Mad at PG&E’s Power Outage? SoHum Man Getting Masters Degree in Energy Engineering at Stanford Says the Issue Is Complex

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UPDATE: Eli Kahan, who wrote the below letter, fixed errors in this in a second letter which you can access by clicking here.

power pole down

Who is to blame when PG&E goes down?

In response to frustration over the PG&E power outages:

I woke up [yesterday] to a call from my mom warning me to fuel up on gas and prepare for PG&E to shut off power. Like many other people in the northern part of the state, her work was canceled due to the outages, a loss of income in addition to the many challenges these power outages present. Throughout the day, I have heard many people venting their frustration over the outages, but most directly at PG&E. Some people blamed PG&E for “deferring maintenance for decades in order to maximize shareholder profits.” One of my friends wanted PG&E to pay for the groceries she was surely going to lose. Of course people are frustrated. These outages are greatly disruptive and can present serious challenges for many folks. However, the problem is not quite as simple as many people may think it to be.

I grew up in SoHum, went to Redway Elementary and South Fork High, and am now finishing up a Masters degree in Atmosphere/Energy Engineering at Stanford University. I have focused my undergraduate and graduate degrees on the energy field, as I hope to fight climate change by transitioning our world into a clean energy future. Throughout my education I have learned quite a bit about the energy industry and am often reminded that its issues are much more complex than they may seem on the surface. The PG&E outages are no exception. While I understand people’s frustration, I wanted to give more perspective on why these outages are occurring, and what responsibility PG&E may or may not hold.

Some people have claimed that PG&E should have invested in underground transmission lines to prevent fires. In fact, PG&E would love to do that because how they make their money is by investing in infrastructure. When they invest in infrastructure, they pass the costs on to us (the ratepayers) through our rates. They then get some percent rate of return on that infrastructure cost as their profit. If PG&E were to build underground transmission lines, which would be much more fire safe, they would actually make more money in the process.

Others have claimed that PG&E has neglected maintenance work like tree clearing near transmission lines in order to cut costs and increase their profits. However, these non-infrastructure investments, like cutting trees around transmission lines are also passed on to us in the form of the rates we pay. PG&E can’t make any profit on them, but they also will not lose any money either. Thus, PG&E has no incentive to skimp on doing maintenance.

Every few years, PG&E goes to the Public Utility Commission (PUC) and essentially tells the PUC that they need to spend x dollars on infrastructure and y dollars on maintenance. The PUC either approves or rejects these costs based on whether they think these expenditures are worth the money for us (the ratepayers). Building underground transmission lines is much more expensive than above ground lines, especially in forested and/or hilly areas like much of PG&E’s service territory. As such, in order to build these underground lines, we the ratepayers would have to pay much more in our electricity rates. PG&E would be happy to do this, as building infrastructure is how they make their profits. It is the PUC, who is looking out for us (the ratepayers), who would keep such infrastructure from being built on any large scale. However, if we as ratepayers think this cost is worth it to not have to worry about power lines starting fires or having PG&E turn off our power than we can advocate for such a position.

Similarly, PG&E would not incur any extra costs by doing extensive tree work around power lines. However, this work is costly to do on the scale it needs to be done and these costs would be passed right on to us, the ratepayers. Maybe PG&E has gotten enough money to do a good job on tree work, but has hired contractors who did not perform adequately. Or perhaps PG&E did not line them out correctly. I do not know the details. But the key point is that PG&E is not incentivized to make more money by skimping on this maintenance. In fact, it is just the opposite. PG&E does not want to start fires or have to turn off the power and cause blackouts because a) they aren’t some evil villain and b) because they don’t want to get sued and go bankrupt which is what happened last year. PG&E’s shareholders surely do not want their stock value to go to zero again. It is in PG&E’s best interest to keep up on maintenance and protect us from fires.

At the end of the day, the utility is put in a tough position in that they have limited funding from the PUC to do projects that would prevent fires, but they are held accountable for any fires their infrastructure causes. Having the power shut off sucks, but the issue is if the PUC approved more money for maintenance or building underground transmission lines, our bills would go up and people would be unhappy. On the other hand, if the PUC doesn’t approve these expenditures then we have an unsafe system that can cause fires and PG&E has to shut off power to avoid these fires. Either way, people will be affected and unhappy. It’s easy to get angry and want to have a scapegoat to vent our frustration at. But the reality is that this is a complex issue and it’s just simply a hard job to provide reliable power safely to people living all over (especially in very forested, mountainous areas like Humboldt) while keeping costs down so that our rates are not too high.

For the record, I am not trying to sway anyone to fall in love with PG&E. I just think it is important for people to understand the system that we live in and the complexity of these issues. When we better understand the issues, instead of wasting our energy in the wrong directions we are better able to work together towards constructive solutions.”

Eli Kahan

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Bushytails
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Bushytails
4 years ago

Sounds like the real problem, assuming what you say is true, is once again income inequality. If the people who actually work for a living weren’t all living so close to bankruptcy themselves, they’d be able to pay a little more for reliable electricity.

Guest 66
Guest
Guest 66
4 years ago
Reply to  Bushytails

So we should feel lucky that PG and E would be able to just charge the consumer for there problems , the only way that they get away with this is that they are a contracted monopolized corporation and our state does nothing to protect us . They are unable to take there own what they would call a loss of profit to reinvest in there own company, so the consumer must now pay for it . Why doesn’t the company itself take a small loss of profit to fix there own issues . That’s because it’s a criminal act to not give the profit to the shareholders instead of spending there own money to fix there own problems . That’s what happens when our state doesn’t protect us . Any other normal company could not get away with it because the consumer would have a choice to use another company for there services .

Igg
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Igg
4 years ago
Reply to  Guest 66

Go open another electric company them

Powertothepeople
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Powertothepeople
4 years ago
Reply to  Igg

We need publicly owned/controlled utilities… otherwise we get screwed by a corporate monopoly. The share holders keep all the profits and we get stuck with the bill for any necessary maintenance or problems that arise.

Alan Holm
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Alan Holm
4 years ago

U did not read this article.

Guest66
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Guest66
4 years ago
Reply to  Alan Holm

Yes everyone read it . The consumer shouldn’t have to have the bill passed down to them for fixing infrastructure , pacific gas and electric should pay for it themselves . Then they don’t need approval from PUC. PUC makes sure the consumer doesn’t get the costs passed down to consumer. You should read it again maybe . The smart guy with the degree that is stating all the facts for this article didn’t understand it either . Or he is trying to trick people into thinking that pacific gas and electrics hands are tied or else they would fix the infrastructure. Nice try .

Wade D Rowley
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Wade D Rowley
4 years ago

You mean like Puerto Rico?

Guest 66
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Guest 66
4 years ago
Reply to  Igg

No one can open another company there a monopoly smart guy . That’s exactly what I’m saying . Your part of the problem .

Guest1
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Guest1
4 years ago
Reply to  Guest 66

Thanks

Gbear
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Gbear
4 years ago
Reply to  Guest 66

By all means live off the grid or zip your lip. It’s hard to please people geez. Waaaaahhh my pge bill is high, pge caused the fires, fuck man. Then pge try’s to make it safe on a red flag warning day by shutting the power off then you complain about that. Wtf.

Guest66
Guest
Guest66
4 years ago
Reply to  Gbear

You should zip your lips, its people like you that are the problem . Your whining about people you think are whining. People died because pg and e irresponsibility. If it affected you personally you’d be wahwahwahing . It’s hard to please people when people are profiting when hundreds of people lost there lives and thousands of people lost there homes . You sound ridiculous. Think before you write .

memyselfandi@gmail.com
Guest
4 years ago
Reply to  Bushytails

Yes!! That is the personal piece and there is a systemic piece too.

Income inequality is what has allowed the greediest 5% not pay into the tax coffers to do the preventative investments in our infrastructure that only can be done by a village, a group….economy of scale , which for now we only allow extremely large corporations to leverage. Income inequality led to many not having time, energy nor technology to get educated . Our country should have been a leader in energy saving technology and had underground wires long ago. Holland/Netherlands I lived there 30 years ago and noticed that everything looked nicer…..they had not above ground wires which also has no doubt made cable installation easier now too for technology. My friends there live an excellent life with 6 weeks off a year and pay high taxes as does everyone in that country and there are tons of supports for those who are unemployed etc. They are often inundated with folks coming from countries that are not doing their civic duty and that is an extra burden but if we start following their example and with all our resources we’d be a better place for everyone to live.

Guest 66
Guest
Guest 66
4 years ago
Reply to  Bushytails

I don’t feel bad that the monopoly of pacific gas and electric didn’t save up enough money to maintenance there own money making vehicle which is there electricity pipeline system which is power lines . They should have been updating there infrastructure for years. Seems like it would be a smart thing to do to protect there own investment and there investors best interest . Mismanagement to the highest extent by the ceo that got payed huge bonuses.

cheers
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cheers
4 years ago
Reply to  Guest 66

Seems like a whole generation or 2 of not investing much back into public infrastructure of any kind, really.

Chelle W
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Chelle W
4 years ago
Reply to  Guest 66

Who said they weren’t? Did you read the article?? The PUC has to approve their spending! ???

Guest66
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Guest66
4 years ago
Reply to  Chelle W

They have to approve it if there going to turnaround and charge the consumer higher rates . Meaning the consumer would pay to fix pg and e own profit vehicle which is the power lines instead of the company using its huge profits to pay the bill for upgrading there own system .

Stacia Erckenbrack
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Stacia Erckenbrack
4 years ago
Reply to  Bushytails

In my opinion this is all well and good information but has nothing to do with the insensitive and unprofessional manner in which this man-made emergency was implemented. The CA pge shutoff was not surgical at all and unnecessarily widespread. And even when the ceos were dining in SonomaCa right before shutoff, they knew it was for sure yet the public wasn’t for told for sure until lights were off. I know personally of some elderly and vulnerable populations that suffered. Elderly neighbor at home alone with 2 candles, no phone or cell service, no well water. Her husband had just gone into hospital.
The detailed information in this intelligent peice by an informed person in masters program tells a lot about the infrastructure etc but still doesn’t explain how the ceos of pge ask for raises even after the fire deaths etc , don’t do their jobs, etc and pull the plug on much of California like a monopoly game.

James Montgomery
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James Montgomery
4 years ago

Exactly.

It is a political stunt enacted by this criminal (felony probation) entity who keeps killing people with spectacular and willful negligence. They are trying to wiggle out of responsibility, and frame reality differently than it is.

The author points to his newly minted shiny hat, but I will point out that such articles are compelling on the resume for someone with such a degree. Basic BASIC conflict of interest, and should absolutely NOT be taken at face value. This is written by a man who likely will be rewarded for brown nosing PG&E.

What I have seen with my own fancy hat (first responder), is that after voters partially deregulated PG&E, basic maintenance and response to deadly and dangerous downed lines, became deplorable.

I carried personal numbers of local linemen because the company would not dispatch to downed lines until *volunteer* firefighters “checked it out” for them. Usually the lines in question were 12k distribution lines, and several people were killed in my community during this time period. Firefighters cannot turn the lines off, and it is not their job to do so. And 12k distribution lines will turn the average human into a smoking piece of carbon.

The Real Brian
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The Real Brian
4 years ago

Holy cow.

An article that is grounded by reason.

Thanks Eli, for writing something up regarding people’s frustrations re PGE.

Good luck on the studies and your work.

Guest
Guest
Guest
4 years ago
Reply to  The Real Brian

Shockingly refreshing. But of course, even saying that it’s complex can be an excuse for inefficiency. The watchdogs have political interests they serve, the public has their demands, the companies have their interests and the government is interested in avoiding responsibility for both. Paying more for the true costs of what we use as individuals would help ensure integrity but would hardly be popular.

MDOregon
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MDOregon
4 years ago

Yes! Thank you for your intelligent and sensible commentary. I don’t understand all of these people who insist or on being disgruntled and feeling victimized in order to make excuses for their own sense of entitlement and lack of personal responsibility.

Sincere best wishes for your future endeavors.

Cindy
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Cindy
4 years ago
Reply to  MDOregon

so true & thank you Eli for your info. People need to be less selfish/self-centered & be responsible for their lack of emergency preparation also. People quit having to blame someone for things that don’t go your way 🙂

onlooker
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onlooker
4 years ago
Reply to  Cindy

Why is it that when an individual runs out of gas, they have personal responsibility for lack of preparation, but when a corporation fails in its duty to make their powerlines safe, it’s because it is a complex issue?

Why is it that rural, inner city, impoverished and minority communities get public safety power shutdowns, but adjacent wealthy white enclaves keep the lights on? They’re on the same power grid. That doesn’t seem like a complex issue at all.

Guests
Guest
Guests
4 years ago
Reply to  onlooker

Onlooker,
thanks.

If this were Beverly Hills, there isn’t a chance in hell they would have done this. They just think that we won’t say anything so they try whatever they want. Somebody probably died or was terribly injured as result of this, hope they sue them, them on their yachts, drinking expensive wines, grabbing up 8 million dollar salaries, greedy bastards for this while we froze in the dark.

guest
Guest
guest
4 years ago
Reply to  onlooker

Double that.

JB
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JB
4 years ago
Reply to  onlooker

The wealthiest enclaves of the Bay Area (Atherton, Los Gatos, etc) were shut down.

Facts matter (but not to you).

guest
Guest
guest
4 years ago
Reply to  JB

Facts do matter.

The “wealthiest enclaves of the Bay Area” were spared the earliest rounds of shutoffs, and, AFTER work and school on Wednesday evening, they spent just a few hours in the dark — long enough for a little game of MONOPOLY.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/10/09/map-where-are-the-pge-outages-and-when-will-the-power-come-back/

JB
Guest
JB
4 years ago
Reply to  guest

Thanks for correcting yourself and demonstrating that no area of California, rich or not, is exempt from electrical shutdowns when the fire danger reaches the appropriate threshold.

You just ate your own argument with your own evidence.

guest
Guest
guest
4 years ago
Reply to  JB

You can’t read.

Guest 66
Guest
Guest 66
4 years ago
Reply to  Cindy

How do you not understand that a company made billions of dollars off of a monopoly and didn’t even fix its own power lines along the way until there power lines are in such bad shape it killed hundreds of people and destroyed tens of thousands of homes . The company was lucky enough to get a contract for business with absolutely no competitors and you want to call us selfish. Your thinking is ridiculous.

John Keller
Guest
John Keller
4 years ago
Reply to  MDOregon

“Sense of entitlement”? The little folks are not justified in expecting the state-sanctioned monopoly “public utility” to provide a key element of modern society?

How about the sense of entitlement that “investors” continue to have, and the sense of entitlement that PG&E executives feel when getting large bonuses after they sailed the ship into an iceberg? Profit without actual work…that’s entitlement.

“Feeling” victimized? The public IS being victimized. These BSPS un-natural disasters are far more “punishment” and politics than actual technical need. The absolutely callous, corporatist mentality of “you should be prepared” is beyond belief. Prepared for DAYS of power outages, due to choices of the elite?! Not everyone has hundreds of dollars and the storage area for a generator and many gallons of fuel for such “preparations.” We are blessed in having the means. Millions do NOT.

San Bruno was the smoking gun of PG&E “leadership.” It didn’t involve electricity, trees, or wind. Just greed and “so what?”

Maxwell
Guest
Maxwell
4 years ago

But surely, if they weren’t shelling out so much money for salaries well into/over six figures plus bonuses to folks that are already quite well off, they would have more of those limited funds to invest in preventing fires, yes? Because we depend upon them to provide the service, and since the shareholders will be ultimately fine in the long run even if PG&E folds and has to get subsumed by some other energy provider, then isn’t the “concern for the company’s well-being” sort of a silly concept?

Necessary utilities shouldn’t be privatized for profit. Period. Bushytails up there is right, in that income inequality is the problem: allowing individuals to own monopolistic utility providers is a big part of why things are so inequitable.

Guest
Guest
Guest
4 years ago
Reply to  Maxwell

But nationalizing has a poor history of abuse too. The quality of our utilities is a direct reflection of the public’s quality. I suspect that we actually get more from them than we deserve, not the reverse, because it’s a matter of money.

guest
Guest
guest
4 years ago
Reply to  Maxwell

Maxwell, I agree with you. 100%

flamingt
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flamingt
4 years ago

This article (the writer) has good insights, but the other problem is, PG&E has private investors and they want their dividends. Those dividends could very well have been thrown back into infrastructure. But I do agree, that when management makes bad decisions, especially the contracting of tree trimmers, that is evident by the shape of the trees that are growing around the wires.

Guest
Guest
Guest
4 years ago
Reply to  flamingt

Low bid subcontracting is a very slippery concept. It results in a lot of short cuts because responsibility is shifted away from those who hire them. The current companies have been better for me than they were 5 or 10 years ago.

memyselfandi@gmail.com
Guest
4 years ago
Reply to  flamingt

that is our choice, or has been, as a culture to let our utilities be run by an expectation for never ending increased profits.

Judy
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Judy
4 years ago

Great article! Thanks for opening my eyes to meet the reality of the situation.

Land of the fee
Guest
Land of the fee
4 years ago

https://ibew1245.com/about-ibew-pge/ Top dog greed mongers and haters. Enjoy the darkness, you paid for it.

Guest
Guest
Guest
4 years ago

Too muchbottom of the pack whining and snatching kills quality too. They take smaller bites but, because there are so many more of them, they actually do more damage.

Land of the fee
Guest
Land of the fee
4 years ago

Note the key words. “THE POWER IS IN OUR HANDS” and “We’re not done yet!” https://ibew1245.com/about-ibew-pge/

Omnomnonimous
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Omnomnonimous
4 years ago

I am very happy to see these points finally made in such an articulate but easy to understand way. It’s just a shame it can’t be condensed into a single poorly spelled sentence Facebook rant so it’s more accessible to the loudest complainers.

Peter is a Dick
Guest
Peter is a Dick
4 years ago

Informative and compelling. If I was to grade this paper it would be an A however, I would have given a bit of percentage off due to the fact that you should never end a sentence with a preposition. “It’s easy to get angry and want to have a scapegoat to vent our frustration at.” Eli didn’t need to end his sentence with the word at. It was perfect without it. Bravo!

Guest
Guest
Guest
4 years ago

Imagine a world where the advantages people get garner as much attention as the disadvantages. The first thing I heard when the news came in a business was one man saying it was PG&E’s revenge for people sueing them. As if his go to self centered paranoia was everyone’s. Maybe some in PG&E might think it in passing but only little minds are controlled by it.

Can we have better? Yes. But first the reality of better needs to be defined. Do city people’s desire for cheap and endless power control the risk that country people must take? Does providing power to rural places have to be subsidized by city people? It’s a compromise that is not well served by identity politics that rule California where who gets what is more important than what they get.

ganasini
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ganasini
4 years ago

Thanks Eli. That was really well thought out and written!

Sparky
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Sparky
4 years ago

Thanks to Eli for writing something that is not knee jerk idiocy. So to put it another way is that PGE turned off the power so their lines would not cause a fire that they would be sued for and owe hundreds of billions of dollars because the wind blew down lines or blew trees into the lines. They went bankrupt because they were sued and lost about the Santa Rosa fire and probably other fires a couple years ago. They can’t possibly make all their power lines weather safe from fire. Your $100 monthly bill wold be $200 or $400 or more. And it would take years and years and more fires. A solution is that they would not be responsible for fires if a weather event blew lines down or whatever. Of course they would have to show that they are doing everything reasonable to maintain their lines. But not being able to be sued for hundreds of billions of dollars would make it so they would not have to turn the power off. I suspect that they will be turning the power off much more often now. If for nothing else, to show what they need to do to not go bankrupt because of a weather event.

onlooker
Guest
onlooker
4 years ago

Good points. But the complexity of the issue includes values such as overpaying and bonusing the ineptitude, greed, or lack of foresight (you can pick whichever combination that pleases you) that helped to create the crisis. It includes the fact that PGE has lobbied with all of its considerable weight to prohibit local public utility districts that would employ locals while providing for our power needs. I didn’t see any mention of the simple fact that the problem isn’t all about PGE : it’s really that the grid itself is unsustainable, dangerous and outdated in concept and design. We don’t need massive energy infrastructure that loses 50% or more of what it produces in transmission, located in rural areas and then transmitting hundreds of miles if not more (and losing power) to urban areas.

There’s a wise old saying: when you find yourself in a rut, stop digging.

What we need is local power production and local transmission. Using the opportunities that abound in urban areas. We need to rethink the entire power infrastructure, and challenge the assumptions that what exists today is the best or the only approach. We have to stop building more massive infrastructure on top of the shaky foundation of big dams, nukes, coal and now, massive solar arrays all linked by outdated, unmaintainable and dangerous lines. Small, local, redundant systems that don’t kill wildlife or rivers are the only smart, climate- and earth-friendly way to go.

There are tremendously exciting opportunities for new thinking and innovation. The question really is, how do we change our energy system, nof how do we protect or maintain what’s here

guest
Guest
guest
4 years ago
Reply to  onlooker

“What we need is local power production and local transmission.”

Right on. I totally agree.

Matthew Rooney
Guest
Matthew Rooney
4 years ago

how about having a few years of decreased profit for the share holders
oh it sure is a bummer when PG&E shareholders dont get 15% returns
make our municipalities and educational systems Public in operation for Public interest – not private profit

rollin
Guest
rollin
4 years ago

Invariably, this is what happens when you merge “private” with public. Then, invariably, people blame “private” companies, capitalism, corporations etc. when these companies are private in name only. Thanks to our public school system, people are too stupid to read that article and walk away with a conclusion other than: it’s the corporations maaaan! The writer points out that PG&E has no incentive to not put power lines under ground or cut trees away; they don’t lose any money in that endeavor!!!. They have to beg the PUBLIC utilities commission for money (not private), who are bureaucrats and say no, because their only incentive is not to piss off the public with higher utility costs. Then, when the SHTF, said bureaucrats know people will blame the “private” company. And round and round we spiral down the toilet of socialism masquerading as capitalism.
An actual private company, actual capitalism, would be well aware of the cost of NOT maintaining power lines and the disastrous consequences that would lead to lawsuits and drive them out of business. If for no other reason other than the so called greed of wanting to stay in business (profits maaaan), the problem would be addressed. Additionally, an actual private company wouldn’t pay exorbitant salaries and benefits either. Those rates would be dictated by competition. Contrary to what Bernie and the rest of the brain dead left thinks, profits keep things in check. Socialism destroys.

Alan Mathison
Guest
Alan Mathison
4 years ago

One issue that is never mentioned is home owners responsibility. I lost my house in the Valley Fire, and I can tell you for a fact that all most no one had 100’ of defendable space. Do we have a responsibility to clear our property of trees? My 1/2+ acre had 31 trees on it, as did most other places. My yard was maintained, but the trees were what made us want to live there. What do you think would happen if you were made to clear your property for fire prevention ? Something to ponder.

Dave Kahan
Guest
Dave Kahan
4 years ago
Reply to  Alan Mathison

And thank you, Mr. Mathison, for bringing up an important and relevant topic. Up front disclosure: I am the letter author’s father, and derive much of my income from designing and implementing defensible space and other restorative forestry projects.

It is rare in my experience to hear home/landowners speak of, much less advocate for, personal responsibility in this field. Kudos to you for doing so, and my sincere condolences on the loss of your home. But clearing all trees is swinging the pendulum too far in the opposite direction and certainly not necessary to achieve fire safety. Reducing the overall volume of fuels, and modifying their structure and arrangement, will preclude the likelihood of a wall of flame reaching your doorstep, and allow firefighters to even consider defending the home. Space out the trees and shrubs, prune them, and prioritize removal of flashier (kindling-like) fuels, more volatile foliage, and any dead material. If done with skill and care, it will often if not usually improve the aesthetics. Don’t ignore the human-derived fuels; the fire makes no distinction. There are many publications on defensible space; this has been my favorite for solely that aspect: https://srcity.org/DocumentCenter/View/4776
Ironically, it was written for the Sonoma area that burned in 2017, and warned of what recently occurred.

The vast majority of buildings that burn in wildfires ignite from windblown embers that land in a “receptive fuelbed,” or vulnerable spot. Since embers can travel up to two miles in extreme conditions, defensible space will not prevent them from landing on the house. This fantastic paper, co-authored by our UC Extension Forest Advisor Yana Valachovic, provides a clear and comprehensive guide on how to harden a home to make it disinclined to ignite in the first place:
https://anrcatalog.ucanr.edu/pdf/8393.pdf
For years I’ve been advising friends and clients that fire hardening the home is fully 50% of the equation for protection from wildfire. While roaming a devastated subdivision near Calistoga (in the Wine Country fires) in October 2017 looking for hazard trees to mitigate (my present role in wildfire suppression is as a tree faller), I realized that in a situation like that, that fire hardening the home is MORE than 50% because the fire was carried house to house and essentially skipped over the vegetation between. Houses spread out on 20-40 acre parcels were mostly gone but the foliage on the vegetation in between them was scorched from the heat of the house fires but not consumed. Pictures I’ve seen of the Camp fire look to be similar. As Stephen Pyne put it so well (https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/stories-fires-tell), essentially what began as a wildland fire transitioned into an urban fire. At that point it’s pretty much all about how hardened the buildings are. People often remark on the seeming randomness of homes burned vs not in wildfires. I and increasingly others, believe strongly that it’s much less random than suspected and more due to the level of fire hardening. AB38 was just passed by our Assemblymember Wood, and includes a revolving loan fund for hardening homes. It is truly the missing link in wildfire resiliency. Some projects are pricey, some are not. It does take attention to detail, however.

My goals include contributing to many more success stories of homes surviving wildfires, such as the two from the Camp fire in Paradise detailed in this excellent article: https://www.sacbee.com/news/state/california/fires/article227665284.html
Living with Wildfire in NW California
(https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fseprd628285.pdf) was recently updated by the Humboldt county Fire Safe Council and Forevergreen Forestry (Tracy Katelman). It is also an excellent resource, both generally and locally, and highly recommended.

My landline phone is 707-926-5351 (no text, no caller id), if anyone is interested in a consultation or discussion.

In summation, for what it’s worth, it is already law that folks create and maintain defensible space. It’s also (along with the hardened home) the best insurance one can invest in. It does not necessitate clear cutting. Building codes since 2008 are better than before, but still do not rise to the level of insuring a hardened home. Personal responsibility and common sense should be enough to motivate folks to prepare themselves for more than just evacuation.

Sinbad of Sohum
Guest
Sinbad of Sohum
4 years ago
Reply to  Dave Kahan

Roof Top Sprinkler system has saved a few homes in the Thomas Fire.

Defensive space is just one part of the equation.

Great info just the same.

yesmeagain
Guest
yesmeagain
4 years ago
Reply to  Dave Kahan

Thanks, Dave. Your comments are always full of facts and useful advice. Obviously your son is following in your footsteps! Eli’s comments cause me to rethink my attitude toward PG&E — an easy target, granted, but maybe it’s not so simple. Someone once said that the more complex a problem is, the more that people want simple answers. It’s that dang human nature.

cheers
Guest
cheers
4 years ago
Reply to  Dave Kahan

https://anrcatalog.ucanr.edu/pdf/8393.pdf is an excellent article. Thank you!

cheers
Guest
cheers
4 years ago
Reply to  Dave Kahan

” While roaming a devastated subdivision near Calistoga (in the Wine Country fires) in October 2017 looking for hazard trees to mitigate (my present role in wildfire suppression is as a tree faller), I realized that in a situation like that, that fire hardening the home is MORE than 50% because the fire was carried house to house and essentially skipped over the vegetation between. ”

Same happened in the Redwood Valley fire which had very high winds.

thx for discussion
Guest
thx for discussion
4 years ago

thx eli for great article. crazy that to manipulate power in oakland hills we have to close schools here.

my two cents: when you think about the outdated equip, too large a service area etc., it all points to we need a local system. local people employed, local energy produced and delivered, local costs and revenue, everything. eric kirk and onlooker are right.

would take lots of work but be so worth it.

James
Guest
James
4 years ago

the capitalist will never sacrifice their profit for safety. This is just another scam to undermine faith in government and pull a coup like they did putting the Republicans in charge with Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Ben Round
Guest
Ben Round
4 years ago

Appreciate you sharing your knowledge to support your home community. Thoughtful.
Those of us who have known you at points along your life know you are a smart and caring person. Good to know you have chosen to focus your education on a growing industry that can also provide you many opportunities for advancement, while you would be in service to our culture.
What I encourage you to think about, study and, when the time is right (in a comment below and/or in future social media postings), let’s examine alternative solutions beyond PG&E.
As an off grid person, during the ‘outage’ I was focusing on the advantages of diversified, more regionalized power systems. This is one solution to consider (as well as breaking up the PG&E monopoly and/or making the company(s) public).
A recent pattern in the energy (transmission) industry is to try to squelch the burgeoning (primarily) solar home-based power revolution. The referred to “pattern” threatens PG&E’s business model (read: shareholders) and control: That trend is, after years of allowing homeowners who have installed ‘rooftop’ solar generating systems to get lower rates as they feed their power into the grid (a lovely, simple idea that could support smaller generating systems!), utilities across the country are now increasing the rates of those contributors, by 300-400%! So they want to take away the ‘incentives’ to install solar. (That is just one tactic to retain control).
So Eli. Please accept my invitation to take this conversation deeper. You know this creative and independent community here in So Hum/ No Mendo would relish the opportunity to consider the possibilities.
And! If not here, on RHBB, or possibly in addition to sharing your knowledge in writing, next time you are home for a week or more, consider scheduling a community meeting where you (and others?) can lead a discussion about this vital issue. I have no doubt, not only that it would be fascinating, but surely another fine way for you to give back to your ‘hometown’.
Read this article as an example of the “pattern” I refer to above: https://qz.com/115703/why-power-companies-dont-want-you-putting-a-solar-panel-on-your-roof/

jay peltz
Guest
jay peltz
4 years ago

Here is some other information to put what’s happening with PGE in context.
PGE has some of the highest rates of electricity, along with the other California IOU’s ( investor owned utilities) in the continental USA. SMUD ( Sacramento) has by far the lowest rates, and funny its a municipal owned, IE the people in Sacramento county are owners, its a CO-OP, non profit. There are some 900 coops in the USA most in the mountain states, mostly in conservative republican leaning rural areas all which have some of the lowest prices and best run utilities.
PGE was deregulated in the late 90’s by our Legislators, and after that our rates skyrocketed and since then PGE has been bankrupt twice. Where is the CPUC and our legislators in overseeing this? Yes they are also very much at fault and that whole organization needs to be reworked.

Here is a link to a good article that references a damning piece by the Wall Street Journal about PGE. WSJ did a FOIA and got 1000’s of documents about PGE showing how badly its run, corrupt and how oversight has been non existent. The judge in the bankruptcy case thinks so much of the WSJ article that it is requiring PGE to answer it paragraph by paragraph.
Read this article its amazing.
https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2019/10/unsustainable-california-no-easy-remedy-for-pge-blackouts-fire-risks.html

A few other historical bits to keep in mind when you think about PGE. The San Bruno gas explosion which happened some 10 years ago. PGE falsified ( lied) about the integrity of the pipeline. Instead of upgrading it, they just pushed up the pressure so they could move more gas, the result many people were killed and houses destroyed. They were found totally at fault and that they lied about the pipeline reports. So where are the regulators? How is this even possible? The ex CEO of PGE “retired” after the Paradise fire, and got a retirement package of $28 million dollars.
Here is another thing, SDGE ( San Diego utility) has had for years metering on its wind sensitive power lines. They have wind speed meters and cameras to keep an eye on things. They have know for years about the changes in the weather and have been taking steps to deal with it. PGE, nada, PGE doesn’t even know the ages of some 30% of its towers! The tower that failed in the Paradise fire is 100 years old.

To Eli’s point about its not in PGE’s interest to not do maintenance, I agree you’d think they should want to do it, they get paid to do it. But PGE’s job is to maximize share holder profit. Its estimated that 25% of our bills are profit to shareholders. If PGE can skimp on what’s its doing, ( they have been successfully sued 1000’s of times for not doing maintenance work such as tree trimming) but they are billing us for that work!
How to fix it? It’s time to kill PGE as an IOU and turn it into a coop or state run utility. PGE have proven that they cannot be trusted. At the very least we need to re-regulate PGE, put them under a microscope of financial and technical oversight to make sure they are doing what they say they are doing.
And this major power event which is in a major way caused by the lack of maintenance on the part of PGE and PUC to be an impetus for change, otherwise it’ll be wasted. Please call your state reps and demand a public take over of PGE, or re-regulation, reduction in profits for PGE/shareholders, and better oversight.

I totally want to thank all the PGE people who work on the ground, I am only upset at the heads of PGE, the people who set the policies which include the CPUC and our state legislators.

Barbara Rincon
Guest
Barbara Rincon
4 years ago
Reply to  jay peltz

and don’t forget Hinkley Ca., the town poisoned by PGE as depicted in the movie Erin Brockovich. Their track record for lying is high.

Harlan R Lawler
Guest
4 years ago
Reply to  jay peltz

spot on

Katherine George
Guest
Katherine George
4 years ago
Reply to  jay peltz

I actually remember my parents pg&e bills when I was much younger. Their logo was the “More you used the Cheaper it costs”. Wish we had saved some of those old bills.

Wow
Guest
Wow
4 years ago
Reply to  jay peltz

Thank you jay!!!
Let’s demand our king salmon plant be for us and run by a small local company; and take away pge corporate charter!
Lets have some healthy competition in our market place!

This is exactly why folks have been protesting huge corporations and the monopolies they make.

Damn Dave Kahan and Jay Peltz laying down wisdom!!! Two guys who are worth listening to, they know their stuff!!

guest
Guest
guest
4 years ago
Reply to  jay peltz

Jay and Barbara, you guys got this figured out. I’m impressed. Thank you all so much for sharing your insights.

Growley
Guest
Growley
4 years ago

Almost all of these points apply to AT&T, as well. The added strain for the phone company is that they have a lot more competition in every part for their costumer dollars, and are still the only company that is qualified to install, repair, and replace 99% of the actual structure that delivers communications.

Ice
Guest
Ice
4 years ago

This would make sense if PGE had to turn off Humboldts’ power due to a real fire risk. But they didnt have to. The risk was inland, and after talking to 2 PGE linemen I know was informed that it is very easy to isolate Humboldts electricity from the Shasta area by switching stations at Tompkins Hill and Korbel. But they didnt due to cost. It was cheaper for them not to. So we had a power outage here so PGE could save money. Also, was told on the phone by PGE office that the Humboldt Bay plant does not exist to help in local outages, but to “feed power into the grid for more populated areas”. So, to sell out of the area and make more money..I have no problem with the power being turned off to prevent a real emergency, but this local outage was all about money for PGE stockholders….

For sure
Guest
For sure
4 years ago
Reply to  Ice

PGE makes HUGE profits…they need to stop paying their executives such astronomical salaries & put money into infrastructure. Humboldt needs to have a separate source, rather than lose our power because a whole other region is at risk. It’s preposterous for people to not be able to go to their jobs because a totally different area is windy. We all know that the huge grids are gonna be a huge downfall for life as we know it…only a matter of time now. We are in free fall, but because we haven’t splatted to the ground yet, we choose to remain in denial. A big part of the ” back to the land” was because it felt like collapse was gonna happen any minute! 50 years later, it feels the same way-but 50 years isn’t even a blink in the aeons of Earths time. In the 80s, Helen Caldicott showed us why the whole planet was already in intensive care, and heading towards terminal. Be reminded of the late, great John Trudell’s words, “Your intelligence is your medicine.”

Guests
Guest
Guests
4 years ago
Reply to  Ice

Ice,
I concur.

John Keller
Guest
John Keller
4 years ago

The time for statewide Public Power has come.

“Investor-owned utility” tells us all we need to know. A service as critical to modern society as electricity transmission & distribution cannot be a means to amass profit without actual work (“dividends”).

Public power, such as one has with SMUD or LA DWP, is always lower-cost and equally- or more-reliable than “investor-owned” operations. Excess revenue (“profit”) from public power is invested back into infrastructure, not into the bank accounts of the rich.

Some of us remember when the typical legal trick was used to convert “Pacific Gas & Electric” to Profits Going Elsewhere, back in the 1990s. That’s even before Enron, when “PGE Corporation” was set up as an insulator to protect “shareholder value.”

Is PG&E management alone in causing this problem? No, of course not. Their allies and shills within the CPUC and in Sacramento are equally culpable. The regime in Sacramento declared PG&E “too big to fail,” and passed legislation that offloads liability for over two decades of Profits Going Elsewhere to “ratepayers” (that’s you, sucker). PG&E should be allowed to fail, which would make the conversion to Public Power even easier…rock-bottom purchase of PG&E infrastructure which the gouged “ratepayers” have morally purchased over many decades. Would Public Power incur infrastructure upgrade costs? Yes, unfortunately. But would it not be better that we simply excise the parasites (“investors”) from the equation, and also eliminate the abhorrent behavior of handing out huge bonuses to PG&E executives amidst bankruptcy?

As for technical “need” for these BSPS un-natural disasters, do other states not have trees or wind? Why is this wholly synthetic blackout needed only in Northern California? Why were the blackouts not needed over the many decades of PG&E service prior to now? “Climate change”? Oh, bull….. Again, do neighboring states not suffer from the same issues of flora overgrowth or wind…or “climate change”? “Climate change,” far more than an actual pathological threat, has become the new excuse for “you’re gonna pay MORE, suckers.”

Harlan R Lawler
Guest
4 years ago
Reply to  John Keller

well said

Geeses
Guest
Geeses
4 years ago
Reply to  John Keller

John Keller,
thanks 100%.

Monster
Guest
Monster
4 years ago

“PG&E has no incentive to skimp on doing maintenance.”

This argument claim completely flies in the face of past history involving PG & E paying Davey Tree to do the job right and not nickel ‘n dime the big stuff.

PG & E put themselves in this position by being too cheap and screwing around this decade with companies that did the proper maintenance. Davey Tree was financially pushed out of Humboldt and ended up reduced to the Shasta account. At best, there is sporadic work available in job listings for power pole maintenance. The work presence simply isn’t what it used to be and now we are all paying the price for it.

Jackie
Guest
Jackie
4 years ago

I was listening to the radio yesterday, was saying that pge wanted to put some device on lines so they only had to shut offcertains areas, like ones where fire is more likely to happen from the lines. Also wanted to clear away under trees (forget the word that’s used clear something I think), anyway also trees that are dying and clear out trees and replant. Clear areas for back fire I think it’s called. Clear out areas where trees aren’t so close if there is a fire so only have to fight fire in one area. But then you have environmentalists that say no so they burn instead. Well there was a bill sent to Sacramento was passed then vetoed.
Something about wanted to get rid of fossil fuel, and be more green you might say. All in all government to blame too.
Yes we are never happy with anything. Hopefully this teaches everyone something. Yea greedy people take it out on the little people.
So what do we do, not much we can except pay more no matter what happens.

PGE For Profit Co
Guest
PGE For Profit Co
4 years ago

I’m an Electrical Contractor that works with PGE on a regular basis. There used to be 12 to 14 crew in Garberville. They have completely cut staff. They have a design team in eureka that had 12 people now has 4. There have been days unaware to the public that only one trouble man was on duty covering from Legget to Fortuna and to Petrolia to kettempom all covered by only one pge trouble man. The wait of 1 to a year and a half is common for a power drop now even in San Francisco. PGE has been convicted of a crime of killing people due to a lack of maintenance of their gas lines. They are on probation now. They are only interested in stockholders. Nothing More. They are not trimming trees and not paying overtime now due to filing for bankruptcy protection. Fir trees on the front of my property are touching power lines I have called 3 times and they still have not cleared the lines. TIME TO LET THEM GO BANKRUPT Don’t believe it is complicated it’s not it is all about stockholders and profits I have had numerous lineman complain to me about their unsafe working conditions during storms and power outages. Thirty years I have been working with PGE on power projects first hand knowledge

G
Guest
G
4 years ago

Thanks.

Explains how they pay their execs 8 million dollar salaries.

guest
Guest
guest
4 years ago

Thank you so much for sharing your point of view. You raise important points with first-hand experience.

Guest
Guest
Guest
4 years ago

Yet the contracted company comes down the secondary road, then private road where I live at least every year and a lot of the time twice a year with preventive trimming. Maybe not PG&E employees but PG&E contracts them.

36 taco
Guest
36 taco
4 years ago

Why is everyone mad at pge, they just don’t want to get blamed by the state again for something that honestly may not have even been their fault. Fires happen all the time, and sometimes it seems to look more like job security than anything.

Gees
Guest
Gees
4 years ago
Reply to  36 taco

Because they gouge their customers on a regular basis, making huge profits, paying execs. 8 million dollar salaries then shut off the power to an area not because of fire danger but because a line which could be easily isolated is tied to an inland area that unlike Humboldt is fire prone. And they did it with an hours notice, just to fill their greedy pockets.

Guesty
Guest
Guesty
4 years ago

The salary of their executives is over 8 million dollars. That’s per year.

Whoever wrote this letter needs to smarten up and read through the bullshit.

Anybody making that kind of money isn’t doing the little guy in Humboldt any favors. They probably got a bonus for leaving us in the dark to freeze.

They could care less, or they wouldn’t have done it.

Flyte
Guest
Flyte
4 years ago

Thanks everyone for the interesting and enlightening information. I agree that it is a complex issue, with many sides to look at and discuss. However, I don’t think I saw what I consider to be a very important point about the outage this week:
No matter how public utilities should be run, how much PG&E paid or didn’t for maintenance, even if they lied about San Bruno, etc., given the situation this past week, was there a fire danger that PG&E could mitigate by the blackouts? If yes, should they have done it?
It would be great to have all the power lines buried, but that isn’t happening overnight. It would be better if we lived in a real life Ecotopia.
Sometimes we need to deal with the problem right in front of us before we can make everything perfect. I would prefer them to shut down the power, even on a fairly short notice, if it will stop a repeat of deadly, destructive fires.

Gee
Guest
Gee
4 years ago
Reply to  Flyte

Why didnt they shut off power in San Fransisco? The Windy City, it’s much warmer there. Or Los Angeles? That’s a desert, that’s a red flag area; whereas Humboldt is basically a rain forest.

It’s not complex it’s that they don’t care about poorer areas.

Period.

Flyte
Guest
Flyte
4 years ago
Reply to  Gee

Ummm…..Last time I was in San Francisco, there weren’t a lot of power lines running through tinder-dry brush and forest land.

Gee
Guest
Gee
4 years ago
Reply to  Flyte

Flyte your dead wrong,
Humboldt is on the ocean. It’s also a rain forest. It’s not a red flag area. The tinder dry brush area is inland. Check your geography before you comment. Regardless, are you saying that those not living in a concrete jungle breathing smog all day deserve to have their power shut off? People probably died or became ill, elderly, babies.

You sicko corporate boot-licker.

Guest
Guest
Guest
4 years ago
Reply to  Gee

First most of Humboldt Co is not all a rain forest. Go 20 miles inland and it can be very dry. But that was not the reason Humboldt lost power. It was that the transmission lines that supply our power passed through areas that were in the “red flag area” and shutting them off resulted in power being shut off here.

I hope Kym edits out your ugly name calling. It’s you who have the problems.

Gee
Guest
Gee
4 years ago
Reply to  Flyte

Flyte that’s a stupid comment,
the one about ectopia look at the map, Humboldt is on the coast from Trinidad, ferndale, fortuna, McKinleyville, Arcata, Eureka you can literally see the ocean. It’s so dewy here even in the summer it looks like it rained the previous night. Wake up! The point is that there was no need to shut the power off in rain forest Humboldt by the sea. Stop making generalizations about something you know nothing about. You would prefer them to shut the power down on us because you don’t live here and you don’t give a crap about us, and you don’t understand that this is not a red flag area, it was only shut down because they didn’t sepearate our line from somebody else’s in their fire prone area and they farm out out other power sources to the cities.

FYI ectopia is the extrusion (removal) of an organ. Please don’t use big words you don’t understand. Did you mean utopia?

Flyte
Guest
Flyte
4 years ago
Reply to  Gee

Actually, I live in Southern Humboldt, although I did grow up in the Bay Area. I am aware about the ocean off the coast, and the weather patterns that it creates. While the coast may not be a red flag area, Humboldt is actually much bigger than the coast, and does include warmer areas where the fog does not have much of an effect, and where in fact it does get hot and dry. You are right, however, that our power comes from other areas, and that when it comes to energy distribution we can’t easily be separated from the rest of the county. While it would be nice if we did have local control over that, currently we do not. That was sort of the point of what I had to say.

FYI, Ecotopia (check the spelling) is a book by Ernest Callenbach that describes an environmental utopia that develops in the Pacific Northwest of North America because of the discovery of a cheap and easy way to produce electricity. It was one of the seminal books of the environmental and back-to-the land movement of the 1970’s. But thank you for teaching me a medical word I did not know.

Guested
Guest
Guested
4 years ago

The letter is from a misguided though sincere student, who needs to keep one thing in mind follow the money that’s the track.

P G &E was deregulated years ago, that’s when these “problems” started, back then execs didn’t makeover 8 million per year, there weren’t huge profits, and power wasn’t shut off for no reason.

This is due to their their greed and not giving a crap about little counties like Humboldt.

Their greed probably caused injury or death to some elderly person or a baby, I hope they choke on their grey poupon when they get sued for it.

guest
Guest
guest
4 years ago
Reply to  Guested

Right on. Me too.

Chuck Chuck
Guest
Chuck Chuck
4 years ago

What a great way of saying absolutely NOTHING.

I’m sure PG&E has a job opening or two in Public Relations.

guest
Guest
guest
4 years ago
Reply to  Chuck Chuck

Seriously.

Geeses
Guest
Geeses
4 years ago
Reply to  Chuck Chuck

Chuck chuck
I concur. How could that possibly be written by somebody going to Stanford? It does say absolutely nothing.

guest
Guest
guest
4 years ago
Reply to  Geeses

Cuz Stanford sucks. Buncha rich kids.

Geeses
Guest
Geeses
4 years ago
Reply to  guest

guest,
right on. Have to be buncha rich kids, nobody else could possibly get away with such nonsense.

Eric
Guest
Eric
4 years ago

Sorry Eli. Whether or not you get a job for PG&E, I’m sure that after you get some real-life experience, you will begin to understand. I really don’t think you know what the hell you are talking about.

People died. No really, it gets serious when it happens to you and yours. I guess getting mad is no longer a rational response for people like you? You are exactly the “rational” and “even tempered” kind of person that careless mega-investors love.

You fail to mention PG&E’s culpability when they shut down Poe Powerhouse intentionally during the Enron “Death Star” blackouts. People died, but PG&E made money.

Your rationale makes no sense in relation to San Bruno, when PG&E knew that they were risking deadly catastrophe and killed people anyway.

And with regard to trimming trees, it is implausible that they would not check their contractors for years. Ridiculous.

The Camp Fire was started by equipment that they knew was faulty. I know that area, (actually near Poe) and PG&E should have expected a catastrophic fire.

The CPUC is clearly in bed with major utilities, especially PG&E. Documented. Look it up. I have spent many years negotiating with them. They are despicable, and laugh all the way to the bank. Their investors care about the bottom line. Why do you think there is a bankruptcy?

Fire danger in the Eureka area was low: high humidity, freezing overnight temps, and The last-minute scramble to try to provide power because they had not worked out the intertie is a case in point: why should they care if people die because their O2 concentrator cuts out? They could have and should have enabled us to use the power from local generation, which was adequate.

A likely goal for PG&E during this blackout is to buy themselves crediblity with jurors during future court cases, eg “Oh we knew people were going to get mad at us so we didn’t want to shut off power proactively.” Picture the hand-wringing and weepy-eyed managers, all looking for that big fat bonus.

With all due respect, shut up. No really. You are a public menace and are making it easier for them to sucker us all. Governor Newsom knows a lot more than you do and is right to be mad.

Guestss
Guest
Guestss
4 years ago
Reply to  Eric

Thanks. They definitely made a lot of money. How else could they pay their execs. over 8 million dollars per year. They just gave themselves a posh diner before shutting the power off on millions also https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/PG-E-gas-employees-wined-and-dined-just-before-14512194.php

Guest
Guest
Guest
4 years ago
Reply to  Guestss

From the article linked- “Bill Johnson, CEO of the utility’s parent company PG&E Corp., admitted to the event in an exclusive interview with The Chronicle on Thursday. He described it as a colossal mistake in poor taste and promised it would never happen again.”

Guestss
Guest
Guestss
4 years ago
Reply to  Guest

Then why did they do it?
Previous to that, this year as well they gave their execs. 11 million in bonuses AFTER paradise.

So is what your saying, do whatever, but as long as you apologize it’s ok?

Not ok.

Craig
Guest
Craig
4 years ago
Reply to  Guestss

Even though this applies to the gas side of PG and E, I feel that the same attitude applies to the electrical side as well.

PG and E used to be a good place to work for as a layman, and with it being common place to see their trucks on the road, but today, that’s seldom the case.
Too much money going to the top tier execs and stockholders, and less money going the slice of the pie that really does the most good.

Guest
Guest
Guest
4 years ago
Reply to  Craig

Absolutely no one said it was ok. You must get some sort of self righteous high by attacking people for the words you put in their mouth. But it does look silly.

Socialism much?
Guest
Socialism much?
4 years ago

This dude lost me at climate change. This outage only passed the buck on liability and had absolutely nothing to do with public safety.

Geeseses
Guest
Geeseses
4 years ago

Socialism, thanks, super comment.

Keryn
Guest
Keryn
4 years ago

Your misunderstanding of utility rates leads to a false statement: “Others have claimed that PG&E has neglected maintenance work like tree clearing near transmission lines in order to cut costs and increase their profits. However, these non-infrastructure investments, like cutting trees around transmission lines are also passed on to us in the form of the rates we pay. PG&E can’t make any profit on them, but they also will not lose any money either. Thus, PG&E has no incentive to skimp on doing maintenance.

Every few years, PG&E goes to the Public Utility Commission (PUC) and essentially tells the PUC that they need to spend x dollars on infrastructure and y dollars on maintenance. The PUC either approves or rejects these costs based on whether they think these expenditures are worth the money for us (the ratepayers).”

Stated rates, the rates granted by the PUC, are based upon a “test year” where the utility presents an estimate of its costs based on historical costs and best guesstimates. The rate the PUC grants is the rate the utility receives. They get a flat rate. What the utility does with that money is up to the utility. The first place a utility goes when trying to increase share dividends and profit is to Operations & Maintenance accounts. By cutting O&M budgets, the utility can come up with a pool of cash to use for other things. Because it is getting paid a flat rate, it doesn’t have to explain itself.

Yes, utilities DO skimp on tree trimming and other maintenance in order to cut costs and increase profits. And the current blackouts are the result of years of skimping and cost cutting.

Maybe your coursework should include listening in to quarterly earnings calls of investor owned utilities? If you listen to enough of them, you’ll find the claims to cut O&M to create cash are routine.

guest
Guest
guest
4 years ago
Reply to  Keryn

Right on, Keryn. Ain’t drinkin’ the kool-aid.

Guestss
Guest
Guestss
4 years ago
Reply to  Keryn

Keryn,
thanks.

John Keller
Guest
John Keller
4 years ago
guest
Guest
guest
4 years ago
Reply to  John Keller

The f-n RECEIPTS.

Guestss
Guest
Guestss
4 years ago
Reply to  John Keller

John, thanks. There are so many atrocities they are resposible for which are public record,
but they still go on. Unbelievable.

Perspective
Guest
Perspective
4 years ago

Is there any electric companies in this country that have rates as high as PGE? Complete rip-off!

Craig
Guest
Craig
4 years ago
Reply to  Perspective

Long ago, I’ve found that I cannot produce electricity anywhere near the price that I’m now paying to PG and E. , and still run my house hold on the same level, even today with all my power efficiency improvements.

Eric
Guest
Eric
4 years ago
Reply to  Craig

You must be the exception. Millions of people like me have put in solar. I expect to pay mine off in 3 years, then I will be making money.

I guess that makes you a PG&E troll then?

Guestss
Guest
Guestss
4 years ago
Reply to  Eric

Solar doesn’t work in Humboldt. There’s no sun6 months out of the year.

Guestss
Guest
Guestss
4 years ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

Thanks would that work in Northern Humboldt? There’s at least 6 to 9 months without sun.

At any rate, is it insured in case there actually was a fire? Solar starts at about 10 thousand dollars, kind of spendy. Thank you.

Craig
Guest
Craig
4 years ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

If I had to live off a generator only, then solar / wind generation with batteries is a very viable option. One friend of mine’s house has never had grid electricity since their house was built in the 1880’s, a few years back, they installed solar and wind power with batteries, and they are loving it.
I talked with them a few months after the installation, and they now hardly use their diesel generator, installed in the 50’s, since the installation of the solar / wind generators and battery storage.

Guestss
Guest
Guestss
4 years ago
Reply to  Craig

Thanks.

Guestss
Guest
Guestss
4 years ago
Reply to  Kym Kemp

Thank you Kyme.

Craig
Guest
Craig
4 years ago
Reply to  Eric

Nope, I did the math, solar and wind power on my own wasn’t cost effective, and pay back was far more than three years at my usage level.
This shutdown was the first time I’ve used my back up generator in a long time, and at several times the P G and E level.

Ullr Rover
Guest
Ullr Rover
4 years ago
Reply to  Eric

Without subsidies? If so, you are an exception.

Guest
Guest
Guest
4 years ago
Reply to  Ullr Rover

I found that a back up generator was pretty spendy for me. I have a propane back up generator but haven’t used it in 4years. I decided that conservation (read tightwad), selective portable solar devices and being prepared to do without power (dehydrated food instead of fresh in the freezer and succession fruit ripening with only 2 most without fresh fruit) was best for me. I live in an area that is frequently foggy (Eureka is much sunnier). That choice may have to change if PG&E becomes regularly unreliable, especially shifting outages in summer instead of winter. Or if I get more sun.

Jay Peltz
Guest
Jay Peltz
4 years ago
Reply to  Perspective

Oregon, Nevada our two neighbors are between 10 and 12 cents per kWH, flat rate, no tiers, no seasonal. SMUD (Sacramento )just implemented seasonal rates which are about 15cents high, 9 cents low during summer and below 10 cents kWh during the winter.
PGE starts at 18-19 cents and is tiered, goes up. If you have solar you are put onto time of use, seasonal rate which is even higher and tiered.
Next year if you have solar you will have demand charges added as well to your bill, yep higher bills.

The CPUC are the ones who have allowed these rate increases.

It’s important when you call your representatives that you demand accountability from them! The PUC is a major part of the problem. Either the PUC doesn’t have the money and authorization to really check what PGE is telling them is real and factual and so allows for rate increases on lies. Or the PUC is complicit in what PGE has/is doing.

Either way, our state legislators are in charge of the PUC, so ultimately it’s their doing to make sure the PUC works in OUR favor.

Jim Wood. 916-319-2002
Mike Mcguire 916-651-4002

Guest
Guest
Guest
4 years ago
Reply to  Jay Peltz

“Our” representatives are not so interested in keeping rates down for rural people. They have never fought any of the PUC initiatives that took away subsidizing the higher costs of supplying power to less dense population in favor of a cheaper power to urban areas where the voters are. Sort of like the water wars where the needs of people living where the rain falls take a back seat to those more urban areas that want the waternsent to them. You’d think we’d get some leverage from that but, as I said, the voters live elsewhere.

Guestss
Guest
Guestss
4 years ago
Reply to  Jay Peltz

Jay, thanks. If everybody, or many wrote a letter or called in, they would have to listen.

Central HumCo
Guest
4 years ago
Reply to  Guestss

In Power Movement has success;

https://www.inpowermovement.com/

Notice of Liability – nice ring to it.

ABOLISH THE PUC!

Unelected inferior Commissioners -sheesh! How hard can it be? “YOU’RE Fired. There’s the door”.

Craig
Guest
Craig
4 years ago

Just like the first oil embargo implemented by OPEC, I’m on to PG and E. Over the years, I’ve been slowly making my household more energy efficient, and during this power shutdown, my smallest generator was handling our electrical needs with ease, and going longer on less fuel.

Nothing like going through a real shutdown to test one’s emergency equipment and preparedness , than doing a bunch of dress rehearsals.

Gardener
Guest
Gardener
4 years ago

There is also the truth that as well as budgeting to clear vegetation, they have to also do the work. I know of a big PG&E vegetation removal contract, where all the paperwork was done, but they just did not bother to authorize the actual work, which remains undone to this day. Thanks Eli for the view of how thing SHOULD work, that’s what they teach you in school. Next come out to the real world and see reality for a few years, then lecture. Ktxbai

David Heller
Guest
David Heller
4 years ago

“He who has the copper rules”!

Monica warden
Guest
Monica warden
4 years ago

Would it be possible to create more grids but smaller ones that only connect to a smaller amount of people? As I understand it there are 2 main lines that send the energy throughout California, which is why our power in northern California had to be shut off due to the winds further south. Just trying to understand and possibly help with ideas.

Guest1
Guest
Guest1
4 years ago
Reply to  Monica warden

Thanks Monica

Geeseseseses
Guest
Geeseseseses
4 years ago

Eli you need to fact check before writing a letter. Please provide where you got your information from? Because you’re wrong.

Miss_Morris
Guest
Miss_Morris
4 years ago

Thank you! As a wife of a PG&E employee I have spent the last few days worrying about my husbands safety. There have been acts of aggression toward PG&E employees all over the state. While I understand the frustration none of this is the the employees fault, at least not any of the ones you see out in the field. All of these employees have family and loved ones and no one has any right to put them in danger. Everyone thinks all of this is as simple as flipping a switch when in fact it is an extremely complicated situation as you stated. Thank you for putting a reasonable level headed view on this mess.

cheers
Guest
cheers
4 years ago
Reply to  Miss_Morris

That’s really terrible. And stupid. Sorry you have to go through that.

A Challenge
Guest
A Challenge
4 years ago

Doing well with less power is critical. We drove from San Jose to far northern Humboldt the night the power was out, reaching Eureka around 2am Thur, as their power was starting to get turned on.

It was dark and beautifully moonlit. We saw how this land used to be at night.

This rare opportunity to travel 101 in the dark was thought provoking. Normally lights would have been blazing everywhere…for what reason, as most people sleep? Security? So we don’t get lost? Advertising? Bigger pot plants? Because we can? We need to start saving our energy for things that we really do need.

This outage showed that we really could do just fine with a lot less. I challenge everyone to turn it off, turn it down, and ask if it is really needed at all.

Here's a challenge, don't shut off the power so people get sick or die, let it be a choice.
Guest
Here's a challenge, don't shut off the power so people get sick or die, let it be a choice.
4 years ago
Reply to  A Challenge

Here’s a challenge, don’t shut off the power so the elderly and babies get sick or die from the cold and their food spoils, let cutting back on power be a choice.

How did you like the cold shower? No heat? No hot food? Almost no warning. It’s fing freezing in Humboldt at night this time of year.

How about you didn’t drive a car to save on power? How could you have gotten up here?

Here’s a challenge how about the p g & e execs. forgo their 25 million dollar jet?
https://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Executives-at-PG-E-hoping-to-fly-in-style-2535959.php

to save power?

Humboldtians are not polluters nor are they energy wasting, and they don’t use personal jets.

Guest3
Guest
Guest3
4 years ago

This is from the mercury news, caught fire, AFTER the power was shut off.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jDN4hD1QDPs
How do you explain that? Do not believe all the lies. Better go back to school Eli.

JB
Guest
JB
4 years ago
Reply to  Guest3

//”How do you explain that?”//

Fuel. Oxidizer. Ignition.

You’re welcome.

Guest5
Guest
Guest5
4 years ago

This is why people are mad at p g & e.

“A PG&E gas line in San Bruno exploded in 2010, killing eight people and destroying 38 homes. More recently, the company agreed to a $65 million settlement with state regulators who found that PG&E employees repeatedly falsified certain internal records about their efforts to locate and mark underground natural gas lines.”
https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/PG-E-gas-employees-wined-and-dined-just-before-14512194.php

Ron Kuhnel
Guest
Ron Kuhnel
4 years ago

This piece seems long on conjecture and short on research and facts.

Follow the money
Guest
Follow the money
4 years ago
Reply to  Ron Kuhnel

Ron,
right on.

Jilly
Guest
Jilly
4 years ago

Dig Ditches, bury lines, not complicated. Better to be ‘unhappy’ than burned alive! Shutting off water because of fire is dangerously counterintuitive and a recipe for disaster. Medical equipment doesn’t work without power either. Transmission lines are necessary but should be decentralized so that when the power is out, it doesn’t affect everyone.

Water
Guest
Water
4 years ago
Reply to  Jilly

Jilly,
thanks. That’s what a lot of people are asking. Why shut off the electricity that pumps water if there ever was a fire risk?

Guest
Guest
Guest
4 years ago
Reply to  Jilly

How many rural roads are washed out each winter? How do you access miles of underground lines- if you can actually run miles of high power lines anyway? I would think that with land slides and careless digging over extremely rugged terrain would result in more power outages of longer duration than occasional shut offs. Much of the road off which I live has 200 foot drops, intermittent subsidence, sometimes on both sides of a road with no shoulders. Where would the lines go underground? I have buried lines from the road to my house but that’s a short distance over flat ground with no digging to be done.

Guees2
Guest
Guees2
4 years ago
Reply to  Guest

Pg & e just gave their execs. 11 million in bonuses this year, after paradise.

Maybe they could use some of the “bonus” for the lines?

Guest
Guest
Guest
4 years ago
Reply to  Guees2

The point was that many places do not have a place to bury lines at all. And if they did, this area is geologically very unstable with corresponding trouble in burying lines. Focusing the bonuses of executives, while emotionally indulgent, does not fix the fact that what doesn’t flood in Humboldt Co tends to slide. Or at least enough of it does that getting power from one point to another is unrealistic with current technology. To do it, $11 million wouldn’t cover the a fraction of the required studies much less actually doing anything. It may be a lot of money , but nowhere close to even starting the project. https://www.cnn.com/2017/09/14/us/underground-power-lines-trnd/index.html
https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Underground-power-lines-don-t-cause-wildfires-12295031.php

Geesess
Guest
Geesess
4 years ago

Hey, anybody know why they didn’t use the Humboldt Bay Power Plant? Historically they used to use that.

“Humboldt Bay Generating Station (HBGS) is located at 1000 King Salmon Avenue, Eureka, California. The project is located on 5.4 acres within a 143-acre parcel currently occupied by the existing PG&E Humboldt Bay Power Plant.”

Does it still work? What does it do? Does it supply power? Could it supply power to us?

Gosh
Guest
Gosh
4 years ago
Reply to  Geesess

“Humboldt Bay Generating Station (HBGS) is a Pacific Gas and Electric (PG&E) owned and operated facility consisting of 10 Wärtsilä W18V50DF A engines. The plant is situated on Humboldt Bay in northern California. Each four-stroke engine is capable of producing 16.7 MW (gross) to provide a combined station net output of 163 MW.”

https://www.powermag.com/humboldt-bay-generating-station-a-case-study-in-emissions-control-troubleshooting/

This is owned by p g & e. It appears to be operational. Looks like they could use this. This is pretty close to here. Right on the bay in fact.
Anybody know why it wasn’t used?

Craig
Guest
Craig
4 years ago
Reply to  Gosh

I was informed by an individual, that a possible theory was that a transformer station wasn’t able to disconnect the Humboldt Bay Power station from the grid that was a fire danger.
When the transformer station was able to disconnect, there were major list of safety check procedures that PG and E had to sign off on, causing the delay of bringing Humboldt county back on line.

My thoughts are that another shut down scenario, like the recent one, is unlikely to happen again, and was definitely a major FUBAR on PG and E’s part.

jay peltz
Guest
jay peltz
4 years ago
Reply to  Craig

There are 3 main power stations in Humboldt county which provide the vast majority of energy to Humboldt county: Humboldt bay power station, Fairhaven bio mass, and HRC bio mass in Scotia.

We are also connected with 2 transmission lines from the main grid via HWY 36, 299. Its those two transmission lines that were turned off. But they have disconnects on this side too.
There was/is no reason to have shut down the three plants here locally except a major FUBAR due to mass incompetence on PGE and our state regulators for not doing their job of you know regulating.
Those 3 plants maybe couldn’t power all of Humboldt bay area as some have speculated, if so thats why they do rolling blackouts. But you don’t turn the whole thing off.

Its another reason for the wind project. That wind project would have been connected close enough to the bay that it would stay on line, providing up to 135MW and as such all of Humboldt bay would have stayed on line. The wind project will help us here. We have to understand that this shut off, is just the first of many more this year and into the future years.

Farce
Guest
Farce
4 years ago
Reply to  jay peltz

From what I understand PG&E has plans to shut down the grid whenever wind speeds are estimated to be high. EVEN WHEN IT’S RAINING OR WET…People were upset with this last shutoff -even in red flag conditions when it was logical? They will be extremely upset when the grid gets shut down in the middle of a rainstorm with the forest already drenching wet in the middle of winter! This is just the beginning, people!

Guees
Guest
Guees
4 years ago
Reply to  Farce

God, no! I’ll bet they would try that.

Good comment Farce.

Craig
Guest
Craig
4 years ago
Reply to  jay peltz

Personally, I don’t buy into the thought of another power shutdown in Humboldt county, like the last scenario, with PG and E getting hammered by the public, and will be twice shy in making that FUBAR mistake again.

Gueeses
Guest
Gueeses
4 years ago
Reply to  Craig

Thanks. I hope people voice their opinions regarding this atrocity, through letters etc.

Craig
Guest
Craig
4 years ago
Reply to  Gueeses

It seems that opinions from other power utilities will hold sway to PG and E as well, and hopefully PG and E has learned a hard lesson from this last shutdown.

‘This Did Not Go Well’: Inside PG&E’s Blackout Control Room

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/this-did-not-go-well-inside-pgandes-blackout-control-room/ar-AAIGpCa

The president of the state utilities commission, Marybel Batjer, said PG&E needed to similarly adapt its approach and learn from its mistakes.

“The situation frankly has been unacceptable,” Ms. Batjer said at a commission meeting on Thursday while PG&E was still wrestling with its blackouts. “The impacts to individual communities, to individual people, to the commerce of our state, to the safety of our people, has been less than exemplary. This cannot be the new normal. We can’t accept it as the new normal. And we won’t.”

Central HumCo
Guest
4 years ago

CA POWER SHUTDOWN: “First they predict the fires, then turn off the power, then start the fires, next they spread the fires….”

PG&Egate
California State Government and PG&E
Outright Lied to the Residents
About the Power Shutdown

http://stateofthenation2012.com/?p=129712 October 11th