Armed Robber Shot in Ukiah by a Customer With a Concealed Carry Permit, Reports UPD

Ukiah PoliceLast night, at the Subway on Orchard Avenue in Ukiah, an armed robber was shot by a customer with a concealed carry weapons permit, according to witnesses at the scene.

“During the robbery, a customer with a valid concealed carry weapons permit, discharged his firearm reportedly in fear of his safety and the safety of other citizens,” stated the Ukiah Police Department (UPD) in a press release at 8:55 a.m. this morning. The suspect, a 20-year-old white male transient, reportedly fled and was located in front of a nearby Ross store with gunshot wounds.

“The officer provided first aid until paramedics arrived,” reads the statement released by the UPD.

The young man was then medevacked to an out of the area hospital for treatment.

Ukiah Police are investigating.



  • Give tha good citizen a medal

    • From what I have heard here in Ukiah this morning; The person with the CCW shot the guy in the back while he was fleeing. Also the guy who was shot was carrying a fake gun.

      • I heard the thief had a gun to employees head and this young man saved a life

      • Fake or not it’s justified, pull that bullshit and you get what you get. Now if he did shoot him in the back he will probably be charged with all kinds of things in this nut job state, but the robber still got everything he deserves, fuck him.

        • i can shoot at you while i am running away so “shot in the back” doesnt matter to me. go ahead people take out your thumb and index finger and point behind you, i know i can

      • I’m cool with that, commit a felony and threaten people with a gun (real or not, you are purporting it to be real), deal with the consequences of getting smoked.

      • Dumb robber then.
        Got less than what he deserved.
        Dont turn your back, or rob people with a fake gun.
        Someone may kill you….
        Sucks that he may profit from this!!

      • Yeah. Stupid ass so don’t take a f****** play gun to a robbery..

        • Every law abiding tax paying citizen should carry a gun. The world would be a safer place. California is run amuck with tolerance of theives who feed there drug habits by taking and terrorizing others. PS. If you conceal carry, get insurance. I do

          • Wrong idea dude. That’s why we have police. They have training. If every little guy like you had a gun and went around thinking they were Johnny law it’d be a mess out there, more than it already is. In civilized countries they leave the shooting to the police. What’s wrong with you people? You want to be a fucking hero? You really want to kill someone? What idiots. You have no idea.

            • disagree, i’m not waiting for the law to save my life

            • What civilized countries? Oh the ones where people carry a knife or club? Arcata for instance? CCW carriers as a whole aren’t looking to be “Johnny Law”, they are governed by the law. If the citizen shooter screwed up he’ll pay the price. If not, lesson learned for the next wannabe bad guy. Truth be known, I’ll bet half the population has shooting the shit out of some bad guy they know on their fantasy bucket list. The safest, most peaceful places I have been to are areas where the majority of the citizenry packs. Emily’s argument kinda goes out the window when you think about the fact that one in every ten cars has a firearm in it. The CCW guys and those who just carry for protection outside the law very seldom shoot anyone. Just pulling a gun will put the brakes on most situations. If you’re a bad guy, just hope you don’t threaten someone with an itchy trigger finger, ’cause they’re out there alright.

              • Emily,

                If you cannot see the irony in having a gun ban enforced by men with guns, then you fail to understand why the second amendment was written in the first place.

                • 5:5 right there. Well said!

                • Shoot them if you got them.....................

                  James Madison originally proposed the Second Amendment shortly after the Constitution was officially ratified as a way to provide more power to state militias, which today are considered the National Guard. Says nothing about single persons. And nothing about protecting individual citizens from individual citizens.

                • STIYGT, read it again.
                  There is the militia in every state and there is the ‘organized’ state militia. Two different ballgames.

            • I would rather have a gun and not need it than need a gun and not have it

            • when it takes minutes for a police responce although here in humboldt it could be hours and only seconds to kill someone …. i think i will take my chances by owning and carrying. not just for myself but for those around me. including you.

            • Emily, where were the cops in that situation? oh that’s right they showed up afterwards to take statements.
              People with concealed carry permit go through Darn near as much training as most police officers do these days,to think police officers have some magic level of professional training is funny. Just look at all the fuck-ups from Cops around the country in the last few years, all they’re trained to do is empty their mag center-mass so they can go home at night.

              • I also wanted to add, concealed carry permit holders are the most law-abiding citizens in the country, even more so than police officers. Google it!

            • Here is why relying on the police to protect you will only get you hurt or worse yet killed


            • You have to take classes to get a CCW. CCW carriers ARE trained. They just have a thing called protective instincts where they don’t like to wait the possible 20 minutes for law enforcement to show up, cause by then it may be too late. And there are only so many officers to begin with.

              • I have to admit i’m not trained in handling or shooting. The training would for sure have to go along with knowing how to react in different situations. I’m going for the Bear Spray.

            • Youre the one who has ‘no idea.’ in 2005 the supreme court ruled that police do not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm. while there are cops who actually do protect people from harm, the cops around here seem to take that ruling COMPLETELY to heart whether that makes them a bad person or not. please dont blindly support people youre ‘supposed’ to respect when most of the time they treat the general public like trash. and yes i have firsthand experience: when my car was broken into i called EPD to report it and they told me i needed to go online and file a report on the website. absolutely useless.

              • YeahNo,

                I’m sorry to hear this, and many of us probably have a story of being surprisingly shunned, as you were, that we could tell.

                There are good and bad in every profession. I like to think that the majority of officers here in Humboldt aren’t from San Diego, or military trained, and have good family upbringing.

            • Wait for the cops?!?!?
              The cops come after the event.
              Waiting the cops, is just ignorant, dangerous and a very bad decision.
              The average response time in Eureka is 10+ minutes.
              When I lived in south Phoenix, the average response time was 45 minutes.
              If the cops were so good at protection, or stopping criminals, then all the mass shootings are fake propaganda?!
              The correct response to such an occurance is: Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang click, click, click.

            • When seconds count the police are minutes away.
              Oh and why the demeaning tone.

          • I’m good with anyone crossing a street, labeled or not labeled “jay-walker”.

            Speeders don’t bother me either, cuz usually it’s me, OH NO!, speeding. I’m guessing you’re referring to the black numbers on a white sign, outlined w/black (in a box), that applies to commerce and the kling-ons w/a State-owned commercial D/L and the “driver” going faster than the posted numbers sign?

            Parking violators – ditto. I couldn’t care less. As a matter of fact, it’s never crossed my mind to shoot a parking violator, someone crossing the road, and, no, not even a shoplifter -altho, if the situation presented itself, and i logically knew i could be of service to the owner of the theft – i would. I scream really loud and long. That’s enough to scare ’em away.

            What is your point? If any?

            Do spoiled-child temper tantrums really work for you?

          • I’m pretty certain that a good man with a gun stopped him short before he could carry out those other plans of his that you listed off. Encouraging the other tweekers to follow his lead is lower than low. I think there’s even a criminal word for encouraging violence, but I’m too tired to look it up atm.

          • I agree with you. I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy.
            Remember when seconds count a cop is only minutes away.

          • I was having some vehicle work done in Fort Davis, Texas. Inquiring about the area and crime, the gentleman I was conversing with just smiled and replied “assholes don’t tend to thrive in an area where everybody has a gun tucked under their belt”. Guess what, they don’t.

            • I can’t locate this happening, within the past two years tho – There was a young woman waitress in Texas who just got off work, and had just got paid. Cash in her purse. A would-be thief approached her outside the restaurant. She reached in her purse and shot him six times. In court when the judge asked her why she stopped, she replied, “Because i ran out of bullets.” Dismissed.

      • So what if the robber had a fake gun! Or where he was shot! He went in to the store to rob people! Enough is enough, he should get a job then he would not need to steal!

      • And your point?

      • The fake gun was not known until after the fact so that is a non-discussion issue. For shooting in the back, if it is reasonable to believe the suspect could be a danger to the public, i.e. carjacking, kidnapping hostage situation it would be a good shoot.

      • Did it look real? If he was using a nerf gun it would matter. Guy got what was coming to him.

      • You have no guarantees to life when committing a felony. Only a criminal would demand rights for a criminal.

    • Give him a medal, Yes! Thank you to this man. More armed citizens maybe criminals will think twice.

    • Finally, now everyone can see what a gun in the right hands can do. Instead of the onslaught on our second amendment that actually gives more rights to the criminals. Go to Oregon and try this crap grandma is packing up there and she’ll shoot you in the face making sure you never do it again.

  • Liability!
    Gonna wish they aimed for the head…
    Now they will be sued by the degenerate and/or his family.
    I’m sure an ambulance chaser has already contacted the assailant.

  • “Ukiah Police are investigating.” I’m unable to comment at this time.

  • I hope it hurts like hell.

    • I doubt it hurts – he’ll be on opioids, probably what he wanted in the first place, but now supplied by taxpayers. He should be able to milk this for a long time.

  • Armed robberies are really rare in Alaska…. open carry or conceal carry,legal here…

  • What an idiot, he could have instigated a shoot out and caused innocent people to be injured. The majority of times an armed robber actually shoots is when they are spooked. Hence why clerks are told to just give up the money. This person endangered themselves and others by shooting some lost kid stealing what probably would have amounted to less than $300.

  • Bad people are generally always stopped buy a good person with a gun.
    Meanwhile California passes more laws to restrict law-abiding citizens from owning guns, while at the same time they pass more laws reduce minimum sentences for criminals that commit crimes while armed with a gun. what the fuck..

    • The CCW carrier shot the guy in the back while he was fleeing the Subway. The guy who held up the Subway did so with a fake gun. I am not suggesting that it is Okay to commit armed robbery with a real or a fake gun nor am I suggesting that it is good for a CCW permit holder to shoot someone in their back while fleeing. To me it does not sound as if there was reason for him to feel that his life, the CCW carrier nor the lives of others was/were in danger.

      • I heard he shot him in the leg, all kinds of rumors going around I guess ,glad only the tweaker was hurt,he was so high he didn’t even know he had been shot,

      • Well… an armed robber running with a gun in downtown Ukiah… the threat to the public is obvious. Give this guy a medal !

      • JustWantToHeartheEndoftheStory

        And how would the CCW shooter KNOW that the robber had a fake gun? And the wound(s) were obviously minimal if the robber ran afterwards. Amazing how you know everything about everything, really, how do you do it.

        • the Ukiah newspaper has a full story. it looks like the shooter was a local firefighter also. he was also the only customer in the store which isn’t going to play well on top of shooting him in the back.

          • How many people working there? Sometimes it’s hard to tell where the entrance and exit wound , haven’t seen in the report where he was shot in the back, tweakers can do the spin move pretty fast

            • it will all be on camera.

              • yes let us see the footage

                • I agree, Tax Payer, let’s see the footage!
                  He could have very well been twisting back somewhat in a threatening manner (carrying a gun during an act of crime is usually not considered a potentially non violent situation).

                  Does the CC have the right to make a citizen’s arrest?
                  Does the Citizen’s arrest include the right to use force if the criminal refuses arrest?
                  Does the Citizen’s arrest include the right to yell “Citizen’s arrest! STOP or I’ll shoot!” ?

                  Maybe the top scholars will do us a favor and inform everyone of what can be expected during any arrest.

                • To be eligible to make a citizen’s arrest for a crime on or in relation to property, you must be one of the following:

                  the owner of the property;
                  in lawful possession of the property; or
                  have been authorized by the owner or the person in lawful possession of the property.


                  ca law on how to make a citizens arrest

                • The law allows you to use as much force as is necessary for the purpose of making a citizen’s arrest, as long as you are acting on reasonable grounds. However, any force you use must be tailored to the circumstances, and you are criminally responsible for any excess force you use. In addition to the potential for a criminal prosecution, you may also face a civil lawsuit in relation to your conduct and any injury you cause.

                • Thanks for the info & link Tax!

              • “Apparently, the robbery suspect first entered the Subway and asked to use the bathroom, then reemerged into the main area with an employee held at gunpoint. He allegedly robbed the store, but was then shot at close range by the holder of the concealed carry permit, at which point he fled, eventually collapsing on the opposite side of the parking lot in front of the Ross.”

                “The customer who shot the robber has been interviewed and released; it is unlikely that any charges will be filed against him.” “There is video of the incident from multiple sources.”


                If you have more current information, give a link please.

      • Keep in mind most of us commenting on here and expressing gratitude, do so per the info in the story. Now if it’s found the gunner shot him in the back, well I guess that’s too bad I would’ve chose to let him go.

      • Rodger, So what was he supposed to do, give the Armed robber notice that he was about to shoot him. Perhaps challenge him to a quick draw face-to-face like a real man? If some asshat is robbing a store with a gun you’re damn straight, shoot him in the fucking back without a second thought.

  • This idiot who shot this kid in the back while fleeing will now be charged for attempted murder, just as if you chased anybody down, and shot them, we are not to be judge jury and executioner, however if he was behind the kid and shot him “in the act” of robbery, instead of in the “act of fleeing from robbery” it would have been a different situation. Now the cc permitee will be charged with a worse crime than the robbery “suspect”… I suggest the CC permittee begin a letter writing campaign. Let this be a lesson to would be robbers and thieves, Many of us carry legal permitted concealed weapons.

  • political moderate

    Great more armed police with less training. Where do I sign up?

    • Your sarcasm is not warranted at this time, poly-mod. You don’t just sign up.

      • political moderate

        Well my point is only very well qualified should have CCW. More training likely would have prevented shooting a fleeing criminal in the back if as reported.

        • I think review of social media should also be included in the CCW permitting process. you learn a lot by reading someone’s hate.

          • political moderate

            Yes. Also psychological, physical fitness and agility testing among others. These should be made minimum requirements when licensing the public to dispense justice and make life or death decisions. UPD was quoted at scene saying “it’s gonna be a long night”. Might it have been a better decision all around to not pull the trigger?

          • Yes, cause you apparently HATE the shooter ,three shots excessive, to funny, call that kettle black lmao

  • Maybe wait for reports before using rumors of being shot in the back?

  • Elric of Melniboné

    Who will be liable for damages when the lawsuit is brought? The bank or the good-guy-with-a-gun?

    • Yup. The threat of a law suit running innocent people into bankruptcy should always be considered. Don’t stop at accidents, don’t rescue a drowning child, do not try to stop a man who is beating up a woman, don’t open your door to someone needing help, etc. The primary consideration is that YOU MIGHT BE SUED! Of course, first you’ll be pilloried in the internet court by people who have no facts but plenty of opinion.

  • Hate — the new all-purpose insult word.

  • Elric of Melniboné

    It’s just too late at this stage to regulate guns.

    There are already way too many.

    We just need to adapt to whats coming and arm everyone.

  • The amount of armed robberies happening lately is getting a bit much, and it’s hard to feel compassion for individuals, usually young men, who have no concern for unsuspecting shoppers or employees or residents.
    It could have been any of us, but then I don’t go to subway

  • I wish the criminals in Eureka got what they deserve..

  • “The young man was then medevacked …” vs “The gun toting robber was then medvacked…”

    Narratives are a funny bunch aren’t they.

    • Best comment of the day, Shak!

    • If I called him a gun toting robber and he hadn’t been convicted, I would be legally liable. I can say the UPD calls him a robber but I can’t call him one myself unless I am prepared to go to court.

      • Understandable. You could also become tangled up in court if he prefers to be called a she.
        Big Bruddah and Seamus offered a few other titles that don’t set a narrative.
        Armed suspect
        Alleged armed suspect

        The usual language used in armed suspect articles.

        • *giggle snort* Now that’s funny! Too bad humor isn’t appreciated as much as it used to be.

        • Suspect was used once. Young man is also accurate. Is there a reason you object?

          • Armed robber suspect wasn’t used and fits the event.

            Yes, of course I object to a narrative that tries to turn a violent suspect into a dreamy innocent victim.

            Is there a reason why you object to objections of a narrative that doesn’t fit the scenario?

            Like Big Bradduh said below, neither narrative is fitting. (gun toting robbing sob or innocent young man). The only fitting title is ‘armed robber suspect”. (or similar).
            See, no narrative. No fluffer, no nutter. Just the facts.

            It’s your article, your choice. You made yours.

            • No one was trying to turn a person that hasn’t been convicted of a crime into either a guilty party or a “dreamy innocent victim”. Young man is a neutral term describing the person.

              “Suspect”, though I frequently use it, has the connotation of guilt in our society. “Violent suspect” is an outright statement of guilt.

              I try when possible to use neutral terms of description. I don’t always succeed. But I strive for neutrality. As someone who frequently disagrees with me politically, shak, I would think neutrality in a reporter would be a trait you would desire.

              • Well it was factual to report his hair color or his height or whether he was right or left handed too. It was just not relevant to the nature of his actions so must have been chosen for another reason, especially since his age was already given and everyone reading the story already knew. The word choice does give the impression that people are to have sympathy for him because of his age. It certainly sounds like the phrasing a defense attorney would use “This young man was” whatever would play with the jury’s sympathies.

                It would be silly to bicker over an adjective except that words have become weaponized in the climate of social agendas. They were used to diminish the worth of whole swaths of the country and bully citizens into silence just for disagreeing. Disagree and anyone must be a “hater” or “bigot” or “racist.” Finis, end of discussion. They have been packaged and sent elsewhere.

              • Guest articulated it perfectly. See below the post by Guest at Dec 14, 6:39
                Young man is a description, not a neutral.
                Alleged armed robber is a factual, not a description.

                Besides, like I stated above, you could find yourself in court for describing him in ways he doesn’t agree with. Maybe he prefers to be called a lady. Maybe he prefers to be called an old geezer. You labeled the criminal in your own descriptive terms.
                Had there been two Alleged Armed Robbers, one old and one young and the one had been taken to the hospital, the young or the old description would have been of importance to the reader who sought clarification of who was who.

                “As someone who frequently disagrees with me politically, shak, I would think neutrality in a reporter would be a trait you would desire.”
                I argued my point well enough. Take it or leave it, I don’t really care. I didn’t address my post to you personally. I left my opinion and you took grief with my opinion. I then explained why neither of us was ‘neutral’, thanks to an observant poster below named Big Bradduh. Big Bradduh was spot on. You refuse to accept the explanations given after you inquired. I’m done explaining. Nuff said.

      • How about the “alleged” gun-toting robber. Or the gun-toting robber as reported by the police. Or the sweet young innocent mann who was just looking for a sandwich cuz he was hungry;>)

        • How about “young man”? He’s young and he’s a man. I find it interesting that folks want to assign a virtue to neutral terms. Really, it is okay for the news to be neutral.

          • Since both the shooter and the suspect were male, saying man wasn’t clear enough. I added young to clarify.

            • Since you edited your comment, I have to edit mine to make sense. If people choose to be sympathetic based on facts, that’s on them. If I distort the facts, that’s on me.

              And to be clear, if I could have confirmed that the shooter was a firefighter (generally a sympathetic attribute) I would have used that also as a descriptor. And I discarded the term “victim” in favor of “young man” as descriptors. Trying to clearly describe a situation using neutral terms isn’t as easy as you might think.

          • Argh! The point was it was not neutral. If you can tell me how the word “young” advanced the story, I might understand.

            Example – “The man on the bicycle ran over the woman” is neutral. “The man on the bicycle ran over the 80 year old woman” is not. Both are factual but the choice to emphasize one attribute is saying something more, to point out the commonly assumed vulnerability of the old woman.

            • Since both the shooter and the suspect were male, saying man wasn’t clear enough. I added young to clarify.

              If people choose to be sympathetic based on facts, that’s on them. If I distort the facts, that’s on me.

              And to be clear, if I could have confirmed that the shooter was a firefighter (generally a sympathetic attribute) I would have used that also as a descriptor of him. And I discarded the term “victim” in favor of “young man” as a descriptor though factually he was a “victim” of a gunshot but it is definitely a loaded term.

              Trying to clearly describe a situation using neutral terms isn’t as easy as you might think.

            • in this example an old lady is important to just lady because old is part of the story where because she is old it might be more detrimental and could be elder abuse. young could go both ways, people could think young and dumb or they could think young and going to have a better chance of pulling through

              • Thank you for articulating the point. You’re spot on.
                Maybe we missed the part where Kym mentioned that a young man was taken to the hospital but the old geezer sidekick wasn’t.
                yeh, that must be it. Otherwise we would be confused about who was lifted and who was lefted.

    • good thing he doesnt id as a attack heilo it would read 20 year old attack heilo medi vaced …. and i would be trying to figure out how a 20 year old attack heilo was young

  • Sounds like a win, win situation. Robber got shot and didn’t get away with the robbery, no one innocent got hurt. Perfect day!

  • My gosh, you see, the more gun-toting people around, the more people get shot. 40,000 people were killed in the US by guns this past year (60% of that number killed themselves). Guns are a serious public health problem, like vehicles. While we are willing to deal with vehicular deaths with safety laws, we are unable to deal with gun death, in a similar rational manner.

    • Violent crime has been declining since the early 90s, including “gun violence” and mass shootings, while gun ownership has gone through the roof with millions of new gun owners added yearly. The best estimate we have at this point is 420,000,000 firearms in private ownership in this country, maybe as many as 600,000,000. Many states have become shall issue and 7 flat out don’t care if you carry, open or concealed. Studies by the CDC in the 90s and again during the Obama administration (by executive order after Sandy Hook) have supported the positive role bearing arms have in securing and defending ourselves and our loved ones. A recent study by gun control researchers Garen Wintermute (UC Davis) and Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health found California’s implementation of background checks had no effect on gun deaths. As they say, correlation does not equal causation, but more guns does not equal more violence. It’s just not supported by credible sources of data (CDC, FBI crime data, etc.) and common sense. Further more, a cursory examination of gun control’s history shows it’s roots firmly embedded in racism and class control. To me a firearm is a tool, I am surrounded by black market enterprise and effectively have no access to law enforcement. I will not be disabused of a first class enumerated civil right by people who think they are my betters and who enjoy the outsourcing of violent self defense to others so they don’t have to get their hands dirty.

    • I’m pretty sure there are hundreds of gun safety laws on the books. The problem is criminals don’t follow laws. last time I looked it’s illegal to commit an armed robbery, last time I looked it’s illegal to murder somebody without a good reason.
      If you take suicide out of the equation it’s around 13,000 people killed with firearms in a country of 325 million that’s not what I would call a huge problem. Could you imagine the outcry if Firearms were responsible for over 600,000 deaths a year, like some other self-proclaimed rights I can think of.

  • This is a public health problem. The more people who tote guns, the more people get shot. There were 40,000 people killed with guns in the US in the past year (60% of whom killed themselves). This number is greater than the number of vehicular fatalities for the same period. We are willing to deal with the task of limiting vehicular death by legislation, but somehow we have yet to come to grips with dealing with guns in a manner that would decrease the death rate by gun in the population.

    • Because bearing arms is a first class civil right and we live in a constitutional republic. Mike drop.

    • We hoid you the first time.
      40 thousand out of 325.98 Million is such an epidemic of historic proportions. What’s the percentage? 0.000000000000000 something? I don’t have a calculator, but man oh man, that’s a ton of zero’s in that fraction. We must do something really quick about it! We need to turn those numbers around somehow. Flip them! Flop them! Anything! We mustn’t let this continue.

      (sarcasm isn’t my best suit, don’t make me use it again).

      • Based on 40,000, that works out to .00012. The more generally accepted number hovers around 33,000 gun deaths per year, 2/3 of which are suicides. Gun related suicides make up about 50% of the total number of suicides. Suicide by gun is effective 85% of the time. America is about average in terms of suicides for advanced, industrial nations. Many countries, like Japan for instance are higher. That leaves us with about 11,000 deaths, or .00003%. You can see how dire this is and warrants constant Commensense® control, regulation and infringement for our safety. Fun facts: Medical malpractice is the 3rd leading cause of death in the US, at around 250,000 annually. Alcohol accounts directly for about 85,000 deaths annually, I guess it was illegal once but that didn’t work out for some reason. Governments, in the past century, have killed about 262 million people (that’s innocent, non combatants), and around 35 million soldiers depending on sources.
        With statistics like that the world needs your sarcasm shak.

        • did yall see the story of the mexican lady that drove her car head on into an up and coming doctor because she was trying to commit suicide? i think it was on 99. and she lived and the doctor died. if people dont use guns to commit suicide they will use other means.

          • Auctally, I was a witness to the direct aftermath. South bound on i5 we got stuck in traffic, her car was flipped on it’s top and burning in the center divider, they had just pulled her out and were cutting portions of her clothing and prepping to put her on the carrier, we came to a complete stop by her car in the lefthand lane, the flames were beginning to burn the interior, a single calfire fireman was working with a sprayer around the gas tank, for some reason I was touched watching him avoid spraying the “victim” and the paramedics, working around them with care. We could feel the heat, I was concerned as we were at a complete stop for a bit, just about 15 feet from the gas tank end of the car. I could see that she was responding to the paramedics and squirming around in a state of disorientation. The reason we were stopped was because 3 paramedics walked across from the center divider to the right lane and down the embankment to a older Honda 4 door that had no visible front end or tires from our perspective (the whole front end was mashed off to the passenger side and the wheel was gone). chp was doing their best to keep the traffic out of the slow lanes so these guys could extract the victim, creating chaos and pushing us towards the burning vehicle. They didnt even have any traffic cones set up yet. We watched one of the paramedics reach into the drivers window, pushing the deployed airbags aside and begin feeling around, I could see him calling and fishing around, finally sticking his head in. his partners had a medical kit and a jaws of life unit, which they hauled down the embankment with some effort. after a bit he stood up, shook his head and they hauled everything back up and set it on the side of the road. I would describe the look on their faces as one of stoic defeat. I looked up the accident later on the redding record searchlight, the girl had been on the phone arguing with her mom, indicated what she was going to do and hung up and veered across the center divider and into oncoming traffic. the victim had just finished medical school in Texas and was settling back into redding, he was driving between job interviews when he died. Impermanence.

        • Erik, you’re right about everything but malpractice being the lead cause of death, it’s the second leading cause of death. ABORTION is the first with over 600,000 performed each year and that’s down from 1.3 million at its peak. Don’t get me wrong, for the most part I’m pro-choice because I’m Pro freedom, but if we’re talking numbers of death here let’s be honest with ourselves. Those that don’t think aborting a fetus is killing something, you are certainly delusional.

          • I believe I said it was the 3rd leading cause, but yes, I agree. I am basically pro choice too, because more laws won’t stop abortion, in some cases it is necessary and I’m not a woman, so not my place to weigh in outside of my immediate relationship. But at some point the fetus is well on it’s way to becoming sentient and capable of feeling suffering.

            • just because you are not a woman does not mean you shouldnt have an opinion on abortion. what your country does does affect you. like when terrorist bomb france, that is directly connected to the politics and laws of france

        • Thank you Erik! I hoped someone would fill in the percentage data, and you came through like a pro.
          My question is:
          Why is an MD more concerned about a tool used instead of the reasons why anyone would even want to use a tool in such a permanent way?
          Why are they suffering so much? Physical pain? Mental pain? Spiritual pain? All of the above?
          What is being done to combat the reasons? Education against tools is not conductive to solving the reasons. Why is so much time & money spent on combating the tools instead of the reasons?
          Why aren’t the anti-self defense people protesting the billions of dollars to countries that wish us harm instead of to cities for professional outlets to help solve the painful problems here at home? A mental health hospital in every state would be nice. New drugs that cure cancers and pain would be incredible. (how many cure doctors have mysteriously died to date?).

          More questions in the brain, but my typers are tired. Thank you, Erik, for your input. You’re spot on!

          • The billion dollar question (adjusted for inflation). For one thing, asking such questions would expose the vacuous the under pinnings of our modern society and the military industrial banking cartel. People ascribe evil to Russia all the while supporting sale of weapons and logistical support to Saudi Arabia so they can starve millions of people in Yemen and, in the last 3 years, kill 85,000 children. Up until lately this has enjoyed bi-partisan support. Yesterday Congress has finally voted for some sanctions. Next year. And this fact has not shown up in my mainstream news feeds, I had to go looking for it. This is just one current example of the insane hypocrisy we are under. Imagine if we put all that energy into solving some of the problems you mention. Democrats are literately making civilian disarmament and identity / grievance politics one of their main platform planks. I guess they have to after selling out labor and caving on environmental issues and single payer health insurance. God forbid they don’t do the bidding of their corporate owners. Basically, to sum up it’s all about control. The riots in France are largely bi-partisan and enjoy wide ranging support from France’s citizens and are about far more than just some fuel taxes. This scares the s51t out of the statists and controllers. Imagine if a similar number of protesters showed up in America, but instead of yellow safety vests they were wearing plate carriers and had slung ar/ak platform rifles and were peacefully demanding redress for their grievances as prescribed in the Constitution. This would be an onion in the ointment for those who violate the sanctity of our civil rights and liberties.

            • Profound statements right there. Thank you for expressing what we need to hear.
              Until the last few years, I never knew what the military industrial complex really meant. I assumed, like most people do/did, that it referred to our military itself. There’s still more to learn, but at least now I’m aware of it’s beginnings and of it’s agenda. The constitutional military itself is supposedly still strong and decent, minus the rogue leaders that lead them into battles that are later discovered to have been .. let’s just say ‘wrong’. The warriors themselves acted on honorable intentions, and that’s what we all must always honor.
              In order to unify for our country back, we’d have to wake up enough to realize that the inner turmoils against each other is an invented turmoil. We know in our hearts that something is ‘off’. We know in our hearts that we celebrate other people, cultures, and religions, and wish them no harm, yet we fall into step whenever the revelers sound the war drum. Everyone seems to be addicted to a ’cause’ that creates Adrenalin rushes.
              They want us divided, They want us hyped up on Adrenalin.
              Who is ‘they’? Who feeds the minds and emotions of all the people world wide? What is their agenda? So many questions pop up.
              Maybe this video is spot on?

              A little bit of good news, is that SA seems to be liberating somewhat. NK/SK have made peace. Thousands of Rhino’s and CEO’s have been resigned. Globally, people are waking up to fight the globalism agenda of the one world corporate ran govt. We just might end up united in peaceful protests yet. Never say never.

      • Tax payer- it’s reckless driving and was a misdemeanor according to the link. Don’t you want to delete this comment while you can as it, while not totally irrelevant, a pretty personal comment? None of my business I know.

        • no because the letter says she didnt report a misdemeanor and she is a pediatrician and people should know who is taking care of their child. she shouldnt use her real name if she doesnt want people to find out who she is. i personally want to know who the communists in my community are

          • C’mon. You have the right to write what you did. I won’t take it down unless you ask me to…But it doesn’t speak well of our society to attack people who have different views than we do. Criticize their ideas. Talk about what is wrong with their facts but to bring up relatively minor (or even major crimes) makes it look like you don’t believe your ideas have merits on their own.

            • But… but… that is SOP for just about every one on here. Shouldn’t be but there it is.

              • Let’s work on improving society (in this case, our comment section.)

                • I vote for it but the improvement must come without regard to the nature of the thing being defended. Applying respect for a commenter applied as a matter of principle means its done even if they are found to hold disagreeable positions.

                  Can I expect the post calling someone a racist is gone?

                • The one you alerted me to yesterday? Yes.

            • i disagree Kym because she is saying guns are a health concern and saying we dont take precautions on guns, yet we do (violent offenders and felons cant posses guns legally, just one example). i am showing how she is a hypocrite and she feels the laws dont apply to her. plus i wanted to know because maybe her crime is a health concern. and if it was reckless driving then she is a health concern behind the wheel but my ultimate point is life is not fair and it wasnt supposed to be so we use weapons to defend ourselves and she is missing that.

            • I appreciate Sonia for putting her full name out there, she obviously cares enough about her position to do that and post twice. I was hoping her or someone else would challenge my assertions, debate is good. Her position matches my wife’s, my sisters and most of my coworkers. When I tell people about the liberal gun club, they are like “that’s a joke, right?” not even. The bill of rights is pre-political and applies to all citizens, regardless of political, gender, race blah blah blah. These rights are not granted by government, they are inalienable. I am a radical centrist, lol, which just means I love to get people to move out of their respective partisan thought plantations and open up a bit. If I could just get some of my conservative friends to reject the constant state of war we are in and see that what industrial society is doing to the environment as bad, I would be pretty stoked.

              • I’m with you Erik.

                Have you watched, or remember seeing, The Great Debaters w/Denzel Washington?
                Based on a true story. Denzel went so far as to find the original students the movie is based on. His students are taught ‘how to think’, not what to think. They can debate either side, the affirmative or the negative of a subject, with the toss of a coin.

                One of my favorite lines are when Denzel is teaching them in his home one evening. The subject is ‘welfare’ -and of course, he wants evidence from the teen speakers that support their side of the debate. He begins with telling them; “Debate is combat. But your weapons are words.” Resolve: “Welfare discourages hard work. Welfare takes away a man’s strongest reason for working, which is survival. And that weakens the will of the form”.

                Music – My Soul Is A Witness.

                Marshall, Texas 1935 -pre tell-lie-vision

    • That has become another trite phrase- calling everything a “public health problem.” The real problem is the country’s every growing disrespect for it’s fellow citizens and utterly ridiculous certainty that every passing thought is a solution worth fighting over.

      A person can stand in the middle of a thousand armed people (I’ve done so on military bases) without fear if they are self disciplined but be in danger of losing your life in the presence of one angry unarmed man with a desire to harm. This country is simply too full of angry people intending to impose their will on others.

    • so because old white guys wish to off themselves wuth a firearm we should not be allowed to own them to defend ourselfs from bad folks…. the earth is over populated and if anyone wants to have their stats taken seriously maybe including only revelant numbers in the total would be helpful. so your 40k number minus 60 percent is roughly 15k deaths a year so…. not so bad with over 4million guns out there.

      • Ma Earth is Not overpopulated. We must Stop parroting the REPEATED -til we’re green, slave-speak from the crypt. The earth is meant for the living, not for the dead. -Jefferson. Me, myself and I, translate this into corporation = corpse.

        Question the manufactured reality down to the nth. We can all fit in Texas quite comfy. “Behold” -Shakespearean cyber code for ‘You must see it and read it for yourself.”

        “You can gift tasty fish to loved ones, but the ultimate is to gift them the ability to learn for themselves”.

        We can’t correct it if we all believe a lie. Global warming. Global warming. Global warming. Global warming – bull feed and heifer dust!

    • One thing is, driving is a privilege. Owning a firearm is a right as long as you qualify. To say there are no laws passed to try to mitigate the dangers of Owning Firearms is ridiculous, you live in California right? you know California has some of the strictest gun laws in the entire country right? you don’t want common-sense laws, you want to outright ban the Second Amendment. Just admit it!

      • driving is also a right. dont forget the right to travel being a right. it doesnt state how or restrict how one must travel in their life. with this driving is a right.

        • Driving – a “herd” of cattle – A Cattle Drive MOOO (how fitting. As one of the herd, don’t you agree?), over hill and dale on public property, down the public road to the marketplace -or wherever -is driving in commerce be cuz profit is being turned using the public roads. A privilege.

          Traveling is a right period

          “Owning a firearm is a right AS LONG AS YOU QUALIFY” and kiss your Master’s be-hind. You can’t serve two masters.

          Common sense laws ARE common law – and guess what? They’re not written d o w n.

          This doesn’t take a rocket surgeon.

          LET GO.

  • “The young man” “The gun toting robber” no you both are too biased in my about “The suspect”? See, no room for accusation or bleeding heart nonsense🤙🏽

  • I know we’ll get Kym straightened out anytime now 😛

  • Most everyone I know with ccs permit are infatuated with the fact they can legally carry a gun, as a nofilty, not really thinking about ever using it. I can’t imagine getting up every day and part of my morning routine is to holster my pistol for the day ahead, I have nothing against guns, and support the right to bear arms, but I don’t and never have a need to holster up a gun before I walk out the door in the morning

  • Mendo Voice has an Update: n air ambulance was called and that person was airlifted to a hospital, presumably (given the proximity of the Ukiah Valley Medical Center) out of county. Severe trauma victims are often airlifted to Santa Rosa. The victim is male and weighs 140 pounds. It is unclear if he has survived.

    Police gathered that the alleged shooter was an off duty firefighter with a concealed carry weapon permit, from Willits. Again, according to scanner traffic, the victim had apparently run from the Subway to the Ross ….

    • I hope he makes it and gets into rehab and turns his life around.

      • At least let’s hope him and his buddies think twice before holding someone at gun point (real or not) for a few hundred bucks again. Subway? That’s just a step up from a lemonade stand or a radioshack in terms of cash potential.

  • I really like the following comment from the link guest provided above:

    djw on December 13, 2018 at 5:33 pm said:

    You can choose to be a sheep, a wolf or a sheepdog. This firefighter chose to be the sheepdog, the robber chose to be the wolf and Kenff, who commented above, chooses to be a sheep. Thank God for the sheepdogs.

    • That quote is so honest it hurts. Great find CH.

    • “If you have no capacity for violence then you are a healthy productive citizen: a sheep. If you have a capacity for violence and no empathy for your fellow citizens, then you have defined an aggressive sociopath–a wolf. But what if you have a capacity for violence, and a deep love for your fellow citizens? Then you are a sheepdog, a warrior, someone who is walking the hero’s path. Someone who can walk into the heart of darkness, into the universal human phobia, and walk out unscathed.”
      A quote from On Combat, by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman

  • I think one of the biggest problems everyday citizens have is living under the delusion that the government and its employees or somehow superior to the average citizen. Police officers are not some kind of superheroes that have been trained for years to do something normal citizens can’t do. They are just normal citizens, that have a certain job. My God look at the Congressional hearings lately, I think most people on this form can articulate in a commer Manner and have a more rational decision than most Congress people on both sides of the aisle. Just look at the televised conference between Trump, Nancy,Pence and Schumer. Pence was the only one that looks rational and that’s just because he didn’t say anything. Certainly this country has better to offer than any of those four clowns.

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