Attention Medical Cannabis Growers: The County Wants You

Humboldt County Attention cannabisHumboldt County Press release:

The County’s Cannabis Services Division will be holding workshops this Sunday (8/14) and next (8/21) for cannabis growers who have not yet registered with the County and want to learn more about the ordinance. The workshops will be held at the County Planning Department, 3015 H St, from 1-5 pm, and the cost is $150.

Staff will give an overview of the permit process, do a Q&A, and then work with attendees in small groups. Attendees will have the opportunity to ask questions about their individual sites using the County’s GIS database, and staff will provide hands on, individualized assistance to help attendees fill out and file their registration paperwork.

To reserve a spot, call the Cannabis Services hotline at 707-268-3795 or email cannabis@co.humboldt.ca.us.

Remember: the registration deadline to be considered in “good standing” with the State is August 23rd, and the deadline to apply for permits is December 31st. Don’t miss this chance to start coming into compliance before the window closes!

 

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82 comments

  • That sound you hear? The bottom dropping out of the market.. while water board annual fee (2500$) & county tax per millimeter will continue to be incurred. The county has ulterior motives and no crystal ball they basically pull these numbers for fees outa their ass!! Fuk that. Oh and squeeze me between that hard space and rock would you please?

    • Henchman Of Justice

      Ya, bout time to order a meal from Crush, outta Arcata, cuz the proggies are totally not Southern Humboldt’s political ally…….poor Arcatan’s and Eurekan’s in the Humboldt Fog just jealous of the hot and dry climate where weed grows well. What a wonder (pffft) county and city reps from the north collude to tax weed.

      Need money, tax. Need more money, tax. No more money to tax, tax yet again. You got it down.

      State strikes down “cottage label bills” by Woods and by McGuire……Healdsburgh politicians who are idiots and pulling faces with weed community.

  • Why in the world are they asking for more applications when they can’t even process the ones they have???

    At this rate it’ll be 2018 before they get them done, 8 out of 848 done so far!
    Basically applying now just puts you on a list for the cops to know you’re growing and come cut ur crop down cuz you have only applied but not received a permit.
    Not to mention the folks at the planning dept have had this dumped on them with little direction so attempting to get answers to any meaningful questions is a waste of time and kind of dangerous. If they give you bad info it’s still your problem.
    Plus the county and state are going to make it so expensive and are going to put so much tax on the producer that it’s not really worth it. Look at Washington, they made it so expensive that they only got 78 folks statewide to sign up, and their black market is raging so please all you pro permit folks tell me how having a system that no one wants to sign up for is going to make anything better?

    • AnonymousHumboldtian

      There has been 848 people who have registered their existing garden. That is not the same thing as applying for a permit. Applying for a permit is the second step in the process. The county can’t do anything until you register your existing garden, then send in your application so they can process it. Then they need to inspect your property for compliance, then they can finally issue you a permit. As long as you pass inspection of course. 8 permits are done because 7 of the 8 were issued to Alex Moore for the same property, so in reality only two people have completed the process. As long as you send in your application for a permit, and actively work to bring your site into compliance. You have nothing to worry about. And as for the planning dept, you have obviously not been yourself. I was in there last Friday, and the office was packed full of people asking questions, turning in their applications, and handing in registration forms for commercial cannabis. I had my questions answered promptly and was on my way, feeling better about the whole process. I suggest that you experience the whole process firsthand, instead of just listening to all the speculation that seems to be rife on the local community news websites. Also taxes are a new reality. Get used to it, it could be a whole lot worse. I personally think the county got it right on the taxes so far.

      • marijuana marijuana marijuana

        the new reality is our board of supervisors has unanimously outed themselves as being out of touch with the national scene that theyre taxing black market rates. ON WHAT SHOULD BE FREE MEDICINE. im sure everybody who wants marijuana in states where marijuana is strictly illegal are really happy to hear other state governments are no different than all other disinterested profiteers before them.

        • AnonymousHumboldtian

          They don’t tax personal use gardens. The tax is only for commercial growers. If you want your medicine to be free, then grow it in your back yard. Since it is grown on commercial scale, a dollar to three dollars per square foot is not outrageous whatsoever. Would you rather have people take a dump all over the environment and not pay anything that might help mitigate that? I for one will gladly pay that tax. NO MEDICINE IS FREE. There is a cost to everything, the sooner you learn that the better.

      • The only info out there is from community news sites. the process is not clear, and changes. See they’re charging $150 just to go to their “informative”meeting. Its easy to submit the form that says you are already growing ( Though notice they have NO ADDRESS printed as to where to send it!) But then the process seems to get expensive and complicated. Will anyone be able to get through it without expensive consultants and lawyers?

        • AnonymousHumboldtian

          The process is extremely clear. If you want clarification, go down to the planning dept and pick up a 2016 cannabis compliance handbook. It explains all the processes in detail. It even gives you best management practices for your grow site, and helpful links to various govt websites. The process is not that complicated. The only difficult thing that you might not be able to do yourself is a site map of the proposed cultivation area. Going through it without a consultant is possible but not advised. The biggest cost associated with going legal from my perspective is water storage. All the fees associated with the county will only really add up to about three thousand dollars, depending on what tier you fall under in regards to water quality.

          • AH, I mostly agree with you. But I find that most growers are coming in from the black market and have no idea what a medical garden that complies with California medical marijuana law is. All of the organics, water board permits, even county permits, in your file wlll not protect you from crop seizure, and felony arrests if you have not got your 215s together. Talk to a lawyer who does 215 law before you relax and figure you’ve got it covered. Most cultivators are out of jail because the Sheriff doesn’t have the manpower to investigate them, not because they are legal. If you are one of the unlucky ones that the Sheriff does get around to, having your 215 situation together can make a big difference.

            • I don’t think you need medical cards for every 100 sq ft cultivated, as long as you are doing it commercially and showing that it all ends up in a dispensary within the state. I’m not cock sure but I believe you only need a card for yourself. You are definitely right that paperwork is the key to stay out of jail.

            • @Ed Denson- 215’s only cover up to 100sq feet and your only allowed to have a maximum of 5 per parcel. (500sq feet total) so please explain how having a couple of cards is gonna save you from going to jail? lastly this is for ‘commercial’ growing, meaning your growing it to sell to dispensarys, not growing for yourself like what is supposed to be happening if you have a 215, unless you are ‘care taker’ for other people and are growing for them. Point I’m getting at is legally nobody is in compliance unless there growing no more then 500sq feet and NOT selling it, and have 5 215’s to cover it. 500 sq feet is like nothing, nobody is in compliance.

      • Henchman Of Justice

        To register for nothing later is futile by the grower, wtf.

  • When one window closes another opens. All deadlines have flexibility built in.

    • we are all stuck between a rock and hard place

      Not when the county is sued by HUMMAP, and part of the settlement is that they MUST keep all deadline in place, until a Environmental Impact Report is done on our ordinance!

      • Misguided Irrational Exuberance

        Unfortunately, HUMMAP trying to preserve the rights of small mom and pops, have doomed us to eventual insolvency with this lawsuit. While HumCo is preparing a multi year EIR, other counties are going to be permitting huge indoor and outdoor operations, gobbling up OUR market share. Thanx HUMMAP and HUM Co. for dooming us all to poverty.

        • Henchman Of Justice

          As if the County and Hummap really did not collude behind the scenes to appear combative to the general public on the outside.

          Leaders of Humboldt are habitual liars and political launderers, a main reason why Humboldt is far behind where it should now be.

          Who ya gonna trust?

          Answer: NOT A LOCAL OR AN OUTSIDER

  • marijuana marijuana marijuana

    oh that PC bandwagon. et tu, kym? medical MARIJUANA. if nothing else, it has a much better ring to it.

  • Greedy Pensioner

    We want your dope money, bring it on in. Do it for the environment, do it for the children.

  • marijuana marijuana marijuana

    the federal government could really screw everybody in a heartbeat. there is no “in compliance” as far as theyre concerned. theres only what amounts to somebodys personal discretion. with the complete automation of the federal tax system, it wouldnt even take a push of a button to make “compliant” growers lives miserable. so you reported illegal income? thats a monkey wrench in your file’s algorythm, your property and future income is at risk and theres not even a single human being involved, just the computerized process. the feds audit at least ten years back. its really something to see humboldt countys government prioritize money over compassion. theres absolutely no need to make marijuana expensive when its “legal”. none whatsoever. it only perpetuates all the problems.

    • marijuana marijuana marijuana

      speaking of, it would be great to get statements from as many chiefs of police as possible as to whether or not they would assist federal raids within their jurisdiction if the feds ask them to do so. “ask” is the wrong word. read about federal raids in state, its always coupled with assistance from local authorities. the cops really only do what theyre told to do, all the way up the power ladder.

    • AnonymousHumboldtian

      Who’s making marijuana expensive? It’s driven by supply and demand. Not the government. LOL

    • Henchman Of Justice

      Exactly,

      And with Thursday’s Federal determination to keep mj a class 1 drug with no medical benefits known scientifically, the options are only “if and when you get busted”.

      Ya see, using the county through the State as a shield won’t work against feds.

      A) Grower gets busted, has permit, feds don’t care.

      B) Grower gets busted, has NO PERMIT, feds don’t care.

      CONFIRMATION = In (A), County less likely to bust and feed ya to the feds. In (B), County gets pissed off that Grower defies permit process, so County either busts Grower directly or narcks on Grower to Feds.

      If Grower is Unpermitted, same ole, same ole.

      If Grower has a permit, will Grower sue County for protection and then will County be a “co-defendant in a federal criminal case”?

      Ya, fuck Humboldt’s leadership, fricking frauds they all are.

      No wonder Three candidates for Eureka City Council elections have dropped out, incumbents leaving and a pastor wins by default (no election needed) because no person wants the obligation to fix a city which can’t be fixed now, mostly due to social services and heavy drugs, a local injustice system, and frankly a shitty infrastructure, all decisions made by people who chose special interests over a sustainable society, sad but true.

      • You really think the feds will come straight for Humboldt county, and bypass Alaska, Colorado, Oregon, Washington state and Washington D.C. Quit being so paranoid with your little “what-if” scenarios. The govt. doesn’t have enough money to raid everyone, and their would be hell to pay if they did.

  • $150 for workshop?

    $150 to attend the meeting? Really? this is exactly what is wrong w/ this process. it’s all about taxing the crap out of the growers every step of the way. if they really wanted to have people come into compliance the workshop would be free, but since they are charging a ridiculous rate their motives are clear. the county is just trying to profit. looks like the whole state has mega grows now. going to be tough to compete w/ the whole state going richter.

    BREAKING: 10 Arrested in Connection With Illegal Marijuana Grow in Livermore
    Sheriff’s officials said more than 4,600 marijuana plants were eradicated.
    http://patch.com/california/livermore/breaking-10-arrested-connection-illegal-marijuana-grow-livermore

    LARGEST POT BUST IN SJ HISTORY
    More grows linked to massive marijuana operation; 4 more arrested, $200K seized after new raids
    http://www.recordnet.com/article/20160811/NEWS/160819906

    will we be seeing a CA Marijuana Fair in the future?

    First-ever marijuana fair opens in Oregon
    SALEM, Ore. (AP) ” People flocked to Oregon’s first-ever marijuana growers’ fair on Saturday, where a competition for best pot plants will be held with the winning entries to be displayed at the Oregon State Fair.
    http://www.vvdailypress.com/news/20160813/first-ever-marijuana-fair-opens-in-oregon

    • I agree 150$ dollars is some BS. The workshop should be free, because if you show up and are then coaxed into signing up, they will be receiving a bunch of your money ANYWAY. And I agree that it will be hard to compete once the whole state get’s in the game. the thing is, I believe humboldt county is ahead of the game on this and there might be 2 years or so to make some good legit money before the whole state is blown up like humboldt is now.

  • Pay your tax you douchebag growers, good grief you people are awful. Your parents must be very disappointed.

  • So why has no one mentioned Assemblymen Woods bill to’ excise tax’ cannabis went down in flames this week?
    It was opposed by many groups and patient rights advocates as putting unnecessary costs upon cannabis patients.

    • Medical Marijuana HAHA / This About Recreational Weed Suckers!

      I was thinking the same thing. The legislature is looking at medical mj like it is already recreational. save the heavy taxes for the rec weed.

    • AnonymousHumboldtian

      I agree the excise tax is outrageous, I’m glad it failed. The cultivation tax is fine in my opinion, but placing the cost onto consumers is ridiculous. Especially something that is supposed to be “medical”.

    • Henchman Of Justice

      HOJ did last week before Thursday, on Thursday, on Saturday and again today.

      Somebody should write Kym the news update.

  • Medical Marijuana HAHA / This About Recreational Weed Suckers!

    does anyone else see what is really going on here? do u really think this about medical marijuana? LMAO! Hell NO!! This is about the next level, Recreational Weed. All this posturing by the so called Medical Marijuana companies is really for ONE PURPOSE. To set their companies up, so they are first in line to profit off Recreational Weed. Who is going to be 1st in line to profit off the REAL PRIZE when the next elections are held? You Are Right! The True Humboldt’s & Emerald Family Farms. The Wonderwhyuhavemites Nursery and the County. This is really about lining up for the $Billions(that’s right we are talking potential Billions not millions) for the companies that already have market share. Everyone is being played. Watch what happens when weed is legalized recreationally. All the big local MJ companies will be 1st in line to profit off weed. Read the legislature. It’s been written to reward those that already have legit existing farms. This whole thing is a big scam so the rich get richer and the little farmers get left behind. A bone has been thrown w/ the Craft Farm legislation, which is good, but if u really look at what is going on u will find this has NOTHING to do w/ medical marijuana. The real race is on for Recreational Weed. The thing is 99% of u are being left behind! welcome to reality.

    • Medical Marijuana HAHA / This About Recreational Weed Suckers!

      think about this. Medical Marijuana is Non Profit. That means u can make living, but not a fortune. what will happen when weed is legalized recreationally? Do u think the medical marijuana farms will still grow medicinally or will they switch to a for profit company? Take Emerald Family Farms or True Humboldt for an example. let’s say they have 40 to 50 farms under each brand. if each farm is growing 500 to 1,000 pounds a year that = up to 100,000 pounds of weed being grown combined potentially. if they are truly non profits then where is all the weed going and what do they do w/ the extra money after the money comes flowing in since they are a non profit? who the hell knows, but one thing is certain these operations would much rather being growing for profit. I doubt there will be very many medical marijuana farmers in Humboldt by 2020. the majority will likely be in it purely for the money. this is going to be interesting to watch unfold

      • AnonymousHumboldtian

        Dispensaries are non-profit. Who said that growers are non-profit? No one would grow it if you couldn’t make money. And so what if people are jockeying for a position in the ever imminent rec market? Would you rather them sit around with their thumb up their you-know-what and just let all the opportunity just pass the county by? Get with the times it’s 2016, California is lagging behind on this issue.

        • Patriotinwillits

          Dispensaries are not exactly non-profit. If I am the owner of one, I can give myself whatever salary my business will allow. They have the same problem many charities suffer from. They are run by the greedy.

      • Henchman Of Justice

        Not to burst a bubble, but, “How do ya make a living if ya make $0 in profits?”

        Answer: Become a business, make labor wages and salaries a cost, pay yourself and other elites as much as you want to suck all profits into costs, then claim $0 profits.

        Non profit scam artists are whack jobs.

    • Lost Croat Outburst

      Um, ah, no. If you are SO worried about exploitation, vote for recreational/religious weed and grow your own. Who told you Medical weed was non-profit? What’s an eighth cost now? Used to be $38.00. That’s profit. See, once it is as legal as alcohol, the medical aspect is wrapped up in with the whole enchilada. I realize that is apparently a tough concept for you. Give yourself a few years to experience adulthood, you’ll see. Much ado about nothing. You want to DO something? VOTE. Then grow your own, hotshot.

      • Henchman Of Justice

        You’d think, but not with “labor converted to cost write-offs”.

        If gubbamint ain’t gonna allow mj businesses the same “material cost write offs against taxes owed”, then the taxes get cancelled out by labor costs…….it is all legit paperwork regarding labor schemes only.

  • marijuana marijuana marijuana

    wake up. its the year two thousand and sixteen. each and every single tax ever imposed upon us has done nothing but feed the need for even more taxes. the govt is still outspending itself, the cost of living only goes up. SO WHAT if somebody gets rich growing a plant thats ridiculously prohibited. SO WHAT if its recreational…isnt a good time great medicine? people are getting rich peddling garbage that begets garbage. no more taxes. no more fees. people need more money, people dont need more people demanding more money from them.

  • marijuana marijuana marijuana

    our supervisors get paid over $6,000 of our tax dollars every month. at $1,000 an elbow, theyre each taking home poundage every year to sit in a circle and give the thumbs up to new property and service taxes and fees etc etc. AND they just voted themselves a raise. anybody who knows anything about “the industry” knows that the money theyre demanding is based on illegal market prices AND/OR theyre literally trying to create a ridiculously and unecessarily expensive new “legit” market altogether. THATS greed, and on a government level.

    • AnonymousHumboldtian

      You cant reason with someone who doesn’t wan’t to pay taxes, but loves to reap the benefits.

      • marijuana marijuana marijuana

        am i wrong or will “growers” already have to pay all the same state and federal taxes and fees as other commercial industries? am i wrong or will the state already demand completely unique taxes and fees on “growers”? am i wrong or is the state still broke after 200 years of cumulative taxes and fees?

        you talk like “compliant growers” are going to get a free ride, but in fact theyre already going to be so heavily taxed as to guaruntee yet another great gift of medicine will cost way more than it has to for anybody and everybody who wants and needs it but, for whatever reason, cant grow it themselves, and there are literally millions of them.

        every compliant marijuana grower will already be paying state and federal taxes and fees out the ass for their operation. every compliant marijuana grower will already have to pay uniquely high taxes and fees. shame on humboldt countys representatives for not representing and instead playinb the part of another profiteer.

        • AnonymousHumboldtian

          Your wrong. Federal government isn’t going to take taxes from money made on illegal substances… yet. And you talk about cumulative taxes and fees. Marijuana is just now being taxed. Last year all the growers in Humboldt paid 0 cents per pound in taxes, and most made at least 1000 per pound CONSERVATIVELY. Just pay the damn taxes, you live in the U.S. for crying out loud.

          • marijuana marijuana marijuana

            youre wrong. the marijuana itself wont be taxed, of course. its a federal schedule 1 narcotic, adding to the perversion of humboldts government demanding such a chunk of money. ahead of time, no less. the income, however, will be reported and taxed just the same as every other business. with the exception of the additional state and local fees and taxes, which, like i said, are based on illegal market prices and/or the intention of creating a ridiculously and unecessarily expensive new “legit” market. the proposed taxes and fees are especially extortionary compared to any other industry, especially agriculture. growers are paying all the same property taxes and fees, all the same business and commercial taxes and fees, theres no excuse for our supervisors to demand even more money. they should be welcoming the business and the money theyd already get.

            we, the people, will watch our representatives spend the money and demand even more next year, like they do every year because thats what theyve done every year.

            theyre prioritizing profit over compassion, the demand is exponentially greater than the supply. state, national and global. shame on “our” government. they can afford every new little sales tax increase here, every new little service fee there…theyre comfortable with their hefty government paycheck, retirement and perks. theyre all way out of touch.

          • The federal government does demand that all illegal drug dealers pay taxes. That’s what the 280E business is all about: those selling controlled substances, including but not limited to cannabis, must pay taxes, despite the illegality of the market in federal eyes, and yet cannot take deductions like other businesses.

            • HAHAHAHAHA. Good luck with that. They wont take one red cent until it becomes legalized nationally. “we demand that all drug dealers pay taxes” that’s a knee slapper.

              • Al Capone didn’t think it was funny when they finally got him…for tax evasion…

                • AnonymousHumboldtian

                  Well they’re about to have 900 Capone’s in Humboldt county alone. The IRS would have to hire more people. It wont happen until it’s reclassified, you watch.

              • You can’t be serious! SMH! What ignorance. They don’t allow deductions, which tells me, they take they money, but you can’t have right offs.

          • Of course they will. There is actually a line on the tax form for illegally derived income. Been there since the days of the Escobar gang.

      • Benefits? Like corporate ag subsidies that poison water and splice genes so glyphosate permeates every aquifer? Not even gonna start with international policy. Those taxes?
        Ever heard of salmon creek road week, where people got out and took care of our own business/needs? I was weaned at six months. Gov’t tit can go suck it’s self dry, thanks anyway.

        • AnonymousHumboldtian

          Yeah I have heard of Salmon Creek Road. What about it? Oh yeah don’t get me started about benefits. Next time the road slides out, don’t ask the county to come out and fix it for you. Next time someone robs you, don’t come whining to the sheriff to find your weed. People like you just want to make money and give absolutely nothing back to the county. Bunch of leeches. The LEAST you can do is pay your fair share of taxes.

          • marijuana marijuana marijuana

            tell us how the tax is fair compared to ANY other tax? will or will not the state already demand a uniquely high tax? will or will not “cannabusinesses” or whatever you want to call them already be paying all the standard business and commercial taxes? arent there many who already do?

            pull your head out of your ass and listen to whats being said.

            • AnonymousHumboldtian

              How is a dollar per square foot a uniquely high tax? You will say anything.

              • marijuana marijuana marijuana

                its a completely unique and ADDITIONAL tax! thats in addition to even more unique and additional permits and fees! all the income will already be taxed! all the property, business, commercial, environmental etc taxes and fees will already be imposed! many are already paying them! you are aware people are sitting in prison right now over marijuana, right? you wont pull the bananas out of your ears! its also in addition to the state doing the same thing! what do you do for a living? tell us please so we can hypothesize a similar “tax” unto you that i know you would be outraged over.

        • Lost Croat Outburst

          Yeah, I’ve also heard of Salmon Creek Road and if a raging fire threatens YOUR homes, land, and lives like in Lake County right NOW, you’ll ditch your Republican-Ayn-Rand, libertarian insanity and be begging and praying for government help to save your ass(es). Same for The Big ‘Quake and anything else not foreseeable. So, you built the whole road yourself? How about 101? Right, you built your whole life yourself from the clothes on your back, public school, just completely buck-naked in the dirt, on up. A common arrogant fantasy but it’s delusional bullshit.

      • Lost Croat Outburst

        Exactly right. This was intended for Humboldtian’s comment that: you can’t argue with people who want to benefit from taxes, but don’t want to pay them. Freeloaders.

        • My point was that not everyone wants or needs to be told what is in their best interest. If everyone pitched in to take care of infrastructure, there would be no need for taxes to be collected and distrubuyed by an elite overseer class. I know that is a complete fantasy!

      • Henchman Of Justice

        Yard sales too anointed one!

      • Did you witness the evolution of the Pay it Forward Humboldt movement? People want to contribute.. Maybe not to and MWRAPS, Tomahawks, Apaches, and New Government Agencies!.. How about all the money go to mental health? That might help the county.
        Redwoods Rural, Kmud, Mateel, Beginnings.. Sohum isn’t exactly what is was when most of these are formed, but certainly can be. The same minded folks that saved the Headwaters still abound. People want to help. It just plain feels good.

  • I would like to take this moment to thank CCV-H. Thanks for setting us all up to register and enter the regulatory and taxed landscape and to compete against the large mega-growers that you represented. Thanks for pushing the statewide agenda where Ted Simpkins and others now must transport our product and we cannot. Thanks for assuring small growers that “you’ll be fine” as you suckered them in for their support. Thanks for wining and dining our supervisors to get their support for large grow scenes that will bury the mom n pops. Thanks for setting up that processing facility at the golf course in Willow Creek where you can throw heady gala events and conduct tours for out-of-the-area investors to consider investing/cannabilizing our scene. And thanks especially for promoting yourselves as some kind of heroes and experts and suckering the media into believing that and promoting your agenda! Congratulation!! You did it!! Many will suffer but you will be fine.

  • Grow your own. No tax. No problem

    • marijuana marijuana marijuana

      of course! viva! the problem is the tens of millions of people who, for whatever reason, cant and wont.

      • Then grow enough to give some away.
        That is what I do.

        • marijuana marijuana marijuana

          i hope more people do! i want to see the complete decriminalization of marijuana. id smile to see it growing wild. the reality is people are being arrested just for having it right this second. even our local government wants a piece of the action instead. free the weed!

  • I’m sorry, but every time I hear “California Water Board” I think, “you’ll be waterboarded if you don’t comply – California style!” (that means they’ve worked out methods of waterboarding that only use a half a cup of water ;^p)

  • So many good friends were/are very gung-ho about this MMSRA..
    Why?
    The folks who once put guns to my head now just wanna tax me to operate. Sounds like a mafia story..
    And what’s up with the vending end of this equation? You know who the growers are.. Where’s the outlets/dispensaries in this county?
    The only difference is the state is behind this one, unlike Tom Allmans plan. Like in CO and DC and OR.. Seems when the states involved the Feds lay back…???

  • Where’s Anne Landers or Dan Savage?
    -HIM
    (Humboldtarian in Malaise)

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