Ninth Circuit Says No to Criminalizing Homeless

Person on the street with crutches [photo by Kim Sallaway]

The City of Eureka sent out a Public Camping Ordinance Update this week regarding a change in legal mandate handed down by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals.

The bulletin explains,

On a September 4, 2018 ruling (Martin v. City of Boise, 2018 U.S. App. LEXIS 25032), the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals held that a Boise, ID ordinance violated the Eighth Amendment to the extent that it imposed criminal sanctions against homeless persons for sleeping outdoors, on public property, when they had no alternative shelter access available.

The Ninth Circuit essentially ruled that criminalizing the status of being “homeless,” or criminalizing the “unavoidable consequences” of that status—such as sitting, lying or sleeping on sidewalks and other public grounds—may constitute cruel and unusual punishment.

Not just in Eureka, but everywhere, government will have to change how it approaches the societal problems caused by the tide of people who have no home.

Judicious analysis of the Martin v. Boise ruling will likely lead to amendment of the Eureka Municipal Code. Until then, continued prosecution of the City’s public camping-related and sit-lie ordinances could lead to liability for the City of Eureka. If it stands, this case could have a significant impact on municipalities with substantial homeless populations and inadequate or insufficient homeless shelter facilities. As a result, following the Martin ruling Eureka Police officers are provisionally no longer citing individuals for sleeping in public spaces under EMC 93.02 (camping prohibited) and EMC 93.03 (unlawful habitation in autos/trailers). This limited suspension of enforcement may continue until such time as the City’s ordinances and policies have been ensured to comply with this court decision.

The bulletin explains what the City will do next. Plans include supporting shelter options, developing a ‘shelter finder app,’ and continuing plans for programs such as Betty Chin’s Blue Angel Village.

Among more than a dozen bulleted points outlining Eureka’s plans are these two very important items about limits and expectations:

  • EPD will continue to clean-up illegal camps. Nobody has the right to litter in public, destroy property, trespass, create a public health or safety hazard, obstruct the flow of pedestrian and vehicular traffic, or interfere with rights of others to use public areas for their intended purposes. There is a distinction between the act of sleeping and setting up or remaining at a “campsite” on public property (or public right-of- way) for purposes of dwelling in that particular place.
  • Boise does not apply to enforcement on private property or to particular times and locations where access to public property is restricted.

 

The entire newsletter can be found here.

 

 

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142 comments

  • political moderate

    The ninth circuit is a slam dunk rubber stamp for liberal agenda.

    • So, you feel taxing the homeless and criminalizing sleep is a moderate position.

      • political moderate

        No it’s a compassionate and correct ruling. My comment is more an advocation of judicial independence. Just saying if the left needs legislation passed go to the 9th circuit. Absolutely protect the homeless through capitalism leg hobbling. Modern day robin hoods.

        • What did this ruling hobble exactly? Or are you just talking gibberish?

          • What did the ruling hobble? It hobbles those who dare to take a step into the world of self reliance. It hobbles self reliance, honor, dignity, goals and the American dream. It hobbles dreamers who dream of someday saving enough money to buy their own place. It hobbles the taxpayers into paying more taxes into the ‘free lawyer’ coffers to handle the case loads and lawsuits.
            Giving the homeless a leg up is appropriate. Selecting which ones to help is inappropriate. Homeless is homeless no matter where one be’s homeless at.

            First you people define ‘adequate’.
            Now you define ‘homeless’.

            That’s what’s hobbling the homeless and housed both.

        • Because the rich aren’t rich enough?

    • I’m a liberal, and my agenda includes hard labor. Is there some official liberal agenda posted somewhere I should be reading?

      • political moderate

        Hard labor for whom may I ask the houseless?

      • Unfortunately many hardcore leftists use the guise of being liberal or progressive to muddy the waters. Liberal just means you’re just open to others’ beliefs or ideas.

        Same way the neocons say it’s for God, country, antiterrorism, the leftists will say it for equality, social justice, etc.

      • So you would hire bat sh!t crazy people to do hard labor for you? And then what, whip them with a bullwhip when their mental conditions get in the way of reason keeping them from properly working? Smh, be realistic. Not saying they are all crazy, but how do we determine the functional from the dis functional, and who honestly wants to chance it on their own dime? In a perfect world I guess. In this world “crazy Carl” would probably hit poor Kenny in the head with a shovel by lunch time because he hears voices.

        • That is a realistic bottom line thought. One that neither the people who like broad generalisation that society owes a good life to everyone nor the people who like the idea that everyone should live with their own choices, want to hear.

          If a person with either a serious mental illness and/or a drug problem would be likely to straighten out their lives according to outside standards, they would do so all by themselves. That they don’t is pretty good evidence that they will resist doing the things that would increase the chances of improvement. The mentally ill on the streets need treatment and medication involuntarily applied and that is something neither the left (because it is inhumane and violates rights) or the right (because it is costly and violates rights) want to accept.

      • Yes Bushytails, it’s called the communist manifesto. Refer to it when you are confused.

        • Communists treated workers well, they treated the homeless pretty badly.

          • In my 1911 I trust

            Thats a good one. Glad to have my chuckle for the day. Check out the working conditions of Soviet Russia. Or maybe the working conditions of Nazi Germany under Hitler? Or perhaps, maybe just perhaps an example in this present day of how workers are treated down in Venezuela?

          • Workers in a communist country are forced to work. In the good ol USA you have the option of not working AND getting free government handouts! Ever think…. hey these people want to be where there at. Zero responsibilities,no bills, free food, steal unpunished or panhandle for drug money, goverment checks once a month. Life choices are a bitch huh? My point…. at least 50% of those homeless people you see….. choose to be there, not want, but choose.

      • Aqui esta el mariconio.

    • Screw the 9th bastards, they caused the homeless to begin with.

      • I think you mean Governor Ronald Reagan, when he emptied the asylums onto the streets in the 1970’s.

        • Or rather the liberals who sued to release the mentally ill from tyranical institutions. Reagan only shut buildings already emptied by the laws of the legislature. Another one of those magic moments where both Democrats and Republicans found themselves in accord- “Close the Institutions”- without being willing to risk deflating the public optimism balloon with the sharp point of reality that shutting the institutions did not cure the mentally ill.

          • That is incorrect. You are either mistaken or lying.

            https://www.kqed.org/news/11209729/did-the-emptying-of-mental-hospitals-contribute-to-homelessness-here

            He did the same thing on a federal level in 1980, repealing Carter-era mental healthcare grants.

            • This is one of those things that some like to believe because it suits. Yes, empting instutions did release many who could not cope onto the streets but it was because in “1963 – U.S. President John F. Kennedy called for a reduction “over a number of years and by hundreds of thousands, (in the number) of persons confined” to residential institutions and asked that methods be found “to retain in and return to the community the mentally ill and mentally retarded, and thereto restore and revitalize their lives through better health programs and strengthened educational and rehabilitation services.””

              “1967 – The Lanterman-Petris-Short Act, often abbreviated LPS, (Cal. Welf & Inst. Code, sec. 5000 et seq.) was signed into law by then-governor of California Ronald Reagan (although it only went into full effect on July 1, 1972.) The Act in effect ended all hospital commitments by the judiciary system in California, except in the case of criminal sentencing, e.g., convicted sexual offenders, and those who are “gravely disabled”, defined as unable to obtain food, clothing, or housing [Conservatorship of Susan T., 8 Cal. 4th 1005 (1994)].”

              https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_disability_rights_in_the_United_States

              Thus the buzz word “deinstitutionalization” entered the political arena. Why is it necessary to find a villian to blame? The whole process was a bipartisan effort that started long before Reagan “cleared the institutions” and continued long after. Reagan was simply a brand new elected, one month into term governor who sign the law that was passed under Pat Brown’s governorship. And he finally shit some of the institutions that were 2/3ers emptydue to this law. As did Democratic governors shut more subsequently as they emptied too.

              God this urban legend will never die.

              • Guest serving up some free education! Liberals like that, right?

              • Wrong. We blame Reagan and the repubs because they DID it. Doing away with the institutions is why there are so many crazies out on the street and he did it to shrink government. Better to admit when you are wrong, instead of equivocating. Sure, institutions are terrible places and maybe it was with good intention that we tried something else, but it didn’t work and we need to go back to what was the best of the bad options. I’m tired of all the nut cases walking around, and surely it takes energy away from the truly economic homeless who are being lumped together with the truly insane.

                • Read the history. It does not support your memories of what happened at all. It’s like blaming a car wreck on the paramedics who simply come to the wreck after it happened. That is why they are there, not that they caused the wrecks. Repeating a inaccuracy a bazillion times does not make it accurate.

                  For a discussion involving people who where actually there http://msgboard.snopes.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=001063;p=0

                  Not that anything will shake the determination to think the whole process was anywhere near as simple as “Reagan did it.” If you insist on a simply explanation, it was a change in the law created a chance for people in mental institutions to force authorities to release them. The inmates did it in droves. That is what “shut the institutions.” Period. It was the fantasy that newly discovered medications would fix everything. No need of institutions when everyone would pop a pill and stop being mentally ill. Yeah like that was what happened.

                • Maybe we need to revisit the senate hearings about the MKUltra being used without shame in many of those ‘state’ hospitals.
                  http://www.apfn.net/messageboard/06-08-04/discussion.cgi.35.html

                  The push for ‘state’ hospitals is almost a relief. They must be running out of subjects to call up at their disposal.

                  Bringing back the community ran hospitals would be a major step forward, but only if we the oh-so-caring audit the ba$tards.

              • The legend doesn’t die because many of us saw the results of Reagan’s policy first hand in the 80’s. All of a sudden there were so many mentally ill homeless people on the streets. No one had ever seen anything like it. And obviously you have no freaking idea. They were crying BTW, because many of them really didn’t understand it.

                I was a student then and we let 2 in as room mates and it wasn’t pretty. One night I came home and one of them was rhythmically stabbing the kitchen table over and over with a large knife and talking to himself- or rather arguing with his voices. I had to quietly wake my other room mates and we all left the house and slept at a friend’s house that night. The other one had no idea her bodily excretions were not welcome in other people’s spaces. And either could not or refused to learn that. Some of these people were not able to be socialized. Work? Who would hire them? To do what exactly?

                Reagan was responsible for that. I don’t hate Trump. But I actively hated Reagan.

                That winter in New England we could hear so many people wandering and crying and wailing at night. It was terrible. We just let them sleep on the landing, we didn’t dare take another in. Back then it was mostly mentally ill or drunk or on drugs. Today it is just poverty a good deal of the time- some work full time and are homeless. Those are the ones you don’t “see”.

      • These kinds of things are what a rational human being can figure out when CJ.Roberts had his hand on both the majority opinion and the dissenting opinion. My ol fishermen uncle, says all you gotta know is that he’s a Jesuit. First and foremost.
        This whole thing is a rigged game, and when no one is free from being threatened or blackmailed , you simply need to understand that they are playing above masters level chess. Anyone can be forced to make some hard decisions, but when you have friends and family that can also be threatened and used as pawns, you realize just how far the tentacles of this beast reach. Most of the people we think are in power, are merely High paid actors to the shadow executives /Power brokers who call the shots. I look at the Bush Cheney ticket to see who truly worked in the shadows.
        I think it goes deeper than an adoption circumventing the laws of another country. My thought was could the mothers have been surrogates? What do we really know. We, collectively, have been conditioned to accept some pretty messed up philosophical operating systems. Narcissistic, sociopathic, and psychopathic people at the top is the only way to see how they weave fairytales into our reality. Then we keep protesting instead of educating the next generation. We will soon be relics of the past. Like that old record player and your parents collection of those artists we have quickly forgotten. We absolutely need to make sure the next generation/s understands this fight….

        Beam me up scotty!

        • You’re spot on Sid. These are things I myself am only just learning about, or to notice, and it’s difficult to learn at the needed pace. You’re right, we need to make sure the next generation/s understands this fight. We can’t help others until we can help ourselves, but I have a feeling that we’ll all meet in a great awakening moment just in time. Right now would be nice though.
          Post script. I love your posts, you have a way of making me use my thinker.

  • I would like to see the government provide a program that would offer low paying employment and very basic housing to anyone who will reliably and safely work. Pay and housing would be such that the vast majority of participants would strive to find something better from a non-govt source. Substance abuse treatment would need to be part for many. Participants could develop skills, work/housing history, references, resume, etc. During the depression we had CCC, WPA, etc. National Parks need a bunch of work. Many, many other things they could do (fire preparedness, litter pick up, on and on).

    • “to anyone who will reliably and safely work” And that is why such programs have roughly zero members. Even getting non-homeless employees to show up on time and sober around here is a nightmare.

      • Go ahead, try training the mentally ill to work normal jobs. They do it at Gaining Ground, though heavily subsidized and with very mixed results.

        • Mental health care would obviously need to be provided. The current system seems to be working well for no one. Are these people who can’t ever be expected to participate in society? If so, does society owe them a living?

          • Does society owe them a living? That’s a stupid and cruel way to think about it. This article is about a FINE on homelessness. Do they owe society a stipend for their continued existence? Does society want its marginal citizens to get sick and die outdoors like animals? Should we institute child labor and cull the elderly? Expecting the mentally ill to get a real job or die is vicious, delusional and totally not necessary.

            • I don’t think offering help and expecting participation is vicious. If they can’t participate, perhaps we need to revive voluntary mental hospitals where they can live safely. It seems cruel to me to proceed as we currently are.

              What do you suggest? Or do you think it’s all good now that they can legally sleep on a cold sidewalk?

              • What do I suggest? Tax the rich! The Waldon family is worth 163 billion. The Koch family is worth 50 billion. Let’s just return to pre-1970’s tax levels for the top tax brackets and use that money to improve society.

                • “Improve society” is pretty vague. What would make life better for these people? I would support a program that would offer help and empower them by having them participate in society. I believe most of them could do it. What would you do for them with the Koch’s money? Heat the sidewalks?

                  Wait a minute. I’m arguing with a person who thinks providing the homeless with mental health care, substance abuse treatment, housing and a job would be cruel. Yes, I’m clearly a monster. I’d be crazy to continue this. Good luck with your “eat the rich” plan.

                • That’s the opposite of what I said. I advocate paying for social services by taxing the rich. You think that homeless should pay their own way, somehow.

                • “I would like to see a government program that would provide low-paying employment…”

                  Like I said, good luck training the mentally ill to work normal jobs.

                • Obviously you haven’t learned how pay to play works.

              • Voluntary mental hospitals is not a bad idea. It would take care of part of it. The other part is affordable rent.

            • In my 1911 I trust

              Depends on your beliefs, if you are a Christian or other religion, then yes that is cruel because it goes against the ideals of helping ones fellow man. If you are an evolutionist and believe in Darwinism then its not cruel at all. Its just natural selection, the way the world always has been.

        • Asst chief rolls with men

          It’s not just the mentally ill that can’t or wont work. I organize community service work at the fire department I volunteer for, less than half the people ordered to do community service actually show up to work , they laugh at the judicial system and fear no consequences. Meanwhile the volunteers take time out of their lives to help others .

          • If you were ordered to do slave labor for camping outside because you are homeless, wouldn’t you laugh at that system?

            • There in lies the defeat of most liberal solutions- if the benefits come with conditions such as not fighting, theft, free drug use, time frames,etc, the recipients vote with their feet. Or frequently, with their fists. They will use what is easy to obtain, resist what interferes with their impulses and complain about it all- these are very high maintenance people for social agencies.

              • Most liberal solutions to homelessness? Like what, mental health care, non-religious drug treatment and access to public housing? Those things work, where available.

                What are the conservative solutions? Criminalization of homelessness, criminalization of drugs, criminalization of everything. We know FOR SURE that kind of “solution” just perpetuates homelessness.

                • “Deinstitutionalization” was a liberal push at the time. Also, if I wanted to search it out, I’d bet that what turned out to be “criminalization” of the homeless is the result of progressives attempting to reform substandard housing and ghettoization. That’s what liberals seem to do- see something as wrong then make laws to end it as if that fixed the underlying problem. That is why all socialist and most liberal states have such a tendency to be dictatorial- they keep trying to reform human nature by laws. That it creates messes that always seem to need more and more laws is something they refuse to acknowledge. They instead blame people who said it shouldn’t be done. Probably due to an absolute belief that any means toward a good end can only fail through sabotage. The solution to this rigidity for them is to blame rather than think differently.

                  Frankly conservatives are rarely the ones passing laws as being conservative means that change is not to come from government. It’s liberals who think government is a handy dandy tool to use freely.

                • Oh, you’d “bet” that your “facts” would turn out to be true. Ok, good luck with that.

                • The communities were supposed to put their money where their mouths were and support their local hospitals. Instead, the govt worshipers rallied against any and all non-perfect issues and situations. They demanded politicians to over regulate and close down any “hospital” that was not perfect. They fined them to death, possibly literally.
                  Where were the protesters against the protesters? The insurance & lawyer companies made a fortune while the dependents suffered.
                  Where were the volunteers, activists and advocates when the nurses needed extra hands to help them out?

                  Square one: They need shelter.
                  We’re always back to square one.
                  Fix it, not fine it.

      • Are you aware that a very large percentage of “homeless” people, when provided with a safe shelter where their dogs were welcome and substance abuse counseling was available and they could shower, found real employment and moved out of the shelter within 6 months?

        • Thank you for pointing this out. The vast majority of these people are absolutely not beyond help. To pretend they are sells them short.

          • No. Many are not beyond help. A very, very few will take the chance to help themselves. A few more, if all stresses are removed from their lives by having necessities given gratis, live a healthier life. A large percentage will keep doing what they are doing until their bodies will not take it any more, usually around mid fifties- at which time they will take whatever is provided quietly without creating much more chaos. A few will kill themselves. And no one is in a position to tell one from the other.

            Little that reformers can offer will affect that. Because, despite the frequent attempts to shame those who do take care of themselves into providing , reformers are not in charge of anyone but themselves,

        • No, I’m not. Can you site those statistics?

        • Also, 88% of all “facts” quoted on the internet are made up on the spot.

    • How about making them grow organic food.like landowners do.with bio solids,human sewage,roasted at 600-900 degrees,sifted and labeled.something else.its organic,certified,certified insane like all of you.

    • Being mentally ill doesn’t stop people from being productive and good community members, personality disorders do. You guys are doing nothing to stop the stigma towards mental illness, a lot of homeless folks just don’t want to live by the rules, a large percentage of them are anti-social, what is classified as a personality disorder in the DSM. You can’t fix stupid.

      James Marmon MSW
      Former Mental Health Specialist
      Sacramento, Placer, and Lake Counties

      • And morality can’t be legislated.

      • Quoting the DSM, with all due respect, is like quoting the bible , my friend. It may have some good intention in its words, but you actually have to see who uses it for the wrong reasons.

        The never ending disorders coming from the latest issue… Google, “Unethical_human_experimentation”and tell me if you respect any profession that preys upon the mentally ill like those doctors in so many covert programs.
        “Minds of men”, documentary addresses this and so much more.
        Cheers

  • In a time of many regressive actions, this ruling is encouraging in that it states a fundamental truth.

  • Typical lib@hit BS. Filthy druggies and criminal aliens have the 9th in their back pocket. Kim Bergel wouldn’t take a homeless street urchin into her house, but this traitor sure as heck would open the floodgates to terrorists from south o’ the border.

    EPD refuses to enforce most laws to protect citizens, so no surprise here.

    • How about making them grow organic food.like landowners do.with bio solids,human sewage,roasted at 600-900 degrees,sifted and labeled.something else.its organic,certified,certified insane like all of you.

  • They could get training and used to guard the border against infiltration.

  • Twinkle Winklestein

    If you have never lived in the street, for one of the many reasons, you have no idea what you’re talking about. Haters need to be taught that, “they”, are ignorant of the fundamental Truths of Being. Golden Rule much? Homelessness is not a crime it is a result of the Shistem!!!

    • I’ve lived in a vehicle… For just long enough to get another job. Because that’s what anyone who doesn’t want to be homeless does. Homelessness has nothing to do with some nebulous “system” – it’s a personal choice that you keep making every day. And, like all bad choices, it should have negative consequences.

      • Exactly . I slept in a rescue mission one night when i was 19 because i wouldn’t try to get my shit together and my friends were tired of me crashing on their couch . It was all i really needed . Decided there was no way in hell i would be on the street ever again .

      • The “system” that’s broken is the mental healthcare system, broken since Reagan was governor. The mentally ill make up the vast majority of homeless.

        Don’t act like the homeless around here are lazy, they push shopping carts and makeshift wagons bulging with recyclables around town all day long, build shacks in remote places out of found items, all while dealing with crippling cognitive disorders. Calling the homeless lazy is snide, smug, prideful and ignorant.

        • I agree. I was told that homeless in the area must keep moving all day to keep from getting arrested. If they have a dog sitting a few minutes at a park could get them arrested and their dog goes to the shelter. I’ll say that law enforcement probably won’t enforce this however to most the risk is too much. After a while living this way takes a heavy toll on body, mind, and spirit. Lazy? Oh my how cruel are you really? Maybe attempt some empathy for a minute and loose judgement for that minute.

          • Except for the myriad of homeless camps with debris piled head height everywhere gives the lie to that idea. The police generally have sympathy for the homeless but they are caught between the public wanting them moved on and having no place for them to move on to. And the businesses have a point- between thefts, fece piles and fights, the public will stop patronizing them. It’s why I stopped shopping at the Co Op.
            And a couple of other places.

            • Maybe if we had adequate shelter for our homeless population, those things wouldn’t be a problem. Isn’t the K Mart building just sitting empty? How many other empty buildings are just sitting around, waiting for real-estate speculators to shit or get off the pot? Isn’t this what “imminent domain” is for? Eureka should turn the Kmart into an emergency shelter.

              • Define the word ADEQUATE.

                For the homeless person stuck out in the freezing sideways rain, it’s any thing that will ward off the wet and the cold. Tarps, overpasses, tents, palette shelters, slumlord housing, penthouses, salvation army, churches, backyard doghouses, … anything.
                For the socialists, it’s up to code govt housing.
                Make up your mind. Either they deserve shelter or they don’t.
                Telling a freezing person what is adequate for them is as abusive as the not allowing them to seek what is adequate for themselves.

  • Simply Wonderful!

    What a mess this will continue to be ten fold.

    • You act like fining people who have zero money was a better solution.

      • In my 1911 I trust

        Go park your car at one of the pull outs on Samoa that the homeless have occupied and take your dog for a nice walk. There is a strong chance that when you come back your back window will be smashed and your possessions will be stolen. Not to mention the abundance of used needles and used condoms that now litter the pull outs. It wasn’t like that 15 months ago. A hard line should be taken against homeless that occupy public places and start to steal and destroy other people’s property. I as well as many others have called the sheriff about this problem and nothing is done. That ruling is BS. It is a generalization, but many homeless break into people’s cars and steal. Or there are enough that do that mixed in with the ones that don’t to make it seem like they all do it. Regardless, the Samoa dunes are trashed and its because of the homeless.

        • Your solution is to find and jail them all? Good luck with that. That’s hasn’t helped yet, it won’t and probably can’t.

          • In my 1911 I trust

            Yes if it is an area that previously did not have that sort of crime until the homeless set up camp. It doesn’t take much finding since their RV’s and camps don’t move, and haven’t moved for the past year. Many of us who use that area daily can no longer recreate in those public places like we used to for fear of having our cars vandalized and broken into. Those people should be arrested just like any other person would be for committing those sorts of crimes. Their stuff should be hauled to the dump while they are in jail, they would hopefully not return to that area, and they might even learn a lesson about vandalizing and stealing other people’s stuff. So yeah to answer your question, I believe that would be a fine thing to do. Besides, I get tired of hauling trash full of used condoms and needles to the dump every couple days. I care about the beach and would like to see it clean and beautiful for everyone to enjoy, not turned into a homeless dump. My friends and I would also like to not have our cars broken into anymore and our tires stolen while we are out in the water. The homeless should not get a pass on criminal activity just because they are, well, homeless.

    • You have speed?

  • They are free to live on the streets but not on their own private property?
    http://www.offgridco.com/2017/08/19/colorado-man-kicked-off-own-property-over-motorhome/

    That’s an extremely prejudice ruling.

  • Good ruling IMO. If this was a democracy, where we could decide where our taxes go, I’m sure we’d vote to stop these endless wars, provide affordable housing, mental and medical care, and food to those in need, green energy, and jobs to those who can work. But our taxes go to kill civilians world wide and for subsidies to the very systems that sicken us, like fossilfuels, GMOs, and Pharma. Congress-same donors, same agenda. Traitors

    • And vote to end the Flu, Old Age, Bad News, etc? You can’t vote for a result. You can only vote for a process you believe will be most likely to lead to a result. And hope that the process you voted in doesn’t do the exact opposite of what you thought it would do. Which it has an unfortunate tendency to do as so many people refuse to listen to caveats from realists.

      • Some will watch it happen.
        Some will make it happen.
        Some will wonder what happened?

        ‘Same as it ever was.’

        The merry band of three percenters will drag the spineless into the light – kicking and screaming “I want “Legal” codes, ordinances, resolutions, rules and regulations.”

    • Our wars are needed to seize resources from countries without much military,madness.

      • “We did not raise armies for conquest or glory” Jefferson

        Wars fought on foreign land using America’s young sons and daughters for cannon fodder, would be more correct if it is defined for what it is – genocide.

        It’s not debt, scarcity and “over” population.

        It’s fraud, deceit and illusion.

    • That’s Trump’s goals, to stop the wars, poverty, govt dependence, corruption, etc which is why the “they” hate him.
      Distrusting any govt, including the notorious UN, is why the people are awakening and voting the bums out.

  • Twinkle Winklestein

    What, no one wants to be
    Without security. Of course the Shistem isin’t serving Truth, but those that act as if homelessness is easily overcome are ignorant of reality! Without hope the cold creeps in. Haters will suffer. Shame on you, haters of mankind, suffering follows foolishness. Trump is proof. I dare you to defy me

    • Using a word like”The Shistem” says a whole lot. Is this the thing that allows millions upon millions upon millions to provide for themselves and their families? That builds houses, raises food, provides education, etc? Maybe instead of getting angry because because there are those who are “ignorant” about overcoming homelessness because they aren’t homeless, you should respect them for having coped and not become or remained homeless themselves. Maybe listening to what people who have taken care of themselves say might provide insight on how not to be in a position where having others take care of you is your only option.

      • Thank you. It is obviously not easy to be homeless or to pull yourself out of homelessness. What is sometimes ignored is that it also isn’t easy for those who have a home to keep it. Life is hard for almost everyone.

        • It’s hard for you to pay your mortgage, so the mentally ill should be fined for camping on public property. Makes sense to me.

          • The only one who said that is you. Not the first time in this thread you have put your words in someone else’s mouth.

          • In my 1911 I trust

            I think you should take the first step to taking care of this problem and set up a nice welcoming environment on your private property for the homeless to stay, because you seem very passionate about this subject. That would be a very humanitarian thing for you to do. What say you Jaekelopterus?

          • mort – dead. guage -chains. Banks do not lend money.

            More of us need to learn how to create a Promissory Note. Your signature on the banking Promissory Note form IS the imaginary loan.

      • Dollars make us slaves of others.ask your children and females.

  • If a shelter is built at taxpayer expense then the left will claim it’s a jail.

  • If a shelter is built at taxpayer expense then the left will claim it’s a jail. So they will continue to camp everywhere,burn down more buildings, defecate on the streets and break into cars and leave their trash everywhere. Great job, ninth circuit.

  • Twinkle Winklestein

    The status quo has to go. Yes pulling yourself up by the bootstraps is commendable, yes life is a challenge, however, this is not an us or them situation. Our political/economic system does not serve Truth, or people, it is purely about profit. at any cost. To gain the world is to lose your Soul. America is a slavery nation, the dollar is the Master

    • You can’t serve two masters.

      The prohibition against graven images* is before the prohibition of murder.

      *doll hair$ -with one vertical line thru the symbol
      *indo-Mendo, indo-Humco, indo-Trinco (thanks HOJ in Training)

    • You projected perfectly the socialists agenda.

      • SOCIALISM
        You have two cows.
        You give one to your neighbor.

        COMMUNISM
        You have two cows.
        The State takes both and gives you some milk.

        FASCISM
        You have two cows.
        The State takes both and sells you some milk.

        BUREAUCRATISM
        You have two cows.
        The State takes both, shoots one, milks the other and then throws the milk away.

        TRADITIONAL CAPITALISM
        You have two cows.
        You sell one and buy a bull.
        Your herd multiplies, and the economy grows.
        You sell them and retire on the income.

        VENTURE CAPITALISM
        You have two cows.
        You sell three of them to your publicly listed company, using letters of credit opened by your brother in-law at the bank, then execute a debt/equity swap with an associated general offer so that you get all four cows back, with an exemption for five cows. The milk rights of the six cows are transferred via an intermediary to a Cayman Island Company secretly owned by the majority shareholder who sells the rights to all seven cows to your listed company. The annual report says the company owns eight cows, with an option on one more.

        AN AMERICAN CORPORATION
        You have two cows.
        You sell one and force the other to produce the milk of four cows.
        Later you hire a consultant to analyze why the cow died.

        AN ITALIAN CORPORATION
        You have two cows, but don’t know where they are.
        You decide to have lunch.

        A SWISS CORPORATION
        You have 5,000 cows. None of them belong to you.
        You charge the owners for storing them.

        • Part 2 of 2

          A CHINESE CORPORATION
          You have two cows.
          You have 300 people milking them.
          You claim that you have full employment and high bovine productivity.
          You arrest the newsman who reported the real situation.

          AN INDIAN CORPORATION
          You have two cows.
          You worship them.

          A BRITISH CORPORATION
          You have two cows.
          Both are mad.

          AN IRAQI CORPORATION
          Everyone thinks you have lots of cows.
          You tell them that you have none.
          Nobody believes you, so they bomb the crap out of you and invade your country.
          You still have no cows but at least you are now a Democracy.

          AN AUSTRALIAN CORPORATION
          You have two cows.
          Business seems pretty good.
          You close the office and go for a few beers to celebrate.

          A NEW ZEALAND CORPORATION
          You have two cows.
          The one on the left looks very attractive.

          A GREEK CORPORATION
          You have two cows borrowed from French and German banks.
          You eat both of them.
          The banks call to collect their milk, but you cannot deliver so you call the IMF.
          The IMF loans you two cows.
          You eat both of them.
          The banks and the IMF call to collect their cows/milk.
          You are out getting a haircut.

  • Slippery slope…. While I support no one being cited for example sleeping in their car, the crime, drugs,etc often associated with the houseless will only increase if there are no boundaries/penalties to define what behaviors/living scenarios are expected to keep your community civil . I mean maybe I’ll just rent out my house and go live in my car on the streets of eureka to save money….It’s apparantly legal .(but like someone pointed out I can’t buy a vacant lot and do the same)

    • In my 1911 I trust

      Amen to that, there is a lot of prime real-estate in the dunes that I would have to work my whole life to be able to afford to live at. I could just park my car there though, stop working, collect a welfare check, live exactly where I want to, and be paid while doing it! No wonder a lot of those people have no reason to integrate into a productive society and get a job. They have it right, we’ve all been duped!

    • The old old worn out phrase “As long as you’re paying your taxes (greasing our palms), you’re fine with us” doesn’t ring true anymore.

  • It is more social too.scared?

    • In my 1911 I trust

      No just too respectful of other’s hard earned money. Refusing to accept a hand out from the gov’t because it really is just a cut off all my neighbors’ hard earned money that I would receive for doing nothing. Seems like a complacent and unfulfilling way to live. It is an option however, and sets a bad example for future generations who can see that they are able to live where they want, do what they want, and never have to lift a finger to earn it. “The collapse of democracy will happen when the majority realizes they can vote themselves the public treasury” -Thomas Jefferson

  • Twinkle Winklestein

    Fear is ignorance, yet all too “real”, for most. Scary is this paradigm we sheepishly support. Wake up people, we are under attack, all of us, by our own complacency!

  • Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values and your values become your destiny. – Ghandi

    Same as it ever was -divide and conquer.

    All wars$ are banker’$ war$ – nothing (debt notes), for something (labor, life, liberty). The slave masters don’t give a rat’s backside about the programmed masses bickering over left, right, moderate, liberal neo-conservatives in their democratic, re-public bubble of human re-source.

    Bribes labeled Grants serves the purpose of keeping the ‘top down’ illusion in place. “We’re FEMA and we’re here to help you.”

    Eden is burning.

  • Or back up to belief. Research and come to your own logical conclusions . . . unless a missing fact is discovered that changes your belief.

    War Castles
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=887JwMz55-o

    “If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks…will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered…. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.” . . . “Paper is poverty. It is the ghost of money and not money itself.”– Thomas Jefferson, 1743-1826

  • Not having any kind of shelter is an atrocity.
    Owning or renting out a shanty is an atrocity.

    It’s never about ‘shelter’. It’s about control.

  • We are all just prisoners here of our own device. Eagles/Hotel California

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