Discuss the Issues of Rural Sun-grown Cannabis Farmers in SoHum This Weekend

International Cannabis Farmers AssociationPress release from the International Cannabis Farmers Association:

ICFA / MAP Educational Forum in Palo Verde, CA

Heartwood Mountain Sanctuary

September 7-9, 2018
Friday, September 7 – Thought Leaders Introduction

You are invited to join core ICFA and MAP members for 

discussion and dinner while we mingle at the Heartwood Mountain Market. In this informal setting we will discuss current hot topics for rural sun grown cannabis farming communities and refine the weekends agenda. Dinner is available for purchase at the Market.

3:00-4:00 ICFA/MAP core group arrival and Check-in.

4:00-8:00 Mingle with community at the Heartwood Mountain Market.

Saturday, September 8 – ICFA Education at Heartwood

8:00-8:45 Breakfast.

9:00-10:00 Rural Cannabis Community Needs.

10:00-10:15 Break

10:15-11:45 Sun Grown Agricultural Commission.

11:45-12:00 Break.

12:00-1:00 Lunch.

1:00 2:00 Break -Bring swimsuits to swim/sauna after the presentation.

Saturday, September 8 – MAP Education at Palo Verde Volunteer Fire Dept.

2:00 3:00 Arrival and Set-Up at PVVFD.

3:00 5:00 Mendocino Appellations Project Presentation and community conversation.

5:00 6:00 Break.

6:00 8:00 PVVFD monthly Fundraiser BBQ and Bar.

Sunday, September 9 at Heartwood

8:00-8:30 Breakfast.

8:30-11:30 Breakout Sessions – Members of ICFA and MAP will host informative breakout sessions to discuss topics such as Sungrown Agricultural Commissions; Appellations of Origin; Fish Friendly Cannabis Farming; Sustainable and

Compliant Irrigation Systems; Water Rights; Dry Farming, Integrated Pest Management, Enforcement: How to protect yourself in the event of enforcement; Cannabis Events; Living Soil; Humboldt County Ordinance 1.0 vs 2.0; Farm Efficiencies, Adaptability & Tech; Trade Marking, Branding & Marketing; and other topics relevant to the Palo Verde sun grown farming community whether in the permitting process or not.

11:30-2:00 Break/brunch – Bring swimsuits to swim/sauna after the presentation.


Event Info: Hollie@icfa.farm

ICFA Info: Info@icfa.farm

MAP Info: Thebrainbloom@gmail.com

Heartwood for room reservations if needed:

http://www.heartwoodhub.com/lodging 707-923-5000


ICFA / MAP Educational Forum in Palo Verde, CA

At Heartwood Mountain Sanctuary

September 7-9, 2018

Neighbors and friends,

Please join ICFA (International Cannabis Farmers Association) and MAP (Mendocino Appellations Project) for a three-day

event Saturday Sept. 7-9 at the Palo Verde Ranch in Southern Humboldt County. Heartwood Institute and the PVVFD (Palo Verde Volunteer Fire Department) will be hosting community presentations and conversations about Appellations of Origin, a Sun Grown Agricultural Commission and topics relevant to small cannabis farmers in various phases of the permitting process and those who will not be participating in permitting. The weekend will lend context to, and guidance in navigating a pathway through the transitional Cannabis landscape, and how we can best serve our communities to preserve our unique, heritage cannabis culture.

*See attachments for more information about ICFA and MAP

Why are we discussing a Sun Grown Agricultural Commission?

Agricultural commissions were created in statute under the marketing law of 1937. The purpose of agricultural commission is for marketing, research & education, and advocacy.

A Sun Grown Agricultural Commission could:
• Advise and work with other boards and commissions on issues facing farmers
• Conduct inventories of agricultural resources
• Conduct inventories of historic farms and farm buildings
• Educate the public on matters relating to farming and agriculture
• Serve as a local voice advocating for farmers, farm businesses and farm interests
• Provide visibility for farming
• Give farmers a place to go to for help
• Help resolve farm-related problems or conflicts
• Help protect farmland and other natural resources.

Why are we discussing Appellations of Origin?

The Medicinal and Adult-Use Cannabis Regulation and Safety Act (MAUCRSA), signed into law by Governor Brown, expands on the scope of appellation standards first introduced by MCRSA and AUMA. Under MAUCRSA, the California Department of Food and Agriculture will create a process by which licensed cultivators may establish appellations of standards, practices, and varietals applicable to cannabis grown in certain geographical area in California no later than January 1, 2021.


The International Cannabis Farmers Association is a group of cannabis farmers, scientists, and stakeholders working together to promote the unique quality and ecological benefits of sun grown Cannabis products while preserving the heritage of traditional farming communities.

The association is made up of farmers and stakeholders committed to the best agriculture and farming practices. It is an organization of, by and for farmers.


The International Cannabis Farmers Association will:

    • Educate leaders, policy makers, consumers, and the public on the quality and ecological benefits of traditionally farmed sun grown Cannabis;

    • Create a dynamic and creative consumer direct educational campaign on the superior quality and benefits of traditionally sun grown Cannabis;

    • Promote public policy that ensures an equal share of licenses are issued to traditional sun grown Cannabis farmers;

    • Empower the world’s last remaining family operated farms using traditional practices to grow Cannabis; and

    • Collect and share data on the environmental benefits of traditionally farmed sun grown



Regulatory frameworks often require that therapeutic Cannabis varietals be grown indoors, or in all season greenhouses, despite the overwhelming evidence that traditionally farmed sun grown Cannabis is of the highest quality and ecologically superior. This trend in public policy has devastating environmental implications and ultimately leaves the unknowing patient and adult use consumer without access to traditionally farmed Cannabis and Cannabis-derived products.

We have formed the International Cannabis Farmers Association to establish the science, data and consumer education necessary to break down these barriers while promoting the quality, benefits and ecological superiority of traditionally farmed Cannabis.

As individuals, our power is limited. As a group, we are far more powerful.


The International Cannabis Farmers Association will empower traditional Cannabis farmers through education, research and advocacy.

We will:

    • Raise public awareness about the benefits of sun grown Cannabis and Cannabis– derived products;

    • Engage a lobbyist to advocate for the development of responsible regulations in CA, which we see as crucially important due to its significance to national and international policy development;

    • Conduct a market research study to better determine the current availability and perception of sun grown Cannabis in today’s marketplace;

    • Create an online presence to provide resources and forums;

    • Conduct scientific research to quantify the ecological benefits of traditionally farmed 


    • Create educational programs for regulators, industry and consumers that highlight the benefits and ecological superiority realized when Cannabis is grown utilizing traditional farming practices; and

    • Gather the data necessary to establish internationally recognized appellations of origin.


International Cannabis Farmers Association Board of Directors:

Kristin Nevedal, Chair

Amanda Reiman, PhD MSW, Secretary Tristin Oates, Treasurer

Hollie Hall, PhD Tina Gordon Heather Kornberg Chrystal Ortiz

Appellations of Origin

Appellations are a way of communicating the origin story of an agricultural product to the world. They are legally defined and protected Geographical Indications, found on the label of a qualifying agricultural product. Appellation designations regulate growing regions, varietals, and production standards, resulting in afinalproductofexceptionalquality.Theyelevatethevalueofthe product for the producer, distributor, and retailer, and assure the consumer that they are purchasing the finest craft quality product available on themarket.

Mendocino Appellations Project

MAPisanon-profiteducation,researchandadvocacyorganizationworkingtodeveloplegalappellation oforigindesignationsforcannabisinCalifornia.Wearecollaboratingwithstrategicpartnerstoconduct the necessary research, develop local and statewide policies that support cannabis appellations, and to preserve and promote our region’s rich canna-cultural heritage.

Research Goals
  • Research region specific geographical boundaries, cultivars, practices and standards. MAP understands the qualifying criteria for AO to include: 1. Provenance, which is the place of origin or the chronological custody of the product, 2. Terroir, a French concept used to understand the combined result of the environmental conditions on the crop and resulting product (i.e., climate, topography, soil and water composition), 3. Traditional knowledge, or the social components of agriculture within the appellation, such as the craft of cultivation and products that have been developed and carried forward from generation to generation, and 4. Qualifying botanical factors, such as region specific cultivars, as well as qualitative and potency markers of the product.
  • Utilize Community Driven Research methodology for all scopes of MAP’s research. MAP has adopted a methodology of community driven research (CDR) in its work to establish AO, wherein reciprocal and equitable partnerships are pursued between various stakeholders of cannabis AO, involving cannabis farmers, organizations, and researchers. Community-driven research is distinctive from prevalent researcher-driven research because the community takes the lead in developing the research agenda and projects that are important to their needs. This partnership approach enables the partners to contribute their expertise and share decision-making and ownership of the research. It also promotes community oversight and engagement in the research process, and it is crucial to supporting MAPʼs cannabis farmers and their stake in benefiting from an AO system in a regulated market.
  • Develop CDR research templates that are regionally replicable and scalable. MAP’s goal is to develop CDR research methodology, pilot programs and templates that can serve any region seeking to develop appellation of origin systems for cannabis.

Support the community health of cannabis producing regions.

One of the parameters of CDR is that programs are designed to give back to the communities being researched. Researchers will be expected to help train community members, when appropriate, into the data collection and interpretation, so that the research is sustainable. CDR gives a strong voice to communities that, due to prohibition, never before had such a voice. Through CBR, generations of personal experience, including difficult histories, have the opportunity to serve as research evidence to establish legal appellation of origin protections and designations, in kind offering tangible socio- economic returns to these communities.

Recommendations for CalCannabis Appellation Program

California state law mandates the creation of CalCannabis Geographical Indication program for California cannabis. MAP supports the development of a comprehensive GI system that offers tiered designations:

  • County of Origin: Broadly inclusive with minimal standards aside from those that verify the geographic source of the product.

  • Appellation of Origin: Highly exclusive with qualitative markers and standards based upon regional cultivars, cultural practices, and environment.

Cannabis Cultivar Library: Recommend the development of a statewide cannabis cultivar library, or regionally networked libraries, to help establish cannabis naming conventions and legal varietal protections.

Protected Terms: Define and codify a list of Protected Terms to be broadly applied across all license types, for use in standards development and labeling requirements. This would prioritize terms and phrases that are of particular relevance to AO practices and standards.

Statewide Appellation Qualifications: Recommend qualifying AO crop(s) flower in full sun and be planted in the ground, exclusively.

Regional Appellation Standards: Regional research, local stakeholder input, and local authority to develop regional AO districts and standards is essential


Rachel Giraudo Richard Mendleson Eleanor Kuntz Hollie Hall

Tony Phillips

Strategic Partners

420 Archive

California Growers Association International Cannabis Farmers Association

The Mendocino Cannabis Industry Association

Board of Directors

Justin Calvino Sara O’Donnell Ryan Long Hazel Bagwell Tom Rodrigues

Swami Chaitanya Christopher Halmo


Genine Coleman, Executive Director Kristen Garringer, Research Associate



  • Ed, a couple of the articles reference the Mendocino Appellations Project, a non-profit that will participate in the weekends educational program.

    • Thank you Hollie. Will you be discussing where all these appellations will be getting their water? What is the plan for irrigation and water use? It just seems ironic, and for a very long time, if you questioned the amount of water use by cannabis growers, the proponents will point out how much water vineyards use; but now the cannabis industry wants to copy the wine industry model.

      Do you have an estimate how many acres are included in these cannabis appellations?

      • You can get 2# plants watering them 2 gallons per day. If you have one of those $25 hose water meters at Dazeys, you can count exactly how much you give each plant. Catching rain water is super easy. I’m still using stored rainwater from last year, while watching my neighbors buy water. But Ed does have a bit of a point. The water is finite. Not every watercourse could or should look like Powers Creek. I wonder if water from that Creek ever touches the eel?

        • Dan; let me give you an example why the rain catchment and storage idea doesn’t work. For example; If you want to grow cannabis commercially (resale) within the jurisdictional boundary and Place of Use of the Garberville Sanitary District, you will not be able to use any other water for the cultivation of cannabis unless you purchase a separate ag water meter and are billed separately for that water. I understand it cost $8k for the connection fee/meter and billed at a different rate.

          • You seem like a glass half empty kinda guy. Alot of shit really sucks in this world, but smiling with a positive attitude makes things better. Aside from your isolated example of Garberville proper(which I don’t believe you are correct about), what are the problems with it? The vast majority of commercial growers aren’t in town either. All though I am not required to, I just purchased a $40 water meter to install on the outflow from my rain tank.

            • GSD’s jurisdictional boundary and Place of Use extends as far north as Caltrans, as far east up Alderpoint Road to the end of the Meadows Subdivision, west across the river to Connick Creek Subdivision , and south down Sprowel Creek Road to the Kimtu Subivision, not just “in town”. According to the GSD GM Ralph Emerson, GSD has 30 to 40 commercial cannabis grows using a GSD water connections and 75 property’s using GSD water zoned AG. I’m glad you’re a half full kinda person, you must mean a shit eating grin to keep it together like that? Be well, be regular and behave….

              • So…I’m not super concerned with the boundaries of the water district. I’ll ask again since you got caught up on some details. Do you have more examples as to why the rainwater/ catchment system doesn’t work? Sounds like you have more than rainwater you’re butt hurt about.

          • Thanks for continuing to write fact based letters Mr. Voice

  • 11:45-12:00 Break. (burn one)

  • Sue humboldt county.

    Long live the emerald triangle!!!!!! Our. Payed and elected representation will eat there carma!!!!!

  • An actual ecologist

    “Conduct scientific research to quantify the ecological benefits of traditionally farmed Cannabis”

    As a trained ecologist, I do not have any reason to think that outdoor (sungrown) is in any way inherently more eco-friendly than indoor. The carbon footprint form a typical outdoors grow is massive. Anyone on the natural gas power plant is getting relatively clean energy, and with redwood energy, an indoor grower can offset their carbon footprint by choosing to purchase carbon neutral energy (I know two who do that). Indoor avoids forest fragmentation, introduction of non-native pests, disturbance of wildlife, light pollution, and noise pollution.

    It sounds like they are approaching a research question with an unfounded assumption/bias. The research question should be; Are there ecological benefits to Cannabis grown outdoors vs Cannabis grown indoors, when comparing best practices for each?

    “Create educational programs for regulators, industry and consumers that highlight the benefits and ecological superiority realized when Cannabis is grown utilizing traditional farming practices.”

    If they mean traditional vs modern ag practices, great.

    • “Regulatory frameworks often require that therapeutic Cannabis varietals be grown indoors, or in all season greenhouses, despite the overwhelming evidence that traditionally farmed sun grown Cannabis is of the highest quality and ecologically superior. This trend in public policy has devastating environmental implications and ultimately leaves the unknowing patient and adult use consumer without access to traditionally farmed Cannabis and Cannabis-derived products.”

      Yep, they are grasping at slippery straws. What overwhelming evidence? Emerald triangle growers need to understand that anyone can grow great weed, anywhere. Having a ‘highly’ rated black market product for decades now means nothing, tomorrow it means less, and the next day even less. ET growers need to stop whining and high fiving each other over history while the marketplace passes them right by. The grower fragmentation in so hum is speeding up the market decline. Old established families, international cartels, rich city bois, and outright criminals will never work together toward a common good – all too busy blowing up there scenes and stuffing mattresses full of cash. Or worse, sending the cash back home.

      The attributes that made the Emerald Triangle weed production flourish was isolation from population centers, few jobs, and the inherent lack of law enforcement. Those same attributes are why ET weed will not be able to compete. Growing illegal weed for decades qualifies someone to be called an expert, but nobody freaking cares if your an expert. How much expertise does it take to grow a damn weed?

    • Humboldt Hillsman

      Best practice outdoor cannabis has almost zero impact on the environment.

      • “They” have pushed most all black market growers back to 1993 all over again. Indoors has made a HUGE movement in the last 6 months. Gorilla grows will be much more prominent too. The war on drugs is a joke. Yes “cannibis “ is a drug….and legalization is not a “freedom”, it’s a war to funnel the billions made in illegal cash into a few corporations that will profit legally over it, all while eventually stamping out any last hope of community. Greed and fear is fueling this fire 10 fold. Good luck emerald triangle because this will soon be backwoods Appalachia…… without the 30 billion dollar a year revenue.

        • THIS^^^

          The issue is that “legalization” made the north coast way of life illegal… all under the guise of “legalization”

          Don’t piss down our necks and tell us its raining…

      • Please define “almost” and “environment”? “almost zero” is a great oxymoron!

        However, you still need water to grow your crop. Where does that water come from?

        Weed was grown in the hills of Northern Mendocino and Southern Humboldt so as not to get caught. It because a black market, just like moonshine during prohibition. Now, people growing weed, think they have a right to change the landscape, come out of the hills as respectable, sustainable and responsible farmers. You are now no different than BIG AG, with lobbyists in Sacramento. You can grow weed “almost” anywhere in California legally, why do you want to keep growing it where it’s not sustainable, depletes natural resources, degrades the watershed/water quality and adversely affects wildlife; so people can get high?

        • If i may butt into this discussion of “weed” “water” and “whine.”

          The prohibition of graven images is before the prohibition of murder.

          Greedy greenhouse Gods provide nothing i’d dare to come in contact with. Are you suggesting, Ed, that man can bring his phony facsimile 5 x a year harvests, that were forced indoors out of nature, and s o m e h o w it’s better than all of the seeds and plants that grow w/out man-made chemicals and timed lighting? I betcha you are a GMO fan, because, after all, the repetitious bull sh!t about “Overpopulation” demands that man come to the rescue with fake food. . . for fake people.

          “Almost” and “environment” are both no-agreed-upon value words. No value, no contract. No contract no jurisdiction. Same as ordinance, industry, attorneys, insurance . . . meaningless, negative state of being, blahbity, blah, blah, blah words, in our face 24/7.

          It’s hard to communicate w/each other with all these walls of beliefs separating us, and tricksters blowing smoke up our A’s. I believe in us -the living fact. Energetically, things have shifted towards LoveLight but most cannot see it yet.

          • Couple of questions, if you’re up for it:

            In the scheme of things, how was the production of moonshine in the hills and wood from 1920 to 1933 different than the cultivation and production of marijuana in the hills and woods circa 1970’s to 2017 in Northern Mendocino or Southern Humboldt County?

            They both created denial, fear, separation, division, stress, corruption, poverty, wealth, incarceration, PTSD and supported an outlaw mentality. And they were both pursued by local, state and federal law enforcement agencies (i.e. it continues with marijuana today). In other words, the cultivation of marijuana and black market not only changed the landscape, ecosystems, wildlife habitat and watersheds, it also has changed the moral values and culture of about 3 generations of people; some more than others…

            Here is a great look at Southern Humboldt, called TIMELINE for Marijuana in Northwest California


            • Maybe we should all start making moonshine instead?

            • Maybe you need to take a short ride on 36 and see the mountains of stacked dead forest trees. And come back and let us know how terrible growing an annual plant is and the destruction it causes. BTW, hemp removes radiation in the soil.

              I grew hemp and didn’t associate it with denial, fear (false evidence appearing real), separation (sharing a toke certainly has nothing to do with separation/division/stress). Corruption? Jesus God Ed, what planet are you from? Planting any seed is my/our birth right – I do not need permission from a pretend external authority that I know are corrupt, incompetent, narcissists.

              Poverty and wealth – you’re really stretching here. Why not throw in porno? PTSD – post traumatic slave disorder – will be everywhere once the blinders are removed.

              Which brings us back to “law” enforcement << that’s what changes 3 generations of people. Repeating words that no one bothers to define. What does code or ordinance have to do with law? NOTHING. For one, there’s no enabling clause. For two, the rules of grammar are thrown out the window – adverb verb, adverb verb sentences of semantic deceit used to create fraud hold no authority whatsoever. No one needs to join in the madness.

              Force always attracts men of low morality.

              We shall require a new manner of thinking if mankind is to survive.

              • You said:

                “It’s hard to communicate w/each other with all these walls of beliefs separating us, and tricksters blowing smoke up our A’s”

                I guess speaking as anonymous gives you the courage to disparage one persons opinion?

                And to answer your question; I’m from this planet, a place called Garberville, its my hometown, graduated SFHS Class of 1975, my family moved there in 1961, we sold our house in 2015, while the place still had value.

                BTW, why did you change the topic from Marijuana to Hemp? And what is this “birth right” you’re talking about? Is it on my birth certificate? Because I have heard of a “birth right” in other country’s, i.e. ear to the throne? Does Humboldt have birth rights I didn’t know about?

      • Best practice would include the pics of the environmental disasters the HCSO popped?

      • An actual ecologist

        “Best practice outdoor cannabis has almost zero impact on the environment.”

        Yes, and best practices indoor has even less.

    • Since youre only an ecologist, I suggest you go back to school for a bit of math or botany. These questions have all ready been answered. Growing a pound outside, with used materials and tools, can cost as low as $38 or less. Or for an indoor pound, if you have your technique dialed and get #2 per light, around 500watts running 12 hrs for 60 days @ $.16/kwh plus fans and pumps. About $63 per pound, doubble that if you only grow #1 per light. These numbers are from my personal experiences. Alot of these outdoor grows are costing so much because the county is requreing extensive and at times excessive infrastructure for these businesses to legally operate.

      • Not to mention chemicals that are necessary to grow indoors in a ‘fake’ environment that aren’t necessary outdoors. So many ways this ecologist is wrong… not worth arguing over. Good example of book smart doesn’t equal common sense!

        • All the old inventory rotting in so hum should tell ya something about legalization. Not worth arguing over is correct. Yall can keep ignoring the facts while your cookie jars go empty. Stick a fork in it. And yo, its not Estelle’s fault.

        • Aw and he’s an insecure ecologist too

        • paid for scientific research can draw any “eco-friendly” conclusions that the $ wants them too… It’s called regulatory capture, and it’s why greenwashing fish and gamers are the new stormtroopers

      • An actual ecologist

        A degree in ecology is heavy in stats and mine was heavy in botany.

        “These questions have already been answered.”

        They have not even been asked in a scientific manner, let alone answered. Unless of course you are counting my answer. Energy use is more easily offset than the impacts of outdoor. You are talking economics, not ecology.

      • Used materials? Yea u get “dirt” weed at that cost and effort. And what? You trim every bud yourself . $38/lb yea right. How about add a zero to that.

        • It was some fire. I didn’t mention effort in my last comment at all, I put in a shit load if that. I also said grow it, not process it. $38 isn’t counting my own time, but includes stutsmans, bone feather, blood meal, palm ash, bat guano, rototiller rental, gas and some other things. Didn’t buy soil or pots, right into the ground. Also, processing, dirt and nutes wasn’t figured into the $63 for indoor.

          TLC goes along way my friend.

    • You must be a troll, so i shouldn’t respond, but…
      “…indoor avoids forest fragmentation,… light pollution, and noise pollution.”
      Umm, in comparison to outdoor? You needn’t scatter outdoor plants any more than you do indoor. Same shape footprint (if the topography suggests it) whether you have plastic wrap around it or not.
      And i have never seen an outdoor that used lights and made noise!

      What sort of political school are you from, to suggest that something that doesn’t even happen, happens more than where it obviously and almost always happens–lights, fans, and generators for indoor grows?

      • You forgot to mention clearing the forest, grading, roads and water infrastructure. Taken together as a whole, no matter the method is detrimental. Have you seen google earth photo’s for the last 20 years? No matter if you grow subterranean, indoor or outdoor you are negatively effecting the natural web. Its called cause and effect. Just like logging, instream gravel extraction, surface mining or Reggae on the River @ Frech’s Camp. These are human made, human needs only designed to generate money for humans. Who is left to protect the voiceless species? You?

        They say a picture is worth a thousands words…


      • An actual ecologist

        LOL! COme on Laura you can’t be serious. Im sure if you think for 10 min you will see why your comment is just silly. Where can we have indoor grows,a dn where can we have outdoors grows?

    • Please explain why outdoor sungrown cannabis has any “carbon footprint” at all….

    • As an ‘actual ecologist’ you likely understand that cannabis is a plant and that the act of cultivating cannabis is agriculture. As such there is much scientific evidence that regenerative farming practices have the potential to offset climate change, improve soil health, protect water quality and stabilize rural economies. Healthy soil results in reduced irrigation water needs, reduced nutrient input, and cleaner downstream rivers and creeks.

      Here is a link to a sample of scientific documentation of regenerative agricultural practices benefit to the environment: http://www.regenerationinternational.org/the-science/

      • Yes and “Regeneration International” is an active, recognized and legitimate 501c3:


        Is ICFA?

        Where in that link/article does it discuss cannabis cultivation? And I would add, most ORGANIC “agricultural practices benefit to the environment”!

        How many cannabis grows in So. Humboldt/No. Mendocino are permitted, let alone CCOF?

        If ICFA is going to represent the cannabis industry, shouldn’t that be a requirement for membership?

        It just seems to me, knowing what you state on your website (stating ICFA is a 501c3), the ICFA apple does not fall to far the tree of the black market cannabis cultivation practices. Just say’n…

        The only reason I voted “YES” on Proposition 64, was to make all cannabis cultivation comply to all land use laws, regulations and water rights! It would seem to have been the only option, given the direction it was headed…

  • we haven’t talked about this enough? more self proclaimed experts talking about weed. yak yak yak. look at me i can talk about weed. give me money and ill talk about weed. hanging with a bunch of know it all that think they know something no one else does. im guessing in not free.

    • 110% agree.

      All these self-proclaimed “helpers” are more than likely under the age of 60. So what can they possibly bring to the table that the experience (and passed on), of 40-years-growing in Humboldt people don’t know?

      Mixing law forms in the public is dangerous. Lawyers are known liars -3 million of us caged across America is evidence enough to stay far away from BUMs – BAR Union Members practicing a foreign jurisdiction on American soil. As in, what Article of the Constitution for the united States of America (land jurisdiction), is their agency organized under?

  • Sue humboldt county.

    Thats rite one of the most least environmentaly damaging forms of industry there are.these ecologists and shady little rip off politicians that portray being environmentalists are going to run the 99% of us out of here and force us to have to work in environmentaly damaging industries.bet there all drinking out of plastic bottles and wiping there backsides with paper.next thing we’ll see is a walmart down at dean creek and we’ll all be selling plastic crap made in china good for one use and to the dump at the top of the hill.we need to kick her out of that chair and get someone who truly represents there constituents.someone who is trying to keep the RIP OFFS in eureka from running us all into the ground. Estelle you failed us step down before the damage is too great this community can never recover

    • Not just Estelle. The whole lot of traitors committing fraud while collecting a paycheck out of the people’s public treasury, and stand-up at the beginning of meetings and pledge their allegiance to a 4-colored military flag with the wrong size stripes and upside-down stars.

      “We are the ones we’ve been waiting for” -Hopi prophecy. We can’t remove them until we have the new guards in place – possibly short-terms? If they refuse to recognize that the consent of the governed MUST be obtained prior to taxation – get them outta there a.s.a.p. If they are clueless what their oath means and a surety company will not bond them because they’re in fraud up to their eyes – out they go. Preferably, exit Humboldt and do not return.

      We have everything we need to create the future we desire. We’re mid-way through. EVERYTHING is in place. The masses w/cling to giving away their power to another -BUMs or the private persons masquerading as public servants. But the three percent have been and are wide-awake (waiting, waiting, waiting), and can see the devildoers for what they are.

      What worked in the past will not work now or in the future. The corrupt @System@ collapsed in January 2016. Days after the ‘no vote’ TAX Ordinance, commerce came to an abrupt halt, first time ever, all over planet Earth.

      Just say the word, get the new guards in place, and w/a little help from my friends, i’ll bring forward the 1849 California Constitution, YES, it is alive and doing well, but must be claimed by you and me, us and we.

      November has been set aside for this very thing. Don’t forget, we need a recorder (haven’t had one since December 15, 1992), an elected Assessor, an elected Tax collector who isn’t in a PRIVATE Lease Inc., office mailing tax statements into the public (!!), an Agriculture Commissioner who isn’t employed in Del Norte and Trinity Counties as an Ag. Commissioner, an elected Sheriff sworn into office and has the brains to know he or she can’t also claim a Coroner position, and . . . a Grand Jury (missing since 1956), should round out our ‘civic’ duty.

      Step forward all you geniuses, who might not know it, California state, Humboldt County is in dire need of you. Read the California state Constitution. Read the Constitutional Convention that took place in Monterey. That’s our foundation, so that’s where we start. Live it. Be it.

      mmkay, i’m done.

  • Indoor vs outdoor? Let’s debate!

    “Indoor is better than out door.” Consumers perspective.
    “Outdoor is better than indoor”
    Outdoor farmers perspective.
    FYI licensed permited indoor cultivation facilities either use mostly renewable energy if not all renewable energy to run their farms as required by the state and their local authorities. Indoor farms need liquid discharge permits which means ALL of their runoff is minimaalized and monitored and treated. Modern indoor cannabis is grow in a way that these marginalized outdoor farmers/haters will not address.

    • Re-newable energy? More like massive brainwashing.

      If consumer’s perspective is that indoor is better than outdoor – i’d say these consumers also wouldn’t remember what a homegrown tomato tastes like compared to a tasteless hothouse produced tomato.

    • // “FYI licensed permited indoor cultivation facilities either use mostly renewable energy if not all renewable energy to run their farms as required by the state and their local authorities.” //

      There is no such state requirement (zero).

      Please provide a local requirement for such (just one will do).

      I’m not familiar with every single local jurisdiction, but as someone who has researched state wide for cultivation locations over the last year, I’m not familiar with a single one that requires what you claim is a requirement.


  • I like stars too!

    Sorry guys, there is just no way in hell that growing “Cannabis” in Humboldt County is ever going to be anything but a total social and ecological disaster.

    Having a “farm” in the forest, in an area already devastated by overuse of water, rampant incursion by drug dealers, and complete lack of government control over a huge group of crazies who insist upon making a living by growing a worthless plant while flying below all legal lines for operations will never work. Permits and fines may control a few, but, all cannabis farming needs to be moved to actual farmland in areas with adequate water, among other supplies required, and which will result in the consumption of less diesel fuel, fertilizer, and illegal labor, among other things.

    Growing closer to the marketplace will save millions of gallons of fuel. This is enough reason to not continue to allow cannabis cultivation in Humboldt County. Trucking in potting soil, fuel, plastic pipes, and all the other ecologically unfriendly accoutrements of pot growing needs to end.

    This discussion does not even address the incredible public health problem which will develop around cannabis use. Pay attention, because soon there will be a backlash against the recent trend towards legalization.

    Cannabis use will cause huge health and social problems, going forward. The battle over this”harmless flower” has only begun…

  • The virus is the illusion of communication.

    “Growing cannabis.” Growing hemp.

    “Overuse of water.” Primarywater.org

    “Drug” dealers. Webster’s dictionary defines ‘drug’ as 1a) a substance used in dying or chemical operations.
    b: a substance used as a medication. (1)a: a substance recognized in an official pharmacopoeia or formulary
    (2) a substance intended for use in the diagnosis, cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of disease
    (3) a substance other than food intended to affect the structure or function of the body (4) a substance intended to use as a component of medicine but not a device or a component, part, or accessory device
    2: a commodity that is not saleable or for which there is no demand (3) something that causes addiction.

    “a worthless plant” – no comment

    “legal” – again, no comment.

    “Permits” – are for the uninformed, too lazy, distracted, or don’t care enough to educate themselves. The enablers of fraud are as guilty as the perpetrators. Begging your Master for permission to exercise a right is no way to go thru life. I often wonder how some people walk without a spine.

    Please don’t call yourself a farmer or grower if you buy (foreign and more than likely contaminated) soil, diesel, pesticides, or greenhouses.

    “Illegal” – another bastardized word – no comment.

    Seriously, get a dictionary.

    • I like stars too!

      Mr CentralHumco:

      I agree with part of your statement, but very little of it makes any sense at all!

      Here is another of my precious thoughts:

      In my humble opinion, the point of legalization is so anyone at all can grow their own. Absolutely anyone can grow good weed anywhere, so we don’t need cultivation in Humboldt.

      Humboldt weed can be grown by any idiot. (obviously)

      AND, Mendo weed is better!

  • Hollie, I have another question. I tried to look up your organizations tax exempt status, as its states on your website:

    “The International Cannabis Farmers Association is a registered 501(c)3 non-profit organization. Therefore, your donation is 100% tax deductible. Please use the following EIN number to claim your tax deduction: 82-1178844”


    Funny thing, your EIN or name does not come up on California Secretary of State, Guidestar, IRS or California AG Registry of Charitable Trust data base. Did you receive your determination letter from the IRS?

    • 501(c)3 status is not simple to obtain. I could not find the ICFA’s EIN in the IRS data base.

      Another interesting non-prof listing:
      THE HUMBOLDT CONSOLIDATOR, INC., Corporation Number: C3741504

    • Hello Again,
      ICFA is the Traditional Farmers Association, a C4 Domestic Nonprofit active with the California Secretary of State.

      • Thank you Hollie, but its not what your ICFA website states; it states you’re a 501c3 and donations are “100% tax deductible”, that’s an IRS determination. is ICFA a tax exempt organization? Same with your EIN, that number is generated by the IRS, not the CA SOS. Its why I asked if you have the determination letter from the IRS. Seems you are misleading the public? Do you have a Humboldt County Business license?

        I would sure not want to be you or any of your Board of Directors, with the IRS asking questions…

        Here’s the link to the CA SOS Business search, let me know what you find:


      • Today, Kristin Nevedal left me a message on my cel phone, said she was sorry for the confusion. However, she said the ICFA was formed as a DBA. Which would explain why ICFA is not a 501c3 and why ICFA is not a tax exempt organization. So why would you misrepresent or state a misleading statement to the public?

        By the way, California does not have something called an “C4 Domestic Nonprofit”!

        Now if you mean a 501c4, federal tax law does not allow donations to “C4” nonprofits to be deducted on donors’ tax returns.

        So what exactly is ICFA, just a DBA? If you are not a tax exempt organization with the FTB, you need a local business license from your city or the county. It would seem, ICFA is not permitted with anyone…

        • Keep this up Ed and Kym will need to do a story on the topic.


          • About time. The self proclaimed weed experts who did nothing to help the process. Nothing. Now turns out it’s all smoke and mirrors ? Funny stuff if it wasn’t so sad.

          • That would be awesome! But IMHO, not realistic! Given the tight-knit cannabis growers network in SoHum, i.e. sponsorship, advertising, underwriting, you know, hush money…

        • Hi there. There is no intention to mislead the public. The org was originally structured to become a 501C3 by then as The Trump administration settled in this status became very challenging for cannabis research, education and advocacy groups to obtain. And as a new organization our work priorities, due to necessity and lack of funding, moved farther away from research and more focused on advocacy.

          We have been trying to get our new website launched which will help to clarify the status but bandwidth has been a challenge. At this point the organization is powered by volunteers! The board of directors and our ED have committed countless hours of volunteer time to the organization and revamping the website has simply slipped through the cracks. As we head into the fall I would expect to see the new website up and running very soon.

          We encourage community engagement and host a weekly policy call as well as a weekly member/board call. These calls are free to participate in, although donations are certainly appreciated.

          Folks who have questions and/or concerns can email me directly – kristin@icfa.farm

          • Kristin! With all do respect, what does any of that have to with the fact you stated something on your website that was factually incorrect? Its the definition of “mislead”! Its not the “intention”, but the perception and or deception you “mislead” the public.

            Bottom line, had you even applied to become a 501c3? And do you have a business license within the city you are soliciting donations, conducting business and or with Humboldt County?

  • Mr. Stars,

    The point of LEGALIZATION is always TAX. The idea is to NOT recognize the throne. Equal means equal.

    What Humboldt has is latitude and proximity to the ocean. The unseen care – harvest after a full moon in the morning, respect for each HEMP plant, soil, nutrients etc., that of course makes a difference. Correct temp and humidity for drying, cure time, handling – the grower’s thoughts, all are a part of the finished product.

    It’s the sloppy language that halts communication- weed, pot, mj, cannabis. Humboldt County, The County of Humboldt. State of CA., California state. US, America. Notary Public, Public Notary. Legal, lawful.

    My statements probably don’t make sense to many. I don’t talk slave-speak. What the slave-masters can not do is make a “lawful” statement, ordinance, code, rule, regulation, statute etc. So what care I about phukking “LEGAL?”
    Do you really think this whole charade of taxing nature is within their subject matter jurisdiction? Are County Supes. the legislative branch? Do you believe it’s based on per capita? Do you believe that unincorporated counties can charge a 1/2% tax in the incorporated cities?

    When the Storm Troopers are trespassing on private property and destroying private property, they label their destruction “marijuana” plants. Not. Shall i repeat from Webster’s dictionary what marijuana is?

    Real eyes realize real lies.

  • An actual ecologist

    To clarify; best practices in indoor or outdoor result in fairly mild impact compared to many human activities. Best practice outdoor only trail indoor moderately. In both cases, any fossil fuel uses has to be offset. (this is more easily accomplished with indoor) In any case of agriculture or horticulture, the scale of the activity is potentially the primary source of ecological concern.

    I simply do not want people deceived (or self deceived) into thinking that one is inherently superior to the other. Both have the potential to be devastating. The spin of “sun grown” is distasteful greenwashing of what is predominantly a very destructive practice.

  • Redo regulations so our communities thrive. All who want can grow up to 100lbs. per year, approx. what a family needs. Non profits can test, distribute, sell to non profit dispensaries. Humboldt Canna cafés will attract tourists, ppl who can’t grow can clip, bringing health and happiness to ALL, not just the 1% who can afford the prohibitive charges. After decades of being denigrated and criminalized, do the right thing!🤨

    • So again, where do all these growers, that can grow up to “100lbs. per year, approx” get the water in No. Mendocino or So. Humboldt? GSD has stated they have 30 to 40 un-permitted commercial cannabis grows using their water, and it increases their demand and diversion by 15 to 20 % during the late growing season when the South Fork Eel is at its lowest flows. How do you expect to attract tourists if there is no water, does everyone just buy bottled water? No water to fight fires, No water for motels/hotels, No water for restaurants, No water for home owners and oh yeah, NO Water for salmon, frogs etc! You act like there is this unlimited amount of water in the South Fork Eel!

      Right now, GSD can divert, pump and treat water 24/7, to the maximum allowance per day (448,737 gallons per day or 10% of the flow) and still not be able to fill their storage tanks because the demand is so high! Don’t take water for granted.

      If you want to fix the problem, require all commercial cannabis grows to have 1 million gallons of storage each, to fill from December to May, to use during June thru November every year. But also remember, it wasn’t that many years ago, the first rains did’t start until February and on this day in 2014, the South Fork Eel was at 11 cfs @ the Sylvandale Bridge. Today its currently 22 cfs. When will it start raining this year?

      • Small time growers aren’t the problem. Place blame where it’s due, the greedy big growers! 20,000 plants does serious damage, to everything and everyone.

        • Whats the difference between 50 ~ 20,000 plant grows vs 1000 ~ 1000 plant grows or 2000 ~ 500 plant grows? And, if by some twist of fate, the price starts to go back up per lbs retail, how much more will they start growing? Most the growers never thought much about how they adversely effect the watershed before, where is the incentive to protect it now?

        • // “20,000 plants does serious damage, to everything and everyone.”//

          Size isn’t the problem … FAR more important than the size is where it’s done.

          20,000 plants on a farmers river bottom field that would otherwise be growing strawberries is literally a zero environmental impact change. Clearing out and excavating a slot on the side of the hill for 100 plants (resulting is silt migration) is a massive impact comparatively.


          • That’s not true. If the land is used for pot, humans still need additional land for strawberries. Pot is a money making want only- there is no need involved with it at all.

            • (I’ll not address your “no need at all” comment because we’ve demonstrated prohibition doesn’t work and this stuff WILL be grown and used)

              No one NEEDS strawberries — those are also a ‘want’. If the use of a strawberry field for cannabis creates a shortage of strawberries, then the price of strawberries rises slightly, less strawberries are bought and it all evens out. Simple market forces. One ‘want’ product traded for another ‘want’ product.

              More importantly from an environmental standpoint, this land use is replacing literally hundreds of silt migration causing slot cuts in the ET. The environment impacts of growing farm crops on farm land is net positive – and by a large margin.

              • If not strawberries, than another food crop is a need to stave off death by starvation. The particular name of the food crop is mostly irrelevant. The difference between a need (at least for non addicts or those who sell) and a want is that the lack of a need is death. The lack of a want is irritation but life goes on. This should be such an obvious thing that no one would want argue it. This is not prohibition for moral purposes but survival.

                All farming is not of equal worth and spending water on a luxury crop like pot should always be the bottom priority. Drinking water, sanitation water, food crops, environmental needs then fire prevention. Pot should not be taking water from anyone needing it for any of those reasons. Only where every other need is met should anyone consider letting pot growers have it and hijacking someone’s domestic water to grow pot should never be tolerated.

                I agree about not trying to turn land hard to farm into crop land. That what starts on a hillside ends up in the valley. But whether prohibition works or not is not established. For example there is a prohibition against murder. That it does not prevent every murder is a poor argument to eliminate the prohibition.

                • You’ve lost the prohibition battle. Over. Done.

                  The question now is the most environmentally friendly way to grow the crop — and farmland over mountain timberland is the obvious answer. QED.

                  BTW — assuming your ‘cannabis is just a luxury’ position is true, all your current ‘water should be prioritized’ arguments would of course apply to swimming pools and ornamental flowers and car washing and lawns and golf courses and fountains and and and on and on – all of which use more water than cannabis.

                  I sure hope you’re off working hard to get those orchid greenhouses in the central coast shut down since this principle is so important to you.

    • I’ve been doing ok growing 10-12 lbs a year for the last 20 years. 100lbs is what a family needs????
      That right there is the problem.

      • Flatgirl, please explain to us non-growing people, how many plants that represents and did you keep track of water use for irrigation?

      • 100 bows is a minimum wage job at this point.

        20 used to be enough to buy a new truck every year.

        The economics have changed.

      • Sure single ppl can get by on less. But at $1000 or less a lb, minus taxes, fees, testing, marketing, distribution..I figure half that. Then ppl would have time to volunteer in non profits. Maybe make that a requirement…The big growers are growing 1000s+lbs. as it stands. I’m open to a better all inclusive idea….

  • I understand that there will always be nattering nabobs of negativity like Ed, but if you are going to undertake marijuana growing, like many do around here, it’s important to know how to do it right. This area has a great climate for outdoor growing, we can do the job with no pesticides, fungicides or other nasty stuff, because of the dry climate. It takes Water, but less than many people use, if proper techniques are used. And it can be a far superior product to indoor if managed properly all through the many stages.
    Full sun, full term out door is the way to go, no doubt about it. Hands down.

    • Emily, its not every day you hear a quote attributed to Spiro Agnew. But it does fit your point of view.

      Maybe you can educate all of us, grower & non-grower, “how to do it right”; when it come to the diversion of surface water for irrigation of outdoor cannabis by thousands of growers all taking water out of the South Fork Eel watershed, at the same time, i.e. June thru October, when the South Fork Eel is at its lowest flows?

      For example, how is cultivation of non-permitted commercial cannabis a beneficial use for the South Fork Eel River; since the South Fork Eel is a listed and fully appropriated Wild & Scenic River (including fish bearing tributary’s type 1, 2 and 3 creeks and hydrologically connected springs or ground water) with listed threatened and endangered species, i.e. coho, chinook, steelhead salmon and Foothill yellow legged frog?

      By the way, I am not the one that is “negativity” degrading the water quality of the South Fork Eel River, I am merely pointing out that would be most of the un-permitted commercial cannabis growers in the SFER watershed!

      • Its not that hard to grow a weed. Growing a weed and selling it for a profit is the real trick. It was much easier to do when it was all illegal or wild-west medical. This is the real world kids.

      • I am only pointing out that ‘if’ one engages in this activity, then there is a best way to do it. You seem to just complain that no one should be doing it, which is a pretty ineffectual strategy in my opinion. Glad u liked the spiro Agnew reference i love saying it.. really rolls off the tongue. ✌️

        • Emily, to set the record straight; the South Fork Eel River watershed does not have the capacity or abundance of water to sustain the large volume of water needed for the cultivation of cannabis on the scale you are talking about, on top of the continued evolutionary life cycle of anadromous salmonids and now foothill yellow legged frogs! It won’t be long before the South Fork Eel looks more like the Mattole in late summer, early fall than it does now!

          Further more, the fact that thousands of growers, all of a sudden, all at once, now want to come from out of the hills, into the light of legalization and claim they know “best”? WTF! How come they didn’t know “best” when it was illegal?

          • What about the dam that diverts the water! No one talks about that

          • Your response has nothing to do with what I said. You just return to your handwringing about not enough water. The fact is we are the wettest part of California and have the least amount of Ag land. So maybe we should be showing use of our water here so it doesn’t get so easily appropriated elsewhere, as per CA Water law.
            I am an environmentalist and I definitely would like to see the fish and other wildlife around the rivers given more representation in the water fight. But I would also prefer Water stay in our county, which means we have to prove some use of it, whether it’s farming or for fish or whatever. That’s how the law works. You can’t argue that we should just have all the water so you can enjoy looking out your window at the scenery.

    • …we can do the job with no pesticides, fungicides or other nasty stuff, …”


      Emily, surely u jest.
      No successful crop is realised sans an IPM , and there are plenty of clean options for dealing with the molds and pests -which are inevitable due to the mass planting of a single crop in our county. Look! The powdery mildew is blowing in now on these cool wet nights, anyone who’s on it has been utilizing fungicides /miticides throughout the season and will end up with a fully mature and clean product, not some chewed on, pm riddled junk that no one wants at any price .

      • Only if you use clones, and that’s not what this post is about. Full sun seed grown outdoor doesn’t require any of the things I listed before. Too many people grow outdoor just like indoor, which is what causes the problems you list. Crowding, getting infected with bugs while being indoor and mono-genetics are the issues that are avoided with seed grown. You also avoid using any fussy lighting and generators; avoid using plastic for blacking out and greenhouse, and for those reasons it’s less expensive and less labor to produce. It’s too bad that so many people haven’t realized this.
        I know the newbies out there will scoff… but this is how we do it if we want to produce something a unique top shelf product in this area… we can never compete with the ag land that other areas have. We can’t grow big amounts in this county, so we should be known for best quality.

        • If quality is judged by what the buyers prefer and will pay for, I don’t currently know of a single retail outlet here in SoCal (the worlds biggest market btw) where ET weed is the top shelf. The best quality (highest price-point obtained) is essentially without exception indoor grown. People love it and stores can’t get enough.

          The ET in the hands of the right grower (few and far between) can grow some great weed, but this market has decided it’s a nostalgia play for the most part.

          Market realities.


          • The market has left most ET growers in the rear view mirror. Not sure how anyone could survive in this market. Don’t forget the impact that 6 plants per person is going to have on the market. Bud in Carlsbad is growing 24 legal patio monsters for his family. Ya think they are going to smoke 100 pounds of weed in a harvest? hell no. Giving the sh1t away.

            • If he’s in Carlsbad proper and ‘patio monsters’ means he’s not indoors, he’s not legal (and I promise you I don’t mind one bit).

              // “C. Cultivation of cannabis is prohibited, except indoors at a private residence… “//


              • Carlsbad is so d8mn an8l. “judicially recognized” my butt.

                No provision of the Carlsbad Municipal Code allows any cannabis operation or land use of any kind within any zone. The purpose and intent of this chapter is to clarify the intent of the Carlsbad Municipal Code to prevent the cultivation, delivery, distribution, and sale of cannabis within Carlsbad city limits to the fullest extent of the law.

                Commercial cannabis activity has judicially recognized adverse secondary effects on the community including, but not limited to, increases in crime in the vicinity of or as a result of the commercial cannabis activity; increases of fraud in obtaining or using state-issued identification cards and licenses; interference with residential property owners’ enjoyment of their properties when such properties are located in the vicinity of commercial cannabis activity as a result of increases in crime, litter, noise, and vandalism; and the deterioration of neighborhoods. Prohibition of commercial cannabis activity is necessary to prevent these adverse secondary effects and the blighting or degradation of the neighborhoods in the vicinity of commercial cannabis activity while at the same time protecting the rights of those individuals who desire to use cannabis within his or her private residence as authorized under the Adult Use of Marijuana Act.

        • Honestly I am hesitant to reply as your reply is delusional.

          “Only my clones and none of my seed plants are at risk of developing powdery mildew or pest infestation.”

          Said no seasoned grower ever.

          • I am a very unseasoned grower, in fact its my third recreational season. last year my two plants got attacked with stem rot and light brown fungus(?). this year I have four plants and thinking ahead I made a visqueen canopy for them in an attempt to curb the fuzzy stuff. i started noticing white spots on some leaves a few weeks ago and found you can just trim the leaves off. i understand that this could be time consuming if you have many plants but its better than burning something ending in cide because the process of burning a complex organic chemical produces and even more complex organic chemical that most likely is very toxin and probably never tested for toxicity. and who knows what you get when you spray 2 or more cides on it. the future of cannabis is clean cannabis. i would rather smoke mold and fungus, we all breath it in everyday anyway.

  • The economies of scale resulting from farming a farm crop on farm land is simply going to swamp farming a farm crop in timberland – there’s simply nothing that will stop that.

    I’m involved with an outdoor grow in Santa Barbara county that currently produces over 400lbs per day of dry flower plus trim, etc. Sun grown and organic (continuous auto strains till fall and then an 18acre lump of photo-period). Not only is this grow FAR more productive on a cost/lb basis than the fragmented grows in the ET, but dramatically more eco-friendly. If you simply calculated the fuels use on the farm for instance in totality, just the back and forth to town for the ET growers to get supplies would dwarf it (let alone the water issues).

    (Go ahead ET and say “It’ll be crappy quality, etc.”, while it’s being sold day in and day out for every bit as good a price as most of the ET gets.)

    I started growing in ’86 and even did a three year federal stint. Change with the times or die as a grower. The ET served its purpose, but it’s near the end of its useful life as an (non-timber) agriculture economy.

    “I wish I could grow my farm row crop on the sides of mountains” — said not a single farmer ever.


    • The effect of regional appellation is the wildcard. “Where to find authentic Carpinteria Valley Cannabis” – said no connoisseur guide, ever.

    • @JB. Well said. Location, location, location. Now that grows no longer have to hide the ET has lost its greatest attribute. The ET growers are getting priced out of business on both sides of the market. Can’t afford the cost to get legal, and can’t sell for a profit. Dazey’s biz must be way off yoy.

    • So 400lb a day all goes into the California legal market? Haha suuure. That’s the real elephant in the room

      • Don’t get caught up in small world syndrome Emily. You think the legal market is tiny? — It’s not. 400lbs a day is a drop in the bucket.

        Established farmers in the Central Coast (big in organic strawberries, raspberries, peppers, etc.) who have no history of weed haven’t invested millions to lose it all by stupidly thumbing at the State and County inspectors noses. The new world is a different mindset — it’s just one of many different crops to this guy. He’s only in it *because* it went legal.


        • The state estimated legal consumption at 7,000 pounds per day. Seems light.

        • Yeah right.. ask anyone who has grown here the last 30 years how much they sold ever stays in California. The CA legal market is a joke.. everyone is selling black market and everyone knows it.

          • There is not an incentive to go black market for a massive legal farm. Does Maker’s Mark sell corn liquor on the side?

            • You don’t understand the economics of the industry do you?

              • Emily – it’s you who apparently doesn’t understand the economics of this NEW industry where long time legal farmers who have invested millions in a working, legal business model aren’t about to risk those millions and that nicely profitable model on short term sales from the black market.

                Also, as someone intimately familiar with both markets, the grower I’m with is getting almost exactly the same amount through legal channels as he would be through illegal. I should know as I was brought on by the owner specifically as a distribution consultant.

                Moving 400lbs a day through the black market is perhaps harder than you think – and through the legal market much easier.

                Remember Emily, I’m not insinuating you aren’t knowledgeable regarding the old market — but that old market is fading.


          • Emily, as long as you’re stuck in the “last 30 years”, you’ll think you know it all (and that “everyone knows” you know it all).

            You and I have lived in an outlaw weed world for so long that it may be hard to imagine that there are people who are just plain jane, straight up, ‘legal product only’ farmers who have now added a new crop to the farm.

            The farmer I work with paid almost 7.5 million dollars for the piece where he grows (185 acres of land @ $39,500 per acre) two years ago. He didn’t buy it for cannabis and at that time had never even thought about growing that crop – it was just another addition to his extensive farm. It’s next to the highway and he knows the Highway Patrol and Sheriff by name as they drop by to say ‘hello’. No hiding, no back channels – just contract deals with big buyers. The risk/reward proposition to enter the black market simply isn’t attractive to him when he has a very successful business model in the legal world. He doesn’t even provide his own genetics … his buyers provide that and he just grows whatever they give him.

            Like most of his other agriculture products he grows, it’s sold before he plants it — he’s just a surrogate providing a fertile service.

            Different times Emily. Different world.

            Is there a lot of weed in CA going to the black market? Of course. That’s doesn’t in any way change the competitive balance however of growing a farm crop on farm land rather than on timber land.

            Forget regulatory issues (which are myriad), my ET family is getting strangled by market forces it literally has no response for.


            • I get what your saying, and I realize that small farms are on the way out. There is no doubt you are right about that. My point is, I believe the CA legal market is way overproduced at this point, all of CA’s Mj has always gone out of state. It is being artificially supported by black market sales. And once that is zeroed in on by the feds, it’s going to get ‘real’.
              That’s all I’m saying. Just the way I see it… I could be wrong but I don’t think so 😉
              I don’t see it as rosy as you do, obviously!
              It’s still federally illegal and too early to tell which way it going on that level.

              • // “I believe the CA legal market is way overproduced at this point” //

                As someone knee deep in the legal market currently, I assure you that it’s actually currently way under-produced. This is a short term problem but it’s real. The legal distribution chain is short on product (tour SoCal legal retail outlets if you doubt this).

                As compared to the list of cultivators who received temp state licenses, there are relatively few licensed growers who are actually currently producing. (Go check out that list btw and you’ll see that the large majority of those who received temps have already let them go).

              • // ” It is being artificially supported by black market sales. And once that is zeroed in on by the feds, it’s going to get ‘real’.” //

                So I’m trying to figure out what you mean by ‘artificially supported’ and ‘get real’. Are you seeing this impact making prices go up or down?

                I assume you mean that the market volume will fall and prices will drop — which would simply emphasize my point that the large scale (read ‘efficient’) producers will dominate as is simply a fact of life in agriculture.

                Sadly, the weed economy of the ET is toast as the monetary value of cannabis itself becomes driven by production costs free of the ‘risk premium’ threat of incarceration.

          • So why don’t you keep selling in the bm and shut up about it already, please. The world is full of winners, loosers, and whiners. Make a choice. Whats the problem? There is no crying in baseball.

            Face it the real problem isn’t legalization and permits and such, its the fact that the bm pricing has and will continue to spiral downward.

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