeds of negativity” ( tool) it’s because you are a racist. [edit]

Yeah,sure
Guest
Yeah,sure
3 years ago
Reply to  Halford Ramone

Oh, that hurt….😂

HotCoffee
Guest
HotCoffee
3 years ago
Reply to  Halford Ramone

Perfectly said … HR

Yesterdayscoffee
Guest
Yesterdayscoffee
3 years ago
Reply to  HotCoffee

A perfect phone call.

Local farmer
Guest
Local farmer
3 years ago

Karen is that you?🙄

I like stars
Guest
I like stars
3 years ago
Reply to  HotCoffee

I will divert the comments even further with a question.

Does anyone know where to get fresh cicharones closer than Ukiah? (Abuelita food is available at the market across from the airport in Ukiah.)

How about pollo milanesa?

Thesteve4761
Guest
Thesteve4761
3 years ago
Reply to  I like stars

I need me some Albondegas!

Willow Creeker
Guest
Willow Creeker
3 years ago
Reply to  Thesteve4761

The best, best Mexican food in northern CA is el Molino Central in sonoma (the town) Based on Diane Kennedy’s cooking style and cookbooks. Local ingredients and hand made tortillas. Highly recommended.

Yeah,sure
Guest
Yeah,sure
3 years ago
Reply to  Willow Creeker

Yes it is!! The fish tacos are really good. It’s small, parking is tight but it’s well worth it. They’re doing take out now.

In my 1911 I trust
Guest
In my 1911 I trust
3 years ago
Reply to  Yeah,sure

Tacos Los Gordos in Redding is a good one for burritos. I know those aren’t true Mexican food, but everyone likes a good burrito. From San Jose to the Oregon boarder those are the only burritos I’ve found that taste like they are from San Diego. Tommy’s down in San Fran is super good if you want a really tasty sit down authentic Mexican restaurant. They also have the largest selection of tequila in the Bay.

HotCoffee
Guest
HotCoffee
3 years ago
Reply to  I like stars

You might like this… if you like to do it yourself.

https://www.mexicoinmykitchen.com/recipes/

Jeffersonian
Guest
Jeffersonian
3 years ago
Reply to  HotCoffee

Would be more awesome if we got to see the bullets he fired into the air come back down on their heads…

Farce
Guest
Farce
3 years ago

Imagine if there were no raids at all. The price would become something like $50/pound this winter. These fine officers are providing us all with a price support system. It helps to think of them in this way…

Yeah,sure
Guest
Yeah,sure
3 years ago
Reply to  Farce

That’s right. There’s a fine balance.

Horsepucky
Guest
Horsepucky
3 years ago
Reply to  Farce

Weed should be as cheap as beer. The only reason for the high price of this medicine is greed.

Jsteezy
Guest
Jsteezy
3 years ago
Reply to  Horsepucky

well, some beer is expensive. The difference between bud light and a quality sour ale is a multitude of 10 to 50 depending. Kinda like at the clubs where you can find a bud light quality prerolled gram for 5 dollars or a nug of the super dank for 20+. The funny difference with beer is you can’t buy the ingredients and make it yourself any cheaper, or enough cheaper that it offsets the time and energy it takes. Plus the chance your home brew is gonna be all that good is low. If you think cannabis is too expensive, grow your own. All it takes is a small closet, fans, and a light. Or throw some plants outside right now. Not everyone can grow though. Hell, most states you can’t grow outside anyway because the weather does not allow a nice season for it. Therefore, supply and demand come into play. That’s why Cali grows most of the nations food and its expensive as hell to live here. I’ve also seen great pot go for $500/lb. You can’t even grow indoor for that little unless you’re stealing power or solared up the wazooh. It’s not greed, it’s basic market principles.

Back East
Guest
3 years ago

Are there very many legal mom and pop grows? I would consider a mom and pop a grow of 200 plants or less. What are the barriers for the little guy to get a permit? Roughly how much money would it cost? I’ve noticed quite a few people complaining about the barriers for the little guy and am genuinely curious. I thought i remembered I read about a special permit for smaller grows ( I could be mistaken). One would think that considering your region’s rich history of cultivation that the counties would try and make it easy for the average person to keep growing and to do it legally. Serious answers greatly appreciated thanks.

JB
Guest
JB
3 years ago
Reply to  Back East

There’s almost no way to actually answer that question accurately as the major expenses related to getting licensed are more the result of bringing the cultivation site into compliance with the building/grading codes and CEQA (California Environmental Quality Act) than the costs of the actual licenses.

The licenses themselves can be five to tens of thousands of dollars (depending on size), and while it might take only $25K or less to bring one site into compliance, another site just down the road might run $250k or much more.

It might seem arbitrary and unfair, but it’s simply easier to get a license if your site is already up to code and is such that it requires very little on the CEQA front. Sadly, this isn’t the typical “Mom/Pop” legacy site.

There is an almost automatic edge granted to those who are fortunate enough to be able to get mobile and go looking for a site that is affordable to get through the process — again, not the usual ‘Mom/Pop’ situation.

justanotherperson
Guest
justanotherperson
3 years ago
Reply to  Back East

Under 200 full term plants sure, plenty did just fine with the standing 215 99.

Swine
Guest
Swine
3 years ago

Or 10…

Farce
Guest
Farce
3 years ago
Reply to  Back East

I’ll tell you what is a serious burden for me- right out of the gate. 1)Needing to register your own water supply on your own land and pay an annual fee to use it. This has never been done here before and so I see it as a very important precedent. I consider that is the first step to giving up your water rights- from your own spring on your own land to a government bureaucracy. It is not required for anything but cannabis….2) Paying fees where some of them go directly into a program to eradicate non-permitted grows ie. your neighbors. As a veteran of CAMP raids and being here since 1977 I cannot do this for moral reasons. ….Then comes all the money and paperwork. So you can have the benefit of signing away your water rights and eradicating or having the county abate your neighbors. For me the costs are way too heavy and I’m not talking financial…Oh- and it’s a…(see my name)

Laura hall
Guest
Laura hall
3 years ago
Reply to  Farce

Thank you Farse. Exactly what you said. And Support your local black market, it matters.

Poor Farmer
Guest
Poor Farmer
3 years ago
Reply to  Farce

Hello Farce: Besides the Board Of Supervisors and Mr. Ford being the most dangerous entities in our County; I would say that the Water Board (not elected, but appointed) are vying for that honor now. What could happen if one fine day the Water Board just changed the word cannabis to vegy’s and demanded you beg for permission to use your own water and of course pay lots of money to eat good ole organic food? The Water Board now has their foot in the door taking your water rights away because of growing cannabis! When cannabis truly becomes legal or the FEDS change it to a schedule 2 or 3 does anybody think the Water Board is going to release their power back to “WE THE PEOPLE” I don’t think so!! Fear the Water Board. Without water Humboldt County would fold up; Think Agenda 21/30. It could/can happen!!!

Willow Creeker
Guest
Willow Creeker
3 years ago
Reply to  Farce

Farce- registering your water rights with water board has been around for awhile. It is how you claim your water rights and can be useful if there is a dispute. If you have deeded water rights from a neighboring parcel for example. While I find it to be a pain in the ass, and kind of unamerican, I have done it annually for years. I definitely don’t support these government agencies in theory but I see the point in registering water rights. ‘Whiskeys for drinking, waters for fighting’

Ullr Rover
Guest
Ullr Rover
3 years ago
Reply to  Willow Creeker

I think the main issue is registering riparian waters including wells and springs. These sources are carried by the property title and the water board is just another, unnecessary bureaucratic layer.

Black Rifles Matter
Guest
Black Rifles Matter
3 years ago
Reply to  Ullr Rover

Yep. Had to put a water meter on my spring and I have no cultivation going on at this property, just irrigation for cattle pasture grazing. I have Riparian and pre 1914 water rights (whatever that means) and no weed cultivation and they still strong armed me into it and made me pay for it all too. Fackin bs. But… it is what it is. The price we pay to live here in Ca. on land with water I guess. There have been many times I told my wife I was done with this place. But…. I’m still here and I do still love it.

Poor Farmer
Guest
Poor Farmer
3 years ago
Reply to  Ullr Rover

Hello Rover: Here’s what happens; The Government makes something that was lawful to do, illegal. They then charge you a fee (which is a bribe) to turn their backs and give you a permit that allows you to break the law that they just said was illegal to do.

Poor Farmer
Guest
Poor Farmer
3 years ago
Reply to  Willow Creeker

Hello Willow Creeker: Think of it this way; When you register you are giving whoever you register with the right to control what you are registering. I.E. When you register your car you are giving the State (DMV) the right to control said car. If you don’t have a registration tag or papers they can hook your car up and take it away because they have control (not ownership). When you register your water they/them have control!!! That’s why you pay!!!

Willow Creeker
Guest
Willow Creeker
3 years ago
Reply to  Poor Farmer

I know, I hate dealing with them. They would be the hardest agency I could play devils advocate for almost. But I’ll say this- I like good clean water. Me and the family go to the trinity or other rivers around Willow Creek all the time. The water boards keeps things like hydraulic mining, too much pond building, logging close to water, growing too close to water etc from happening. I like that. I don’t like registering my water use, and I do feel like the creek that runs by my house is my property. But if I was an asshole and wanted to damn it up and make a lake, I probably shouldn’t be allowed to do that.

Poor Farmer
Guest
Poor Farmer
3 years ago
Reply to  Willow Creeker

Hello WC: Some of my used to be favorite swimming holes are on the South Fork of the Trinity at Hells Gate; make a left at the junction. As you cross the Dinsmore bridge going to Dinsmore look left and you will see a huge rock, nice deep hole. Oh and lets not forget Lost Bridge, that is a very popular swimming hole with beaches, a lot of people there all the time. And between Bridgeville and Goat Rock are some mighty fine beaches with private little cubby holes. As for why you answered my post, I just wanted to define the legal term for when you register something and what it means when you do! I agree with everything you said.

JahKeem101 dreams...
Guest
3 years ago
Reply to  Back East

This guy (Back East) is onto something people. Cottage Industry Cultivator Permit.
In Missouri this is the first year of medical marijuana. There are only patient/caregiver permits (which allow 6 flowered plants per person & Max 3 permits at one site) OR commerical permits and there were only a small number of commercial permits.
But we are already trying to get Amendment 2 onto the ballot and passed which will create a new category of license (and business) which is the Cottage Industry Cultivator. Plant limit would be 150 flowering with this proposed permit.

Jsteezy
Guest
Jsteezy
3 years ago
Reply to  Back East

Number of plants is completely irrelevant. In fact, trying to have fewer, larger plants uses an incredible amount more water, and you have to use a much higher concentration of nutrients to feed properly, which is no bueno for runoff into waterways. Row cropping 5 to 6 footers is the way to do full term. Around 2k plants an acre. Plant teens. right. now.

mike D
Guest
mike D
3 years ago

WAR IS HELL

Lynth
Guest
Lynth
3 years ago

Thank you for the comprehensive article, Kym!

Lost Croat Outburst
Guest
Lost Croat Outburst
3 years ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

Yes, very good. Nice pic of the weed wall. President Trump would be glad to know the wall is being built. Is this a great place or what?

economic suicide
Guest
economic suicide
3 years ago

Humboldt had some where up to a Billion dollars that came from all over the country and the world, delivered. Every year mass transportations of cash infused the local economies because it was locals who received the money. It was locals who spent that money at local businesses.
TO ALL YOU “THEY GOT WHAT THEY DESERVED” ASSHOLES. You are about to get what you deserve. Have fun with your economic stagnation and lack of jobs. Have fun with your boarded up businesses and rampant petty crime. Have fun watching a beautiful community full of colorful people be drained of its unique character and replaced with corporate chains.
You people are assholes. And that billion dollars that is now Leaving the area nearly in total, to make rich fucks stock portfolios thicker, that is partially your shame. Close minded fucking dipshits

Laura hall
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Laura hall
3 years ago

Economic suicide, you rock the truth.

Yeah,sure
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Yeah,sure
3 years ago

And what of the Greenrush? That definitely wasn’t all LOCALS, not by a long shot.
If the greenrush were still happening right now, pounds would be worth a hundred bucks and the only rich people would be the grow supply stores , food stores and truck dealerships.

Jeffersonian
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Jeffersonian
3 years ago

Yo, suicide, you pretty much nailed it. All these haters glad that the powers that be are wasting energy on this instead of thinking about the big picture and the coming economic collapse. Staggering shortsightedness..MET is like the titanic orchestra, still playing their last music..

Horsepucky
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Horsepucky
3 years ago

For decades greedy growers damaged our ecosystem with erosion, water theft, rat poison and pollution. Also a careless disregard for consumer health spraying buds with dangerous chemicals to protect their profits. Screw the trickle down economy theory and screw the economic prosperity of a few at the expense of our ecosystem.

Jsteezy
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Jsteezy
3 years ago

A billion? Lol. So. Much. More. That means only 1000 people made a million dollars.

With liberty and justice for all
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With liberty and justice for all
3 years ago

Yep farce riparian water rights are a constitutional right nation wide !!!! So in other words what California is doing with OUR water is illegal because it says so IN THE CONSTITUTION!!!!!
But hey vote for the same representation.. coming soon an annual fee for breathing our air !!!!!
BREATHING PERMIT

JB
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JB
3 years ago

The constitutional protection of riparian water rights are not unrestricted. “Reasonable use”is the legal driver (and context driven at that).

Riparian rights do not legally allow one to draw water in such a way as to negatively impact others in a measure greater than your own share.

Long (looooooooooooong) established Constitutional law.

Poor Farmer
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Poor Farmer
3 years ago
Reply to  JB

Hello JB: I have posted this before on the RHBB, BUT I think it’s time to do it again. Article X of the California Constitution. It is hereby declared that because of the conditions prevailing in the State the general welfare requires that the water resources of the State be put to beneficial use to the fullest extent of which they are capable, and that the waste or unreasonable use or unreasonable method of use of water be prevented, and that the conservation of such waters is to be exercised with a view to the reasonable and beneficial use thereof in the interest of the people and for the public welfare. The right to water or to the use or flow of water in or from any natural stream or water course in this State is and shall be limited to such water as shall be reasonably required for the beneficial use to be served, and such right does not and shall not extend to the waste or unreasonable use or unreasonable method of use or unreasonable method of diversion of water, Riparian rights in the stream or water course attach to, but to no more than so much of the flow thereof as may be required or used consistently with this section, for the purposes for which such lands are, or may be adaptable, in view of such reasonable and beneficial uses; provided, however, that nothing herein contained shall be construed as depriving any riparian owner of the reasonable use of water of the stream to which the owner’s land is riparian under reasonable methods of diversion and use, or as depriving any appropriator of water to which the appropriator is lawfully entitled. This section shall be self-executing, and the Legislature may also enact laws in the furtherance of the policy in this section contained.

JB
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JB
3 years ago
Reply to  Poor Farmer

Correct. As one can see, the Constitutional right is limited and allowed to be fine tuned in context by the legislature. Any limitations placed on the extraction of such water must then stand the test of the courts (and with an exception here and there, they have).

As is generally the case (and generally necessary), in society the individual doesn’t get to declare “reasonable and beneficial use” by simple assertion.

Poor Farmer
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Poor Farmer
3 years ago
Reply to  JB

Hello JB: I’ve got more on the Water Board BUT I want to go to sleep now, so tomorrow I will post. Nothing monumental! Just facts.

JB
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JB
3 years ago
Reply to  Poor Farmer

I carry no water for the Boards, but just wanted to note that contrary to what was said my the commenter, one is not constitutionally guaranteed the right to any and all water crossing one’s property. Such a right simply doesn’t exist, as you have also shown.

Poor Farmer
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Poor Farmer
3 years ago
Reply to  JB

Hello JB and good morning: From my last comment last night; I am going to post a few different comments as the subjects change: 1. The State Water Resource Control Board was created by the legislative in 1967, the joint authority of water allocation and water quality protection enables the State Water Board to provide comphrension protection for California waters. 2. The state Water Board Board consist of 5 full time salaried members each filling a different specialty position—Board members are appointed to to 4 year terms by the Governor and confirmed by the Senate. 3. There are 9 regional water quality control boards. The mission of the regional boards is to develope and enforce water quality,objective and implementation plans that will best protect the States water. Their task is protecting and enforcing the many uses of water, including industry, agriculture, municipal districts and environment. No biggie, just facts.

Poor Farmer
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Poor Farmer
3 years ago
Reply to  JB

Hello JB. 1. Water rights mission statement: Our mission is to establish and maintain a stable system of water rights in California to best develope, conserve, and utilize in the public interest the water resources of the State while protecting water RIGHTS, water quality and the environment. 2. Another mission statement I found: To preserve, enhance, and restore the quality of California’s water resources and drinking water for the protection of the environment, public health, and all beneficial use, and to ensure proper water resources allocation and efficient use, for the benefit of present and future generations. Again no biggie, just facts.

Poor Farmer
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Poor Farmer
3 years ago
Reply to  JB

Hello JB: The state Water Board is responsible for the protection of resources, such as fisheries, wild life, aesthetics, navigation, which are held in TRUST for the public. The State Water Board must consider these responsibilites when planning and allocating water resources and protect public trust uses whenever feasible. The State Water Board must consider these public trust values in the balancing of all beneficial uses of water, in accordance with the water RIGHTS mission statement and water code Sub-section 1253. 2 Water Code 1253: The Board shall allow the appropriation for beneficial purposes of unappropriated water under such terms and conditions as in its judgement will best develope, conserve, and utilize in the public interests the water sought to be appropriated. Again just facts.

Poor Farmer
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Poor Farmer
3 years ago
Reply to  JB

Hello JB: 1. Riparian-Rights Doctrine: The rule that owners of land bordering a waterway have equal rights to use the water passing through or by their property. 2. Riparian proprietor: A person who is in possession of riparian land or who owns an estate in it. 3.Riparian rights: The right of the land owner whose property borders on a body of water or watercourse. Such a land owner traditionally has the right to make reasonable use of the water. When I bought my 40 acres and a mule in 1977, it specifically says I have quaranted riparian water rights. Contract Law is everything!!! The above meanings on Riparian RIGHTS came from 8th edition “BLACKS LAW DICTIONARY

JB
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JB
3 years ago
Reply to  Poor Farmer

All good stuff, and all confirming that one has no carte blanche constitutional, unlimited right to water crossing your property.

I’m unsure what point your trying to make. So far it appears that we’re pretty much in agreement.

Poor Farmer
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Poor Farmer
3 years ago
Reply to  JB

Hello JB: Yes I too believe that we are mostly in agreement. I’m not saying I have carte blanche on unreasonable use or unreasonable waste or taking all the water above me (as my neighbors do) I do have reasonable use to use my share without asking anybody’s permission (i.e. the gov’t) I do believe in CONTRACTS which America runs on, and my DEED says I have riparian rights in said contract. Like a lot of commenters on the RHBB we don’twant gov’t overreach and to stay away!!

JB
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JB
3 years ago
Reply to  Poor Farmer

// ” I do have reasonable use to use my share without asking anybody’s permission (i.e. the gov’t)”//

Actually, that’s where you’re wrong — it’s not you who individually gets to decide ‘reasonable use’. As noted in the code you posted, it’s the legislative body who oversees that and then tasks government agencies to enforce those decisions. Your own personal input on the term must come through those mechanisms. That means that in a very real sense, you DO have to ‘get permission’ from those powers to ensure others that you are not taking more than your share.

Your Constitutional right comes with explicit governmental oversight.

As I noted, societies don’t work as societies if we allow every individual to decide for themselves what is reasonable. To many individuals have too many different ideas of the term.

Do these agencies behave correctly always? — far from it. Must we remain vigilant and challenge their decisions through the courts when appropriate? Yep.

Civics 101.

Poor Farmer
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Poor Farmer
3 years ago
Reply to  Poor Farmer

Hello JB: There is no reply box on your last comment so I will comment on your comment which is above. 1. Section 3.5 of the California Constitution says: An administrative agency, including an administrative agency created by the Constitution or initiative statue has no POWER. The Water Board code I quoted 1253 is just that a code (which in the hierarcy of laws is the lowest law in the land). If section 3.5 does not give any power to any agency, why do I have to get permission from those powers to ensure others that I am not taking more than my share? Am I guilty until I prove my innocents? Do I also have to get permission to exercise my other rights? I.E.All people are by nature free and independent and have inalienable rights. Among these are enjoying and defending life and liberty, acquiring, possessing, and protecting property, and pursuing and obtaining safety, happiness, and privacy, by some agency. The Water Board as said before is appointed( not elected by the people) by the Governor, should an agency as such have more control over my land than I do? Not by my way of reading the California Constitution! I believe that taking my water rights away as per an agency is a takings which then I should be compensated for? Section 7 of the California says: A person may not be deprived of life liberty, or property without due process of law or denied equal protection of the laws; provided, that nothing contained herein or elsewhere in the Constitution imposes upon the State of California or any public entity, BOARD, or official any obligations or responsibilities which exceed those imposed by the Egual Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution! Under Section 16 of the California Constitution says: Trial by JURY is an inviolate right and shall be secured to all! Do I get due process when the county (or mr. Ford or the Water Board) says I have to get permission from them and pay monies to use what use to be lawful and my right to do so. Remember the Water Board was created in 1967 and the Code Enforcement was created sometime in the mid 1980’s; way after this Constitution was created (1879) Article 26 states: The provisions of this constitution are mandatory and prohibitory, unless by express words they are declared to be otherwise. JB; we are just going round and around on this subject; I guess someday the courts will have to give us a ruling that defines they/them rights or the rights to the “WE THE PEOPLE” Remember this country was founded on individual rights and that the gov’t has very limited powers! JB you have the last word!

Farce
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Farce
3 years ago
Reply to  Poor Farmer

To JB and Poor Farmer- I really appreciate you both jumping into this…Good reading and debate about riparian water rights. My personal concern is about my spring. It doesn’t connect on a topo map with any blue-line creek. It does not connect above-ground with a stream going into a blue-line creek except maybe a couple months in a wet winter. Yet for the cannabis requirements I am required to hire a geologist to sign off on their opinion that it doesn’t connect underground in any way. And then after paying the geologist and a couple other people I can get my permit processed and pay the annual fee. And this is required even to grow my 6 “legal” plants!! This is my personal problem with the situation. I’m definitely all about protecting our fish and riparian communities. I consider the Water Board and Fish and Wildlife as allies in that. But this overreach- which includes me asking for and paying for using my own spring makes me believe that I am possibly giving up my future water rights to the government. Sure feels that way! I do not believe that oversight and permit requirements for a spring wholly contained on your property were entangled in this way before the cannabis issue. At least with my place it’s the first time my use of my spring has been brought up! (been using it since ’78 no issue). I think it’s a BIG issue and I’m surprised that I have found so little written about it. Indeed…your debate has been the most I’ve seen!

Lost Croat Outburst
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Lost Croat Outburst
3 years ago
Reply to  JB

Yes, of course. Any idea that if a water source flows through your property you have the right to preempt the entire flow for your own use, and to hell with down stream users, is ridiculous. Not a lawyer, but my guess is that juries and judges will parse out water rights, under law, in the fairest way possible.

However, I absolutely recognize Farce’s issues with his personal spring which essentially doesn’t connect to a blue-line flowing stream. Excessive regs and exorbitant fees have screwed the commercial weed market. The excessive water regs will put the kabosh on rural living in general. Is that a good thing? In my day, folks shared water from common sources and maintained awareness of their neighbor’s needs and the wildlife as well. What if you want water for your home and a personal or commercial food garden? What then? Why can’t the same rules and regs for food crops simply transfer over to pot? Folks who hate pot can gloat over the fact that excessive fees and extreme regulation are a major drag on the industry. No liberal hypocrisy there, weed economics are a maze of hoops to leap through and fees to pay. It sucks.

Your lawyer agrees that you need a government sign-off for six cannabis plants? Really? What about six roses? Roses take as much or more water and nutes as weed if you’re going for max development.

This is fun, but I have to quit while my data is still current. Sad, I know.

Average Joe
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Average Joe
3 years ago

Hey guys, I’m looking to network with area growers. If anyone is interested, let me know.

Fedup
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Fedup
3 years ago

Charging you for your own water is stealing you soul ! Screw em !

Scooter
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Scooter
3 years ago

So did the cops leave that nice greenhouse standing? Did they take the lights? The fans? The covers? Did they pull it down with their rigs? Nah they just left it all sitting there ready to be filled again. Mediocre.

Yeah,sure
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Yeah,sure
3 years ago
Reply to  Scooter

Looks like the owner of the grow has lots of money to spend and would just replace everything anyways.
Will be interesting to see if they’re going to try for a third round.

Look evil in eye
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Look evil in eye
3 years ago

Replant,, double plant, triple plant, if everyone does this they can not stop us, everybody needs to fill their yards and gardens, community groups need to form security groups and man the gates against illegal actions of law enforcement. Why is the community still taking orders from white bald men from Eureka, grow some balls and stand up against these evil oppressors

SmallFry
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SmallFry
3 years ago

Hey.. that’s a Nice Green house… I bet it’s never killed anyone.. it doesn’t look like the “Ghost Ship” to me. Actually it looks like… hmm. Only plants are inhabiting that space.. ohh. Scary.. omg. It’s Marijuanna. In the raw. Ohh haven’t seen that before..

But anyways. This Ghouse is a good example of how you could stack a bunch of little plants in a relatively small space. How many gum balls are in the jar.. or how many plants are in he greenie? Well. If green house rafters are 4 to 6 feet apart.. I count 16 rafters soo maybe 60ft to maybe 100ft long. Somewhere In between.. I count 10 plants across, in the middle bed… so if it’s a 50 ft bed it would easily be 500 if 100ft long it would be 1000.. just in the middle bed.. sides.. maybe a little smaller. I would guestimate somewhere around… 500 on the sides, and 800 in the middle bed.. soo somewhere along.. 1500 to 2000 little plants in that green house alone give or take.. In the 80’s it would have been shocking.. but welcome to the 21st century folks.. That Green House is probably only 2500 sq ft at the most.. maybe 3000. Big numbers.. not really, course, there must have been like 7 ghouses of them that size.. to be about 14,000 square ft…. still that’s
25×100 Or 2500sq ft x 7 = only about 20,000 sq ft.. or about 1/2 acre… still pittens to any real Agricultural crop..

Anyway 2500 sq ft.. is fairly small. On that note.. 10,000 square ft.. isn’t that big.. the average lawn in the US is 10,000 sq ft. How much water do You think the Average lawn uses? A lot! But it’s only a sin if you use the water for Marijuana…
And 10’000 sq ft is only 1/4 of an acre. To put it to scale..

Average lawn in US
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjfsJ7az9zqAhWFGc0KHT6MAqgQFjAGegQIIxAH&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.homeadvisor.com%2Fr%2Faverage-yard-size-by-state%2F&usg=AOvVaw2QGK-RWzbBse2aXkymxHKS

Anyway.. to all the folks that think 100 plants is plenty.. that’s ridiculous. I think there is a threshold in the hills as to size…. but square foot is a better way to measure, rather than old school “plant count”.. I have been working with smaller plants. And I kinda like it over the old school giant plant thing. I understand that the county is putting together a smaller scale ordinance around under 2500 sq ft. That’s a little small, but if it keeps the water board and Fish and game off the little folks, And out of the greenies it’s reasonable.. especially on larger acres. 1000 sqft in. Any yard. With respect to neighbors shouldn’t bat an eye. 6 plants could easily fill that space.

Does size really matter.. well, in my view, in the sensitive habit that Is occupied.. I kinda think it does. But, even though the market is flooded, and will overgrow itself anyway at one point or another.. so in respects to “amounts” at this point. I think it’s questionable..

Honestly…. If I the state gave an actual care as to whether or not the “product” stays in the state or not.. they wouldn’t have allowed the 1 acre cap to be tossed to the wind. T+T isn’t going to be effective on the scale that they promoted at this Point. So what’s the real deal.? Why continue this prohibition? Why not institute some reasonable policies and stop pestering, terrorizing and extorting people? Especially smaller cultivators who basically lives hand to mouth?

What’s the point here.. we’ll, I guess I am just trying to reason with this fear of omg it’s thousands of plants sort of reaction.. cause I thinks it’s just basically broadcasting fear, and essentially propaganda. I am not trying to ignore the impacts on the river, because it’s obvious there are impacts to the environment, and such. as well as other issues with The green rush… I just think ‘legalization’ has spread a lot of hype..

Emeral
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Emeral
3 years ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

Kim that photo is of spring time of 2019 to be exact

SmallFry
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SmallFry
3 years ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

I am not going to deny that this is on the larger side of impacting the environment.. but by my count from the eye in the sky image .. I would guess it is still somewhere around 20,000 square ft. For the hoop field and maybe plus 2 25×100 hoops and another 25×100 pitched roof ghouse by the structure which is probably the one in the picture.. yet the county permits large grows Like this all the time..

Also, it actually looks like in the upper right is a bunch of water storage tanks.. also a pond and a water bladder.

It’s probably not in my interest to defend a large scene like this, I just am framing a perspective on size. I mean a farm this Impactual should probably have some permitting and water storage regs. ( they have water storage)..

What I am mostly referring to is the pitched roof ghouse next to the structure. Probably about 2500 sq ft, and an example of how you can easily rack a couple thousand plants into a green house that size.. that’s why I think around 100 plants is inadequate and square footage is more reasonable. What the county is harassing people for is something the size of the green house next to the structure. Very small in perspective to the rest the satellite image.. and a very small impact to the environment.. compared..

Even the regs for something like 2500sf to 7500sf are way to excessive. I guess that’s the point I am trying to make..

kay y
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kay y
3 years ago

another 1 bro u still got time

14 obo rn

Me
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Me
3 years ago

Whatever! Mendoncino has been doing this since cannabis became legal! We had licenses posted, and two years in a row, same time, same day as the year before, they wood chipped Everything! Lying right to our face saying they contacted the CDFA and said our licenses were not current! On a Sunday! At 7am!
So we are suing the MCSD! Hmmmmmmph! We had to surrender our licenses.
Like Ive been saying for 4 years, “what is it all for?”
The cannabis industry is a big fat joke! Life has never been better

JB
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JB
3 years ago
Reply to  Me

// ” Lying right to our face saying they contacted the CDFA and said our licenses were not current!”//

Do you claim they were lying because the licenses were in fact current with the CDFA, or lying because you claim they didn’t in fact check with the CDFA to know?

I’m struggling to understand how if you had for two years running, a current State and County license in good standing, this would happen without someone like Kym reaming the authorities in public.

I’m going with the odds here and speculate — you weren’t current.

JB
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JB
3 years ago

Continuation from above of an excellent discussion with Poor Farmer and Farce regarding the Water Board policies:

(apparently ‘replies’ nest only so deep and we reached that point where the ‘Reply’ feature no longer showed up … so I’ll restart here)

Farce: // “I am required to hire a geologist to sign off on their opinion that it doesn’t connect underground in any way. … I do not believe that oversight and permit requirements for a spring wholly contained on your property were entangled in this way before the cannabis issue.”//

I can’t speak to your particular situation above, but I totally agree as to the absolute insanity regarding what can(‘t) be done with cannabis vs any other crop – but I do know the history of how it got this way. I call it “Paying for the sins of our Fathers.”

The ‘greenrush’ of the last 15 years or so literally changed the perception of the industry by the people of California. Correct or not, it was no longer seen as the domain of the tree hugging hippy with a small grow but rather populated by cartels draining the streams and clogging the rivers with silt and chemicals. By the time 64 came around, one of the big sales pitches was “Never again will we give the cannabis farmers free rein to impact the environment this way”. Rightly or wrongly (a little of both), cannabis farmers got a reputation not unlike the Hooker Chemical Company (Love Canal) and Exxon (Valdes).

During the outdoor season, our property has 36 acre feet (~12 million gallons) PER DAY of surface water rights (deeded 1919) and we can waste that water any way we wish on any crop we wish … but not a drop for cannabis. It’s absolutely crazy.

Poor Farmer
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Poor Farmer
3 years ago
Reply to  JB

Hello JB: Yes we did have a lively discussion, and we both told what we believed was our own truth. We did so without cussing or belittling each other. I thank you for that because more than likely we might do it again! We got a few commenters to respond BUT I’m going to assume ( a word I don’t often use) that thousands read our debate, it’s an important subject, especially if you got your land many moons ago or your parents left it to you, we got to pick some mighty fine parcels which had water on them, I know that’s one reason I bought my 40 acres and a mule! As I have mentioned in a previous post that once the county and the Water Board get their foot in the door with controlling the water on your property because you grow pot, it allows them to maybe expand and change the rules just a little bit down the road. While I’m thinking of it ( little off topic); I want to thank the RHBB for allowing all of us to express our view, opinions, truths on your site; Kym you are the QUEEN of FREE SPEECH and if I knew how I would recommend you for some kind of an award!! Your the best in the four counties around you and you even have commenters from other places. I’m not trying to kiss any azz, I obey your rules which is very, very easy to do and you allow me to post on your site. I miss the Centrals post! And JB I’m not going to comment on your last paragraph! Nikki, I am still running for the second district and will E-mail you within a week.

Lost Croat Outburst
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Lost Croat Outburst
3 years ago
Reply to  JB

Yes, it is absolutely crazy. If you put in a massive commercial food garden, complete with labeled nutes and pesticides (label directions) you are good to go. But weed . . . . .oh, wow, man.

Poor Farmer
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Poor Farmer
3 years ago

Hello Farce: You state that you believe that you might be giving up your future water rights to the government. This is the exact question I have asked our public servant before!! My exact question was: If/when you asked for permission to use your own water on your own property and after you pay them and they give you permission to do so does the CONTRACT die after you are gone? (RIP) What if you want to give it to your children! Does said CONTRACT stay with the property FOREVER and ever which would be a burden to your children or even if you sold it, it would be a tax, burden on the new buyers which then new buyers would not want to pay. Of course our public servants did not want to answer to their MASTERS!!! That is the problem “WE THE PEOPLE” Our servants do not think they have to answer to their masters!

JB
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JB
3 years ago
Reply to  Poor Farmer

I suspicion that the concerns surrounding this issue are real.

Farce could likely use that spring for the rest of his/her life for any other crop and it would never be questioned or challenged. Go for a cannabis permit and the chance is taken that it will be officially declared ‘hydraulically connected’ to the stream. Suddenly, the water no longer ‘belongs’ to the property.

I truly understand the reticence for folks to even attempt to get a license as it may trigger all sort of life changing requirements on the property — even if the license request is withdrawn.

Lost Croat Outburst
Guest
Lost Croat Outburst
3 years ago
Reply to  JB

Exactly right. You’re trying to do the right thing and now your water source is in the government’s ledger forever, even if you withdraw your permit application. It really, really, really super sucks.

I thought the water situation was as JB says below. If your spring arises on your property and does not connect to any year-round blue-line waterway, then it’s yours alone, it’s golden. It flows for a distance and goes underground again. The good news is that such springs, by definition, are low flow and usually enough for a moderate homestead. Period. You can only pull a certain amount out of the watershed. Self-regulating.

If even that rule is out, we have really screwed ourselves. If you are reasonably sharing water from a stream with considerate neighbors and you apply for a permit and DFG or whomever denies the permit for weed, can they shut down your property’s water completely, thereby evicting you and destroying your property values(no water)?

So, apply for a permit, get denied, lose all your water, lose everything.

Pinkasso
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Pinkasso
3 years ago

Same goes for zoning, my 120+ year old homestead has always been mineral springs and a camp ground. Zoned unclassified. Do I want liability insurance? well I need to get zoned for commercial to be classed a trailer park as that is what camping seems to be. Going commercial = having to get industrial gas cans, permits for my already on site propane and a water and waste discharge permits. I charge all of $5 for tent camping……

JB
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JB
3 years ago
Reply to  Pinkasso

“I guess every form of refuge has its price”

Relevant words if they ever existed. So many requirements change once ‘commercial’ get attached. Nap of the earth flying vs popping up into radar range and the SAMS start launching.

We got news at our operation of a entirely new batch of SAMS headed our way in the form of new regulations from the California Energy Commission. Regulations that if enacted as written will nearly double our power usage.

Best wishes with your dilemma.

Poor Farmer
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Poor Farmer
3 years ago

Tomorrow I am going to E-mail Estelle the question Farce and I were talking about which was/is! When you ask for permission to use your water, on your own land and get that permission, does the contract end when the property owner either dies, gives it to his children or sells it, or does it stay forever with the property. Estelle has free lawyer advice through the county council office so she should be able to answer that simple question with a YES or NO. Any bets!!!

JB
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JB
3 years ago
Reply to  Poor Farmer

I’m not a water rights attorney, but neither am I ignorant of the laws in this arena. Take that for what it’s worth.

A: Most riparian rights, unless deeded, are subject to change over time. This is because your ‘share’ is not defined as a fixed volume, but defined as a changing ‘reasonable use’. Watering your garden is legally different from bottling water and shipping it to Fiji.

B: If you have a spring that starts and ends on your property and has been determined and agreed (by the water authorities) that it is not hydraulically connected to any passing streams/rivers, the output of that spring IS considered the property of the property owner forever – no permission required.

I suspect you won’t get an answer you’re looking for from Estelle. The reason may be because she doesn’t answer such questions (no experience with her), or it may be because your question is worded very broadly and as such can’t really be answered in the binary way you wish.

Btw Farmer, I appreciate your communication style. I find it productive and educational. Thanks.

SmallFry
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SmallFry
3 years ago
Reply to  Poor Farmer

Thanks Poor Farmer, JB, and Farce. Definitely appreciate your constructive conversations. Something that sticks out to me is ‘reasonable use.’ It seems to me that the Waterhoarders have defined terms of water use on cannabis as “unreasonable”. They say we need 100’s of thousands of gallons for water storage for small square footage, when my calculations are in the tens of thousands. I would say I don’t even use an Acre foot of water per 2500 sf per year. They don’t even start charging you a minimal amount until after 10 acre ft. That’s a lot of water for these parts…

What other agricultural crop constitutes having to store water for the entire year? None. That’s unreasonable. I could see it starting in mid July till first rains.. but storing for the entire year, pretty much means to me that they are then denying your “reasonable” use. But… only when it pertains to “cannabis” which is now a legal crop. Why isn’t reasonable to use your deeded water on a legal crop? Honestly, it really just seems like harassment from this agency, then any sort of “reasonable use” policy. They are denying use of your water based on “the crop“ your growing. How is that “reasonable”.. If I have 2500 sf of veggies or 2500 sf of tomatoes or even a small vinyard, what’s the difference?

I don’t think it should cost any more per year for a small garden of cannabis then it does for a basic small irrigation permit.. they provide no service. Absolutely none. Paying to use my own water, untreated.. with me providing my own infulstructure should not cost the same as a water bill from the city every month. To me that’s unreasonable. And extortion..

It’s unreasonable to have to hire engineers, geologists, paperpushers or any other overly burdensome regulatory agencies just to use essentially would be a small irritation permit for smaller gardens. How is that constituted as “reasonable” use? I would say that the water hoarders are denying people’s right to a reasonable use based solely on the “crop” they are growing and not any “real” or “solid” factual data. They are WAY out of line here, and they are operating essentially without any checks and balances… and making up arbitrary numbers on water storage, while allow HUGE grows in agricultural areas that really are parched.. while they deny the same actual food farmers water for growing crops we actually need!

Thanks again for this discussion… Poor Farmer for Supervisor!

JB
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JB
3 years ago
Reply to  SmallFry

Agreed

Poor Farmer
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Poor Farmer
3 years ago
Reply to  SmallFry

Hello Small Fry: You have commented on the right word, ‘reasonable’. All that I have quoted is of this one word. Who gets to define this word, the paper pushers, the land owners, the State Constitution, or a jury. We will see! How can the paper pushers (The gov’t) say that a vegy crop is OK to grow BUT a weed crop is a different beast, which are both legal. To me it comes down to control and extortion (money). There are 58 counties in California, not all of them have this policy on cannabis as Humboldt does which means it is NOT LAW BUT an ordinance of the supervisors. I think “WE THE PEOPLE” need to understand who is controlling us with their 5 votes! Are our supervisors representing us as our public servants OR??????????? You decide!! As a person who is running for the second district who has no money and all of 3-4 votes I think I got Estelle running scared. Thanks Small Fry for your vote. I’ve got to go now to practice my acceptance speech and to read my OATH of OFFICE. (Article 20, section 3 of the California CONSTITUTION>

JB
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JB
3 years ago
Reply to  Poor Farmer

// “There are 58 counties in California, not all of them have this policy on cannabis as Humboldt does which means it is NOT LAW BUT an ordinance of the supervisors.”//

A: County ordinance is as valid a law as a State ordinance (didn’t say it was smart … just valid). Laws need not be the same in every county for them to be valid.

I know your heart is in the right place, but some basic civic lessons might be in order because your above assertion that they must all be equal to be valid is just crazy wrong.

B: Which policy are you referring to when you say “not all of them have this policy?”

Poor Farmer
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Poor Farmer
3 years ago
Reply to  JB

Hello JB: I passed my basic civics class some 60 years ago. I’ve gone on from there. What I said is that the State Constitution ( and the U.S. constitution) are the Supreme LAW in the land, everything is subordinate to said LAWS. States make statues, counties make ordinances and codes. And all of these HAVE to coincide with the LAW of the land. To challenge a statue, code etc usually cost millions and years in court, the small (WE THE PEOPLE) can not afford to do this, that’s is why these ordinances, codes stay in effect for so long. Look at it this way; Does Trinity County have the same regulations about registering your own water on your own land, and make you have (sign) a CONTRACT? The answer is NO. Do the surrounding counties have the same dollar amount of fines as Humboldt does, for breaking an ordinance or code. Again NO. I did not say that an ordinance is not valid (your word) because it is valid, I’m just saying it might not be LAWFUL!!! BLACKS LAW 8th edition: ORDINANCE: An administrative law or decree, especially a municipal regulation——Municipal government can pass ordinances on matters that the state government allows to be regulated at the local level. There are around 3,500 counties in the U.S. and not one of them is the same as the other. I’ve found a couple of counties that do not even have code enforcement or building departments. Just because a state has a statue does does not mean that a County has to adopt said statue. Code Enforcement is the Supes private money collection arm. I have said this before that WHEN I am elected on the write in box I will do my best to establish a Grand Jury to find out which County ORDINANCES AND CODES DO NOT MEET UP TO THE STANDARDS OF THE LAW OF THE LAND!!! Last but not least. JB: There is a ladder of laws, on the first step is the least lawful (didn’t say valid) and as you step up the ladder the LAW becomes more binding and LAWFUL!!! All the way to the CONSTITUTIONS!!

JB
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JB
3 years ago
Reply to  Poor Farmer

// “What I said is that the State Constitution ( and the U.S. constitution) are the Supreme LAW in the land, everything is subordinate to said LAWS. “//

Yes, but you also said something totally wrong. The fact that County laws are subordinate to State and Federal constitutions doesn’t mean for a single second that all counties must then have the same laws/ordinances/policies as you stated.

There can be (and are) a vast myriad of county laws which vary from county to county and are ALL consistent with State and US Constitution.

Your following statement is simply false.

// “There are 58 counties in California, not all of them have this policy on cannabis as Humboldt does which means it is NOT LAW BUT an ordinance of the supervisors.”//

Supervisors get to make County laws – and they can vary from County to County. The test you apply above (and your conclusion from it) is simply nonsense.

Fog Dog
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Fog Dog
3 years ago

Blackmarket greed, thuggery, and selfish inconsideration have ruined this county. We sold our souls for quick cash and we will have to live our lifetimes dealing with the continued fall out, probably for generations. I wish it was still illegal at least then growers made generally quiet, considerate, and community minded neighbors. I’d hoped with legalization it would be cleaned up, regulated properly, and taxed for the benefit of the community. That just seems like a pipe dream now. Love the plant, but I hate 70% or more of people that now associate themselves with it as part of their identity in this county. They’ve ruined what it once was. Environmentally, culturally, socially. We are hemorrhaging good and talented folks moving away from this area because they are fed up and tired of what it has become. It is sad.

Willow Creeker
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Willow Creeker
3 years ago
Reply to  Fog Dog

I pretty much agree dog dog. But I never thought legalization would help. The old outlaw days were the high point, now everybody from those days are holding on, trying to find a place in the new world, while a younger generation is finding loopholes in the white market to keep doing what the county has always done; selling black market weed to the rest of the country. It’s all dying a slow death, best to make a classy exit (like jerry Seinfeld) while you can and do what you can to make this a nice place to live, instead of letting it devolve into a Wild West zombie land of tweakers and low lives.

HotCoffee
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HotCoffee
3 years ago

I prefer the days of Tony Carver where all you needed were his zip ties.
He would come out himself and look at your 25 plants.

That was before all the pigs came to the trough.

Great conversation …thanks everyone.