‘False and Misleading’ Cost Estimates on Measure K ‘Sabotaged the Democratic Process’, Says Proponent in Letter to the Editor

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Letter to the editor

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To the Board of Supervisors, the County Administrative Office, and representatives of the local media:Earlier this week I learned that a local union refused an endorsement of Measure K due to the misinformation from the County pertaining to the projected costs of Measure K. This is a very unfortunate situation as

false and misleading cost “estimates” which were allowed to be presented on County letterhead have effectively undermined the quality of public discourse

  and in doing so, whether by negligence or design, has sabotaged the democratic process. If a union’s endorsement process was misled by the misinformation, there must be voters who are submitting their mail-in ballots as I type who have incorporated that misinformation into their voting decisions despite the corrective follow-up stories in the Times Standard and our campaign’s efforts to correct the record.

This is a very serious matter and the County Administrative Office and the Board of Supervisors have done voters a huge disservice. I understand that the County has terminated the employee who authored the report. I am sorry for this development and I can only guess at the reasons, but the timing is hard to disregard as coincidence. The author is not the only one who should take some responsibility. The numbers were presented to the Board of Supervisors and only one Supervisor asked questions which were intended to ascertain their basis. The questions went pretty much unanswered and the numbers were presented to the public and media as if they were based on fact. The author subsequently admitted to the Times Standard that the figures were arbitrary, but the damage to the discussion of the merits of Measure K had been done.

Again, in early September The County Administrative Office, acting on request of the Board of Supervisors, issued a report on projected costs of Measure K which contained estimates outrageously high and completely lacking in supportive details. Usually such an analysis includes discussion of offsets, but apparently Measure K is the only Measure or Proposition in history with huge costs and absolutely no savings.

I personally first learned that the costs would be on the BOS agenda on Labor Day afternoon, the day before the meeting of the presentation. But we on the Yes on Measure K Committee were unable to adjust our work schedules on such short notice. Unfortunately, we had not anticipated such a one-sided analysis or we would have been checking the agendas posted online every Friday. I was in a supermarket when a friend sent me a link to the report, which had already been posted on an online forum. One Supervisor contacted me and, in a scramble, I came up with some questions he could ask – questions which were not really answered.

The report was made with wild estimates of the staff hour costs for the Sheriff’s Office taking up nearly half of the projected costs – $85,000 to $130,000 to “track and monitor.” As one of the authors of the Measure I was extremely confused. I would later read in the Times Standard report that the Sheriff reported that he would be required to “track and report” all ICE activities in the County. I later viewed the video of the BOS meeting where the Sheriff said that he might have to dedicate one or two deputies to handle that requirement. I am assuming that the Sheriff is confusing the Measure K provisions with something else because there is no such requirement in Measure K.

The following is what is required of the Sheriff’s Office.

“By no later than July 1, 2019, the Sheriff and Juvenile Probation Officer shall each provide to the Board of Supervisors a written report stating the number of detentions that were solely based on civil immigration detainers (if any) during the first six months following the effective date of this Chapter, and detailing the rationale behind each of those civil immigration detainers. Thereafter, the Sheriff and Juvenile Probation Officer shall each submit a written report to the Board of Supervisors, by January 1st and July 1st of each year, addressing the following issues for the time period covered by the report:

(a) a description of all communications received from the Federal agency charged with enforcement of the Federal immigration law, including but not limited to the number of civil immigration detainers, notification requests, or other types of communications.

(b) a description of any communications the Department made to the Federal agency charged with enforcement of the Federal immigration law, including but not limited to any Department’s responses to inquires as described herein.”

That’s it. He has to log communications to and from ICE and type up semi-annual reports on them. $130,000?

We have already submitted writings to the various local print media and on radio with more detailed responses to the report. The author of the report subsequently admitted to the Times Standard that he pulled his figures out of the air with some vague “baseline.” I am not going to go through each item on the report. We in the Measure K campaign have done that in various forums. It would have been nice to have spent more time discussing immigration policy and the merits of the measure itself, but we have been forced to spend much of our time responding to the report.

At the BOS hearing, County Counsel stated that some of their cost projections were based upon anticipated lawsuits for those wrongfully deported (Measure K excludes any new basis for actions for monetary damages- something County Counsel neglected to mention) or disgruntled employees following discipline for somehow failing to respect the very basic provisions of the Measure. Nothing was mentioned of Measure K’s assurance that the County would avoid lawsuits with parents over child custody. Or wrongful detention lawsuits.

And nothing was mentioned of savings in avoiding the training necessary for federal/local joint legal task forces.

But the problem with the report is even more fundamental in its very structure. I am told that the County Administrative Office is working on revised more accurate report. I hope it provides details rather than vague categories of “training” or “tracking and reporting” which led to supervisors making statements during the meeting and to the media talking about all the “training” which would be needed to help 2000 county employees learn how to not call ICE. Or speak to a supervisor before calling ICE. For the vast majority of County employees, if they have read this paragraph they are now adequately “trained.”

In the aftermath of the report, the campaign consulted the Asian Law Caucus for understanding. We presented the report, the media coverage, and the text of the Measure itself. They, like us, were shocked at the magnitude of the misinformation, and they explained how a ballot measure analysis should be analyzed for cost. You don’t just throw a bunch of vague general categories into a list of the departments and assign arbitrary numbers to each. What you do is dissect the actual proposed ordinance to isolate each of the tasks the Measure would require County government to perform. And then you list the costs associated with each task, perhaps consulting each department or agency involved. This way you do not have a report which makes it to the media with made up tasks and requirements and you have presented something which could actually be analyzed so a reader knows what the numbers mean, or at least have a reasonable understanding of them. I have attached their analysis to this email. Please let me know if you cannot access it.

I am not representing the Asian Law Caucus as unbiased. They support the goals of the Sanctuary Movement. I am not asking you to accept their analysis without skepticism, although I believe they are accurate and that the actual costs of Measure K would be minimal. But I challenge the County to project different costs for each listed requirement/government task under Measure K. Perhaps there are hidden costs in the form of state requirements which are triggered by elements of Measure K? If so, please be specific and thorough so that voters can be informed rather than manipulated, even inadvertently. I will give everyone involved in the report the benefit of the doubt that the falsities were unintentional, but it sure felt like a cluster expletive so I hope they will learn from the experience.

And I urge the local media to dig a little deeper. Again, the Times Standard has published a couple of articles which have corrected most of the record for anyone reading them, but this was a clear case of misinformation making it half way around the world before the truth could get its sneakers on. I don’t know that the damage can be undone as many people have already voted. But I am hoping that the County will endeavor from this point on to be specific and detailed in analysis, and more balanced in its considerations, when involving itself in an election campaign even indirectly.

Thank you for considering my words. Please do not hesitate to contact the Yes on Measure K campaign if you have further questions.

Eric V. Kirk

Eureka, California

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155 comments

  • On the way to economic failure.

    The board of supervisors is only interested in extorting there constitutes and stealing property.if there’s no large sums of money for them to grab they simply aren’t interested.how dare somebody ask them to do something morally rite for the residents legal or not.

    • You’re talking about the abatement letters? I do remember certain supervisors talking about “the reality on the ground.” That phrase does seem to have fallen out of vogue.

    • Hey Kirk, the presidents of both Guatamala and Honduras just said this caravan trying to come here is politically driven. That the illegal caravan has violated their borders, and their laws. They are enforcing their immigration laws, as we must also. They also said they have caught ISIS thugs, and they have taken guns from them, and they have taken lots of drugs. These people are being funded by the George Soros’s and the commie libs. Also, where are these people shitting? Is this environmentally good? Lot’s of poison turds on the trail? Who feeds them? Evil people do. This info from the countries of origin , not conservative news sites. To quote a Maxine, we do not want your kind here. We need to push you out, make you leave, just like Maxine told democrats to do against republicans. It works both ways, we want you out. Like how that sounds? We teach all the kids in our freedom schools about people like you, who hurt their parents by supporting such high taxes. They learn that this state gives away $25 billion a year, taken from their parents in the form of very high taxes, and given to illegals who do not belong here. They learn how much of their parent’s money they could be benefiting from, but the state steals it from them. That is why we teach them how to live without paying taxes, so they do not support evil democrats and their stupid policies. We have the Zenyab Al-Harith freedom school, Zenyab was the Jewish woman who killed Mohammed. Our hero. We debrief the kids from their indoctrination centers, [public schools], teach them the truth. There are thousands of these schools all over the US and this state. All students, when exposed to the truth, embrace the conservative life, they see it as superior to the left. Our schools are teaching the democrats right out of office, we teach our children well. We use your writing as an example of failure in thought, unable to grasp the American genetic, and how we think. To bad. Q 17

  • A rep for Measure K states in the Times, “Measure K will make it easier for everyone to do their jobs,” Phillips contested in response. “We’re talking to sheriffs up from Merced County and other places where they’ve passed local sanctuary laws. They’ve seen crime decrease.”

    Eric Kirk, who are those sheriffs and where are those places where your campaign volunteer claims they’re crediting sanctuary measures on a decrease in crime? The statement is bullshit.

    Also, when you first proposed Measure K, before the sheriff presented his cost estimate, you claimed the ordinance would save the county money from potential lawsuits. When asked, repeatedly, to provide examples of such lawsuits, you could not. Then your claim of savings became directly related to the sheriff’s cost estimate, which is in fact based on the same worst case scenario your savings claim represents.

    Being that you’re calling foul on the sheriff, can you see that you’re not being very forthright, either?

    • It’s pretty hard to identify lawsuits which haven’t happened yet and will never happen if it’s passed. What we do is remove the potential for such lawsuits. I would have thought that would be common sense.

      • He said “examples of such lawsuits”
        Got any?

      • A lawyer removing the potential for lawsuits is the definition of a oxymoron. it’s almost the equivalent of members of congress passing a law that says you actually have to work to collect a government salary.

        • Low skilled white people selling meth and on welfare..................................

          Exactly why we need Mexicans. Most white people won’t work minimum wage jobs. See any white people picking crab, working oyster beds, making up motel rooms, milking cows, washing dishes, bussing tables? When it comes to a work ethic no one beats a Mexican worker. No one!!

          • Somewhat true. I have some respect for that work ethic, which tends to disappear with the next generation. But that is part of the ugliness that happens when a society turns over its work to non citizens. Few people really need a lot of that kind of work. Restaurants, motels, janitorial services, landscaping, etc- all are luxuries. They aren’t necessities at all, but are kept cheap enough through imported labor that a lot of people can indulge themselves with having others do what they can do for themselves.

            If people were forced to pay good wage for work, that work would be respected more, more citizens would take it up and this society would not be so self indulgent and materialistic. HSU, for example, has no trouble hiring landscapers or maintance workers from citizens because they pay a decent wage with benefits. That is creates a much healthier citizenry. And that is one thing that illegal immigration short circuits.

          • That’s right we need more illegal immigrants so we can pay them shit and make them work jobs nobody else wants too…

        • haha good one

      • There are a lot of things hard to identify which haven’t happened yet. Like how many illegal immigrants are going to be illegally housed in our city, as are the ones that hide in a trailer across the street from me. How many of them are going to sell dope to our kids and seduce the underage girls, like the illegals in the trailer across the street from me? How many of them will use false identities to collect benefits? How many will drive with no insurance? How many will threaten my life when I go gold panning next year and stumble onto their water intake from the creek? Oh, I could go on and on, based on personal experiences. I don’t have any respect for lawyers who advocate the demise of the constitution. None! There’s something not right upstairs with people like that. I only needed a lawyer once, and I picked one that was patriotic and almost never lost a case. A tall lanky, pale, dark haired fellow, that cost me a bundle but got the job done. Turned out the guy was also a coke snorting, cross dressing pool hustler. Wonder what kinda weird stuff Kirk is into, ’cause this guy definitely has a screw loose.

        • I can’t speak to his extracurricular activities but I do know he will tell a judge false information for his clients in court. But I think that is standard for lawyers these days, but it does make me skeptical of any agenda he is pushing as he will spread falsehoods for money.

        • I asked GPA why they had Zero claims in HumCo years ago. They didn’t want to send anyone to pan in what they heard were boobytrapped grow zones.

        • I can’t speak to the trailer across the street, but I can speak to the business owners, workers, parents, children, and church goers who are undocumented, most of whom are warm productive members of the community.

          • try being a legal documented productive member of society, that’s all we citizens are asking, it’s that simple. quit clouding the issue.

            • So easy to be righteous about that, until you actually learn something about the process and cost.

              • Easy to be righteous about gutting laws while thinking yourself safely the master of them. If you think there should be more egalitarian immigration rules then advocate for change or pay the bills for someone. Advocating for violating the law makes being an officer of the court a personal tool, not a calling.

          • So because you hang with nice immigrant business owners,you can generalize a race.
            I know some nice white folks,but I would not bet my chips on the entire group.

          • Not a criminal attorney then. Because you would have contact with plenty who are not so fine too.

  • The real question is, do you want to harbor illegals or not… I bet those waiting patiently in line legally say no as do I.

    • The response is that they are here, in the millions. You can moralize about how they came here and why, and we can have some interesting discussions about whether any one of us would do exactly the same thing in their shoes when it comes to the future for their families, but the fact of the matter is that they are here and we have to figure out how we are going to function as communities in which they are here in large numbers. That is what Measure K is about.

      • Nope measure k is about harboring illegals and not reporting them to the appropriate officials.. Now you moralize all you want.. Fill out the proper paper work and become a legal citizen whats the problem with that…..

        • wish it was that easy

          “filling out the paper work” is not as easy as it sounds. It can take years, and you can get detained suddenly during the process. If it was easy to fill out the paper work and get fairly processed, good hard working folks would do it that way. the only people then crossing the border illegally would be the drug mule commandos. Now, with no real practical “legal” way, you have everybody, good and bad in the border mix.
          The Sanctuary bill just means somebody SUSPECTED of being here illegally won’t be turned in AUTOMATICALLY, if they simply go the Courthouse, report a crime, or get a broken tailight. If they do a crime, and go to jail, ICE can show up any time they want. “Harboring” is an inaccurate word for the situation. If your preferreed news source uses innacurate or misleading terms… they may be out to deceive you.

        • The main problem is that our war on drugs has destroyed normal civil life in much of Mexico. Blaming the victims of that process is about as useful as blaming cancer patients for growing tumors.

          • Blame this or blame that, the cause is not the question. The question, boiled down to its most basic is:

            1. Should there be immigration laws or should we just open the gate and allow anyone to enter?
            2. Should the laws on the books be inforced or should people just do what they will?

            Anything else is just emotion, smoke and mirrors, and BS.

            • They’re not going to stop coming until their country is livable. ICE is a complete waste of money, much like the war on drugs and the phantom border wall.

              • They’re not going to stop coming until there is no profit in doing so. So every employer of an illegal, whether for business or personal use, should be responsible for all costs related to them- all unpaid taxes, all medical care required, all costs of border screening, all costs of schools, all costs of incareration, etc. Fine the heck out of them enough that using illegal labor becomes more of a burden than hiring legal employees. That’s what works for many other countries.

                Immigrant’s home countries can not be made liveable by outsiders. It their home to clean. Of course if Americans would not be much in love with drugs, the income that supports so much lawlessness and corruption here and elsewhere would go away.

                The typical response is making all drugs legal, but then somehow, magically, government then has the obligation to ensure safety of these unlimited drugs, provide treatment and support for those who abuse them and don’t work, while the source of income to do this comes from rich corporations who abuse humanity by making profits, who in the fondness for globalization just move else where taxes can be avoided. Yeah like that works.

              • Let’s say you were a kid sitting in front of a big ass Cookie Jar full of your favorite cookies. If there is nobody there to stop you, would you keep eating the cookies until they were all gone?
                Now then, let’s say you have that same big ass jar of cookies but you know if your mommy catchy you eating cookies without earning them she would whoop your ass. Would you still eat all the cookies or would you at least be a little more cautious while doing so. There are several hundred million guns in this country, we obviously can’t stop people shooting each other with them. I say we just don’t have any gun laws…. there are over 250,000 cases of rape or attempted rape reported to police each year.Yet only a small fraction of those people are ever caught. Since we obviously cannot stop rape we should just make rape legal right?

                I’m a strong believer that this country has too many laws on the books, a lot of redundant laws, but some laws are necessary. And I believe having a secure border is much like having a good lock on your front door. It is necessary to protect what is yours because there are people in this world that want nothing more than to take what is yours, especially when it’s easier then getting it for themselves.

                • “…there are people in this world that want nothing more than to take what is yours, especially when it’s easier then getting it for themselves”.
                  Interesting viewpoint. Because that is exactly what European colonists did to the Indigenous people. And now they are afraid the same thing will happen to them. Irony don’t you think?

            • I imagine the same questions were asked about the Jim Crow laws. A law is a law after all.

              Any law which so fundamentally defies human nature is doomed to failure. Tens of millions in the country against that law is direct evidence of failure.

              • Direct evidence of the failure to enforce the law. Just because the greed and arrogance of the public won’t eliminate cheap illegal labor in preference for a well paid and independent work force capable of looking out for its own interests. So your idea of immigration laws being against human nature is true if you are talking about greedy people seeking cheap labor. Doesn’t make them virtuous to ride the coattails of those who think themselves virtuous by welcoming everyone.

                That dragging of irrelevant Jim Crow laws is a tactic of emotional blackmail. In fact Jim Crow laws were supported by greedy people in suppressing a group of people to keep their cheap labor. It has more in common with the refusal of government to protect American workers by not enforcing laws than it would if they actually enforced the laws.

              • Kirt, it’s funny you would use the Jim Crow laws as an example. Most of the arguments I hear for pro illegal immigration is because we need laborers that will work for less and in worse conditions then United States citizensn and that prices for produce and the like would Skyrocket without slave labor… LOL. By the way, how many refugees or immigrants do you sponsor? The process of Entry is a lot easier for people that have sponsors willing to house and feed them and find them work. I’m sure a few of them could help you out with your Law Firm.

          • mexico’s corrupt government is responsible for their problems

        • 21 year wait for most Mexicans. That’s the problem with that.

          • the reason it is a 21 year wait is because so many came here illeaglly. there is only so many spots from each country. someone jumps in line they should be sent to the very back of it. not allowed or protected . not only is that the polite way of doing things it is also the fair way.
            it is strange that those who break laws want laws to protect them after breaking them. what is even worse is that those that follow the laws are supposed to be ok with the breakers but not only ok we are supposed to pay for them as well? come one guy what reality do you live in.
            should someone kill someone then demand that because the person they killed wasnt following the law they should not be arrested and tried ? i know differant law but same principle. we havent even looked at what lose of life has occured because someone jumped in front of someone else in line ….aybe we should try to and if indeed we find a death should the line jumper be held responsible for that death ? just asking you who seems to support such actions

            • The people “line-jumping” are fleeing a Narco war more violent than Iraq. They are refugees.

              • and others are fleeing something just as bad if not worse. tell me how much of the world have you truely traveled seen with your own eyes ? i can tell you i personally have witnessed thinga that not onlybwould turn your stomach but cause you to lose sleep for the rest of your life . the only reason we dont have it as bad as others is that we jave rules and laws and we have might to keep these sort of things from happening. might in the right to own guns . might in the fact we have the strongestmilitary in the world. might in tje fact thatwe refuse to become like the rest. these refugees arent fighting for their country . no they ran… and expect others to fight and pay for them. why should we send our sons daighters fathers mothers sisters brothers to fight when they themselves gave up ?those who decide to take the easy way will have to deal with what that means. my family has had a member in the military since the begaining of ww2 till present. fighting for peace here at home peace abroad. some say that it is just a military machine. yet having served having played active role in stopping genocides personally i say they are wrong. 140k largely women and children died because of who they prayed to and no other reason in just 6 months time. yes i played a part in stopping that. and yes i am proud of it. tell me do you jave the guts to wear the uniform and seeing for yourself or will you just monday morning quarter back hearing yourself talk ?

          • so what, others are waiting and doing it legally

        • Eric has a propensity to overlook the law, so he just won’t get your point. When I took my oath I solemnly swore that I will support the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of California. As much as I would love to support anyone here illegally, including the numerous cool people I have met, it is against the US Constitution.
          As Eric knows, when the Feds occupy a field, as with immigration, the Supremacy Clause prevails…in layman’s terms, the California Constitution doesn’t mean $hit.

          After growing up in a foreign third world country myself, I can assure anyone who doesn’t know, the predominant characteristic that all of the citizens had was a propensity to overlook laws and cheat in every way possible. This is exactly what our illegal friends are doing here, with Eric’s help I may add. From unauthorized entry or failure to renew visas, fraud against the government and taxpayers, overuse of welfare and medical benefits, and the lower percent of serious criminal acts including, but not limited to, burglary, arson, rape, robbery, kidnapping, and murder. Look at the fine gentleman in court right now for murdering and burning two individuals. This is the unintended results of something like measure K, or sanctuary cities if you will.

          To address his concern, as to what do we do now…well I can tell you what we don’t do! No action should be taken that perpetuates circumventing our laws. That is what third world people do, and it has a snowball result in 10-15 years time. Eric doesn’t know this because he did not grow up with it all around him. I suggest we follow the law. My family had to leave the country I was in every year to renew our visas. We didn’t dare break the law because we are Americans, and that is what makes our society so prolific. Notice all the social instability lately? Notice all the third world people moving here and skirting our laws? Notice how many Americans now choose which law they want to follow? Notice that we have attorneys blatantly and publicly doing the opposite of “solemnly swearing that I will support the Constitution of the United States.” Third world country, here we come…thanks Eric!

          I truly wish you could use your logic rather than heart here. I do know a fair deal abt psychology and it has been strongly suggested (since the study of the mind is not an exact quantifiable science) that humans are incapable of using feelings and logic at the same time, or that it is quite difficult. Being a person who has a heart myself, I respect that you do as well, but damn…use logic when it involves your position in society, and in making decisions that effect so many people with so many unintented consequences. I truly believe that if you had grown up in a third world country, you would know what I mean. What good will Americans be of help to others when we become third world? Lastly, careful before you loose your license! Best to stay out of the public eye when aiding criminality.

          NO ON MEASURE K

          • There is nothing in Measure K which is unconstitutional or in violation of law. Sanctuary provisions have been upheld every time so long as they constitute an opt out rather than an interference of immigration law enforcement. The precedent is about 170 years old dating back to some states’ and local resistance to the Fugitive Slave law. If you are an attorney as you say, you might want to familiarize yourself with Prigg v. Pennsylvania which is discussed through the link.

            https://tropicsofmeta.com/2017/02/02/a-brief-history-of-sanctuary-cities/

            • Of course it is when the authority for making such a decision is not given to cities or counties. But here you go again, trying to equate it with slavery. It’s quite a stretch to find illegal immigration of free people, most looking for economic advantage , to be the moral equivalent to people held inside the country as slaves. Does Guatemala, Honduras or Mexico hold these people as slaves? They seem to have plenty of freedom to leave when they want if they are slaves. Are we going to fight a war with Mexico to free their slaves? Really?

          • “As much as I would love to support anyone here illegally, including the numerous cool people I have met, it is against the US Constitution”.

            I’m confused. Which part of the Constitution are you referring to?

      • The response is to send them back. There are 1 million aliens a year who come here legally, go through the system legally, pay their own way through, and work hard. But people like you, who are destructive to the truth and facts, want those who come here legally to take second place behind the freeloaders, the illegal aliens. And you can claim all the bullshit talking points you want, they are breaking the law and hurting us all. This shithole state is suffering under present government, they are so evil. And, also, we do not believe Balsy Ford one bit, she is a democrat operative who faked it all for her democrat crime bosses. You liberal progressives do nothing but hurt us all with your high taxes and over regulation. Go to some commie country and live, instead of fucking this one up for the rest of us. You do not have what it takes to tell me or anyone else how to live or think. You are not intelligent enough, nor do you have enough smarts to even live your own life correctly. Please, go to Mexico without papers or ID, and tell them you need assistance. Please just do that. We know you you don’t have the balls, but the offer still stands, go to Mexico undocumented, tell us how it went.

        • So because Mexico has a xenophobic government we should too?

          • You’ll be hard pressed to find another country that is as open to foreigners as is this one. It is not reasonable to belittle Americans as xenophobic (one of those cute little buzz words that nasty people are so fond of throwing as diversions) for defending themselves from a flood of foreign workers displacing them from the lives they have created for themselves.

            What is already going on in this State is that such a large part of it is inhabited by people who have no history with or emotional attachment to the rest of the country that they think they can simply void out laws because they don’t find them inconvenient to expansion of foreigners with whom they more closely identify. They worry less about their neighbor getting laid off because illegal immigrants work cheaper than for illegal immigrants not being free to violate the law at will. This is the real divide that is pushing us into civil war, not the accusations of racism favored by those who beat citizens into submission.

            “Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure.” Only the battlefield is in the inconceivably foolish minds of a people so fortunate as to have been protected from competition that they think everyone will be so foolish.

          • Mexico is not stupid, they know they have limited infrastructure to deal with people who are not their citizens, and they catch them and send them back. They protect their citizens, as should we. Zenaphobic? What a stupid thing to say. We do not want or need them here, whether you think they are little angels or not. The 3 clicks really work. the kids compete to see how many illegals they can turn in to ICE every weekend. They do it right there in Arcata, and everywhere else in this state. They know ICE are hero’s, who protect us. You try to protect criminals, ICE protects us real citizens from criminals. And aren’t you breaking the law by harboring criminal illegal aliens? No on K, vote republican, take this shithole state back from the failed socialist bullshit perverts that run it now. Low school scores, high poverty and crime, an economic disaster where 9000 companies have left the state, and taxes that rape the poor and working poor. The 2 things it has going for it, is that we are fracking, and we are extracting oil just off shore. Q 17

          • aren’t you just creating more probs here instead of solving the core issue of sovereignty?

      • i can understand the rationale, however i would realize i’m taking a risk and things may not work out. no one in any other country would dare to demand rights when they are there illegally. use your head

        • These people are basically refugees. Mexico has become more violent than Iraq, and America’s war on drugs is to blame.

          • well if they fought to change their country as jard as they fight to change this one maybe it would not be so bad.

            • Your solution is to send civilian refugees to fight Narco gangs funded by American drug money. That is monstrous.

              • A lot of the “civilian refugees” I know; ARE the narco gangs. Lots of them. Not just a few. Lots of them.

              • no what i am saying is this. it is a personal choise to either fight or run. if yoy run. you will run your whole life and you shouldnt expext others to fight for you. but if you bamd together and fight you might lose but chances are you will win and if you sheld a bit of blood you will fight to ensure it never gets that bad again

          • Everyone’s a refugee who is from a lawless society. Yet lawlessness is what is being advocated by the idea that violating an inconvenient law is virtuous.

        • People demand rights to which they are entitled. That is also human nature.

          • no one is entittled to that which they have not earned. some earn things easier than others but that doesnt entittle those who need to work harder to the same as those who dont. life isnt fair . be happy you live where you do. if you want to help others go help them make their countries safer for them. but stop attempting to change our great country to make it just as shitty as the rest.

          • Entitlement is 99% a matter of law defining rights. You can not simultaneously support ignoring laws you don’t like and demanding rights created by those laws. At least you can’t if you are honest.

      • You’re conflating the plight of immigration with the effectiveness of Measure K. That’s rather two faced.

        • Measure K isn’t law yet. It hasn’t had a chance to be effective or ineffective.

          • How can you think that a law detailing how to violate the law is ever going to be anything but a lie.

            • Please cite the provisions of Measure K which “detail how to violate the law.” Please be specific.

              Or is that another trick question?

              • We’ve been over this. No county government can write their own de facto immigration law. The Constitution gives that power to the Federal government as is appropriate for something that effects other States.

                To call it a budgeting matter is as disingenuously wrong as Obama saying that he choses not to spend money on enforcing the law because he couldn’t get Congress to change it. It’s petty tactics to circumvent the Constitution. And, as a lawyer, you ought to be ashamed of trying.

    • just one of many valid reasons. i’m sick and tired of the self righteous who don’t put their money where their mouth is and want to force the majority to support their agenda or be labeled “racist”. how about removing your door locks, cell phone locks, computer and bank passwords et al??? because it would be foolish that’s why

      • Well the majority has the option to vote yes or no – nobody is forced to vote either way.

        • Eric Kirk, within all your responses, you’ve dodged the question. What sheriffs have your campaigner talked with who credit sanctuary measures with deacreasing crime?

          Also, how can you not see that your initial claim Measure K would save the county money from lawsuits is less substantiated than the sheriff’s cost assessment, which to my understanding is based on a worst case scenario?

          Please explain this double standard.

          • Your “question” is a weird straw-man. Let me try:

            If you like deporting people so much, why don’t you kick your family out of your house? If you like sending things to Mexico so much, why don’t open an Amazon shop that sells Spanish language books? If you like Trump so much, why not get a 1:1 tattoo of his face on your face?

            Ect…

            Also, can you tell me how much money lawsuits stemming from continued deportations would cost? No? Then how the fuck can anybody else anticipate imaginary lawsuits?

            • Trying to respond to this poster is going down a rabbit hole Jaek. He operates by circular logic and will provide no thoughts of his own other than to perpetually move the goal posts as to what he sees as a valid answer. And no matter how many times you answer he will ask the same questions over and over again. I wouldn’t waste much time spinning your wheels.

              If he isn’t Steven Lewis, he’s got the same issues.

              • As is your tactic of dismissing the valid concerns and objections of people with emotional diversions in references about good people being harmed by enforcing immigration laws. There are two involved in it- the people who immigrate (who are not all the same) and people who have to deal with the consequences of this flood of people.

            • i understood the question, and why should anyone here legally be concerned about deportation??? this is why i choose to vote independently because in this case imo the demos have lost their collective minds. living in gated communities whilst they tell all of us to shut up and do as we’re told and stop being such racist xenophobes. meanwhile we are becoming a third world shithole

        • The truth is that all fighting age Mexicans illegally in the country, including females, should be marched to compounds on the border and held in camps. They should be trained in the art of the M16 and marched through a gate into Mexico, FOLLOWED BY THE US ARMED FORCES.

          • Such compassion.

            • compassion????? omg, that’s all you got??? you don’t want to converse. you want to push your agenda AND appear to be the virtuous one, oh brother. leave your doors unlocked and i’d be inclined to buy your drivel. til then you’re just another phony running your mouth

              • It’s not a question of my virtue. The point is that the people you would target are human beings – a point which gets lost in any discussion made in the context of systemic racism.

                • The people you abuse by calling them racist are also people. Yet you target them in preference to targeting people who have violated the law. No integrity there.

                • and the people who are being negatively impacted by law breaking are humans too. it is all about your self righteous virtue

            • You are creating an “amnesty rush” similar to the “green rush” that filled the hills and welfare offices

              • What exactly is a “welfare office?” Do you actually know what you are talking about? Please be specific.

                • Now you’ve down to the most pitiful of trial tactics- the dazzling with bullshit questions.

                • well, when i was down on my luck xx years ago and needed assistance i went to an office building and filled out forms and provided documentation of myself and my situation and i was supplied with food stamps, the predecessor of the ebt card. i received food stamps to buy food. i received them for three months and then was able to secure steady employment and began working and providing for myself. i was relieved that the taxes i’d paid in over the years were funding a program to help in my true time of need. i paid in to a system and i received back.

        • and for me. it’s a big NO vote for sanctuary foolishness

  • Pingback: Open Letter to the County Board of Supervisors and others | Sohum Parlance II

  • Having a Sheriff who is willing to mislead the public on any issue, as he has done on this issue, is a grave situation which needs to be addressed by way of an election. If he will misrepresent facts in this situation, can he be trusted at any time?

    • What is a local Sherriff supposed to do about the refugees of a failed drug war? They’re not going to stop coming until their country is livable.

      • Stop buying drugs. This would have the same effect without the negative consequences.

      • the sheriff is to protect the citizens of this country from those here without permission and authorization, just like sheriff’s and law enforcement in other countries

  • Look what happened when word got out that Humboldt was weed-friendly!
    20,000 more grows!

    What do you think is going to happen when this shit hits Telemundo or Univision?

  • Reagan’s Central American Dirty Wars coming home to roost.
    Oliver North’s handiwork didn’t merely destroy a generation of black youth in South Central L.A.
    it still has destabilizing impacts.

  • MOST?
    I think these guys need a bit of scolding,too

    • Thank you Eric for pointing out the damage the unfounded financial “information” provided by the county has done to public discourse around Measure K.
      Last winter I read the text of the initiative when it was published in the Journal. It was straight forward, practical and humane. The section that really motivated me to help with signature gathering was the part that allowed parents, if taken into custody to determine where and with whom their children would go.
      Also the initiative did not prevent law enforcement from doing their difficult job. But it did prioritize not to spend our local dollars & resources to do the work of Immigration & Customs Enforcement.
      For example- I was concerned that a woman, a mother with children would be too afraid to call the sheriff if she needed them because of fear of deportation and separation from her children. If our sheriffs did not involve themselves with immigration I felt we would have a safer community; where people would feel they could call on local law enforcement. I assumed that law enforcement would want as much cooperation as possible from the community. Remember the initiative does NOT stop law enforcement from arresting or pursuing someone suspected of a crime.
      It is very disappointing that the sheriff and supervisors bias against Measure K allowed such false financial information to taint and basically sabotage this initiative.

      • except for the fact that they already broke the law and there by are crimminals . we have a saying in the legal system that says without equal enforcement of the law there is no law. meaning that law enforcement is not allowed to decide which laws are enforced and whixh ones arent . if they fail to enforce all laws equally then they cant under the law enforce any law.

        • Actually, the vast majority are charged with civil rather than criminal charges, because only certain kinds of undocumented entry are criminal violations. You really should read up before posting stigmatizing misinformation like this.

          • Crossing at a other than an official border crossing is a crime. It’s just doesn’t generally end up in criminal proceeding due to the horrendous costs that would apply. Certainly reentry after deportation is clearly a crime no matter what yet also rarely esults in criminal proceeding. As is using fraudulent documents. Also rarely prosecuted. Lots of crimes being ignored because it is simply the court systems is just too bloody costly.

      • There might be one or two people who decide to vote because of this cost estimate but the vast majority vote because they think illegal immigration is acceptable or they don’t. This grinding on about mistaken costs estimates is a diversion.

        Frankly the some of the real costs of illegal immigration are the suppression of wages. Why pay wages that are more than necessary when there is an endless supply of people willing to work for relatively little. It puts businesses who pay wages and required benefits for legal workers to have trouble competing. Why even bother to have fair labor laws if they can be so easily avoided?

        Then there people involved in illegal businesses for whom an illegal worker is safe because they are unlikely to demand benefits or worry about the employer paying taxes. If they are injured on the job or the work runs out, they are handed a bit extra if lucky and cut loose.

        The worse damage comes from the general lawlessness of the situation. There are related evils attached to illegal immigration. Things like not carrying car insurance or health insurance. An accident or injury costs ends up being borne by the public. There is the tendency to take care of disputes by personal vengence as frequently neither party wants to call in the law to resolve issues.

        • Immigration may suppress wages in certain contexts, which is why the early labor movement supported such draconian measures as the Chinese Exclusion Act.

          But your fixed-sum view of economics is myopic and inaccurate. Immigrants come here not just as workers, but also as consumers and union organizers. When, thanks in large part to socialist influences, the union movement gave up its xenophobia, it was strengthened. And post-WWII wages rose for decades, with the last great union push coming from Filipinos and Mexicans.

          The decline began in the 1970s with middle class complacency and sophisticated union busting, but that’s another story.

          • Talk about circular reasoning. First flood the market with illegal labor which drives wages down. Then unionize to qincrease wages. But hold on- the next flood of illegal cheap labor comes on, so that is not so effective. Why then petition the government for minimum wage increase. Which then raises the costs and necessitates more increases. Repeat until there are so few getting a good wage that They can’t afford luxuries where immigrants are jnionized. The whole thing just collapses.

            By the way, illegal immigrants and legal ones are two separate issues. Your support is for illegal ones.

            Then yes, you are right about being consumers. As long as illegal immigration flourishes, housing for example will be very costly. Imagine what would housing cost be if, like the tide that flowed back into Mexico when the job market crashed during the last rescession, and illegal immigrants abandoned their homes here to go back to where the living was cheaper. There is a limit to building housing with power, water, etc if it is also desirable to keep any places safe from development. There can’t be both unlimited immigration from the whole world and reserved wild space.

            Socialism has failed everytime it takes over government. Everywhere. Every time.

          • Post war wages increased because so many working age people died!

      • Thank you Robie! It’s refreshing also when people participate in these discussions with their real names. It feels like we’re going to win this, but I am concerned about something along the lines of the Bradley Effect. We’ll find out in a couple of weeks.

        • The public violence of hateful ideologies has already created the fertile ground for corruption with a surprising number of civil service workers violating their oaths of office for their own political agendas and others not identifying with their own country enough to keep from selling to foreign governments.

          Who wants to become the target of such hate when the haters feel free to attack with violence. You feel protected because you’re advocating the same as the most self righteous uncivil people support, while you think that the extremists who would do violence on you are safely despised and contained.

          • Actually, I have received threatening communications during this campaign and others. But most people are not threatened for their ideas. They simply do not want to be held socially accountable for them.

            • Really? Read the news lately? You are delusional your own behavior. How go you want people to be “held socially accountable” for daring to differ from you?

        • Eric V Kirk, you are being foolish.
          Who cares what name is attached to a remark. You don’t even reply to comments that call out your BS

          • I have much more respect for opinions which are made openly and not with the cloak of anonymity. I do support your right to make opinions anonymously. I simply have less regard for them.

            • You make people feel disrespected so yes, anonymity keeps the self righteous abusers away from the front door. You are fairly safe because those you attack are unlikely to attack you back physically, or spend their lives insulting you. The same can not your side of the debate. They seem to be have a fair number of people expressing violence and hate very persistently. And very personally.

  • Remember the “Green Rush”?

    Folks came to get away,grow some herb. They told their friends that it was cool to grow here.
    Then more grows came. Then it made the nat’l news. Then more grows came. Then Humboldt became a worldwide brand.

    So…that is what will happen with this new “amnesty rush”

    No on K!

  • Are the cops allowed to call ICE on their own time?

    • Yes, although the federal law which prohibits us from restricting that has recently been ruled a 10th Amendment violation by a federal judge. We’ll see if that ruling holds at appeal.

      Even so, we would have to revise Measure K to impose that restriction.

  • Ever consider that their problems might follow them here?

    • Corrupt government and third world economic structure cannot follow them here – not unless we continue to force them underground so they remain at the mercy of exploiters.

      • The public violence of hateful ideologies has already created the fertile ground for corruption with a surprising number of civil service workers violating their oaths of office for their own political agendas and others not identifying with their own country enough to keep from selling to foreign governments.

      • That is the most smug and privileged/inexperienced comment possible. One more article like this, and I will personally dedicate my spare time to you losing your license. You are sitting on a precarious edge, and I for one, cannot sit idly by and witness someone of our profession take an activist role in thwarting the law.

  • You shouldn’t hire cheap labor because it’s convenient than refuse to be responsible for them. But those who hire illegals know that is exactly the reason for doing it. It’s convenient for themselves to treat people like Kleenex to be thrown away after one use. Of course supporting things like Measure K salves the conscience. It moves the side effects of their choice to the public’s care.

  • Eric V Kirk is anti-American!

    He can’t really believe his own bs?!

    • What is anti American? If it’s speaking your mind, even if it is objectionable, relying on the law protecting him, then he’s very American. Obviously he doesn’t value what currently is as much as he values what he thinks it ought to be and I suppose that could be called anti American. It’s certainly corrosive.

      As to his believing his own b.s.- no he doesn’t but objectivity is antithetical to most advocates as winning is the goal. Winning is not promoted by detailing complications but by dismissing them.

  • Pingback: Ryan Heather’s video of my open letter | Sohum Parlance II

  • Am I wrong, readers, or is this straight forward?

    Eric Kirk is complaining about potentially erroneous statements made by the sheriff.

    Before the sheriff commented on Measure K at all, Eric, who wrote the ordinance, told us it would save the county money from, among other undisclosed sources, lawsuits. When repeatedly asked for sources of spendings to be saved, Eric finally had to admit there’s none. When asked for any example whatsoever of the kind of lawsuit that threatens the county, let alone a successful one, Eric again dodged the question until coming up empty.

    Eric Kirk made the completely erroneous claim that Measure K would save the county money.

    Then the sheriff gave his cost estimate, which Eric immediately worked into the source of his mythical savings. While basically calling the sheriff a liar, Eric waffled his initial sales pitch to do the exact same thing. Besides that, how can money be saved, that isn’t being spent in the first place?

    Eric Kirk is doing exactly what he’s complainin the sheriff is doing. He is using the sheriff’s “lie” as his own “truth”.

    If integrity has anything to do with campaigning at all, Elizabeth Phillips of Measure K made a blatantly false statement in the Times, that sheriffs of multiple locals are crediting sanctuary measures with reducing crime. Little research is required to prove the statement wrong, especially because she mentioned the sheriff of Merced County, who has made no such endorsement. Eric Kirk refuses to address this, and continues to dodge the statement in this very thread.

    How is this not a fair assessment of a fundamental double standard on the part of Eric Kirk and his team of Measure K proponents?

    Edit: Eric is so flabbergasted that somebody with no vested interest in the matter could call him out, that he’s claiming I’m crazy and possibly somebody he’s pissed off in the past. I’m not that guy. I read all the local newspapers and am sickened by what’s happening to politics locally. Double standards, dishonesty, business as usual politics. I especially can’t stand it when that’s coming from “the good guys”. I don’t believe in nations with borders. I’m indifferent to Measure K. However I do strongly believe we need to get the bullshitters out of local politics on all fronts, and after years of local reading, Eric Kirk is rife with double standards and divisive dialog. Measure K isn’t a symbolic ordinance, but he’s arguing the entire plight of immigration into it, to the point that oppossing his legislation will have him label you uncompassionate, privileged, etc etc. Enough nonsense.

  • The police can’t afford to track and trace. https://thclive.net/2017/10/16/city-of-eureka-cut-police-budget-by-834000-in-order-to-make-payments-on-calpers-retirement-plans/
    The CalPers can’t afford to keep their forced retired happy. https://www.technocracy.news/diane-feinsteins-deep-relationship-to-china/

    Someone mentioned that we ‘need’ the workers for all the jobs that the ‘lazy’ American’s refuse to do, (lest we lose the taxes needed to pay for those forcibly retired on CalPers?)

    Someone else mentioned all the drug cartels they are running from, yet they neglected to mention the OPS from days gone by that created the situation. OPS like Contra Costa papers, https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB2/index.html

    Operation Fast & Furious,
    https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/judicial-watch-justice-department-documents-reveal-widespread-use-fast-furious-weapons-major-mexican-drug-cartels-linked-least-69-killings/

    The Panama Papers
    https://southfront.org/panama-cui-bono/

    Operation Mockingbird, the op that praises the media for lying through their teeth in order to set a narrative, which Obama made legal again.

    Legal good!!! Illegal bad!!! is non-mockingbird.
    Illegal good!!! Legal bad!!! is mockingbird.

  • Sorry Kym, I posted too many links and now it’s in your mod box. You should be happy though, I left out at least hundred others in my futile attempt to keep it simple. Seriously.

  • Reminds me of 215 exploitation.
    And look how many thousands of folks that attracted!

  • Kym, why are pingbacks appearing in the comments section? This is the third or fourth time I’be seen them.

  • Ryan Heather put my letter onto a video giving me a robotic English accent.

    Hopefully it makes me sound more sophisticated!

    https://youtu.be/Bg7ENp3ixZE

  • The US is the target of choice because we do such a piss poor job of enforcing already relaxed laws. People are apparently flying from Mexico to enter at the Canadian border because it is easier. Unlike Canada, once in they are next to impossible to remove. Canada rejects most of the claims for refugee status that Americans are expected to obediently swallow lest they be called racist. https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/national-illegal-border-crossing-us-from-canada-1.4863636

  • https://cis.org/Report/Terrorist-Infiltration-Threat-Southwest-Border?&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=addtoany

    One party is against screening and documenting foreign people entering the country so they can only live where they can be hidden.
    The other party is against the obstructing of allowing people to be screened and documented so they can live legally wherever they choose.

    #FixImmigrationLaws

  • Clearly some of you don’t know your history. Ever heard of the Brocero Program?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bracero_program

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