‘If You’re Not at the Table, You’re on the Menu’: A Call to Action From the Humboldt Cannabis Council

Welcome to our letters to the editor/opinion section. To submit yours for consideration, please send to mskymkemp@gmail.com. Please consider including an image to be used–either a photograph of you or something applicable to the letter. However, an image is not necessary for publication. Remember opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect that of Redheaded Blackbelt.


HCC says the green dots represents Humboldt County parcels with registrations or applications submitted for cannbis related permits by October 26—growing, manufacturing, distributing, etc. [Click on map for a large .pdf version]

The following letter to the editor is from the thirteen member Humboldt Cannabis Council (HCC). This group recently formed and is reaching out to the grower community with the following letter.

First, here’s their mission statement:

The Humboldt Cannabis Council offers leadership in a dynamic time for cannabis regulations and policies. We bring diverse professional expertise to engage industry, cities, counties, and states that are seeking information, solutions, and best management practices. We represent many stakeholders from the world’s largest brain trust of all things cannabis. We strive to offer independent advice for the cannabis community & government regulators as legal and social landscapes change.


To Humboldt Cannabis Farmers:

Time is running out to continue to be a legal cannabis farmer in Humboldt County. The Planning Department will stop accepting commercial cannabis Application Forms at 4pm on December 30, 2016, in order to perform an Environmental Impact Review throughout the whole of Humboldt County which is expected to take 2 or more years. The provision in SB 420 affording legal protection to patient collectives and cooperatives (your Prop 215 grow), will sunset one year after Medical Cannabis Regulation and Safety Act (MCRSA) licenses have commenced. After that, all cannabis collectives will have to be licensed under MCRSA, except for individual patient and caregiver gardens serving no more than five patients. Being in compliance with county regulations is a MCRSA requirement.

Farms working towards compliance with MCRSA and Prop 64 licensing are procuring water rights, working with California Department of Fish and Wildlife, improving their land to remove environmental obstacles to their businesses, and turning their red dots to green on county maps. Those tasked with enforcing regulations and the law will then target their resources according to information gained during the EIR and permitting processes. There is only one modern proverb that comes to mind: “If you’re not at the table, you’re on the menu.”

Filing an Application Form and associated fees before the deadline, and committing to finishing that application, even if it takes months, is the best way forward for an existing or proposed cannabis farm (http://www.humboldtgov.org/DocumentCenter/View/340).

Now is the time to do the hard work of formalizing your family farm’s resources & practices into a legacy that your children can proudly and publicly share with the world. It’s time to step out of the shadows and gray markets and begin to drive the local economy from the front seat. By becoming fully permitted and complying with regulations, you will be assuring that your environmental impacts are minimized and that you’re not at risk of being heavily penalized by enforcing agencies. Please, join us in creating the sustainable cannabis future that we know can exist, not just for our community, but for our country and the world.Signed:


Joanna Berg, Dirty Business Soil, Certified Soil Scientist/Co-­‐Owner

Stephen Dillon, Humboldt Sun Growers Guild/True Humboldt, CEO

Stephen Gieder, Northcoast Horticulture Supply/Humboldt Green, Executive Director/Owner

Paul Hagen, North Coast Environmental Law Office, Regulatory Compliance Attorney

Hollie Hall Ph.D., Hollie Hall & Associates, Watershed Resource Specialist/Owner

Ken Hamik, Hummingbird Wellness Center, Co-­‐Owner

Brad Job P.E., Pacific Watershed and Associates, Civil/Environmental Engineer

Tom Leroy, Pacific Watershed Associates, Certified Engineering Geologist

Dan Mar, High Tide Permaculture, Certified Permaculture Designer/Owner

Gretchen Miller, Kiskanu, Cannabis Therapy Consultant

Joe Moran, Humboldt Green, Senior Planner/Operations Manager

Nick Robinson, Timberland Resource Consultants, Forester

Seer Snively, Humboldt Green, Technical Specialist




  • Seems everyone on this list profits from you .They are running out of customers and need more ,The state has stated no matter how much you spend with theses consultants is NO GUARANTEE THAT YOU WILL GET A STATE GROWING LICENSE > You could be wasting thousands of dollars for nothing .

    • You are misinformed APL, which is understandable because there’s so much to stay on top of. If you are in good standing with your local jurisdictions, the state should give you a licence to operate. The water quality control board is even going so far as to give farmers an extra 2 years to get into compliance with their regulations, during which time you can still grow.

      As for the above signers being driven by profit seeking, they are in effect a trade association made up of business people who are guiding other business people through a very new and complex regulatory processes. They should be allowed to profit from their work, just like growers. Why would you have issues with that?…

      • I have no issue with people soliciting their services but I do have issue with them being inaccurate in there dissemination of the laws and timelines. There is most certainly some scare tactic language in that op-ed above and definitely some inaccurate information

        • Sequoia, what parts do you specifically take issue with? I don’t really see anything that is not in line with current policy…

          • You know you can’t trust it when the first sentence is a total lie. “Time is running out to continue to be a legal cannabis farmer in Humboldt County.” “Continue” I didn’t know all theses farms were legal before! – pencil pushers that just want their share of the money. Don’t be a sheep

      • Water permitting is so back logged it will take two or more years to even start the process. Total joke!

    • It’s ALL about profit.

      “We used to make shit in this country, built shit. Now we just stick our hand in the next guys pocket”
      –Sobotka, The Wire

      • B boy, are you saying that the people who used to “make shit” didn’t charge other people for their manufactured goods? When was this?…

        • Marc- I think its understandable for people to be skeptical about this. Here we have a letter to the editor by people who have stake in the game of ‘permitting’ and ‘consulting’ that has a very strong tone of scare tactics. That being said, I do think they are honestly expressing their positions. I think things will go on as usual here in humboldt county for some years to come. I think the people getting the permits and going the legal route will feel like they got duped because the benefits to going legal will be some ways off, esp with the new administration (possible jeff sessions attorney general!).
          I think there is ALOT of room for skepticism and if you are just lining up like lemmings to fill out your paperwork and not thinking this out, you’re dumb.
          Remember- you are signing up to only sell in medical Cal market (which is flooded) and you are putting all your info in the public domain AND you are going to get every part of your farm permitted: septic, roads, buildings, employees all above the table, products all tracked and traced, taxes upon taxes… Basically what every other business in the world does. Are you ready for that?

          • Exactly Emily.

          • You are so right, for example, you get 3/4 through the county permitting and your permit is denied for any reason, the county may make you prove you were an existing farm or business, but your so called neighbors oppose your legalities in any way or form like the smell or a setback disagreement to the non-existing grow in a previous grow that you claim in your plan of attack and county turns down the business and you are out a whole lot of money, the neighbors can also call F.B.I to look into the Federal fair housing and employment to investigate your business even if approved by county. I have been warned of this legality from the B.OE. and they are the world of knowledge on the business end of things the county just want a selected amount of people to apply for there own and later pick and choose,First hand a family farm denied because they only lived local for a few years and they were denied a permit cause they could not prove they purchased the property to farm and claimed they came to the county just to profit and claimed them non existing business farmers prior to applying along with the neighbors upset that the L.E.O let them grow legally. They wasted thousands,the man and wife told the story in front of over 100 people at Arcata canna- business meeting,after the county first started the commercial permitting. so be aware NO REFUNDED FEE for the family cause they got so far in it cost all the way up to being denied, now they hope lawyer will help them pro-bono or something of a miracle or a real job to pay for his family and that high fee is over 10 grand when all said and done and that is with out a lawyer,I wont say it twice do not do this, just remember the family parcel splitting a few years ago of properties over an acre,make you wonder what the county is really up to. Get a good lawyer either way to protect your property and family is first. county wants the property we all own to break it up into several separate parcels,the county tried this on me four years ago I am on pine hill with three acres. I responded using the fair housing and employment act as a defense and it worked, stating that I bought the property to farm for a business in near future. Now I have to use the same defense to get the county to issue a non commercial business license in which they have no clue cause they focus on only commercial big $ for county and regulate all of us as commercial so be careful getting into commercial legalities, no protection on the patient end of things even if your just a trimmer farmer will have to register you as commercial, may even talk you into a agreement, just volunteer unless you want to taxed for employment trust me it is all changing all for the boss to get exemptions of you being a patient, or a taxed slave compared to the wild wild west now. I know confusing b.s I am not a lawyer nor can I afford one. On non commercial end of things a person or persons can form a collective of 5 or less and prosper as legal business no store front if you are business savoy and have product availability and want to talk or chat of or share ideas I have a lot of space and I am California B.O.E. permitted. Need a partner or invested person you do not have to be 215 to do business as long as your 21 and can communicate well to keep supply on wholesale end of things and of course retail delivery , if interested in your own business and need help I barter for knowledge or take donations, I will drive you to your appointments to get you legal compliant as a patient and if you need a caregiver you can designate me so you can gain immunity . I set up a free email to chat of the Humboldt green rush and the legal end of things at help6996@mail.com. HEW sorry for all that but it is insane how much monies the county is going to allow the commercial grower, patients need to get with it and expand the needs of patient to patient to prosper also before it is to late. Katimin at help6996@mail.com. Women need business to in Humboldt,planning dept needs to get with it,all started by patients.

          • The green dot is now a bullseye!!

    • the misadventures of bunjee

      So sayeth the angry troll.

    • lol. We all profit from paying attention and doing something about our reality vs trolling

  • Everybody who has listed their name on that release are making money off of this. They are the pencil pushers and clipboard people who are indirectly threatening you. I know a number of them personally- they never had the balls to grow but they have found a cool way to make money off of your work. Parasites. Your continued ability to make a living is questionable in the face of the huge impending fields of producers and mounting fees, taxes,etc etc. Yet these people are guaranteed to get paid because they have their hand in your pocket. Remember that when dealing with them!

    • Well said! Everyone on this list could jump off a cliff, you won’t be missed. CEOs, and executive director grow-a-holic cannathugs lecturing the little folks, lmao! Did you hear, trump won.

    • They are offering a service B Brown. It’s a complicated process and most growers should be thankful that they are here. It’s time to team up or fade away…

    • I agree with BB. I spoke with a number of consultants who were ready and willing to take my money. However one meeting with the department of planning and I was told I’m not even eligible for a permit! These people are not to be trusted anymore than a blackmarket dealer. Some have integrity and some don’t, unfortunately many of them make you pay up front before they perform services. Good luck out there.

    • Yo Bobby. So Im on that list. Dint have the balls to grow? Thats cute. I can tell you growing up here that there is pressure to grow weed. What ever. Instead I went into forestry and have spent the past 20 years basically mitigating against what our fathers did in the hills before us. Ironically, while our timber industry modernized, pot has gone and repeated many of the same mistakes of the past. If growers had developed sustainable water systems, invested back into their roads, didn’t grade into riparian areas, etc.. perhaps ganja farmers wouldn’t need advice from parasites like me. Who knows? But yah know, there has been a constant steady drum beat of dos and donts in the hills in Humboldt for many a years and sadly many people have not been listening. We never went seeking this work. It came to us. And believe me some times you want to shrug and walk away. Just doing it for the cause. xoxoxo Nick

      • AnonymousHumboldtian

        I’m glad that I decided to use a different company than TRC. I love the blanket statement that all growers commited egregious environmental crimes. Just doing it for the “cause”, that gave me a really good chuckle. I wouldn’t go as far as to call you a parasite, but i would call you a leech who saw a great opportunity to make money. If you really were doing it for “the cause”. Why don’t you do your work pro bono?

  • The Ostrich Hunter

    Jeff Sessions cometh, legal weed goeth.

    Wait and see.

    • Can’t wait to see who he names to head the DEA. When they come right here to knock down the arrogant mega-growers turned permit-swankers many of us will have a good laugh.

  • Inequality and malnutrition makes world more dangerous daily.organic gardening is based on Granulite.if the people who make money easily would strive to improve the feeding of their masses.they would do it by beginning to import phytoplankton from below dried up inland sea.

  • What’s wrong with making money off of a growing industry? You could add my business to that list as well because I also will be making money from the new regulations. In the last couple of years there have been farmers,elected officials,business owners and many others who have been telling people to come into compliance and yet there are still some people out there who don’t believe that their own business is in jeopardy. If you follow the rules and regulations why wouldn’t you be able to get a license from the county and the state?

  • I am cracking up at the lack of positivity reflected in the comments already. I can guarantee that the hatred and vitriol spewed will not contribute to a happier, healthier, more sustainable community. Keep at it, I will check back in later after I am finished helping a local farmer prepare to reach a water use agreement with CDFW.

    • If your not at the table, your under it. I will stay under the table as we always have. Just another day in paradise. Off goes another box of produce today. Life goes on as it always has. The permit players will have a rude awakening once the new administration ramps up their conservative agenda.

      • Zactly

      • Wont happen your either commercial or non-commercial and non is only five patients or less, oh you can count yourself in make it six hundred square feet,along with B.O.E if sell or retail in any way or wholesale. They have all of us on there radar either way cause of fly over data,county is just waiting us out to see who wants to loose there parcel or parcel grow fines are huge if found to be over the five patient grow limit of 600 feet for five and yourself, if not your in federal warrant fear of local fines have been adopted and with that said also property abatement from county. oh my who needs it .grow for yourself cause they know all of us from fly over data trust me I have been warned by attorneys of local county gearing up with the tax monies and permit program is a killer for all black market , mostly parcel owners so dont trust so much. Even if you posted your real name Jorge, grow up be a smart grower not smart ass, I could be a fed not’ but they read the post all day da I can just see him with his cookies and milk, not donuts cause they got the munchies off our weed they can not get enough of lol.

    • Been here since ’81, Hollie. I know the quick response is to label any criticism as “negative”. I don’t know you but I’m speaking from a place of deep understanding of my community. Mega-growers ruined our scene and now you government agents are gonna “help us all out”. For a large fee, of course… We used to have a dismissive term for your position also.It was “sell out”. The smell on this notice is one of “Buy in with us or you will be targeted. And we are fine with that”. I don’t like you. Oh- I’m being negative again!

    • Keep up the good work Hollie. People handle change in different ways. Don’t let their fear and how they vocalize it bum you out…

    • If your not at the table, your under it. I will stay under the table as we always have. Just another day in paradise. Off with another box of produce today. Life goes on as it always had. The permit players will have a rude awakening once the new administration ramps up their conservative agenda.

    • You must be so proud. A farmer’s friend!

    • Actually I really don’t think this is anything to “crack up” about. Paying lots of money to comply for something that might not be allowed in a few years is nothing to laugh about. And I’m talking about the small farmers not the big shows where money is no object at all.

    • I filled out my water use agreement for free in a half hour .I have seen some of the grows you and your crew inspect .You are helping people still destroy the environment .I have seen green houses that are to close to the river you have inspected .That guy from fortuna same thing inspecting farms that are to close to the river Just hand over the money …..We will keep the law off your back

  • Alright!!! Let’s post everyone’s locations for the thieves. Many applicants live far from cities and LEO assist when needed. Hmmm the locations should be held as confidential information between the county and applicant. Unless of course the applicant agrees to location disclosure. MEDICAL information is confidential so why shouldn’t the other MEDICAL be treated likewise. With the ever increasing robberies and thefts in the industry some modesty, humbleness and security improvements are sorely needed!

    • the misadventures of bunjee

      Green dots on a map won’t increase crime any more than someone with Google Earth or other aerial maps will. Or a spotting scope from another hillside. The thing with “medical” is that it’s not classified a an actual “medicine”. Only the FDA can give that designation. Unless you want a ridiculously higher level of gov’t intrusion, and a carte blanche for corporate grows to invade (the investors are already lining up on Wall Street) keep it in that gray, more holistic “medical-ish” zone. The devil is in the details.

    • Mendo Mama, clicking on the map to make it larger will only give a very general idea of where locations are. Precisely locating these addresses requires a trip to the Planning Department where the information is public record.

      • Okay thank you Kym. Previously, before drones, Google Earth and GPS there was air space privacy correct?? 500 feet above was the space I seem to recall. What has happened to vertical privacy? Is there not a right for certain space? When will vertical privacy be discussed? One can see people sitting on their porches. last time I checked when people were watching you and you didn’t even know they were called a peeping tom eh??

        • As an airplane nut, let me just chime in. 🙂

          The 500 feet was the air space above your land that you can use for whatever (kites, balloons, RC planes) before you have to get the FAA involved. Now with drones, you must be a drone pilot to use that space with a drone. You never had “privacy” in the airspace above your land.

        • the misadventures of bunjee

          Those are FAA rules and apply to flight traffic, not who possibly might look out a window or through a camera and inadvertently catch you doing something in a photo. For example, I can fly a little Cessna over a beach at 500 feet in uncontrolled airspace, or in an area that does not have any other prohibitions or restrictions or threat to safety. You might be thinking of airspace in general, and that idea varies country by country. Basically you can’t tell someone just cruising by or overhead that they cannot do that just because it makes you uncomfortable if no federal or state rules already apply. Of course the local solution to a drone in your yard seems to be to just shoot it out of the sky.

          Edit: Old article on this. FAA rules are already in place

      • Bullshit, Kym! Precisely locating these addresses only requires clicking on the links generously provided by your former associates at Lost Coast Outpost. Hank has shown time and again he’s more than willing to risk people’s livelihood and safety if it gets him some clicks. He already published all those parcel numbers once last summer and we all know damn well he’s going to do it again just as soon as there’s a big enough uptick in the number of applications for him to make another big splash and get people whispering about their neighbors again. Registration under the current system is a sure way to sacrifice any semblance of privacy and with your privacy goes your security.

        Small timers who are just growing a little on the side to get by – those who have the smallest environmental footprint on the watersheds – have plenty to fear both with respect to the risk of home invasion robbery and the security of their other employment if they are unlucky enough to depend on income from the straight economy where they might be judged for involvement in cannabis even if it is perfectly legal. Not to mention the renewed threat of federal prosecution now that it looks like Jeff Sessions will be USAG and Melinda Haag will likely be coming after us once again.

        • I’m not sure how this map locates any address. Try to make a guess on which road those green dots are located. I did. I spent some time trying. I couldn’t or I wouldn’t have posted this. Maybe you are better than I am. In which case show me how it pinpoints a specific address and I’ll take it down.

          • I wasn’t talking about the map, I was talking about specific parcel numbers and their respective owners’ names that were published in a PDF by Lost Coast Outpost.

            I just went back and re-downloaded that document though and realize now that the parcel numbers as well as addresses were in fact redacted.

            However, in the original document that I downloaded from LoCo back in August many of the entries in the two description columns contained APNs when it was first published. It appears Hank went back and redacted that information at some point after I’d first downloaded it. But in any case property owners’ names are still there for anybody to easily access online, which still supports my point about employment security and still exposes the property to invasion if any potential robber already knows where a specific applicant lives.

            So the point remains, beyond the threat of federal legal action under our new mercurial right wing regime (states’ rights be damned), Hank Sims has taken it upon himself to ensure that signing up for this registry is a huge roll of the dice with your future safety and security.

            This is a GIGANTIC elephant in the room. Unless and until the county steps up and addresses this problem in a way that can give people some measure of confidence that they are not shooting themselves in the foot, then we can expect a continuation of people’s reluctance to participate.

            • insignificant citizen

              Like how k.hoover took news crews around arcata. Gotta get the ego strokes of attention. Selling this community downstream for ratings. Sad how ive watched this area fall apart from legalization.

          • Local word of mouth from neighbors that disapprove or are just bias and are selling neighbors out to be robbed or assaulted and most have kids and such as family settings, not cool to pin point then, we as locals know most the area roads and back roads are single family residents. and from a safety aspect I would be pissed off if my green dot got robbed in future. makes no sense to pin them all and family online to be extorted.

            • Look, you tell me one address based on that green dot map and I’ll pull it. But you won’t be able to because it was never intended to show the exact place just the rough area. Google maps is a much better way to find out who is a grower.

      • Kym, in Calaveras County, the local newspaper, the Enterprise, published the list of registered growers in pdf format. It is a matter of public record however its publication did raise the level of concern among residents, both farmers and non-farmers. As someone mentioned in another response, the Outpost is likely to do the same with the list of registered growers in Humboldt.


      • They published the public record with parcel numbers and names !

    • Didn’t you hear, pot was legalized. There will be no more violent associated with marijuana it’s now legal. Yeah we’ll see how that works out.

  • On a lighter note, the Cannabis Horticultural Association has launched its website. It’s a horticultural resource center for those interested in procuring the highest quality quality cannabis with sustainable management practices. The CHA is building a community around the science of cannabis horticulture. Look for the worlds first cannabis IPM Handbook to drop this spring.

  • More hilariously they talk of coming to a more environmentally friendly growing scene, when some of the founding fathers, not the seemingly neutral names and faces placed on this list but the real founding fathers whos mega grows are exactly what’s wrong with our communities. They shit all over their parcels leaving environmental disasters everywhere they go, just like the trashy out of Towner’s, while flying their compliant flag high in the air. I know all of this without speculation. So go on ahead and donate to your riteous local compliance group. They’re the spokespeople for some of the most disgusting mega grows and disgusting people I’ve had the unfortunate privilege of meeting.

  • It is funny, I was told in person by ccvh that I was either with them or against them. Sounds familiar. It so sad to watch my friends get worked over by all these agencies.

    • the misadventures of bunjee

      I hate that sort of binary thinking. No room for gray areas whatsoever so that things can apply more reasonably. It’s us vs. them all the time.

  • Why is their a time limit on applications??that’s not right.

    • The Land Use Ordinance was met with a lawsuit, and the outcome of that suit required an Environmental Impact Report on how cannabis cultivation effects all of Humboldt County, which will most likely take years to complete. The county will stop accepting applications on Dec 30th and not start up again until after the EIR is complete and the county meets to decide what to do next.

  • Some of these applications are in neighborhoods that limit commercial activity with civil CCR’s. These small ranchettes are meant for families that want a steer, a couple of horses, or a goat etc. Most of the neighbors abhor the activity that will change these peaceful residences forever. The only way to retain the meaning of the neighborhood will be to band together and file a lawsuit to defend the civil codes. We are ready to do that in our neighborhood.

    • And good for you!! Ive been here a long time and never have I seen such disrespect and overt don’t-give-a-damn attitude by growers that have changed the very fabric of just about every neighborhood and community. Getting a permit isn’t going to change these people, it’s giving them more swagger. Long time residents are moving to get away from this plague, being replaced by even more growers. It’s a shit show and I just laugh at what these ” professionals” offer. As far as I’m concerned they are part of the problem, not the solution.

  • It sounds like a threat to me too. I’ve seen the fee schedule … i see people still sitting on deps not to mention THE FLOOD of fall bud barely moving locally. The 800$ top shelf pound is coming. Yet regular fees (permitting h20 culverts etc ) will remain constant. Don’t pull my short hairs.

  • This thread is quite amusing and I couldn’t be happier to not have my name posted and slandered for doing the right thing. It is very possibly unfair to throw everyone into the same batch of worms called profiteers. There are definitely some choice few on that list that stand only to gain, even at someone elses loss or expense. But hey, anyone will buy into a service if they believe the story that is spun. And as small as Humboldt County is, you can cover a lot of ground and never have to deal with any of those types of folks. Additionally, there are absolutely no guarantees for anyone in this process and yes there are major constraints, $$$ being a big one for most people who are just paying the bills and cannot afford new infrastructure or major road improvements. There are many different types of applicants in this process. It is their decision to make the choice and from all that I have seen, regulation will be a good thing for this rampant industry. We do not pressure our clients to make a decision, rather inform them heavily of the responsibilities that will be expected of them and prepare them for what is to come if they make that decision. We are here to help if they need the assistance and will be here to help when the industry unfolds.

    • Free advertising? Another farmers friend? If your “farmer” clients buy truckloads of soil, they ain’t farmers, they’re pot growers! The spin gives me vertigo, as I LOL!

    • the misadventures of bunjee

      Pick an industry Teisha and someone will find fault with it even if it lets one walk on water. This is a major turning point and a lot of people are uncomfortable with the changes. But many others DO want the changes and at least one less monkey on their backs. Someone somewhere is always going to want a cut of your pie, or the pie in general but I’d rather it be done with something I can pay online than at the end of a gun barrel.

    • just paying the bills

      And their trips to Thailand, and their new, swank house and their awesome new pick-up (or 2 or 3)…so fucking tired of potgrowers just sayin’ their payin’ the bills! Pot is what has enabled them to their grand lifestyle, while others, without the land/cash, are having a hard time housing themselves and paying for the exorbitant grocery bill.

      Class matters here in awesome Humboldt, too.

      Dope yuppies suck.

  • Probably a Democrat

    Just because the government says so now it’s the “right thing” to sign up,? While all these people made money off the illegal weed market. Just a bunch hypocrites. Keep it underground.

  • What will happen if the Environmental Impact Report comes back negatively?

    • Funny thing, the people I know that got permits can’t answer any of my questions concerning the process, what they’ll have to do to comply etc, I get a big ” I don’t know”. All they know is that they are registered. What’s wrong with this picture? I’ve even asked a consultant some questions. They throw their arms up and say “I don’t know”. My guess is a lot of people signed up to eek out another year and have no intentions with following thru with the actual permitting and what it takes.

      • Well if you want to know where the confusion lies go take your questions to the planning dept. They cant give you a straight answer anytime. Really no one seems to be able to give straight answers. Thats why there were problems last season, folks have application filed but cops show up and say doesnt matter youre not in compliance even tho as a grower no one has been able to tell you exactly what compliance means. The fish and game guy was at a property doing their checks and the cops came to bust while he was there! This is one reason why so many folks are hesitant to get involved.

        When the lady from the states new pot program came to present in Arcata, she said we really dont know what we’re doing and we’re looking to you to lead us. Wtf?! So basically a bunch of locals filled her in. Thats scary.
        And yes some people did apply for permit who may pull out but thats because the county said it wont take new applications for 3 years after this next deadline.

        Its pretty ridiculous and screams prop 215 where the cops were basically making up the law as they went along, never got a straight answer from them either.
        Take a look at the taxes and permit costs, its not a sustainable plan at all, will barely eek a living after costs which you cant write off for taxes. Theres no way the cops are going to give up the cash cow of taking peoples things to sell, and the cash of course. These rules/taxes make sure that therez still a black market for the cops to bust. The feds could come in and back them. If you cant prove how you paid for anything in your life then dont get into the permit process. Under this new pres theres high probability that the list of permit applications will become the list of folks for the IRS to visit and bust. This new pres is gonna run the country like a business and that means making as much money for him and his buddies.


    • The environmental improvements created by farmers fixing old roads alone are so vast that it would be very difficult for the EIR to find improvements to existing farmlands environmentally degrading.

    • Honestly, I can think of a million worse cases for negative environmental reports. Like clear cutting all over the world. Cattle industry is number 1 environmental disaster. And so forth! “They” always will try to point at the small people so ‘they’ (1% rich people) dont have to point at themselves. I much rather see a million of small pot farms, than billions of acres of GMO food that ‘they’ feed to us! Give me a break! No one would care if I had a 2 acre vegetable farm and sell it at the farmers market and make my living with!

  • If you think you can trust the government ask an Indian.
    They are trying to divide and conquer our communities for their financial gain. Gavin Newsoms brother is one of the largest dispensary owners in California. Its politicians lawyers and frat boys that will take over. Leaving the good people who built this out. We live in this area to be free of this b.s. Now they are bringing it to our doorstep. Because like IRAQ we got oil.

  • Probably a Democrat

    Maybe a world filled with everybody producing things we need instead of a world filled with paperwork and beuracracy and people making money off if other people’s work Wed have a better place for our children. That’s how we roll. You should join us. 100 plus million people didn’t vote. 50 million can’t vote. That system doesn’t work and that says so. We must create our own systems now. Pot growers calling themselves farmers. If every pot grower grew the same amount of veggies they do pot Wed be the breadbasket if America for real and all the homeless disenfranchised would at least have decent food. Josh sweet could even eat good!

    • You’re right; we need to be looking toward the future. Growing our own food, developing our own energy systems…and we sure a shit should *QUIT* making more high-livin’, resource sucking BABIES! I swear, young women around here carry them around (or stroll them around in their $1,000 strollers) like the latest designer accessory!

      The *future* that’s coming isn’t going to be all down comforters and Frye boots.

      We’re all going to need to dial down our lifestyles if we have any hope at all of surviving climate change…but I personally think it’s too late for that. It makes me sad that we’re taking so much beauty and joy along on the way to extinction.

      • “we need to be looking toward the future. Growing our own food, developing our own energy systems…”

        Some of us have been doing that since before the publication of the first Whole Earth Catalog.

        “We’re all going to need to dial down our lifestyles if we have any hope at all of surviving climate change…but I personally think it’s too late for that.”

        Pinch yourself. Still alive? Then it’s not too late. Radical solutions for radical problems. Radical = “of the roots”.

        • But we still depend on those trucks comin’ in, huh?

          And who can deny the change to the ‘community’ in the last 15-20 years.

          Conspicuous consumption on steroids, and just because the rest of the country ‘is doin’ it’ doesn’t make it smart, does it?

          There is absolutely *zero* attempts at localizing happening here. It’s all about the next big boogie and your trip to Hawaii.

          And what is up with all the Gansta crap?

          • “But we still depend on those trucks comin’ in, huh?”

            Perhaps the colloquial ‘we’, but not me and maybe not you either.

            “There is absolutely *zero* attempts at localizing happening here.”

            “localizing” what exactly and in what way?

            • food production, energy sources, protecting our access to water


              Everyone too busy on their estates in the hills to come together for anything other than a boogie

              • Ok; one (link) at a time, one example per each:

                “food production”


              • “protecting our access to water”


              • “Everyone too busy on their estates in the hills to come together for anything other than a boogie”

                Seems you’ve got your mandate cut out:
                get some of those folks on their estates in the hills to come together and support local efforts at food production, energy sources, protecting our access to water.

                ‘spam’, you’ve the perspective on what’s up and seem to know who’s who. Given that perspective and knowledge, you’ve opportunity to get those folks energized. If you can’t encourage those folks’ energetic involvement with some of those efforts linked above, perhaps you can encourage them to at least financially support those efforts.

                Give it a shot. It could be fun; probably more fun than wishing someone would do something.

                • I’ve tried and have failed. Repeatedly.

                  Southern Humboldt is a weird vortex where people who aren’t in the ‘club’ never see the inside of their neighbor’s house or hang out in any productive way. You need to be in the clique.

                  I’ve been here 34 years. Yeah, some folks out there *are* doing the permaculture/restoring oak woodland/restoration thing, but not many. If you’re not part of pot culture, you’re a persona non grata. I have my peeps, but long for another vision; it ain’t happening here.

                • Thanks for your responses. I definitely understand your feelings.

                  Things may change for the positive as commercial legalization takes hold, with regard to growers’ involvement in important local environmental issues.

                  In somewhat of a defense of the ‘weird vortex’, fear of getting busted had much to do with fomenting that spin in the Soho cannabis community.

      • Probably a Democrat

        Way to make babies and moms the center of your hate.

        • My love for the planet and the *other* life here on earth enables me to step back and see what human’s success as a specie has wrought on our fragile webs that sustain us all.

          7.4 billion humans. The petri dish is getting crowded. Monoculture in any form is ultimately destructive to the environment.

          Diversity is where it’s at.

          • From a NZ talk program a week or so ago.

            ‘Guy McPherson – Human Extinction within 10 years ‘

            I agree with McPherson’s grasp of the current state of the climate however don’t agree that humans are doomed within any imaginable frame of time. Radical solutions are inevitable.

            “Diversity is where it’s at.”

            Definitely. The coral reefs with the great amount of biodiversity aren’t currently in the same state of stress as most of the ocean’s reefs.

            • ‘Climate Change: Handmaiden to Extinction: Dr Les Kaufman (November 2015) ‘

              Les Kaufman’s a biology prof at Boston U; specialty is aquatic biodiversity. Lengthy talk that you might find interesting.
              The bit at the end is important, re: chaos.

              • Thanks, visitor, for listening.

                I love it here so very much, but it causes me intense grief to see the direction it all is going. And as someone pointed out above (not in these words), SoHum is just a microcosm of the macrocosm.

                Humans-our hubris is our Achilles Heel.

  • Does everyone know felons can vote?As long as you are off parole or felony probation you can vote. Look it up.
    Another way keeping people down

  • Look around the country, are there very many small farmers left? cotton Growers, small distilleries, small plantations of tobacco Growers, small cattle Farms, small logging operation, small Fisheries, small anything? nope it’s all owned by corporate conglomerates. Except for a few.
    The reason for this is all the regulations, only big companies that have the financial backing to come into compliance or to pay the fines are able to stay in business. But you can become a conglomerate and pay a corporate interest to watch your back. It’s like the 76 station in Garberville, John owns it but he still have to pay a fee to Subway to use their name. By the way, they are now starting to restrict people’s ability to own and buy firearms if they have a 215.

  • Smoke em if ya got em!

  • Seriously folks , how many people that applied for permits can actually produce MEDICAL GRADE cannabis ?? Seriously ?? 5% ?? Most people are getting permits to cover themselves from law enforcement and continue in the black market. They aren’t fooling anyone. So let’s just drop this facade of “legitimate cannabis business” and call a spade a spade.

  • six plants personal

    six plants personal. grow some pounds, sell it dirt cheap off the radar locally or give it away, put these bureaucrats out of business. viva the “black market”!!!

  • If a glut lowers prices, will CA taxpayers be paying these growers subsidies *not* to plant, like they do in the corn belt?

  • Sooo. isn’t all this hinging on the Atty General letter, the direction from the soon leaving President to not spend money to prosecute if state’s law have some barely defined state control over weed growing?

    No one was expecting the fed to be taken over by the kind of Fox News zombies currently appointed.

    The Holder letter I think it was called…that I believe is not law and can be rescinded at a moment’s notice.

    Who will pay for any new Fed enforcement initiative?…welfare queens, weed growing property owners, future taxes…and the next Democrat federal government, whenever that is..

    I hope I am wrong, but these are zealot’s now playing with the House’s money. I think anything is possible, again.

    CAMP, sure, why not, we’re a Blue State and it will be something that The Base No-FUNdamentalists and the deluded will applaud.

    We Cal voters are NOT Trump loyalists, Trump supporters pretty much hate anything from California and the west coast, so I expect the worst and double or triple what I already expect to be surpassed.

    The Preppers had the right idea it turns out.

    please please, Tell me I am all wrong, I hope I am, that this is all a nightmare and good cup of coffee will fix it all.

    • SMH, you’re all wrong, get a cup of coffee and calm down. There’s actually quite a few Trump supporters in California especially in the northern counties. I’m certainly one of them and I’m a lifetime Democrat, in fact third-generation Democrat who voted for Obama in 2008. Trump was probably the only presidential pick out of all of them that did not want to take more of your profit in taxes. He said time and time again that for the most part he does not want to mess with state laws. Even with one of his most controversial statements saying that he wants to overturn Roe vs. Wade that he would returned the decision making to the states after it’s been overturned. And has already stated several times he feels the same about legalized marijuana.

      By the way you people do realize that the Nazis were a left-wing socialist group right.

      Isn’t it also funny that when the proposal was made to split California into two separate states one being Jefferson, that the people starting the Movment were called right-wing extremist. But now that your political candidate did not win office left-wingers are filing paperwork to succeed the entire state from the Union. The reason Trump won it’s because people are sick of the hypocrisy. Will he do any better?only time will tell.

      • “The reason Trump won it’s because people are sick of the hypocrisy.”

        I agree: that was a big part of why he apparently – recount; possible electronic voting machine hacking; electoral college revolt – won, despite the obvious ironies.


      • you call yourself a Democrat say you voted for Obama, and you now voted for Trump??

        That is about the stupidest thing I have lately seen actually, I don’t believe that at all, sry.

        You will see and we will all see what that mistake will costs us…altho your and my votes did not count because of the EC.
        And your bullshit about nazi socialists being left wing is just so sadly wrong and specious as well..

        People making jokes about seceding and becoming part of Canada is nonsense and just babble for amusement, yet you take it seriously?
        Well, you voted for trump, so I am not surprised.

        And guess what, the Atty General sets his own agenda, Trump has little control over him and he/Sessions is well on the record saying how evil weed is. Trump’s promises obviously don’t mean shit to a tree, easily seen already.

        So if you are trying to lure investors with that bullshit you better step up your game because people aren’t that…well….maybe they are that stupid to believe Sessions won’t interfere with (disloyal) Blue States that are ALSO legal weed states…it is just too tempting a target.

  • Where is the Religious exemption?

  • The pessimist asks for a sip of the optimist’s wine.

  • Lived here my whole life and have watched the slow change until this last few years when the bubble was popped. We all knew change was inevitable but this has been pretty sad from the out of country take over and the local elders fleeing fast to everyone with there hand out for more money, it is starting to take its toll on this once beautiful community. From the amount every thing cost to make it to the point of getting your application in is only possible if you are pretty wealthy. It is obvious the small respectful growers like my parents will not be surviving in this process and the giant costco size operations will be the only ones to come out on top. I have started the permit process and at this point i feel like I am just throwing my families saving in the trash, honestly I wish I never even started. The rich will get richer and everyone els will disappear. This is and will always be my homes. There is no point in being in denial we had a good run f%&k the corporations.

    • the state requires every permit to holder pay a fee has anyone come out with what the state will charge for there questionably legal permits?
      Is the states mmj eir report Done ?

    • It’s my *home* too, and I love it here.

      But I’m sick of marijuana culture hogging out anything else possible for us to go forward as a ‘community’.

      I’m outta here too, don’t worry all you gansta dudes in your gas guzzling growdozers. No need to sneer empty retorts.

    • “It is obvious the small respectful growers like my parents will not be surviving in this process and the giant costco size operations will be the only ones to come out on top. ”

      I don’t agree.


      “Here are a few of the ways that Prop 64 (will) help small growers.

      Must be a California resident to get a license (1/2019)
      Prior cannabis convictions no an obstacle to getting licenses or work
      Eliminates mandatory “distributors” and “transporters”
      Scales fees to business size
      Prohibits “unreasonable and impracticable” regulations
      Only micro-licensees can be vertically integrated
      Regional appellation established
      **** Five year delay on large scale licenses ****
      Anti-monopoly provisions ban price fixing and redlining”

      • All that sounds great but but big money will open any door that is closed. welcome to america

        • Yes I learned first hand with accelerated logging plans Maxxam implemented. This is how the world works. Corporations and government same thing.

      • Prop 64 does nothing at all for small growers in the many North State counties that have banned medical and/or commercial cultivation.

        Counties like Shasta, Tehama, and Butte have been important producers, but are poised to shut their citizens entirely out of this opportunity.

        That’s unfair, which bothers me. But we should all be concerned about what such a policy will do to stimulate a parallel market centered in these counties. At best, we can look forward to several more years of cops-and-robbers in the valley and eastern foothills.

    • Don’t despair. If you read about what is going on in places like the Salinas valley ( google it) I think there will be a cut and run by invading growers here for cheaper land and less challenging weather and terrain. If I was one of the many carpetbagger new growers here I’d be kicking myself for not buying an abandoned 5 acre greenhouse infrastructure in a better climate than here. I think it will take a few years but I think things will return to normal here. The prices of pot? Who knows.

      • “…there will be a cut and run by invading growers here for cheaper land and less challenging weather and terrain. ”

        That’s already happening.


        “As California edges closer to legalizing recreational marijuana, growers are rushing to grab a little piece of the action, and it’s creating a land grab not seen in more than 100 years….

        Schmeitt has 18 escrows sitting on his desk at his Mountain Ranch (real estate) office.
        We’ve sold 75 or so properties to growers, and we pretty much know what you’re looking for,” Schmeitt said.
        Schmeitt says it’s going so well that he’s planning to pack up and move to Mexico….

        According to the county, if you add up the cattle industry, the wine grape growing industry, and the timber harvest, you’re talking about $27-28 million. Marijuana in Calaveras County right now is worth about $100 million.”

        • even successful cut flower producers with functioning greenhouses have to be thinking about it.
          I know a grower, a big one in the Indio watershed, he claims their aquifer is full and overflowing (amazing claim yet to be proven imo, but whatever)
          and the thought of growing weed is absolutely NOT going to happen, because he us an evangelistic born again nutbag…yet was a big pot head as a teen, go figure.

          In the past I have asked him about solar power for some of his vast acreage could be well done for solar to power much of his farm, subsidies available etc..he poo poohed it…the a couple of years later did just that and bragged to me about how he figured that all out.

          geez…so maybe he will flip on this too and grow weed, he certainly has the water, land, sun, and plenty of Mexican worker/growers some of whom probably know very well how to grow it.

  • What about those of us who want to be permitted but can’t be for reasons such as living too close to a church or a school bus stop or a list of other minor reason? I want to put out there for the record that there are plenty of people who want to be permitted but can’t be. We are being left out and it simply isn’t fair. The idea of relocating our lives and our businesses to rent out lots on other people’s land is absolutely not realistic for most of us, especially when it has to be prime ag soil. This is NOT realistic for small timers. It is absolutely realistic for people with deep pockets and political ties. Well, no surprise, this is business as usual.

    • Permits. Legal. Blah blah blah.
      It’s just a bribe.
      Trying to pull every1 out of the woods
      So they can put you in protective custody on a reservation.
      I ain’t even a damn indian!!!!!!!!!!
      You know what happens next.

  • It’s refreshing to see the mistrust in our government and the f@ck you attitude towards permitting. It really is, no sarcasm. However, some us have decided to get “legal”. I enjoy my freedom more than money. I will take a pay cut to not have to worry about the HCDTF coming down my road, cutting my plants and hauling me away and paying thousands to fight it. If you want to fight the system, go for it. I’ve made it this far and I can make it further under the new rules.

  • Once again it’s clear many of these people haven’t read the county or state ordinances, half the questions are easily answered. You don’t have to hire a consultant, read it and prepare it yourself. The planning department has been very helpful imo and the fact that they’re willing to listen and react, to understand this is new ground and treat it as such, even by saying “I don’t know” sometimes, is a positive thing. They’ll look into it and then you will know. How could they possibly train people on somethimg never done before? It’s always a bit of back and forth dealing with them anyways, weed realted or not. Do you expect those humans to remember every code? That’s absurd. I know growers aren’t used to dealing with government regulations or programs, but the building codes have been there long before your illegal buildings. Blame yourself. In fact normally you’d not only have to pay to bring your property up to code after illegal builds, they’d fine you. How much special treatment and hand holding fo you want? They’re grandfathering you in, they’re giving you first dibs. Weed growing has been easy money relative to any other crop. Why don’t you all try to grow onions or winter squash or celery. All typically take over 100 days and you’re lucky to get $1 a pound for onions or celery. Oh the poor, hopeless growers getting $4000 a pound in the 90s for a 45-60 day crop, $1500 now, maybe down to $500 in the worst case scenario people refer to post legalization. Any other farmer works 10 times harder for a fraction of a percent of the profit. Welcome to agriculture, which incidentally, is also taxed, regulated, regularily inspected, requires compliance to building and enviromental codes, licensing and particular growing practices. Prop 64 actually has multiple protections no other crop does. CA resident requirement (first 5 years), monopoly prevention including the banning of pricing product at below cost which is a tactic used by corperations to drive out small businesses all the time. Do you think raddish farmers are told how much to sell their crop for or that they have to be a resident? Calling 6 acres a mega grow is a joke, visit any corn farmer, it’s hundreds, thousands of acres or more. Again, welcome to agriculture not drug dealing. I’m sure having to be accountable and held to particular standards isn’t what people are used to but it’s not a conspiracy against you. It’s just how the world of business works and you’ve been gone so long, or never there in the first place, you think it’s personal. This industry has spun out of control here, clearly. Reign it in, it’s time.

    • It’s only a misdemeanor now. No more jail threats. I hope you have all your documentation showing all your legal sales. Thats the trick. If u can’t show that you are in trouble. Too bad there is not a legal outlet that is easy for all the people to access to sell their product. Seems like everyone is writing a check their ass can’t cash by agreeing to sell it all legally and prove it in an area that it is impossible except for the lucky few that are connected (privileged)?

      • You will be looking at 200 dollar pounds if you are lucky. In 5 years you will be looking at less. The billionaire farmers sell lettuce for a dollar a head to stay relevant. Those same farmers in salinas valley are in the game now. It’s game over for hobby growers. Thats what Steve Deangelo calls humboldt. Cuz hes growing over a million plants right now in the salinas valley and is going to make over 100 million $$$
        He made 40 million last year.
        Property values are going to drop fast as the price of weed. Thats why the big boys are not investing up here. It’s not practical to have farms in the middle of nowhere that are not accessible. Farmers like flat land with easy access to the market.
        If u don’t want to smoke everything you grow you better wise up as a community and figure out where you stand in the big picture because humboldt will be lucky to have a place at the kids table soon.

        • I totally agree.

          • There’s not even going to be a table once everyone else in other parts of California get into full production. Hope everyone has a plan B .

        • “Steve Deangelo ”

          ‘Say It Ain’t So, Steve DeAngelo’

          “Years before they started Harborside Health Center in Oakland, DeAngelo was a marijuana activist/pot dealer in Washington, DC. In fact, he was arrested for possession shortly before he left DC for the West Coast.

          I wouldn’t dredge this up if DeAngelo (or Stevie D as he’s know in cannabis circles) wasn’t such a turncoat.

          He’s made millions selling pot to medical patients in California. His mantra is “cannabis should be used for purposes of wellness.” Nice spin. Now let’s get back to reality.

          Just last year DeAngelo proposed a legalization initiative for California. When Richard Lee beat him to it with Prop 19, DeAngelo pulled back and said he’d wait for 2012. Now it appears that he’s not in favor of taxing and regulating marijuana for all uses any longer.

          To his credit, DeAngelo and his then partner Eric Steenstra founded the hemp clothing line Ecolution in the mid-’90s. Unfortunately, business didn’t go well and they soon closed up shop.

          After his arrest and the subsequent dismissal of the case, DeAngelo made his move, opening the uber-slick “WalMart of pot” in Oakland. He aimed to blow away the competition and to some extent has, raking in $20 million dollars in 2010.


          DeAngelo is ego-driven and spouts off from that perspective.
          He’s also dishing that noise as PR for his own product.
          Still get a chuckle out of him needed a bonghit so he could choose a tie to wear that day, on camera in a ‘reality’ TV show! Oh, yeah; that’s very medicinal application, for sure.

          The cachet of ‘Humboldt weed’ will never die, it will only grow stronger.

          • Have u seen his vice news interview or the salinas valley one in l.a times?

            • Saw a bit on Vice’s Weediquette, iirc.

              Thanks for mentioning the LA Times piece. Just checked out that one.
              Steve DeAngelo aka Mr. Marijuana Monopoly Wannabe. His desires mimic the railroad and oil barons of the early days of industrial age. He’s on the wrong side of consciousness evolution.

              “California in general, and the Salinas Valley in particular, is perfectly positioned to do with cannabis what it has done with many other fruits and vegetables, which is claim 50% or more of the national market,” said Steve DeAngelo”

              “DeAngelo’s FLRish Inc. formed a limited liability corporation that paid $3.4 million for 47 acres filled with several dozen greenhouses, where a horticulture company once cultivated and shaped landscaping shrubs into topiaries.
              Within months, two more greenhouse complexes nearby sold for $2 million to $3 million apiece, according to property records. ”

              “DeAngelo’s FLRish…already is turning out several hundred plants per day on the former Schubert Nursery site on Encinal Road.”

              “Jeff Brothers, CEO of FLRish, showed off a 56,000-square-foot greenhouse with 22,000 pots brimming with cannabis plants”

              “Brothers and DeAngelo foresee a day when they can offer space to small-scale growers, such as those who have been cultivating for decades in the “emerald triangle” of Humboldt, Mendocino and Trinity counties.”

              Those “small-scale” growers in the ‘triangle’ don’t need space; they’ve space already and many have been growing longer than Steve’s had his hair in braids. He’s just angling for more loot, more control and more status.

        • When are the marijuana subsidies going to kick in?

          Ha, I joke now, but when ex growers here are starving…

          A lot of the millionaire farmers you are talking about get a lot of taxpayer money/ govt subsidies, they work all the angles, the small farmer is too busy to do so.

        • “It’s not practical to have farms in the middle of nowhere that are not accessible. Farmers like flat land with easy access to the market.”

          Salinas Valley might not be able to support all of that growing. Drought’s not slacking and there’s only one water source in the valley.

          “But the verdant landscape hides long-term troubles with the region’s only water source.
          Unlike the Central Valley, which depends on snowmelt transported from faraway reservoirs, the Salinas Valley has prospered for decades relying solely on the groundwater hundreds of feet below.

          Foremost among (the concerns) is how to preserve the massive, but overdrafted, aquifer — one of the most stressed groundwater basins in the state, according to the California Department of Water Resources….”


          • If u go to salinas, you will see the light. You really have to look at the farming. I worked there. There is not a shortage of water,skills, money,or really educated farmers with p.h.d’so (not a post hole digger). Until you have been involved in ag business and toured the salinas valley, you can’t really have an assessment that’s near to reality. Next time you are in the grocery store start looking up the companies on the produce packaging labels. Once you figure out they are all from salinas area, look how rich those companies are. They could put Monsanto on welfare.

            • ” from salinas area, look how rich those companies are. ”

              Yep, that’s why DeAngelo’s set up crop shop there.
              East of Weedin’.

    • You had to have balls to grow in the 90s.

  • None of this provides Legal protection from Federal prosecution.

  • This is what happens when you overtly threaten people.
    They put you on the menu.

Leave a Reply to Marc Woods Cancel reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *