Forest Service Asking People not to Use National Forest Land as a Cemetery
Press Release from the U.S. Forest Service:
MT SHASTA, Calif. — On August 8 and 12, 2019 the Siskiyou County Sherriff’s Office responded to the discovery of cremated remains found in the upper spring as well as trailhead area at Panther Meadows on Mount Shasta. The Sheriff’s Office documented and removed the remains from the area.
“Panther Meadows is a popular destination on the forest and significant effort has gone into designing trails to protect the sensitive plants and grasses in that area for present and future generations,” said District Ranger Carolyn Napper. “The depositing of cremated remains as well as memorial flowers, gemstones, food, feather, tobacco, and paper in this area known for its unique plant community and sensitive meadow soils can cause significant ecological damage.” Water quality and stream flows can also be adversely impacted by the depositing of cremated remains.
More importantly, maintaining the natural state of the meadows and its water sources is significant to many local tribes that have held these meadows sacred since historic times. They are deeply offended by foreign objects left in the meadows and especially in the water and near the spring. “The tribes have never left offerings and have never used the meadow as a graveyard,” said District Archeologist Leslie Schmidt.
The Shasta-Trinity National Forest asks all visitors to remember that forest lands are not to be used as cemeteries and memorials. However, permits are available from Lassen Volcanic and Crater Lake National Parks for the scattering of loved ones cremated remains on park system lands. The Bureau of Land Management also issues similar permits. Some state parks may allow for the scattering of remains. For specific permit information, please contact the appropriate land management agency.
MT SHASTA, Calif. — On August 8 and 12, 2019 the Siskiyou County Sherriff’s Office responded to the discovery of cremated remains found in the upper spring as well as trailhead area at Panther Meadows on Mount Shasta. The Sheriff’s Office documented and removed the remains from the area.
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I have no skin in the game, but the ecological damage argument is a joke… Charred organic material is all over the shasta trinity forest. Do they remove those and every piece of coyote and deer poop from the forest? Because those have contain almost identical nutrients as ashes, and are surely causing ecological damage too. I would also love to hear how stream flows could be affected by ashes. Water quality, sure, but the actual flow of the water?? I think these kindergarten level scientists just needed some filler for their hyperbole.
If there are so many remains being scattered that ecological destruction is really the issue, the US government has a more serious problem than keeping prairies fixed in time as they want them.
Consideration has to be made for all. There are appropriate places to scatter ashes. I understand the emotional need and desire of the public to scatter their loved ones ashes but it needs to be done in a thoughtful way. I have personally seen and dealt with these activities as a forest worker and it is not nice to have ashes of other peoples loved ones blowing around in the wind Into your eyes and clothes etc. The point of the matter is that we all use these lands and we should be considerate of others. Getting permissions is important. We love to help people get their needs met. We just need to make sure its appropriate.
I agree with MikeyC, it seems the USFS personnel have the mistaken idea the forest belongs to just them and we shouldn’t even cast a shadow over it. And neither do I have any skin in the game but I think this is just silly.
I got some skin in this game. I personally have scattered remains on the forest service. In a spot far more beautiful. And I’ll damn sure do it again if it’s the persons wishes. Don’t leave the container or any trash and there is no problem. Don’t leave the urn, don’t make a plaque. No problem
The title of this story is misleading. USE NATIONAL FOREST LAND AS A CEMETERY sounds like people are packing shovels and actually burying bodies. Haven’t ever heard of anyone taking ashes and spreading them around a cemetery. That’s just weird.
Many ashes are stored in an urn at the cemetery. For instance, my grandmother’s ashes are buried in a cemetery.
They just don’t know what to do with the remains. That’s all they had to say. But they are incapable of being straight up about anything.
The whole mountain is cremated remains!
The title of this article seems to lead us to believe there is more emphasis on the cremated remains in the FS statement than I think the FS really brought out. From reading the full statement they seem to be most bothered by all the ornaments and decorations left along with he ashes than the ashes themselves. But it’s true they first mention the remains.
The ashes from the average person contains millions of toxins, not something you want spread in ourforests.
No they do not. Your cremains (they are not actual ashes in the traditional sense) are almost entirely calcium carbonate. It’s already been said that anything toxic burned or boiled off during the cremation process, and there’s a final sifting of material following the procedure. Your dead body is burned at a temp nearing 2000 degrees. Unless you’re made of titanium or porcelain, toxins are gone. There is more toxins in a dead crab at the bottom of the bay than a cremated animal.
Yeah, but in the spring?! Go drink that!
I don’t see any complaints about the “Viking Funerals” that actually still take place. Right on the water, hasn’t hurt anything yet. Pipe down USFS, you’re too bored.
As a person who stupidly worked for USDA-FS Shasta Trinity National Forest for 30 + years, “yawn” on their mandates. However, the Wintu have requested respect for Mt. Shasta and please stop dumping your people’s cremains on the mountain (my words, not their’s). I respect the Wintu. I will never respect USDA-FS. I had to learn in a very hard way.
https://sacredland.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/SLFP_AR_2015.pdf
USFS. (Sighs). It used to be good. Now it’s a waste of time and money.
It’s just sad that the Forest service thinks that only selected humans should have a place for ceremonial memorials in place of meaning to them.
Now criticize the “many local tribes that have held these meadows sacred since historic times.” Actually, please don’t. Deep sigh.
People have died since “historical times.” Don’t criticize people for daring to die without all their ancestors living in the area 10,000 years.
I somehow don’t see this actually being a problem. Cremated remains aren’t particularly harmful, and probably help provide mineral nutrients to those plants and grasses in the area. Unless people are smothering things by dumping them all in some popular place, it seems like an entirely non-issue. Seriously, affecting stream flows? The amount of loading they add to a stream is probably less than the erosion caused by the person who went and removed them. Also, with how much the native americans whine about their burial grounds, they should respect others’ rights to place their loved ones where they wish and not have them disturbed.
USFS can make a silly claim, and people will ignore it. There’s more ash in your average campfire than a few people returned to the Earth whilst they came from. Better start digging up all those fire pits.
Have you been to Panther Meadows? Have you visited the spring? Have you spoken with the local tribe members about their reverence for the Meadows and the Mountain?
I have. And I carry with me a deep reverence for the place and peoples.
Your casual reply reminds me of that lazy settler who tossed dynamite into a lake a short distance NW of Shasta for some easy fishing, blew a hole in the bottom and drained the lake away. Whoopsie-daisy.
Lol Do you really think these meadows appeared without human activity? Maybe you should interview the person who last scattered cremated remains about your superior empathy.
The dynamite emptied grass lake story is fiction
Wow!! The idea of draining that lake is the best one I’ve heard in a while☺
I can’t help but think about The Dude standing on a bluff above the ocean trying to spread human remains only to have them blown back in his face….
“The Chinaman is not the issue here “.
“Everything is such a travesty with you ,man.”
“Screw it. Let’s go roll, Dude.”
🕯🌳Do you know how the person died? Some people die of things that should not be returned to the earth. But sometimes people want to put people in there most favorite spot or a place they long to go to and never got to. It’s a no win situation for the soul.🛐
Nothing is going to remain after cremation other than non-volatile minerals and a few high-temperature metals… And most of the toxic ones, like mercury and lead, are going to go up the chimney at those temperatures.
🕯🌳I think you need to research that?👍🏽
You should provide it.
🕯🌳Do your own leg work. Boy.
You make the allegation, you offer proof. Otherwise it is not true. And this case, unless the deceased had implanted medical radiation material and the resident radiation safety office failed to remove it after death, there might be an issue if the patient also did not let anyone know which they are required to do. But it is very unlikely to effect anyone after the cremation as most radiating material has already gone up in smoke.
“cremains” or simply “ashes”), which do not constitute a health risk, may be buried or interred in memorial sites or cemeteries, or they may be retained by relatives and dispersed in various ways.
Yep. It’s a misdemeanor not telling where remains were tossed scattered etc. I think…
Not hard to research it, really. The ashes or, cremains actually are mostly calcium carbonate with a trace of salt and potassium. Bodies are burned at a temp of 16-2100f, which will burn or boil off anything but lead, which shouldn’t be in detectable amounts within anyone’s body. Bone fragments and such are pulverized, which gives the look of real ashes. Any metallic implanted sources would be returned to the family, generally. My info source? Same ones you can find in a couple minutes. That and I have relatives that were funeral directors and ran mortuaries.
Calcium carbonate doesn’t hurt the environment unless you’re operating a quarry. It becomes calcium bicarbonate in water, and is a main component of seashells, pearls, snail shells, is found in significant amounts in dark green veggies such as broccoli and kale. It’s also a component of rocks, marble and limestone. I’d say it’s rather beneficial to the Earth. But here we are complaining that it’s harmful and disrespectful.
🕯🌳Thank you for that information.But what if the body was deceased? It can not be publicly disbursed? This why you have to get a permit. Not all decreases are easily burnt off.
What, exactly, are you thinking would be dangerous?
Specifically being a ignoramus, that could be his main concern. That he might pollute the world in is his after life, after his cremation. Actually it’s quite admirable.
Kym objects to personal insults especially ones with no redeeming humor or insight.
Well I would hope they’re deceased. It would be unfortunate to incinerate a living person or animal. Burying entire bodies is another matter, as is burying in urns, and placing the urns in the ground.
We’re all made from stars anyway.
The Winnemum Wintu and other tribes would argue otherwise all you people saying this isn’t an issue. Panther Meadows is a sacred place. If one visits it they should treat it as such and pack out what they bring in. In the past no tribe would even walk on that mountain. To deposit one’s physical remains is not only extremely disrespectful, but also destruction of the People’s property with disgusting deposits, it contains nutrients which affect the local environment carrying capacity significantly beyond what is locally deposited, and no one has the right to trash the place with disregard to others past, present, and future. Would you like someone to throw their ashes or trash on your land because it’s beautiful?
Hear, here! Thank you!
Got it. Only native americans are allowed to decide where should be a burial ground.
Would and have…
Earth is a sacred place for which modern humans have zero respect. Ashes to ashes. Get over your prissy selves.
I’m sorry but I have to agree with the majority I don’t see a scattering someone’s ashes a lot of people want to scatter the relative’s ashes places are important to them I know a lot of people have done it I don’t see that I think it’s silly
The real issue here is people are not well educated on scattering of ashes. They dump a bag or container in a waterway or do some sort of impromptu burial with the identification tag still in the package. The plastic or whatever else gets found with an id tag makes this identifiable remains. The agency is then obligated to try and find next of kin to return or at least dispose of remains (a person of sorts) in a respectful and dignified manner. If relatives don’t make this mistake they may still feel compelled to erect memorials or leave objects or substances as tribute. This may be a sweet notion and well intentioned but environmentally it’s still refuse.
You stating a paragraph like it is fact is typical of someone who just likes to argue or defend a stance that really is stupid to begin with. There is more trash left from campers, hunters and Hikers in the national forest than anyone ever has left scattering ashes. And its National Forest meaning it belongs to all of us not just the Forest Service even though they think differently on the subject. I do not buy anything they say just like the illegal pot propaganda causing all this environmental harm when 99% of the stuff mentioned is sold at a local feed or hardware store and the fertilizers they are always mentioning most people use on their roses…its just propaganda and annoying. And whats better is now the headlines always say the Illegal grows because somehow the people who paid the fees for a permit are not causing any environmental harm using the same stuff as the ILLEGAL GROWER. Don’t buy the shit they say. its all about $ and that’s that!
Remains IN the upper springs? That might have been the problem. Or at least what caught someone’s eye.
This is what I assumed, and which fueled my extreme reaction. I love visiting that spring!
There are plenty of other places on that mountain I’d have zero problem with people scattering ashes of their departed loved ones (e.g. Horse Camp). As someone pointed out, the whole Mountain is covered in ash. And I’ve collected the purest ash-filtered raw water many times from the lava tubes at the base of Mt. Shasta. It’s the best! (But of course, I refer to volcanic ash, not someone’s cremated remains).
The real problem is, Panther Meadows is just too dang close to the top (end) of the road. It’s where people drive to, then park to dump their Mom’s & Pop’s & beloved pet’s remains while enjoying the fresh air and lovely view.
That’s kind of the thing. For whatever reason it has to be THAT exact spot, while there are 10 million equally aesthetically pleasing spots to have a moment of remembrance.
Well, that doesn’t seem to fare too well for their politically charged ‘open borders!’ chant.
The Constitution told the Feds they can only ‘own’ 10sq miles for their home base, now called DC. All other acquired properties must be in relation to the delegated and defined duties expressed precisely in the Constitution.
Any law, act, treatie, etc that is not in keeping with the constitution is repugnant to the constitution and is to be considered null and void.
With that said, I think it’s safe to assume that it’s a good thing the ‘open borders!’ Trotsky’s didn’t win the election.
Labeled boxes of people are only good for political purposes. Once they are no longer needed for those political purposes, things go down hill real fast.
Get up out of that box! Don’t it make you feel better?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ai_ClT0y8Lc
Panther meadow is very small and really over used and crap is left all over the place near the spring. The spring is tiny and some people drink from it. I used to love going there but it’s gotten very crowded. It’s not quite the same.
I doubt if anyone really cares if cremated remains are left discretely in larger forested areas, but when you get a lot of very personal stuff left in a small area it does disturb your peace. I’d be grossed out to see a pile of cremation remains in that small spring. Or in the big spring near Mt Shasta City where people fill up drinking water jugs. Kinda of like graffiti on a natural monument. How selfish and rude. Right in the spring!
“Sacred” is a made up word (like “sin”). It only applies to those with some deluded belief in otherworldly rewards or punishments. These made up terms are quite hazardous and useful to those trying to tell you what you can and cannot do.
When your dead, you are not going to have the option nor care a rat’s ass where your meat suit gets tossed. If you are my father and you request I haul your insignificant bones up to your favorite view point, my answer is “…uh, yes. I took them up there and, uh, yeah. They’re there. On white people’s portion of that…uh, no. He’s still on the mantle”.
“All words are made up”
You are not everyone. In fact hardly anyone. If it gives someone comfort to place ashes in a location of beauty that the person enjoyed while alive, so be it. It’s a way of honoring, of valuing that person and gives some solace to the survivors. Relying on someone to carry out the person’s wishes might have given that person some comfort too while they are alive.
If you want to piss on delusions that people have that are much more selfish and infinitely more damaging, make belittling remarks about alcohol or recreational drug consumption, which only provides an illusion of well being by paralyzing the parts of the brain that know damn well that it only makes life worse.
Of course I am not everyone and probably closer to being ‘hardly anyone’ as you casually assert as some hollow jab. You certainly then must be much more than I but I’m not here to debate your ‘youness’.
Religion (faith) is far more damaging to the human race than the red herrings you readily threw about.
Yet I’ll give you alcohol. Recreational drugs not so much. When was the last time a bag of weed told you to go kill everyone in the neighboring tribe or mutilate the genitals of baby boys?
Sin, honor, sacred…made up words. Just go and try and ‘celebrate diversity’. What exactly would you be doing and how?
My angle here is to call out bigotry and racism, even when smuggled through customs under the BS guise of death wishes or Native American suppression.
You just have to get a permit. Even in death after being burnt to a pile of ashes you still need a permit.
😂
😆😆😆😆
~please show me the word “permit” in the Constitution. Otherwise . . .
Love all the angry white indignation. Pathetic. Pour your dead granny down the sewer drain. Too much destruction done to the earth already. Freaking arrogance is what this is. Colonialism by charred remains. Sounds sick to me.
Sounds like the racist who can’t even share space with anpnother race after death. Or more likely a troll.
Down the drain so they can end up in the ocean..[edit] I sure hope you dont have a car, a home or clothes for that matter. But then again im sure you do, you just dont want anyone else to have them. Dont cut a tree cuz i already have my wood house. Gotta love a hypocrite.
Quite impressive how you can ‘see’ skin color behind these comments, Juan.
Might I presume you are of the darker, more Sinaloa tone from south of our shared border?
And if all these commenters are white, what does that say about your argument? Are white people supposed to run off and hide, snuggling their ‘white privilege’?
A privilege that built the internet, computers and facilitates your opinions being published.
Comment here have been interesting. Thanks, all. I’m not sure what to think.
We dump ashes in the ocean– lots of them. I guess it’s a big ocean and no one minds.
I asked an ex-Disneyland employee once what was the strangest thing he’s seen while working there (current employees can’t touch any conversation with the public that is negative, gross or unseemly). He said a group honoring their deceased loved one asked if he could stop the boat halfway through the Pirates of Caribbean ride so they could reflect for a moment on their loved one’s most favorite place. So he did. They got out of the boat and took the liberty of sprinkling his ashes about. It happens. Maybe in more places than we possibly think.
Maybe I don’t mind a few ashes at Panther Meadows. Unless there’s a lot of them blowing about.
HERES THE REAL PROBLEM WITH PANTHER SPRING — CRYSTAL GEYSER WATER COMPANY IS SAPPING ALL THE WATER OUT OF THE MOUNTAIN — THE SPRING DRIED UP ONE YEAR — THE WINTUS BLAMED CRYSTAL GEYSER — NO ONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD PUT CREMAINS IN THE SPRING — THATS JUST — NASTY ..
We need to establish a tiny house village in panther meadows for the houseless of Eureka.
Everybody deserves a house, and panther meadows seems like perfect habitat for the mentally ill to find themselves.
Also, I know a lot of the refugees fleeing the violence and tribulation of their homelands. They would love to have apartments built for them in panther meadows region.
We need to celebrate immigration, this is a nation of immigrants!
The Statue of Liberty is a symbol to all the world and a reminder to us in America. We need apartments on national forest land to house the needy of Zimbabwe and or Venezuela! it’s what the founding fathers would have wanted when the slaves immigrated here!
get it right it is not about the remains or anything other than the money the forrest service did not get paid in form of permit fees for such things . they want their money dammit.
Thank you, Antichrist.
Good catch! Much like a few years ago when they tried to charge people for taking pictures of the views.
That is the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard from the Forest Service that I’ve ever heard
Someone should remind them that disturbing human graves is morally wrong
They should read their code of conduct and follow it
If they did they would have a better idea of what they are taking responsibility for
I got a hunch that 9 out of 10 never have seen it or read it
Who makes these decisions and to what authority
They wonder why we call them the forest circus.
Forest Service protects the forest not people. They do not want people in the forest, dead or alive.
To be clear, I am not representing the official opinion of the Forest Service. The concern with spreading ashes on USFS lands is multifaceted, and all of the issues have or will inevitably arise at some time or another. First, the USDA does need to clarify their definition of graves and monuments. The regulations that are used to prohibit ash spreading relate to special use permitting and establishment of a perpetual use of the forest. Any memorial placed on Forest Service land with a permit then becomes property of the Forest Service, who then is required to use American tax dollars to protect and maintain the memorial. That is a perpetual use of the Forest. I can understand the frustration in this regard with cremains.
Additionally, having a memorial in a traditional religious property used by Native Americans can potentially violate the American Indian Religious Freedom Act, if the memorial interferes in any way with access to or traditional use of a sacred site. One must look at it from a Native American perspective. If the tribes’ spiritual beliefs include NOT buying human remains or spreading ashes on a sacred site, then the Forest Service has just violated the law by allowing it at that specific site. It doesn’t matter if it makes no sense to a Euroamerican sensibility–it’s the law.
In addition to that, spreading ashes on an archeological resource can qualify as altering an archeological resource under the Archeological Resources Protection Act. It adds material to the site that could interfere with its interpretation and study. It is the USFS’s responsibility to prevent this from occurring and to investigate and prosecute any violations.
Likewise, the spreading of ashes may in some cases constitute an adverse effect to historic properties under the National Historic Preservation Act. While there are no criminal or civil penalties to the public under this law, the Forest Service would be required to assess the nature and extent of the adverse effects, if any.
In closing, it does seem reasonable for the USFS to clarify their policy on scattering ashes, but they still will need to abide by AIRFA, ARPA, and NHPA. One way to think about it is that AIRFA and ARPA violations, as well as adverse effects as defined in the NHPA, will require that our tax dollars be used to deal with the violations.