Odd, Old News: ‘Kill the Serpent in the Egg.’
Chinatown in Eureka in the 1870’s was situated between E and F and Fourth and Fifth streets. A ghetto of mere huts made of rough lumber, it stood over a filthy swamp that was likened to a cesspool. To the Euro-American eye all manners of vices were practiced there as we shall see in a future Odd Old News post, but until those vices were taken up by whites, little attention was drawn to Chinatown at this time.
The Chinese supplied a cheap labor force for large road construction projects in the county, and many were happy to use them in their homes as menial laborers. Ever present in American History, racial prejudice, in this case against the Chinese, was widespread and virulent, culminating in the first expulsion of the Chinese from Eureka in 1886 after the accidental fatal shooting of a Eureka citizen. Perusing the newspapers of the early 1870’s and ‘80’s one can see the racial animus heating up.
Today’s article gives a window into how the Chinese were viewed in that time, and offers what is perhaps the first warning against drug use in the Humboldt County history.
CAUCASSION FALLING VICTIM TO HEATHEN PRACTICE
Evening Standard
December 17, 1877It may not be generally understood, but it is true that there are in Eureka two opium smoking dens where white persons are supplied with this deadly and fascinating drug, and all the facilities used for smoking it. This practice has existed amongst the Chinese ever since people came here. This fact never attracted much attention because whatever practices they may engage in seldom disturbs anyone. They are exclusive and but little is known of their practices, and no one concerns himself about their vices. If the practice of opium smoking were confined to the Chinese, this article would not be written; but it is not. White people are adopting the practice and white boys occasionally enter these dens; at first from motives of curiosity, and as lookers on merely.
After a time they are induced to try a pipe, and anyone knows with what great avidity Americans seize on any foreign vice, will not need to be told that there is danger in the very existence of these dens in an American city. We learned tobacco smoking from the Indians. We learned absynthe drinking and some other things, which decency forbids the mention of, from the French. Now we are catching the infection of opium smoking from the Chinese.
With thus much premised, we will now be a little more specific. Last night three women, accompanied by a son of respectable citizen of this place, went to China Mary’s for the purpose of smoking opium in this Chinese den. It was easy to imagine what the concomitants must have been. This instance is not singular. There is another place near China Mary’s house, where there is a room fitted up with opium benches, pipes, lamps and all the other means for indulging in the detestable habit. To these two places white people resort continually. There are some persons in town who have some of the first marks of the opium vice plainly stamped on their faces. There will be more unless the evil is corrected, and the remedy cannot be applied too soon.
In San Francisco the vice has become so prevalent that the authorities have found it necessary to enact laws prohibiting the keeping of these opium dens. Laws will not stop the practice, however, when it is once formed. Two things with reference to opium are well established: One is, that a Caucassian brain cannot endure the drug in any form. Another is, that the habit of using it is one which it is almost impossible to shake off when once contracted. To such an extent has the practice become prevalent in San Francisco that some very respectable people have been compelled to put their sons and daughters under actual physical restraint. It is perhaps possible to stop this evil in the beginning, if action is promptly taken in the matter.
The press of the city might do something if it were possible to obtain the names of the persons who frequent these places; but that is very difficult if not impossible. The better plan would be for the authorities to declare opium dens a nuisance, as they have done in San Francisco, and denounce penalties against all who maintain or frequent them. They should be reached in some way. Kill the serpent in the egg.
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🕯🌳Good morning Kym and thank you for that bit of history and proof that it’s been here for along time and not coming from the southern border. Have a nice day.⚖🇺🇸
Get up to speed, Willie Whatever your reasons for not accepting facts concerning THE CURRENT heroin epidemic you have yet to reveal. No one gets it because the truth is just a google search away. Your fantasy Humboldt opium fields don’t exist. Period. And the stuff isn’t coming from China either..
right, they ship fentenyl instead…
LoL. it was imported from India. Pipe dreams my friend, a truly odd delusion.
“And, apparently advocates the death penalty for those operating “drug dens.”” I can only assume you’re referring to “Kill the serpent in the egg”, which should be taken as “dealing with the problem before it starts”, not advocating any actual killing. All it advocates is to “denounce penalties against all who maintain” them.
Bushy, my apologies. That was me adding that last sentence in the intro to David’s piece. I think that likely it was a dog whistle for violence. But, I may be unduly reading more into the sentence at the end of the 1877 article than was meant. So I deleted it.
It’s an old expression, similar to “nip it in the bud”… you can find it in Shakespeare’s Julius Caesar, for example, although of course Brutus did mean actual killing. Hrmm, people blame violent TV for various things, yet there sure was a lot of murder in those old plays! The expression might have originated with one of the biblical tales, although I’ll leave that to someone who actually read any of them.
If anything, that editorial is actually reasonably sane. While the anti-chinese sentiment is obvious, it’s quite accurate in that the problem would be ignored if it wasn’t also affecting white people. Replace opium with heroin, and chinese with homeless, and I’d easily imagine a similar piece being written today… except the serpent has long since hatched.
It’s from Shakespeare.
A more apt saying for current Humboldt would be to “nip it in the bud”
Jinx!
The whole idea of a social “dog whistle” as criticism is shaky at best. The requirement for the term, clever but impossible to defend against, that it is based on the assumed intent of the speaker, which is not in evidence, while the person who hears it get to apply their own internal assumptions without having to justify it. A “dog whistle” fits in the same category as “everyone knows they’re guilty” and “they’re all alike”- it may be true but too often is mistaken to be a useful judgement. The person alleging a “dog whistle” would be better off citing that other evidence that doesn’t rely on assuming others are hearing things they can’t.
It was a dog whistle for violence. The Chinese endured the worst in Eureka. Italians were also dealt with violently, too, even at one point not able to cross a certain street in Eureka or they would face physical attack. My wife knows which street it was. She was Eureka city clerk for years and read the accounts in the historical documents the city has. Unbelievable prejudice backed up by physical assault and murder. But, it’s Eureka, where the soldiers put Native American women and children in a corral at Fort Humboldt and would pick females to rape. Source: Professor Jack Norton’s book: “Genocide in Northwestern California; When All Our Worlds Cried.”
I read it as the serpent being opium addiction…
One of the legacies of the British Empire… the first drug cartel.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars
🕯🌳But it wasn’t the British that brought them over.📡And it’s still coming in to San Francisco and everyone thinks it’s coming from the southern border, funny thing. 👁👁
It does both. No one says otherwise except for those who want to believe that reported criminal activity from south of the border is racist. And those people who insist it being racist justify their thinking by accusing people of not being equally racist about another group. It’s insanity at its most foolish.
Prove it, Willie.
And dont cite busts of small amounts of poppy plants in people’s yards or that killer in Mendocino that had some plants in the bushes.
Let’s see some concrete proof.
Cough it up or stop with the nonsense.
1100#0#(/1110%&%01
He’s sticking with that extremely odd and baseless claim…I can’t figure why he won’t do his own little research to self-cure.
The amount of land to produce opium is large, even larger for Heroin. I think on acre can produce like a kg of opium, by extension on kg produces like an oz of heroin. I wrong on the top of my head but the ratio is just as extreme.
Willy, google how many acres to produce opium….then show us where those thousands of acres are grown in Hayfork.
Yeah, 10s of thousands of acres in Sinaloa, Michoacan can’t be the source, cuz we got a wall.
Saying it wasn’t the British who brought them over doesn’t answer the issue. The British encouraged the spread of opium in China. They along with the French kept the Chinese government from interfering with it. Having created a generation of opium addicts, the addicts themselves came lured like everyone else by the stories of gold in California.
https://youtu.be/7Efs2SDKD94
Another legacy of the British Empire.
Another casualty of the attack on free speech?
Yes indeed – every American needs to be aware that China tried to stop Britain from shipping opium to their shores, and Britain started a war over it. Now, ask yourself why American soldiers are guarding opium fields in Afghanistan…
There is a reasonable argument that the whole reason for removing the Taliban from power was to let the opium flow. In 1999 (edit:2000) the Taliban managed to eliminate most of the poppy production in Afghanistan for a year. The consequence was the elimination of $100 billion in liquid assets from world markets and a mini recession.
It turns out the opium of the masses is not religion, rather, it is opium.
Here’s how the World Bank looks at Afghan opium production [pdf]:
http://documents.worldbank.org/curated/en/158651468767124612/pdf/311490PAPER0AF100SASPR0no051Dec0171.pdf
I have to comment. “The White Brain can’t handle it”, meaning the Chinese brain has been partaking in Opium Dens perhaps for centuries. Therefore, a White persons brain is not accustomed to the constant use of Opium. Is what the statement is elluding to. Historical writings over time have stated that the Chinese have lost everything they own, and their families in Opium Dens, so it shouldn’t have just been a protection of white people.
Lets look at another Drug: Alcohol. In the book “White Mans Wicked Water”, which states what alcohol has done to the American Indian brain, however, there was no care or protection to the American Indian Brain from the Wicked Water that they were not accustomed to. Now on the other hand The White Brain can not handle The Opium so the Chinese should have severe penalties, and even snuffed out when it comes to a White Brain, but when it comes to an American Indian Brain, or Chinese Brain they are worth nothing. “Prejudice at its best”.
So you’re saying that Indians who complain about alcoholism are racist? Of course it’s racist to talk about the “white brain” just as it is racist to constantly assume racism is the sole product of white people. Racism is universal among humans. It’s present in our genes. Duh. If you object to racism, to be but if you object to racism only in white people, why you might be a racist yourself.
https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/politics/article/2123539/no-chinese-why-anti-china-racism-so-big-japan
https://supchina.com/2018/02/23/china-has-no-problem-with-racism-and-thats-a-problem/
You simply can not have a tribe if everyone is accepted. So race is a handy dandy category for separating the in group from the out group. Religion will do, language is always a goody. Accent, names, food preferences, etc. Heck, choices of a pet type will do in a pinch- are you a dog person or a cat person. We all love the easy slur that is a sure fire strike against anyone that irritates us. Or even to strike as one person because another irritated us. “Boss kicks worker, worker kicks spouse, spouse kicks dog.”
A white English member of staff told the inquiry that two Welsh colleagues used a slur when referring to English people: “She was speaking in English and changed to Welsh for that word thinking I wouldn’t understand. I’ve never come across so much racism as when I moved to Wales.” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/23/university-racism-study-criticised-including-anti-white-harassmentr
So now out comes the “poor white people” cliché to dismiss and belittle. Really, if you want to end racism, not just transfer it to another group, you must treat all racism as an evil. If you just want to make the “other” pay, then you support racism.
Well said and absolutely true.
I think, and I could be wrong, that the British brought heroin to China. As far as race, I don’t get it. A racist or any kind of supreme thinking person has all the maladies, and will die, as the rest of us lower humans. And the superior person has to wait in line to get their burger or tofu bowl, even knowing that some people in line ahead of them are considered inferior by them. The superior person gets cancer and AIDS, which to me denies them superiority about themselves. Then, there are cultures which decide who can go on to higher education, based partly on whether or not their hair is black enough for them to move on in their education, or be a factory worker. ALL cultures have their little quirks. Only in America can an individual be free to decide their own destiny, which is why we have so many inventors and advances in medicines and other stuff
I didn’t know the British actually imported the product deliberately but apparently they did. “The problem was that the Chinese would not buy British products in return. They would only sell their goods in exchange for silver, and as a result large amounts of silver were leaving Britain.
In order to stop this, the East India Company and other British merchants began to smuggle Indian opium into China illegally, for which they demanded payment in silver. This was then used to buy tea and other goods. By 1839, opium sales to China paid for the entire tea trade.” https://www.nam.ac.uk/explore/opium-war-1839-1842
I cannot recall the source, but it could very well be from a past article that David Heller may have shared before, but, I had the memory that it was said the Chinese were originally brought up to Humboldt as slaves to work on making roads.
With some references to the China Creek area in Southern Humboldt?
So, did the people come on their own free will to Eureka or after they had been brought here to work?
The Chinese came of their own free will with false promises from people hustling for laborers. Labor laws at the time definitely discriminated against Chinese (they were denied citizenship ) and insured they could only be laborers and servants.
“The Chinese moved to California in large numbers during the California Gold Rush, with 40,400 being recorded as arriving from 1851 to 1860, and again in the 1860s when the Central Pacific Railroad recruited large labor gangs, many on five-year contracts, to build its portion of the Transcontinental Railroad. The Chinese laborers worked out well and thousands more were recruited until the railroad’s completion in 1869. Chinese labor provided the massive labor needed to build the majority of the Central Pacific’s difficult railroad tracks through the Sierra Nevada mountains and across Nevada. The Chinese population rose from 2,716 in 1851 to 63,000 by 1871. In the decade 1861–70, 64,301 were recorded as arriving, followed by 123,201 in 1871–80 and 61,711 in 1881–90. 77% were located in California, with the rest scattered across the West, the South, and New England.[37] Most came from Southern China looking for a better life; escaping a high rate of poverty left after the Taiping Rebellion. This immigration may have been as high as 90% male as most immigrated with the thought of returning home to start a new life. Those that stayed in America faced the lack of suitable Chinese brides as Chinese women were not allowed to emigrate in significant numbers after 1872. As a result, the mostly bachelor communities slowly aged in place with very low Chinese birth rates.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Chinese_Americans#Fields_of_work_for_first_wave_immigrants
You’re obviously a person of intelligence I always enjoy your tidbits of information
Thank you Sir, for your kind words.
I agree- even if we disagree on some policies!
Thank you Willow Creeker. I appreciate the comments.
but they didn’t leave here on their own free will in 1906. here is another photo from HSU with the title in quotes below. within days of the mob squad’s arrival, the Chinese were put in a box car and then ferried to Gunther Island to await shipment out of the area.
“Woodsmen who came to Eureka to oppose the employment of Chinese in Salmon Canneries”
The Joss House in Weaverville is the oldest Chinese (Taoist) Temple in California:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weaverville_Joss_House_State_Historic_Park
Not all of California was intolerant.
ULLR Rover,
We have a Joss house down here in Mendo. According to the last remaining original Chinese family in Mendocino, it was built in the mid-1800’s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_of_Kwan_Tai
BTW, I also enjoy your well informed posts, agree or not.
Thank you sir. I though “Joss” was specific to Weaverville… I was wrong:
“Chinese temples can be found throughout Mainland China and Taiwan, and also where Chinese expatriate communities have settled. An old name in English for Chinese traditional temples is “joss house”.[1] “Joss” is an Anglicized spelling of deus, the Portuguese word for “god”. The term “joss house” was in common use in English in the nineteenth century, for example in North America during frontier times, when joss houses were a common feature of Chinatowns. The name “joss house” describes the environment of worship. Joss sticks, a kind of incense, are burned inside and outside of the temple.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_temple_architecture
A short time after this article there was a scathingly racist editorial in the Evening Standard railing against the Chinese, some of the quotes are very reminiscent of some of today’s anti-immigration views. “The Fourth of July flap-ddodle that America is the home and refuge of the oppressed of all lands is very pretty in theory, but so far as John Chinaman is concerned, it will not do to reduce it to practice.” The writer stated that there were, perhaps, 200,000 Chinese in the state: “The vast majority of these are slaves or coolies of the Six Companies of San Francisco. They are governed by Chinese laws as are the people in the heart of China. Not one of these 200,000 comes to America with the intention of making it his permanent home. It is part of the contract with the Six companies that if a coolie dies here his bones shall be shipped to his native land, and it is a part of creed, that heaven can be reached by no other route than via China. Not one of these creatures can leave this country without the permission of his owners, and to-day a system of slavery prevails among the Chinese in America as absolute as ever was African slavery in the South. While not recognized by our law, it exists in defiance of them, and its decrees are at least tacitly admitted by the Courts of California.” Other parts of the screed are devoted to complaints that they are stealing jobs, and introducing disease (leprosy in this case).
Thanks for that. No doubt, their service was indentured.
“Hell on Wheels” is an excellent series (drama) that is all about the Union Pacific . It covered the Chinese labor, through the Sierra’s, on the Central Pacific extensively.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell_on_Wheels_(TV_series)
Some images from the Chinese labor through Truckee and Donner Summit :
https://www.google.com/search?q=china+wall+truckee&client=tablet-android-verizon&prmd=imnv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiYmvfEiunmAhVKQ80KHeSAATUQ_AUoAXoECA4QAQ&biw=1280&bih=800&dpr=2
Thanks for those, ULLR.
“While a loose alliance, consisting of the Chinatown police, Donaldina Cameron, the courts, and the Chinese community itself tried to stem the tide of the fighting tongs, it was the San Francisco earthquake of 1906 and subsequent fires caused by the earthquake that was the death knell for the tongs at least in San Francisco, as it destroyed the brothels, gambling dens, and opium houses that the criminal organizations had used for the majority of their revenue.” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tong_Wars
Tongs were and are associations of Chinese citizens, some benevolent, some criminal. But all based not only on race but on country of origin. They existed to facilitate Chinese immigrating, establishing themselves in the US and returning to China. The Six Companies were not American businesses- they were famous Tongs from San Francisco. When money was obtained from these Tongs for immigration, that person was required to pay it back. So the “indenture” referred to the money owed the Tongs, not the American businesses for which the Chinese immigrant labored.
However these were not the Tongs that engaged in gang warfare. The referred to article or its readers (without seeing the article it’s impossible to know) has apparently confused the two- a not unlikely confusion as their activities were strictly kept secret. The militant Tongs were spread all over the US and responsible for much violence and subsequent government suppression.
Thank you guest for help with clarifying… I didn’t use enough of the mentioned editorial to show the editor’s knowledge that the Six Companies were Chinese, and convey that point to the readers. It was a very emotional editorial titled “Our Moon Eyed Lepers”… and went downhill from there…
Thanks for this ..history can be a dark exploration along with fascinating information.
I appreciate the information.
I think the information I’m thinking of specifically talks about slaves more than servants or larbors..I may have loaned out my book but if I can dog it up I’ll add it to your information also.
There are many, many articles and historical documents (in a variety of libraries and at Eureka City Hall) that tell the story of the Chinese, who were kicked out of Eureka.
Here is a local synopsis: https://chineseexpulsionhumboldt.weebly.com/the-expulsion.html
North Coast Journal: https://www.northcoastjournal.com/022703/cover0227.html
North Coast Journal: https://www.northcoastjournal.com/humboldt/driven-out-the-fortgotten-war-against-the-chinese/Content?oid=2125863
Wipe Out The Plague college thesis: http://humboldt-dspace.calstate.edu/bitstream/handle/2148/33/Perry.pdf?sequence=1
Longtime historian Carranco’s take on the issue via JSTOR: https://www.jstor.org/stable/3636420?seq=1 (costs $22)
Anderson Valley Advertiser: https://www.theava.com/archives/10696
National Park Service: https://www.nps.gov/parkhistory/online_books/5views/5views3e.htm
Reason: overview of the issue, with Eureka’s infamy noted: https://reason.com/2016/02/17/the-chinese-must-go/
Clarke Museum’s pathetic mention of the infamous expulsion: http://www.clarkemuseum.org/gold-rush.html
Those links give much more depth to the topic–wonderful contributions Mr. Simmons, thank you! And I got the expulsion date wrong– it was 1885, not 1886 as my history-lite preamble stated–I welcome corrections.
I found an interesting document in the Mendocino Historical Society about a group of Chinese who weren’t shipped out, but had marched down the coast in the cold winter rains, a detail that I have never seen used in any of the expulsion accounts.
They made it to Kibesillah where the humanitarian Frank Whipple let the cold, wet, and terrified Chinese stay in his barn. He enlisted women to cook for them, built a big fire and gave them blankets. Judge Whipple’s grand-daughter recalled that on every family birthday, and Chinese holiday, the Chinese showed their eternal gratitude by gifting the Whipples elaborate cakes, and fruitcakes. Many stayed on in the Ft. Bragg area, giving that town the largest Chinese population north of San Francisco.
Thank you Glen, just getting back to this thread and will read the links.
Mary Ellen I never responded to your comment about the Chinese who were employed to build the road out of Garberville to the coast, the origins of the name for China Creek. The job was sub-contracted out to a man named Taylor. These Chinese workers were nicknamed “Taylor’s Oriental Brigade”, and were summarily shipped out of Shelter Cove when the road work was completed in the winter of 1878-9.
Thanks Dave, I know you respond to my other inquiries so no worries.
Thanks for more information. I’m still trying to find the printed material I read. I think it was in some Acedmia papers online.
The more one delves into US history, the more obvious it is that wherevah the “whiteman ” cameth, he brought misery, addiction, racism, slavery and unkindness- not every white man, but definitely the dominant paradigm. And it’s true @ using opium to get the silver back from China.
Before morphine was outlawed in the US, circa the 1920s, everyone was prescribed it for everything- including babies!- to calm them down so Mom could enjoy her morphine.
One big addiction fest after another. Use non-whites as slaves& then give em the boot into poverty& homelessness. Same as it ever was. Sad…
🕯🌳👍🏽☄🥀And now we’re into bioengineering there making here,cheaper and alot less hassle than trying to bring that shit through customs. No headaches. Government been trying to catch them for 20yrs idiot’s. 👁📡
Good thing you’re better than those people.
its a great thing that were have become better than that, hopefully. the history of white man, no matter where you came from, is horrible. you can’t even argue it. here are the same thugs at the rail car above forcing the Chinese into a box car, it looks like they are partying and probably drunk. the headline says it all.
How about the history of the Mongols, who slaughtered 880,000 Muslims in 1256AD. Or Middle eastern people from Persia, from almost 500AD on, had established the slave trade from Janus and Timbuktoo in Western Africa up to Palestine [ the Roman name for that region], and eastward. No white people anywhere. If you were a Blackfoot, and got lost and went into Crow territory, you were enslaved or killed. No white folks around then. If you were a Korean, you were subject to capture and enslavement by the Japanese from the south, and Chinese from the north. No white folks around. Do not single out white people for slavery and other things without including so many other groups of people. And today, the Muslims still are slaving people, there are Mexican and south American slavers also. White folks are the minority. We teach the kids in our freedom schools these things. Blaming whites for your problems is really stupid, considering we are in the minority, and haven’t committed nearly the crimes against humanity as other kinds of people, and in fact have rescued and helped so many around the world. One more thing. The Mongols, led by Ghengis Khan, went into Europe,[white folks land] , and slaughtered hundreds of thousands of white people. When Ghengis died, his remains were taken back to his Mongolian home, and on the way back home, they slaughtered any village or people in a 60 mile wide swath of slaughter. The Mongols told the people. as they were slaughtered, “you are being sent to the afterlife to serve and attend our Ghengis Khan”. They killed white folks until they got to the Middle East, then they continued until they got to a place near Samarkand.
It’s incredible ignorance that reads only western history- and that superficially- to decide that white people are the great evil. At the time in question, China had been ruled for 300 years by the Manchus invaders. Slavery was endemic in China throughout that time. http://theqingdynasty.com/qing-dynasty-social-structure.html
In fact slavery was the dominant social system from prehistory until those awful white people lead the way in abolishing it starting in the 18th century. ”
The practice of human slavery grew as the world became more civilized and organized cities and farms were developed. Sumer or Sumeria is still thought to be the birthplace of slavery, which grew out of Sumer into Greece and other parts of ancient Mesopotamia. The Ancient East, specifically China and India, didn’t adopt the practice of slavery until much later, as late as the Qin Dynasty in 221 BC.
… During this same time period in China, documents show that royals from the Tang Dynasty purchased many European and Jewish slaves. The soldiers and pirates who serve the Tang Dynasty also took countless slaves in raids on Korea, Turkey, Persia and Indonesia as well as thousands of slaves taken from indigenous Aboriginal tribes.
..Some of the first countries to do away with slavery as a practice were located in Western Europe, around 1500. “https://restavekfreedom.org/2018/09/11/the-history-of-slavery/
Kym- why do you find it is acceptable to leave aggressive racist bullshit like the above post while looking for “dog whistles” in which to condemn only the history of white racism? Are you then the arbiter of which race gets to be attacked and which does not?
Guest, I must be doing something right, almost the first comment I read when I got up this morning is yours complaining that I do too much to condemn white racism… And almost the last email I got before I went to bed was complaining that I’m terribly racist because, among other heinous crimes, I allow the word “Nigger” to be used (not as a slur but as a description of someone using a slur.. )
in any case when you asked “are you then the arbiter of which race gets to be attacked and which does not?”. Well, Yes… Actually I am arbitrator of this site and daily have to walk some sort of line in which I get attacked from either side. It’s a fun job. Can I recommend you get your own website and try it?.. .
The fun part is I leave racist bullshit up from a a variety of positions. And some folks notice clearly one side being left up but ignore the others…
Like I said it’s a fun job…
For what it’s worth Kym, I think you do a pretty good job moderating your site. I appreciate the fact that you let ideas that push the envelope to stay up to be evaluated by those who choose to. Thanks you for the work you do.
Thank you. And I appreciate you.
Trying substituting black for white is one good check on whether a complaint about racism is valid. If you would not tolerate that substitution when the original has been tolerated, it raises questions. The idea that as long as the complaints you get are from different directions, everything is fine is pretty thin. In this case a complaint that you tolerated comments like “whiteman ” cameth, he brought misery, addiction, racism, slavery and unkindness” and ” the history of white man, no matter where you came from, is horrible” , which clearly meets the definition of a racial slur, ie “To talk about disparagingly or insultingly”, is not made just fine because some complained you tolerated the word “nigger” in order to discuss its evil. One was an attack against a whole race and the other was a defense against the attack of a whole race.
So, no, it does mean you are not doing something right.
And that flicking off of a valid complaint by commenting “get your own website” is just that – a brush off. Two agendas trying to out-evil each other does not make either of them right. I And it’s is against you own rules- “No slurs–racial, ethnic, gender, political etc”. https://kymkemp.com/2018/05/20/commenting-rules-on-redheaded-blackbelt/
Honestly tho Guest, I don’t believe the comment is a racial slur. It’s a description and opinion of History, and historical references. It may be a racial criticism, but not a slur..The history of genocide committed largely by white people is horrible. That’s not a slur. If you were to say something like those “Cra###’s are Horible.. that would be a slur.
Nonsense. A slur is defined as ” To talk about disparagingly or insultingly. ” it’s not just name calling.
If you would consider a statement like “wherever black people go, he brought crime and violence” racist slur, then those statements about white history are equally racist. They both have a touch of truth but cherry picked truth- crime, slavery, misery etc all come in every group’s history, not one particular race’s history. And to cherry pick facts in order to condemn a race is very racist comments indeed because readers who want to condemn swallow it whole.
I was only referring to US history…of course there are other ” terrorists ” throughout world history. No argument there.
There are definitely alternative meanings to the word Slur.. but what you’re referencing guest is a “racial slur” which is specifically “ a derogatory or insulting term applied to particular group of people.”
Key words ‘Derogatory Term.’
And it’s not racist to Name accurate depictions of history. Whites in America enslave Black people and sent Asians to enternment camps. For example. That’s not rasism, it’s unfortunate and historically accurate. Whites weren’t the only people to commit monstrosities thru out history, that’s also true. But other races involvements do not exuse racial indignities commented by the many (not all, but often) openly racist white settlers in America either. Soo, I am sorry if you feel insulted Guest, but it’s kinda history swinging back and bitting us in the Ass. Karma’s a Bitch..
First, I agree with you that the original comment was racist. Anyone who isn’t clear that all humanity is capable of great evil no matter what their race hasn’t read history deeply.
I rarely however delete those kind of comments whether they’re talking about blacks whites Jews Bulgarian Chinese…. As I’m sure you will remember if you think about it.
Sometimes if I have time, I respond to them. I haven’t been doing a lot of responding lately because my arm hurts and I’m struggling to keep up
So your 11:48 p.m. comment is basically something I might make myself if I had time and energy. Until you get to the last paragraph…
You’re a regular reader, you should know that I leave racist bullshit as you call it in a number of comments. I try to allow people the space to express themselves and learn from other people’s responses to it what’s valid and what isn’t valid about their beliefs.
I don’t understand why you think you have a valid complaint that I only allow the white race to be attacked. So yes… I was brushing off your “valid” complaint. To me, and I want to stress is only my opinion, you are very intelligent and articulate. But you appear to be hyper aware of anytime someone comments in a way you perceive to be hostile to the white race or conservatism. And not able to recall the many times people comment in hostile ways to other races and to liberals.
Please, take an online document and copy and paste the comments here that you see as hostile to the white race and to conservatives on one side. And those hostile to other races and to liberals on the other side. I think you would find there were plenty of both
Word to the wise, Kym: as a journalist, next time you choose to hobble yourself, break a leg.
I’m working on no next time…
Kym- find me one you have let stand without editing where a racist announced that all black (or brown or Asians) are responsible for all the evil in the world without comment from you. Just one. Not a “blacks are more “criminal”, but a “blacks are evil.” Not Mexicans are responsible for illegal drugs supplies in the county, but a “Mexicans are responsible for all the evil throughout history.” Same for any minority- just one. Someone has to have come up with that statement given the inanity of humans. While I can find such attacking whites (or for that matter conservatives), there are none I can find doing the same sweeping assault on anyone else. I can only think you prevented them from appearing. Not the Willie CaosMayhem version of retaliatory picking but the sincerely offered hatred of one race which is left to stand as truth other than white people. Just one.
Somehow you don’t see the problem which makes me suspicious that you see “history” through the same edited version that there were never “Indian Wars”, just genocide. Never white people who died for civil rights of others, just white slave owners. Never conservatives upholding the rights of all individuals, just conservatives suppressing the poor.
Why have a prohibition of “racial slurs or hate speech” if the real goal is not to tolerate only some hate speech? You acknowledge it is hate speech but say it is unbiased. I don’t see that. You may see this as me being “hyper aware of anytime someone comments in a way you perceive to be hostile to the white race or conservatism” ( did you miss any phrase dismissing the issue as my personal defect?) but such thinking is a symptom of the reason Trump got elected, why the Congressmen can not be civil enough to deal with each other, why more hate is being created than civility. You are treating me as Clinton’s infamous deplorables or the comment section Fly Over Zone. While I admit, I treat you as a stand in for the national media responsible for pouring gasoline on the fires of hatred. Because you are the only representative of the media available to me. The difference is that I annoy you while the universal you scares me. I don’t think that anything but disintegration faces a country of disrespect and internal hate.
Look go back and read what for sure said. They didn’t say that white men were responsible for all the evil. To quote, “the more one delves into US history the more obvious it is that wherever the white men came with he brought misery addiction racism slavery and unkindness.”
Specific whiteman did specific evils. But no where did they say that all evil was came from white men.
You are reading into it when you say “a racist announced that all black or brown or Asians are responsible for all the evil in the world.”
this person is not saying that white people are responsible for all the evil in the world. This person is saying that white people caused misery wherever they came in the United States.
Now yes it’s a huge grouping of One race. What about the Quakers that helped slaves escape? What about evil committed by people of other races?
but in no way is this person claiming that white people are responsible for all the evil in the world. That you think it does says something to me about how you think. In my opinion you see wrongs against white people magnified and wrongs against other people minimized .
I get what you’re saying but look at this way: if Kym didn’t let anti-white, anti-western, anti-capitalism sentiment stand then you or I wouldn’t have an opportunity to counter this myopic current flowing through popular, ignorant thought.
Question Ullr,
If we live in THE Western capital of capitol-based economy rooted in a white male power structure, how is it myopic to question/improve/ challenge it?
We are where we are because of questioning, challenging and improving the myopic ideas of past, I would say.
Question it, for sure. I didn’t say it was myopic to question it I said the popular current of the view of western capitalism is myopic and openly questioning it gives opportunity to counter such myopic points of view.
Right on.
All of these offer good reading on this subject, if interested;
https://www.economist.com/open-future/2018/09/18/can-white-people-experience-racism
https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/tv-radio-web/can-you-be-racist-against-white-people-1.3591110?mode=amp
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/08/19/the-fight-to-redefine-racism?verso=true
Actually tho Kym, Honestly.. I don’t like that you allow to use the N word openly in discription either actually. I understand that you get criticism from all around, and sympathize for your position… but I feel like it’s Rashly speaking..
I know you didn’t send the letter.
But for heaven’s sake, being afraid of words is not reasonable. Calling someone a slur is terrible…but being afraid to name things that are terrible leads to not facing them. What’s next? Being afraid to say rape or rapist?
I get what you’re saying, And many websites do not edit slurs, in reference.. Honestly… if someone took a tone, And sent you an email that they felt offended by the open use of a particular derogatory remark, isn’t that worth paying attention to? The blog is very monitored already. And I have seen that term boarder line used in offensive ways, at times.. I am totally white.. maybe it’s not my fight.. but it does strike me when it’s allowed.
It’s not necessarily a “fear” of words, it’s how the words affect others.
Slurs and their neutral counterparts contribute the same thing to what is said by uses of sentences involving them.
And yes, if certain words were being thrown around often and unnecessarily, I would say something..even if it was in reference.
I understand it’s a difficult position, I just do not think the blog would be worse off if you disallowed slurs in reference either.. It is a slippery slope though, because how far does one take it? Would Words like Bitch be banned used in other contex.. like.. life’s a Bitch? But really certain terms absolutely do not have alternating meanings…
SmallFry,
I don’t think you’re aware of how many people send me emails where they are offended by something…. I always pay attention, I almost always respond, but I feel strongly that being afraid of words is ridiculous.
And yes I’d rather be thought a bigot then be actually wrong. And it is wrong to avoid words to describe things. Can anyone explain to me why the term the “n word” is okay to use but “nigger” is not? Both evoke the exact same images but the first term peeks slyly through fingers pretending not to be what it is.
My job is to face the truth, write about ugly things and if I am describing words that can’t be used on this site as slurs such as chink, Hebe, and Nigger…it seems totally absurd to me to be able to say chink and hebe but have to write the “n word”… I refuse to be so silly… So intellectually inconsistent.
Like all humans, I am not perfectly consistent but I try to minimize my inconsistencies.
The phrase should have been “So, no, it does mean you are doing something right”, not “So, no, it does mean you are not doing something right.”
An incredibly ignorant and myopic statement.
To pretend that the whole world, except for the USA and European countries, was a garden of eden with happy go-lucky people dancing carefree is to not know history at all. The history of humankind is brutal. Human chattel was endemic throughout all humans’ history. You’ll be hard pressed to find a group of people who were not under the heel of another group at one time or another.
Worldwide famine, worldwide poverty, and western wars are at a historic low. Western culture and “evil” capitalism has brought more people out of poverty and misery than any system at any time in the known history.
And morphine is a schedule 2 drug. Regulated but still legal.
I was going to make a snarky comment about never leave anything in writing as a reference to the “golden age” fantasies of those groups without written records. But it apparently would not hold true as the Chinese kept the earliest written records and lots of them It’s apparent that records or the lack of them never impede the determined bigot. It comes down to the mobbing mentality like chickens who attack any they consider weak, even their own- a behavior that prevents reason from acting as guidance.
🕯☄Boy do do love hickibilly logic. 📡👁
By embracing absolute ignorance? That seems counter productive.
David Heller, how very timely that you should bring to our attention at this time a bit of history from Eureka’s 4th and E Street corner, for a mere two nights ago, on the evening of January 1 of this new year, I found myself at the corner of 4th and E Streets in Eureka to take this week’s Night Light of the North Coast photo. In this week’s edition a silent bench speaks mutely of people come and gone…
That’s Night Light of the North Coast, coming Monday morning right here at RHBB. (Shameful plug 😉 )
Cool coincidence David, look forward to seeing it.
Chinese were treated horribly in Eureka. Eureka is still a bad word in China.
So were Italians. At one time, Italians couldn’t cross a certain street in Eureka or they would face being beaten up.
I was squinting through microfilm today and came across this: “For Shame.–A Chinaman was walking along the street yesterday quietly and minding his own business, when a man whose name we did not learn, struck him a blow which knocked him from the sidewalk into the mud. This conduct was entirely unprovoked by the Chinaman, so far as those who witnessed it could discover and the outrage was no doubt committed for no other reason than the subject of it was a Chinaman, We have no particular admiration for that race, at least those of them who find their way here, but the majority of them are infinitely superior to such white man as would be guilty of such an unprovoked outrage as that referred to.” Humboldt Times 3/31/76