Marijuana Use Carries Possible Link to Schizophrenia

An article in Live Science explores the links between marijuana and schizophrenia.  It offers the following

Marijuana abuse is common among sufferers of schizophrenia, the researchers say. In fact, other recent work has shown that the psychoactive ingredient of marijuana can induce some symptoms of schizophrenia in healthy volunteers, according to Matt Jones, a study researcher at the University of Bristol’s School of Physiology and Pharmacology. [Marijuana Worsens Schizophrenia]

(I want to state again that ignoring the possible bad effects of marijuana is just as foolish as the government ignoring the possible good effects.  If you use, read and be aware of some of the possible side effects.)

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113 comments

  • This has to be THEE (not just “the”) worst pro-marijuana blog I’ve ever seen. Shoot, this blog fronts so much ready to go anti-marijuana propaganda with no critical analysis whatsoever, it might as well be about scare tactics and pseudo-science in the world of modern day witch hunts and prohibition.

  • Hi Kym,
    Some quick observations: note that the study you mentioned here had a total of 100 people in it. That hardly makes it imperically correct. Also, look at who conducted the study and the methodology used.
    Having said that, it only makes sense that people with problems like schizophrenia would have issues with pot. That’s almost a no-brainer.
    The premise that smoking pot, or doing drugs and alcohol makes things worse for people with certain conditions, has been repeatedly proved. Old news.
    Does smoking pot make you a schizophrenic? I’ve yet to see a study that proves that.

  • Hi Kym,
    Some quick observations: note that the study you mentioned here had a total of 100 people in it. That hardly makes it imperically correct. Also, look at who conducted the study and the methodology used.
    Having said that, it only makes sense that people with problems like schizophrenia would have issues with pot. That’s almost a no-brainer.
    The premise that smoking pot, or doing drugs and alcohol makes things worse for people with certain conditions, has been repeatedly proved. Old news.
    Does smoking pot make you a schizophrenic? I’ve yet to see a study that proves that.

  • There is no question that I have had several friends over the years for whom smoking pot is not good mentally. Some literally can’t shut up in a mentally disorderly kind of way, some drastically change personalities, and two have wound up in mental institutions. However, in every instance, the person knew they should stop and could have stopped and has stopped using pot. I would say it’s about 1 in 500 smokers I’ve met over the decades. But, if we compare it to liquor or cigarettes, the affects are still not even comparable to the damage: car wrecks and stolen and crippled lives, early death, beaten families, friends and strangers and so on for millions, as opposed to a few going a bit nuts and eventually coming back down to Earth.

    So is the point that pot should remain illegal or that some warning ought to be given as it is with many pharmaceutical drugs that cause depression and even homicidal/suicidal tendencies, along with inducing mental disorders? Obviously, the latter would be the best route to remain consistent.

    In the end, the use of pot is a civil and equal rights issue and I’m waiting for someone to file a 14th amendment lawsuit–equal protection under the law for certain classes of people (in this case pot smokers, or hippies, or African Americans or musicians).

    When we can finally study the herb out of the closet, then we can truly understand all th affects and be much happier and healthier for it.

  • There is no question that I have had several friends over the years for whom smoking pot is not good mentally. Some literally can’t shut up in a mentally disorderly kind of way, some drastically change personalities, and two have wound up in mental institutions. However, in every instance, the person knew they should stop and could have stopped and has stopped using pot. I would say it’s about 1 in 500 smokers I’ve met over the decades. But, if we compare it to liquor or cigarettes, the affects are still not even comparable to the damage: car wrecks and stolen and crippled lives, early death, beaten families, friends and strangers and so on for millions, as opposed to a few going a bit nuts and eventually coming back down to Earth.

    So is the point that pot should remain illegal or that some warning ought to be given as it is with many pharmaceutical drugs that cause depression and even homicidal/suicidal tendencies, along with inducing mental disorders? Obviously, the latter would be the best route to remain consistent.

    In the end, the use of pot is a civil and equal rights issue and I’m waiting for someone to file a 14th amendment lawsuit–equal protection under the law for certain classes of people (in this case pot smokers, or hippies, or African Americans or musicians).

    When we can finally study the herb out of the closet, then we can truly understand all th affects and be much happier and healthier for it.

  • What a meaningful discussion about bullshit.

  • What a meaningful discussion about bullshit.

  • The biggest affect that is noticable to most everyong is a rabid desire to defend of marijauna use.

    This is a chicken or the egg story. Fact is that 50% of schizophrenics have a life-long association with drug abuse. Chicken or egg?

    Delusional behavior is a symtom, does that mean that the 80% of the people in the world that believe in God are crazy? At some point we will all have to accept a certain amount of insanity in those around us. Personally I depent on “The Hammer test”. ( If you can hit it with a hammer, it is real.)

  • The biggest affect that is noticable to most everyong is a rabid desire to defend of marijauna use.

    This is a chicken or the egg story. Fact is that 50% of schizophrenics have a life-long association with drug abuse. Chicken or egg?

    Delusional behavior is a symtom, does that mean that the 80% of the people in the world that believe in God are crazy? At some point we will all have to accept a certain amount of insanity in those around us. Personally I depent on “The Hammer test”. ( If you can hit it with a hammer, it is real.)

  • WOW! This as well? Everyday I learn something new about this evil plant. Did you know that smoking marijuanna leads to the devil, the apocalypse, all ills of mankind, economic depression, global warming, deforestation, solar flares, class 5 hurricanes, combined with comets causes crop failures and drought, the fall of Rome, plus weed caused all life on Mars to become extinct.
    Who knew it was this bad?

  • WOW! This as well? Everyday I learn something new about this evil plant. Did you know that smoking marijuanna leads to the devil, the apocalypse, all ills of mankind, economic depression, global warming, deforestation, solar flares, class 5 hurricanes, combined with comets causes crop failures and drought, the fall of Rome, plus weed caused all life on Mars to become extinct.
    Who knew it was this bad?

  • Shizophrenia, according to Wicipedia:
    A person diagnosed with schizophrenia may experience hallucinations (most reported are hearing voices), delusions (often bizarre or persecutory in nature), and disorganized thinking and speech. The latter may range from loss of train of thought, to sentences only loosely connected in meaning, to incoherence known as word salad in severe cases. Social withdrawal, sloppiness of dress and hygiene, and loss of motivation and judgment are all common in schizophrenia. There is often an observable pattern of emotional difficulty, for example lack of responsiveness. Impairment in social cognition is associated with schizophrenia, as are symptoms of paranoia; social isolation commonly occurs.

  • Shizophrenia, according to Wicipedia:
    A person diagnosed with schizophrenia may experience hallucinations (most reported are hearing voices), delusions (often bizarre or persecutory in nature), and disorganized thinking and speech. The latter may range from loss of train of thought, to sentences only loosely connected in meaning, to incoherence known as word salad in severe cases. Social withdrawal, sloppiness of dress and hygiene, and loss of motivation and judgment are all common in schizophrenia. There is often an observable pattern of emotional difficulty, for example lack of responsiveness. Impairment in social cognition is associated with schizophrenia, as are symptoms of paranoia; social isolation commonly occurs.

  • It would be good to know the conditions of the original study that this article comes from. I doubt it was a double-blind, etc. Sounds like a lot of conjecture. I don’t mind looking at both sides of an issue, I just like when people quote studies they give reference to the study and the study identifies itself in terms of its officialness and believability.

  • It would be good to know the conditions of the original study that this article comes from. I doubt it was a double-blind, etc. Sounds like a lot of conjecture. I don’t mind looking at both sides of an issue, I just like when people quote studies they give reference to the study and the study identifies itself in terms of its officialness and believability.

  • Honestly folks, anyone who has been around longer than a couple of decades and is familiar with the group, knows that continual marijuana use is linked to mental disorders. It may not be “the thing” that sets it off, but in combination with the struggle and strife of life that all humanity is subject too, it contributes to the mental disorders. All of us can see it without a control group or scientific study. Let’s be honest with ourselves. Denial is the first symptom of an addict.

  • Honestly folks, anyone who has been around longer than a couple of decades and is familiar with the group, knows that continual marijuana use is linked to mental disorders. It may not be “the thing” that sets it off, but in combination with the struggle and strife of life that all humanity is subject too, it contributes to the mental disorders. All of us can see it without a control group or scientific study. Let’s be honest with ourselves. Denial is the first symptom of an addict.

  • If you read the article Kym links, you’ll quickly discover two possibly crucial facts:
    1) the study the article is actually about involved rats;
    2) these rats didn’t smoke doobies, they were injected with CP55940, which according to the news article “mimics the effect of the psychoactive ingredient in marijuana.”

    It was not a study with human subjects and marijuana.

    Read the abstract:

    http://www.jneurosci.org/content/31/43/15560.abstract?sid=69d44a14-011e-4c61-8729-fbcef227d28e

  • If you read the article Kym links, you’ll quickly discover two possibly crucial facts:
    1) the study the article is actually about involved rats;
    2) these rats didn’t smoke doobies, they were injected with CP55940, which according to the news article “mimics the effect of the psychoactive ingredient in marijuana.”

    It was not a study with human subjects and marijuana.

    Read the abstract:

    http://www.jneurosci.org/content/31/43/15560.abstract?sid=69d44a14-011e-4c61-8729-fbcef227d28e

  • Hey! Radley Balko just posted a true news item to his blog about the bad effects of marijuana. How can you not believe this?
    http://www.theagitator.com/2011/10/27/reefer-madness/

  • Hey! Radley Balko just posted a true news item to his blog about the bad effects of marijuana. How can you not believe this?
    http://www.theagitator.com/2011/10/27/reefer-madness/

  • This study was well proven by the Bassler case in that he had an obvious case of cannabis induced psychosis which was continuously being used by him to degrade his mental condition with constant smoking of cannabis which continued while he was killing people and shooting at law enf. This link is real and is reality.
    This study was released during the incident.

  • This study was well proven by the Bassler case in that he had an obvious case of cannabis induced psychosis which was continuously being used by him to degrade his mental condition with constant smoking of cannabis which continued while he was killing people and shooting at law enf. This link is real and is reality.
    This study was released during the incident.

  • I have had the misfortune of having a relative with this condition and it takes very specific medication to control. Why someone would want to give someone with this illness anything other than proper anti-schiz medicine is beyond me.

  • I have had the misfortune of having a relative with this condition and it takes very specific medication to control. Why someone would want to give someone with this illness anything other than proper anti-schiz medicine is beyond me.

  • The biggest affect that is noticable to most everyong is a rabid desire to defend of marijauna use.

    Very interesting, This is an important topic and one very close to my heart. And lungs. One which i have had a lot of experience with and whose correct understanding of has a powerful affect on the community. And i can say confidentially, from personal history, that the marijuana user, like the schizophrenic, has difficulty distinguishing certain similar affects of similar stimuli which have effected their mind.

    And i can prove this to you due to my position and interactions within the community. I have been allowed to see first-handedly the affect that mauijuana has on the mind of those effected by it. And how that affect is approximate to the mental afflictions that cause schizophrenia to infect the personality and to effect behavior. And, also, i have often noticed the affect that pot has upon myself, and how its stimulus effects the brain during usage giving the thought a noticeably recognizable effect. And from this i concur that the findings in the study are true concerning the affects experienced when the brain-waves move across the frontal cortex and effect the mind —i’ve felt this myself.

    What I know from my own significant experience with marijuana usage and its affects is that these findings bare some true insights into the effected personality and it’s affect on the community. My conclusion is that i think that the affectiveness of these and other scientific studies, especially their findings on behavior, and how behavior can effect the community, is a powerful forward step in guiding our perceptions towards a clarity, and discernability, A preciseness of observation which is able to distinguish subtle differences in linguistic correlations and which can inflict a change in how we perceive the affects of schizophrenia, and pot smoking, and their afteraffects on the community.

    The tendency that i’ve experienced myself, after smoking some pot, is that it effects the mind in a way that causes one’s thought processes to be afflicted in a manner that affects change. An occurrence that many of us recognize as “being stoned”, And along with experiencing how pot effects my own mind, i have noticed that it has the same affect on some schizophrenics. Including how memory loss effects recall. And i have seen, after the close observation of many many marijuana smokers, that among the regular users who smoke pot daily, both schizophrenic and not, we can conclude most definitely, that the greater THC in certain strains affects the brain. And it can sometimes induce a disfynctional personally. This is a study that affects real change.

    In conclusion, i now believe that the reason for the distinguishable affect that THC has upon the mind of one who is involved in heavy marijuana usage, and the reason it effects the brain of the schizophrenic, is due to the affect of marijuana and/or schizophrenia upon the brain. Which, of course, effects group consciousness. Further causing individual personalities to be infected by being unable to operate through established social structures, as observed when injecting marijuana into rats in a maze. This leads to the confusion within the defected mind of the subject.

    And it leads me to the conclusion that the infected brain of the schizophrenic that leads the personality to effect a position that a scientific affect of pot on humans has been discovered via its scientific studies, studies which have been very affective in showing the affects of marijuana on the mind, as seen by the affects that the drug has on rat’s brains, effecting their choices, like which direction to turn in the maze, can only prove to the thinking mind that these rats, having been scientifically observed, are seen to have contributed to affecting real change. And these humans, having ingested marijuana, have also seriously affected change by allowing their minds to be effected by a marijuana confection, and the affects of that. And they have concurrently effected our culture … It’s something to think about next time you fire one up.

    • “And it leads me to the conclusion that the infected brain of the schizophrenic that leads the personality to effect a position that a scientific affect of pot on humans has been discovered via its scientific studies, studies which have been very affective in showing the affects of marijuana on the mind, as seen by the affects that the drug has on rat’s brains, effecting their choices, like which direction to turn in the maze, can only prove to the thinking mind that these rats, having been scientifically observed, are seen to have contributed to affecting real change.”

      ^^ run on sentence of the month. Scientifically speaking, you’re wrong. The scientific study of real life occuring all around you all the time since forever proves marijuana is exponentially more of a boon than a bust. Smoke a bowl and think about it, scientifically.

      The only reason for this thread’s existence is what’s refered to in the scientific community as “a slow news day”. It’s top notch grade A+ baloney and everybody knows it.

  • The biggest affect that is noticable to most everyong is a rabid desire to defend of marijauna use.

    Very interesting, This is an important topic and one very close to my heart. And lungs. One which i have had a lot of experience with and whose correct understanding of has a powerful affect on the community. And i can say confidentially, from personal history, that the marijuana user, like the schizophrenic, has difficulty distinguishing certain similar affects of similar stimuli which have effected their mind.

    And i can prove this to you due to my position and interactions within the community. I have been allowed to see first-handedly the affect that mauijuana has on the mind of those effected by it. And how that affect is approximate to the mental afflictions that cause schizophrenia to infect the personality and to effect behavior. And, also, i have often noticed the affect that pot has upon myself, and how its stimulus effects the brain during usage giving the thought a noticeably recognizable effect. And from this i concur that the findings in the study are true concerning the affects experienced when the brain-waves move across the frontal cortex and effect the mind —i’ve felt this myself.

    What I know from my own significant experience with marijuana usage and its affects is that these findings bare some true insights into the effected personality and it’s affect on the community. My conclusion is that i think that the affectiveness of these and other scientific studies, especially their findings on behavior, and how behavior can effect the community, is a powerful forward step in guiding our perceptions towards a clarity, and discernability, A preciseness of observation which is able to distinguish subtle differences in linguistic correlations and which can inflict a change in how we perceive the affects of schizophrenia, and pot smoking, and their afteraffects on the community.

    The tendency that i’ve experienced myself, after smoking some pot, is that it effects the mind in a way that causes one’s thought processes to be afflicted in a manner that affects change. An occurrence that many of us recognize as “being stoned”, And along with experiencing how pot effects my own mind, i have noticed that it has the same affect on some schizophrenics. Including how memory loss effects recall. And i have seen, after the close observation of many many marijuana smokers, that among the regular users who smoke pot daily, both schizophrenic and not, we can conclude most definitely, that the greater THC in certain strains affects the brain. And it can sometimes induce a disfynctional personally. This is a study that affects real change.

    In conclusion, i now believe that the reason for the distinguishable affect that THC has upon the mind of one who is involved in heavy marijuana usage, and the reason it effects the brain of the schizophrenic, is due to the affect of marijuana and/or schizophrenia upon the brain. Which, of course, effects group consciousness. Further causing individual personalities to be infected by being unable to operate through established social structures, as observed when injecting marijuana into rats in a maze. This leads to the confusion within the defected mind of the subject.

    And it leads me to the conclusion that the infected brain of the schizophrenic that leads the personality to effect a position that a scientific affect of pot on humans has been discovered via its scientific studies, studies which have been very affective in showing the affects of marijuana on the mind, as seen by the affects that the drug has on rat’s brains, effecting their choices, like which direction to turn in the maze, can only prove to the thinking mind that these rats, having been scientifically observed, are seen to have contributed to affecting real change. And these humans, having ingested marijuana, have also seriously affected change by allowing their minds to be effected by a marijuana confection, and the affects of that. And they have concurrently effected our culture … It’s something to think about next time you fire one up.

    • “And it leads me to the conclusion that the infected brain of the schizophrenic that leads the personality to effect a position that a scientific affect of pot on humans has been discovered via its scientific studies, studies which have been very affective in showing the affects of marijuana on the mind, as seen by the affects that the drug has on rat’s brains, effecting their choices, like which direction to turn in the maze, can only prove to the thinking mind that these rats, having been scientifically observed, are seen to have contributed to affecting real change.”

      ^^ run on sentence of the month. Scientifically speaking, you’re wrong. The scientific study of real life occuring all around you all the time since forever proves marijuana is exponentially more of a boon than a bust. Smoke a bowl and think about it, scientifically.

      The only reason for this thread’s existence is what’s refered to in the scientific community as “a slow news day”. It’s top notch grade A+ baloney and everybody knows it.

  • sorry, that should be, effects the brain.

    • affect (verb): to cause an impact upon (something)
      effect (noun): the result of some cause

      There is a noun form of affect that is a psychological term referring to display of emotion; also, there is a verb form of effect that means to cause, as in “effect change.”

      • Mathew, thank you for your thoughts. I just hope that you realize that nobody is prefect here. Except for maybe Kym.

        • How bad would it *ffect you if I spelled *ffect wrong? If I used the word *ffect incorrectly in a sentence would it take away from the meaning of my words? I think that the people that insist upon the correct usage of the word *ffect are being Affectatious. But alas, that is not even a word…

          • Ernie, i agree that the context of a paragraph trumps the meaning of one word. And i know that it’s a superficial concern, but i notice that you make the same “slip up” over and over again, week after week. I just think that it can be irritating in its sloppiness, that’s all. Kind of like an illkempt (pardon the pun Kym) street person that you have to step over on the sidewalk every morning to reach your destination. You still get to the store, but can’t a person make a little effort to learn where to place themselves? Or how to use their words?

            With me it’s a different thing, totally. Suzy’s anagrammatical errors are often microcosms of more substantive topics of invention, where the creative misuse of words having coincidental similarities in phonetics and/or spelling can open doors to unseen congruences of meaning. And where the roll that form and content plays can be a percussion instrument obtained from the bakery down the block. (Drum roll!!). Put your spare change in the hat, we need more food to play on.

  • sorry, that should be, effects the brain.

    • affect (verb): to cause an impact upon (something)
      effect (noun): the result of some cause

      There is a noun form of affect that is a psychological term referring to display of emotion; also, there is a verb form of effect that means to cause, as in “effect change.”

      • Mathew, thank you for your thoughts. I just hope that you realize that nobody is prefect here. Except for maybe Kym.

        • How bad would it *ffect you if I spelled *ffect wrong? If I used the word *ffect incorrectly in a sentence would it take away from the meaning of my words? I think that the people that insist upon the correct usage of the word *ffect are being Affectatious. But alas, that is not even a word…

          • Ernie, i agree that the context of a paragraph trumps the meaning of one word. And i know that it’s a superficial concern, but i notice that you make the same “slip up” over and over again, week after week. I just think that it can be irritating in its sloppiness, that’s all. Kind of like an illkempt (pardon the pun Kym) street person that you have to step over on the sidewalk every morning to reach your destination. You still get to the store, but can’t a person make a little effort to learn where to place themselves? Or how to use their words?

            With me it’s a different thing, totally. Suzy’s anagrammatical errors are often microcosms of more substantive topics of invention, where the creative misuse of words having coincidental similarities in phonetics and/or spelling can open doors to unseen congruences of meaning. And where the roll that form and content plays can be a percussion instrument obtained from the bakery down the block. (Drum roll!!). Put your spare change in the hat, we need more food to play on.

  • Thanks Suzy. You have deeply affected me, and have had a serious effect upon the way I view Marijuana.

    I feel compelled to give my views on alcohol. One drink and I’m smarter, sometimes I get so smart that I can’t stand up. But, the next day I’m fine. That MJ stuff is cumulative, and takes weeks to disappear. That’s why I fear trying it.

  • Different strokes for different folks-again should folks be in jail-nice reads, as seeming a usual-(okay some of the entities in me have other views-so it be nice to smoke & chill)

  • Different strokes for different folks-again should folks be in jail-nice reads, as seeming a usual-(okay some of the entities in me have other views-so it be nice to smoke & chill)

  • I know some folk view marijuana as a sacred herb that can never harm anyone and heals everything from sore nipples to halitosis but for me, its just a simple plant. Sometimes its effects can be healthful. I particularly note its helpfulness in some cancer and MS and also as an appetite help. I think just as a source of pleasure it is valuable. And I find the government’s war against it deplorable and a waste of time and money.

    But I write about marijuana. If I only write about the studies that come out pointing out marijuana’s good qualities, then I’m not being impartial. Sadly, I must admit to science not being my strong suit. To me, a study published in the British Journal of Psychiatry would seem worth paying attention to.

    Matthew, your points are excellent. Thank you. The third link points to a study on humans. What do you think about that one?

    I was really interested in this line:
    “Oddly enough, some evidence suggests that a second marijuana component called cannabidiol actually has antipsychotic effects. D’Souza said he and other researchers are testing whether administering cannabidiol by itself can alleviate psychotic symptoms.” My admittedly unscientific belief is that when THC is encouraged in the plant to the exclusion of other cannabinoids (particularly CBD) that this can have a harmful effect.

    • Kym, I think you’re referring to the study reported in the article http://www.livescience.com/10700-marijuana-worsens-schizophrenia.html. I really don’t know what to say about that, although I’d look closely at the way symptoms were measured to reach those conclusions.

      The THC/CBD issue is fascinating. While there are certainly things to learn about how these two cannabinoids are related and how they modify each other’s functioning, the internet chatter is way ahead of the science on this one.

      In fact, some people within the “medical community” are now using this issue to try and distinguish recreational and medical use, claiming that high CBD strains are medical, they don’t get you high, etc. This thinking is also used by reefer madness folks, especially in Europe, to try and convince old hippies that they can have a double standard, and should do so, since the “Skunk” now is so high in THC and so low in CBD, it’s gonna make your kids crazy! Meanwhile, prescription Marinol is pure THC in sesame oil, and I don’t hear of lots of people getting psychotic from it. (Although one of the reported reasons for favoring whole-plant cannabis over Marinol is that it can be so strong in ways people find unpleasant.)

      I wish we could trust the science headlines we see. But NIDA and other agencies don’t tend to fund studies looking at therapeutics of cannabis, they tend to favor studies that aim to support current policy. It makes it tough for the layperson to see past dramatic headlines and critically evaluate the information.

      I still think our best source of knowledge is local and based on experience. No one I know has had anything close to the negative impact on their life from using cannabis that can come from induction into the criminal justice system.

  • I know some folk view marijuana as a sacred herb that can never harm anyone and heals everything from sore nipples to halitosis but for me, its just a simple plant. Sometimes its effects can be healthful. I particularly note its helpfulness in some cancer and MS and also as an appetite help. I think just as a source of pleasure it is valuable. And I find the government’s war against it deplorable and a waste of time and money.

    But I write about marijuana. If I only write about the studies that come out pointing out marijuana’s good qualities, then I’m not being impartial. Sadly, I must admit to science not being my strong suit. To me, a study published in the British Journal of Psychiatry would seem worth paying attention to.

    Matthew, your points are excellent. Thank you. The third link points to a study on humans. What do you think about that one?

    I was really interested in this line:
    “Oddly enough, some evidence suggests that a second marijuana component called cannabidiol actually has antipsychotic effects. D’Souza said he and other researchers are testing whether administering cannabidiol by itself can alleviate psychotic symptoms.” My admittedly unscientific belief is that when THC is encouraged in the plant to the exclusion of other cannabinoids (particularly CBD) that this can have a harmful effect.

    • Kym, I think you’re referring to the study reported in the article http://www.livescience.com/10700-marijuana-worsens-schizophrenia.html. I really don’t know what to say about that, although I’d look closely at the way symptoms were measured to reach those conclusions.

      The THC/CBD issue is fascinating. While there are certainly things to learn about how these two cannabinoids are related and how they modify each other’s functioning, the internet chatter is way ahead of the science on this one.

      In fact, some people within the “medical community” are now using this issue to try and distinguish recreational and medical use, claiming that high CBD strains are medical, they don’t get you high, etc. This thinking is also used by reefer madness folks, especially in Europe, to try and convince old hippies that they can have a double standard, and should do so, since the “Skunk” now is so high in THC and so low in CBD, it’s gonna make your kids crazy! Meanwhile, prescription Marinol is pure THC in sesame oil, and I don’t hear of lots of people getting psychotic from it. (Although one of the reported reasons for favoring whole-plant cannabis over Marinol is that it can be so strong in ways people find unpleasant.)

      I wish we could trust the science headlines we see. But NIDA and other agencies don’t tend to fund studies looking at therapeutics of cannabis, they tend to favor studies that aim to support current policy. It makes it tough for the layperson to see past dramatic headlines and critically evaluate the information.

      I still think our best source of knowledge is local and based on experience. No one I know has had anything close to the negative impact on their life from using cannabis that can come from induction into the criminal justice system.

  • EP.. it remains in you system for up to 14 days but not at a level which alters consciousness. Dr. Mark and I had some great conversations about the use of alcohol v pot. Try a pipe load.

    Everything in moderation, including pot.

  • EP.. it remains in you system for up to 14 days but not at a level which alters consciousness. Dr. Mark and I had some great conversations about the use of alcohol v pot. Try a pipe load.

    Everything in moderation, including pot.

  • Not new, started in 1960s

    1974

    Percentage of schizophrenia cases among non-marijuana users: .5–1%

    Percentage of schizophrenia cases among marijuana users: .5–1%

    • If pot causes increased rates of schizophrenia, why has there not been an epidemic of the disease since the 1960s, when cannabis use rates skyrocketed?

  • Not new, started in 1960s

    1974

    Percentage of schizophrenia cases among non-marijuana users: .5–1%

    Percentage of schizophrenia cases among marijuana users: .5–1%

    • If pot causes increased rates of schizophrenia, why has there not been an epidemic of the disease since the 1960s, when cannabis use rates skyrocketed?

  • What a horrible life it must be for anyone who has never gone crazy.

  • What a horrible life it must be for anyone who has never gone crazy.

  • Ernie, There are enough cannabis users here to give you a well rounded view of the mid-term affects and for the scientists among us, conduct a study on humans already taking it rather than rats.

    While no one is sitting around waiting for you to try some, I can assure you that it is not for everyone. I’ve turned a few “older” (nothing personal) folks on who have never tried it and had mixed reactions– loved it or got a bit paranoid or better yet, no reaction at all! And there are many factors, like “set and setting” as Terrence McKenna (sp?) would say. If you are with a supportive person or not, a beautiful environment or not, a good time in your life or not can have a great deal to do with your experience, along with your personal body chemistry (though I’m having a hard time on the visual with that!).

    Many don’t get high until the third time. Others right away. I doubt you’d have long term effects (though I’m not a doctor nor do I play one on TV) but if you’re curious, I know where you can get some 🙂

    But your open mindedness and libertarian acceptance of the diversity of your own community is appreciated.

  • Ernie, There are enough cannabis users here to give you a well rounded view of the mid-term affects and for the scientists among us, conduct a study on humans already taking it rather than rats.

    While no one is sitting around waiting for you to try some, I can assure you that it is not for everyone. I’ve turned a few “older” (nothing personal) folks on who have never tried it and had mixed reactions– loved it or got a bit paranoid or better yet, no reaction at all! And there are many factors, like “set and setting” as Terrence McKenna (sp?) would say. If you are with a supportive person or not, a beautiful environment or not, a good time in your life or not can have a great deal to do with your experience, along with your personal body chemistry (though I’m having a hard time on the visual with that!).

    Many don’t get high until the third time. Others right away. I doubt you’d have long term effects (though I’m not a doctor nor do I play one on TV) but if you’re curious, I know where you can get some 🙂

    But your open mindedness and libertarian acceptance of the diversity of your own community is appreciated.

  • I try to refrain but it’s so hard. I’ve gotta laugh when people say those ridiculous things like “denial is the first sign of addiction” or “… the biggest desire… is to defend marijuana use…” Too funny! Wonderful Catch-22, to set up a rationale in which denying something means you must be guilty of it. “If someone denies being a closet racist, then they must be a closet racist. If they deny torturing small animals, why they must be animal torturers. If they say they are the 99%, it’s a sure sign they are the 1%.” Pretty cynical!

    “When they doth protest too much, they’re surely guilty.” “Who smelt it, dealt it!”

    So i say, i smoke herb, and i am not addicted to it. Must be a lie, eh? Just like saying, I eat toast for breakfast, but am not addicted to it. Ah, but try taking it away and watch me!

    On a more serious note, i agree with Suzy Blah Blah, as a cannabis user, that some people’s brains are affected in subtle and (long-term) not-so-subtle ways, often resembling or exacerbating mental illness. Have seen and experienced it myself, in myself, and in others close to me.

    As many have pointed out, that’s completely beside the point of whether or not it should be anyone’s right to do it. I think we should be allowed to make our own choices, and when our behavior gets out of hand, we need to be reminded, corrected, or eventually, restrained… but that tiny percent (esp. compared to those abusing other, legal, substances) of people experiencing destructive symptoms does not make it right to deny the vast majority of the right to choose. This point has been made many times.

    But my point is this: in agreeing that some of the signs of schizophrenia are similar to those of being very stoned, can’t we accept that sometimes this is a positive thing? And a reason we like to get high? And to go a tiny bit further out on this limb, that maybe even the so-called “crazies” might be on to something? (Please, i don’t mean when they grab a gun and start killing people!) What i mean is that the definition of “crazy” is constantly changing, and usually means someone thinking too far outside the box. In earlier times, these people were often seen as sages or saints. A taint of insanity, to us, was a sign of divine mission, to them. Or a sign of possession by the devil, depending on where the person was politically, i suppose.

    I am thinking particularly of the recognition of connections, and the openness to “signs”… obviously when it becomes so extreme that every little thing becomes full of ominous portent, and the person can’t function without profound reflection on the shape of their fried egg, then it’s become a handicap. Again, some people are much more susceptible to this development than others. But, when you first become aware of these connections, the signs so to speak, you are experiencing a spiritual awareness that can give you faith in the providence of the universe. Okay, i will speak in the first person. When I get high and start noticing the little coincidences that say “Yes, there is that song, or that feather, or that person… that i was just thinking of, or on the path i chose to take …. and that’s a good sign!” I feel that weed has helped me notice a usually invisible hand of design in my experiences, as if (not “God” but a godlike collective cooperation of energies) some higher, overarching design is in play, and life is like an ever-fluid script where everything connects and comes home and has significance. This is a good feeling, which brings me the same kind of peaceful appreciation and acceptance that traditional religion brings its believers… but based on my own observations of life, not on some hierarchy of moralists or primitive books.

    A little crazy, but in a good way!

    And i have noticed that serious, long-term weed fanatics expand this to the point where every little thing is a sign, sometimes of government or social conspiracies. There’s a point where they have to stop, or possibly (only possibly) will become destructive. On the other hand, who are we to say that they are wrong? “Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they aren’t following you!”

    Just saying, i do think that marijuana use mimics or exaggerates signs of so-called mental illness… but that can be an interesting and instructional point of view, and maybe the “crazies” should be listened to, rather than drugged down or locked away just because they can see things the majority doesn’t see. Just as that part of ourselves that is opened up by marijuana should be listened to, even if eventually we might want to quit feeding it, and lock it back down in the basement.

    • Laura, beautifullly said.

    • Laura, i’m soooo tired of hearing the “scientific” claim that —pot heads have poor memories duh. Specially as this misunderstanding is most often made by those who haven’t carefully observed the “signs” that their own mind could work with when stoned. Poor memory, indeed, LOL! What really happens is that faculties like memory are expanded in unexpected ways.

      ‘–but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s memory works both ways.’ said
      the Queen.
      ‘I’m sure MINE only works one way,’ Alice remarked. ‘I can’t remember things before they happen.’
      ‘It’s a poor sort of memory that only works backwards,’ the Queen remarked.

      • I hear you, Suzy.

        Personally, i do have a memory problem that’s exacerbated while high. Probably because i’m essentially not paying attention, or paying too much, so then i’m paying attention to worrying about whether i’m remembering what we’re talking about. But there’s a spaciness syndrome in our entire family– we’re always dying of dementia.

        “Reality is for people who can’t handle drugs”– that’s no joke. Some of the people all the time, and most of the people some of the time, should hang out in consensual reality. It’s not like we are all alike and there’s some blanket rule for states of mind.

      • ‘…one’s memory works both ways.’ said the Queen.

        We are connected to the entire universe as only our infinitely unique individual selves can be. We are completely unique perspectives of existence as legitimate all others.

  • I try to refrain but it’s so hard. I’ve gotta laugh when people say those ridiculous things like “denial is the first sign of addiction” or “… the biggest desire… is to defend marijuana use…” Too funny! Wonderful Catch-22, to set up a rationale in which denying something means you must be guilty of it. “If someone denies being a closet racist, then they must be a closet racist. If they deny torturing small animals, why they must be animal torturers. If they say they are the 99%, it’s a sure sign they are the 1%.” Pretty cynical!

    “When they doth protest too much, they’re surely guilty.” “Who smelt it, dealt it!”

    So i say, i smoke herb, and i am not addicted to it. Must be a lie, eh? Just like saying, I eat toast for breakfast, but am not addicted to it. Ah, but try taking it away and watch me!

    On a more serious note, i agree with Suzy Blah Blah, as a cannabis user, that some people’s brains are affected in subtle and (long-term) not-so-subtle ways, often resembling or exacerbating mental illness. Have seen and experienced it myself, in myself, and in others close to me.

    As many have pointed out, that’s completely beside the point of whether or not it should be anyone’s right to do it. I think we should be allowed to make our own choices, and when our behavior gets out of hand, we need to be reminded, corrected, or eventually, restrained… but that tiny percent (esp. compared to those abusing other, legal, substances) of people experiencing destructive symptoms does not make it right to deny the vast majority of the right to choose. This point has been made many times.

    But my point is this: in agreeing that some of the signs of schizophrenia are similar to those of being very stoned, can’t we accept that sometimes this is a positive thing? And a reason we like to get high? And to go a tiny bit further out on this limb, that maybe even the so-called “crazies” might be on to something? (Please, i don’t mean when they grab a gun and start killing people!) What i mean is that the definition of “crazy” is constantly changing, and usually means someone thinking too far outside the box. In earlier times, these people were often seen as sages or saints. A taint of insanity, to us, was a sign of divine mission, to them. Or a sign of possession by the devil, depending on where the person was politically, i suppose.

    I am thinking particularly of the recognition of connections, and the openness to “signs”… obviously when it becomes so extreme that every little thing becomes full of ominous portent, and the person can’t function without profound reflection on the shape of their fried egg, then it’s become a handicap. Again, some people are much more susceptible to this development than others. But, when you first become aware of these connections, the signs so to speak, you are experiencing a spiritual awareness that can give you faith in the providence of the universe. Okay, i will speak in the first person. When I get high and start noticing the little coincidences that say “Yes, there is that song, or that feather, or that person… that i was just thinking of, or on the path i chose to take …. and that’s a good sign!” I feel that weed has helped me notice a usually invisible hand of design in my experiences, as if (not “God” but a godlike collective cooperation of energies) some higher, overarching design is in play, and life is like an ever-fluid script where everything connects and comes home and has significance. This is a good feeling, which brings me the same kind of peaceful appreciation and acceptance that traditional religion brings its believers… but based on my own observations of life, not on some hierarchy of moralists or primitive books.

    A little crazy, but in a good way!

    And i have noticed that serious, long-term weed fanatics expand this to the point where every little thing is a sign, sometimes of government or social conspiracies. There’s a point where they have to stop, or possibly (only possibly) will become destructive. On the other hand, who are we to say that they are wrong? “Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they aren’t following you!”

    Just saying, i do think that marijuana use mimics or exaggerates signs of so-called mental illness… but that can be an interesting and instructional point of view, and maybe the “crazies” should be listened to, rather than drugged down or locked away just because they can see things the majority doesn’t see. Just as that part of ourselves that is opened up by marijuana should be listened to, even if eventually we might want to quit feeding it, and lock it back down in the basement.

    • Laura, beautifullly said.

    • Laura, i’m soooo tired of hearing the “scientific” claim that —pot heads have poor memories duh. Specially as this misunderstanding is most often made by those who haven’t carefully observed the “signs” that their own mind could work with when stoned. Poor memory, indeed, LOL! What really happens is that faculties like memory are expanded in unexpected ways.

      ‘–but there’s one great advantage in it, that one’s memory works both ways.’ said
      the Queen.
      ‘I’m sure MINE only works one way,’ Alice remarked. ‘I can’t remember things before they happen.’
      ‘It’s a poor sort of memory that only works backwards,’ the Queen remarked.

      • I hear you, Suzy.

        Personally, i do have a memory problem that’s exacerbated while high. Probably because i’m essentially not paying attention, or paying too much, so then i’m paying attention to worrying about whether i’m remembering what we’re talking about. But there’s a spaciness syndrome in our entire family– we’re always dying of dementia.

        “Reality is for people who can’t handle drugs”– that’s no joke. Some of the people all the time, and most of the people some of the time, should hang out in consensual reality. It’s not like we are all alike and there’s some blanket rule for states of mind.

      • ‘…one’s memory works both ways.’ said the Queen.

        We are connected to the entire universe as only our infinitely unique individual selves can be. We are completely unique perspectives of existence as legitimate all others.

  • i want to sincerely thank you all from the bottom of my heart, those who contributed to this thoughtful dialog. THANK YOU SOOOO MUCH! Ever since this rumor started 100 years ago, i haven’t been able to make heads or tails of anything. Now my mind is full of new ideas to articulate and explore, and utilize in practice. The sheer perseverance of this blog’s up-to-the-minute presentation of the latest late-breaking information is astounding!!!! It’s like a trip back to 1911 on a computer! HAHAHAHA! LOL!

    let me again sincerely say, with all the love of a mother for her only child: THIS ISSUE NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED!!!! IT DEMANDS ATTENTION! MARIJUANA IS MAKING PEOPLE CRAZY OR NOT! THANK YOU ALL SO SO MUCH FOR YOUR ideas! THiS iS PRICELESS KNOWLEDGE, THIS pAGE A VERITABLE TIME CAPSULE dEMONSTRATING THE NEED TO coME TO TERMS WITH THIS ISSUE STILL OVER 1000 years UNSOLVED!!!! over ONE THOUSAND YEARS AND NOBODY’S FIGURED IT OUT UNTIL MAYBE AFTER THEY READ THIS PAGE!!!! THANK YOU ALL SO SO SO MUCH!!!

    <3 <3 <3 <3!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • i want to sincerely thank you all from the bottom of my heart, those who contributed to this thoughtful dialog. THANK YOU SOOOO MUCH! Ever since this rumor started 100 years ago, i haven’t been able to make heads or tails of anything. Now my mind is full of new ideas to articulate and explore, and utilize in practice. The sheer perseverance of this blog’s up-to-the-minute presentation of the latest late-breaking information is astounding!!!! It’s like a trip back to 1911 on a computer! HAHAHAHA! LOL!

    let me again sincerely say, with all the love of a mother for her only child: THIS ISSUE NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED!!!! IT DEMANDS ATTENTION! MARIJUANA IS MAKING PEOPLE CRAZY OR NOT! THANK YOU ALL SO SO MUCH FOR YOUR ideas! THiS iS PRICELESS KNOWLEDGE, THIS pAGE A VERITABLE TIME CAPSULE dEMONSTRATING THE NEED TO coME TO TERMS WITH THIS ISSUE STILL OVER 1000 years UNSOLVED!!!! over ONE THOUSAND YEARS AND NOBODY’S FIGURED IT OUT UNTIL MAYBE AFTER THEY READ THIS PAGE!!!! THANK YOU ALL SO SO SO MUCH!!!

    <3 <3 <3 <3!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Does Obama`s health care plan have a provision for Marijuana ? Can I get the 1% to pay for my medicine?

  • Does Obama`s health care plan have a provision for Marijuana ? Can I get the 1% to pay for my medicine?

  • I know somebody that chain smokes Marijuana. I say that I know him, but really, the only thing that I know about him is that he chain smoke the stuff, otherwise he sticks pretty much to himself. What’s up with that?

    I know at least two other people that chain smoke MJ and they make very little sense.

    • Everything in moderation. If i chain-smoked parsley, i might not make any sense. Who knows? Obviously not everyone who smokes pot gets this way, but some do, and the question becomes: are they that way because they smoke weed, or do they keep themselves totally out of commission because they’re that kind of person? I think it’s the latter, and in the old days out in the hills here, i imagine those folks were rancher hermits who hid when visitors came by. Or maybe they were the ones who got sent down to the asylum in Napa. I know a few of them now, or almost! You get used to certain things, and loneliness is one of them. It’s not weed per se that makes anyone that way. If it were, you wouldn’t see it coming out at every party.

  • I know somebody that chain smokes Marijuana. I say that I know him, but really, the only thing that I know about him is that he chain smoke the stuff, otherwise he sticks pretty much to himself. What’s up with that?

    I know at least two other people that chain smoke MJ and they make very little sense.

    • Everything in moderation. If i chain-smoked parsley, i might not make any sense. Who knows? Obviously not everyone who smokes pot gets this way, but some do, and the question becomes: are they that way because they smoke weed, or do they keep themselves totally out of commission because they’re that kind of person? I think it’s the latter, and in the old days out in the hills here, i imagine those folks were rancher hermits who hid when visitors came by. Or maybe they were the ones who got sent down to the asylum in Napa. I know a few of them now, or almost! You get used to certain things, and loneliness is one of them. It’s not weed per se that makes anyone that way. If it were, you wouldn’t see it coming out at every party.

  • Randomn Guy v. Laura debate;

    New revelations? Signs? Unlocking hidden potential? These are not new propositions, but as old as sin. If you do mind altering substances, you are eventually opening you mind up to control by other entities. “Voices” if you will. First and foremost by the great adversary, the devil who is seeking to destroy you. Second, by fellow human beings controlled by the devil, who practice mind control such as NLP and hypnosis. Even our media and society is programming you to think a certain way, call it group hypnosis. The answer: Jesus Christ can give you the power to close those open channels and regain your “manhood.” He can deliver you from every addiction. Read the Word. It will tell you which voices to listen too.

    • How is the voice of Jesus any less crazy than hearing any other voice? What if the bible was written by a bunch of stoners? Burning bush, anyone?

    • Jesus Christ can give you the power to close those open channels and regain your “manhood.”

      Different strokes for different folks. Personally i like to open the channels up wide, and let the energy flow, and listen to what the voices have to say. It’s not always easy to hear them, or understand what they have to tell you. Because they are subtle, very subtle, like a small still voice inside. But there are botanical aids in this world that can and will help you to hear.

      Like for instance, i had a lot of help in regaining my masculine side (or “manhood” i guess some people call it) not from Jesus Christ, but from a large dose of psillyciben mushrooms. It totally washed away all the superficial barbie doll “femininity” from my soul. Man, it felt soooo good to shed that plastic off. It wasn’t easy. It was almost like getting rid of an addiction or something. But it opened up, and totally turned on, a certain channel that was never available before on my psychic tv set.

      Then i was able to get in contact with my deep inner male energy. It was a trip of biblical proportions. I contacted my inner male self at the crossroads of the Universe. He was wearing long sleeved red underwear. And he had little horns on his head and a pointed tale. And he carried a pitchfork! He told me he uses the pitchfork to help him cultivate a killer strain of the devil’s weed. He told me a lot of things. He is a veeery charming conversationalist, let me tell you about it, and we hit it off real good. Me and my inner man. And, being that i’m a natural girl, you know —he tempted me … (blush).
      i’ll leave the rest up to your imagination. If you have any.

      • For lack of better words…WTF?

      • Great story! Glad you got a chance to meet that guy. And to shed the plastic Barbie trip. That’s so much rolled into one!

      • How many times have you heard people say they don’t believe in magic, god(s), ESP. etc. because, they vehemently argue, there would be concrete proof if such ideas were real. We would see somebody wave their hand and part the ocean, they want to witness somebody turn water into wine or fly around like a bird yada yada. They say if magic was real, they should be able to see a real miracle with their own eyes.

        But they’re not asking for miracles, they’re asking for the impossible. A complete paradox. “show me something impossible to show me.” We live in a miracle. Fresh water falling from the sky is a miracle. Ripe fruit is a miracle. Music is a miracle. I defy anybody to eat magic mushrooms, “break through” and not emerge with a greater understanding of all things. Too bad for those who fall out of touch.

        turn like a wheel…he’s all right!
        see for yourself…the lord won’t mind!
        we’re gonna move…right now!
        turn like a wheel inside a wheel…

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsEf8pN1alY

    • I didn’t even know i was in a debate with Random Guy. I know that people who don’t really love words sometimes get fed up with my oversupply of them.

      But, Anonymous… if anything might make rational people find a common ground, it’s calling out Jesus and the Bible. Jesus is just all right with me… don’t get me wrong. But to start acting as if any voices not found in the Bible are the devils… well, this is exactly why weed is helpful. It might help you see that there are other voices that are a lot more humane, balanced, and “real” than those you’ll find in the old books.

      I know an older lady, just a fine, top-notch, well-respected citizen, now almost 90 years old. She was raised as a Methodist, with a lot of do-gooderism encouraging her naturally compassionate and inspired personality. She told me that in the Sixties, someone she trusted offered her a joint. She asked herself, because this seemed like an important question of right and wrong, “What would my church tell me to do? What is the Christian thing to do?” and her friend said, “Maybe that church, and that idea of God, isn’t the only one,” and my friend said “OOOOOh, i see! Maybe there is something else!” and took a toke. Still enjoys one occasionally.

      Point is, there’s nothing wrong with Jesus, and there’s nothing wrong with heightening your senses with marijuana. But when someone tries to tell you that Jesus doesn’t like marijuana, all reason is lost.

  • Randomn Guy v. Laura debate;

    New revelations? Signs? Unlocking hidden potential? These are not new propositions, but as old as sin. If you do mind altering substances, you are eventually opening you mind up to control by other entities. “Voices” if you will. First and foremost by the great adversary, the devil who is seeking to destroy you. Second, by fellow human beings controlled by the devil, who practice mind control such as NLP and hypnosis. Even our media and society is programming you to think a certain way, call it group hypnosis. The answer: Jesus Christ can give you the power to close those open channels and regain your “manhood.” He can deliver you from every addiction. Read the Word. It will tell you which voices to listen too.

    • How is the voice of Jesus any less crazy than hearing any other voice? What if the bible was written by a bunch of stoners? Burning bush, anyone?

    • Jesus Christ can give you the power to close those open channels and regain your “manhood.”

      Different strokes for different folks. Personally i like to open the channels up wide, and let the energy flow, and listen to what the voices have to say. It’s not always easy to hear them, or understand what they have to tell you. Because they are subtle, very subtle, like a small still voice inside. But there are botanical aids in this world that can and will help you to hear.

      Like for instance, i had a lot of help in regaining my masculine side (or “manhood” i guess some people call it) not from Jesus Christ, but from a large dose of psillyciben mushrooms. It totally washed away all the superficial barbie doll “femininity” from my soul. Man, it felt soooo good to shed that plastic off. It wasn’t easy. It was almost like getting rid of an addiction or something. But it opened up, and totally turned on, a certain channel that was never available before on my psychic tv set.

      Then i was able to get in contact with my deep inner male energy. It was a trip of biblical proportions. I contacted my inner male self at the crossroads of the Universe. He was wearing long sleeved red underwear. And he had little horns on his head and a pointed tale. And he carried a pitchfork! He told me he uses the pitchfork to help him cultivate a killer strain of the devil’s weed. He told me a lot of things. He is a veeery charming conversationalist, let me tell you about it, and we hit it off real good. Me and my inner man. And, being that i’m a natural girl, you know —he tempted me … (blush).
      i’ll leave the rest up to your imagination. If you have any.

      • For lack of better words…WTF?

      • Great story! Glad you got a chance to meet that guy. And to shed the plastic Barbie trip. That’s so much rolled into one!

      • How many times have you heard people say they don’t believe in magic, god(s), ESP. etc. because, they vehemently argue, there would be concrete proof if such ideas were real. We would see somebody wave their hand and part the ocean, they want to witness somebody turn water into wine or fly around like a bird yada yada. They say if magic was real, they should be able to see a real miracle with their own eyes.

        But they’re not asking for miracles, they’re asking for the impossible. A complete paradox. “show me something impossible to show me.” We live in a miracle. Fresh water falling from the sky is a miracle. Ripe fruit is a miracle. Music is a miracle. I defy anybody to eat magic mushrooms, “break through” and not emerge with a greater understanding of all things. Too bad for those who fall out of touch.

        turn like a wheel…he’s all right!
        see for yourself…the lord won’t mind!
        we’re gonna move…right now!
        turn like a wheel inside a wheel…

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsEf8pN1alY

    • I didn’t even know i was in a debate with Random Guy. I know that people who don’t really love words sometimes get fed up with my oversupply of them.

      But, Anonymous… if anything might make rational people find a common ground, it’s calling out Jesus and the Bible. Jesus is just all right with me… don’t get me wrong. But to start acting as if any voices not found in the Bible are the devils… well, this is exactly why weed is helpful. It might help you see that there are other voices that are a lot more humane, balanced, and “real” than those you’ll find in the old books.

      I know an older lady, just a fine, top-notch, well-respected citizen, now almost 90 years old. She was raised as a Methodist, with a lot of do-gooderism encouraging her naturally compassionate and inspired personality. She told me that in the Sixties, someone she trusted offered her a joint. She asked herself, because this seemed like an important question of right and wrong, “What would my church tell me to do? What is the Christian thing to do?” and her friend said, “Maybe that church, and that idea of God, isn’t the only one,” and my friend said “OOOOOh, i see! Maybe there is something else!” and took a toke. Still enjoys one occasionally.

      Point is, there’s nothing wrong with Jesus, and there’s nothing wrong with heightening your senses with marijuana. But when someone tries to tell you that Jesus doesn’t like marijuana, all reason is lost.

  • Pearl of great price

    We truly live in a world of altered reality. It’s as altered as “heightening your senses” with marijuana, alcohol or any other number of stimulants or depressants which enhance or depress your moods and thought processes. But the reality is only perceptually altered, not in fact.

    If Miss blah blah had told me she talked with a pope, bishop, pastor, or priest, or some other hierarchy being who had taken a self imposed vow of celibacy, and then was induced to engage in illicit sexual behavior, I would then truly believed that she had a relationship with the devil.

    “For such are false apostles, deceitful workers transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ and no marvel: for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is not great thing if his minister also be transformed as the minsters of righteousness, who end shall be according to their works.” 2 Cor 11

    This transformation of Satan is just like the development of schizophrenia. On the outside you profess to be working for good. You do good works, but you motivation is to deceive and look good on the outside to appear good before men or your church. But you have lost your manhood, your ability to exercise your own free will against evil, not to merely “look” good on the outside. But to abide in Christ and truly be free on the inside.

    “And he asked him, What [is] thy name? And he answered, saying, My name [is] Legion: for we are many…And they come to Jesus, and see him that was possessed with the devil, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid. Mark 5

    • If Miss blah blah had told me she talked with a pope, bishop, pastor, or priest, or some other hierarchy being who had taken a self imposed vow of celibacy, and then was induced to engage in illicit sexual behavior, I would then truly believed that she had a relationship with the devil.

      If any of you guys know a handsome, horny, celibate pope, bishop, pastor, or priest, out there, please tell him to contact me. Suzy can help to release the pent up evil energy causing his spiritual dilemma.
      “For now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.”
      Corinthians 13:9,10.

  • Pearl of great price

    We truly live in a world of altered reality. It’s as altered as “heightening your senses” with marijuana, alcohol or any other number of stimulants or depressants which enhance or depress your moods and thought processes. But the reality is only perceptually altered, not in fact.

    If Miss blah blah had told me she talked with a pope, bishop, pastor, or priest, or some other hierarchy being who had taken a self imposed vow of celibacy, and then was induced to engage in illicit sexual behavior, I would then truly believed that she had a relationship with the devil.

    “For such are false apostles, deceitful workers transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ and no marvel: for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is not great thing if his minister also be transformed as the minsters of righteousness, who end shall be according to their works.” 2 Cor 11

    This transformation of Satan is just like the development of schizophrenia. On the outside you profess to be working for good. You do good works, but you motivation is to deceive and look good on the outside to appear good before men or your church. But you have lost your manhood, your ability to exercise your own free will against evil, not to merely “look” good on the outside. But to abide in Christ and truly be free on the inside.

    “And he asked him, What [is] thy name? And he answered, saying, My name [is] Legion: for we are many…And they come to Jesus, and see him that was possessed with the devil, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid. Mark 5

    • If Miss blah blah had told me she talked with a pope, bishop, pastor, or priest, or some other hierarchy being who had taken a self imposed vow of celibacy, and then was induced to engage in illicit sexual behavior, I would then truly believed that she had a relationship with the devil.

      If any of you guys know a handsome, horny, celibate pope, bishop, pastor, or priest, out there, please tell him to contact me. Suzy can help to release the pent up evil energy causing his spiritual dilemma.
      “For now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.”
      Corinthians 13:9,10.

  • it sort of amazes me that no one here sees pot as sacrament or see plants the same way as the indiginous. this would be something that would be passed in a peace pipe around in a circle. first a smoke and then the person would say something. pretty much like a 12 step meeting. generally speaking, these herbs were used by the shaman or doctor to effect a cure or acquire a power or gift. if someone in the tribe already was exhibiting symptoms of schizophrenia or crazy behavior, they wouldn’t give him this type of sacrament. they would give him the equivalent of thorazine, actually not that toxic, but something that would calm the person down. back in the 60’s, being schizophrenic could get you out of the vietnam war which was an exercise in insanity in its own right. nowadays, thanks to regan, schizophrenics wind up homeless in places like garberville dreaming of a big payday for trimming sacrament.
    so it seems that sacrament has given these so called mentally ill people a job opportunity. which doesn’t seem too bad in today’s job market. and none of these people were killed in nam which may explain your increase of local schizophrenics.
    plus, every news article i read talks about all the people vietnam, iraq, and afganistan made crazy. war makes people far more crazy than sacrament does. it’s not even close. if you are out to get rid of insanity, stopping war would be a good place to start.

    • “In a traditional native american society, if you exhibit “schizophrenic” tenancies, you are put under the care of master shamans, you are told, you are special, your abilities are very central to the health of our society, you will guide our society in its most fundamental decisions. But in our society, the schizophrenic is told, you don’t fit in, you are a problem, you don’t pull your own weight, you are not of equal worth to the rest of us, you are sick, you have to be locked up, like a prisoner or a lost dog. We have gone sick by following a path of untrammeled rationalism, male dominance, practicality, bottom-linism.”
      schizophrenia and shamanism

  • it sort of amazes me that no one here sees pot as sacrament or see plants the same way as the indiginous. this would be something that would be passed in a peace pipe around in a circle. first a smoke and then the person would say something. pretty much like a 12 step meeting. generally speaking, these herbs were used by the shaman or doctor to effect a cure or acquire a power or gift. if someone in the tribe already was exhibiting symptoms of schizophrenia or crazy behavior, they wouldn’t give him this type of sacrament. they would give him the equivalent of thorazine, actually not that toxic, but something that would calm the person down. back in the 60’s, being schizophrenic could get you out of the vietnam war which was an exercise in insanity in its own right. nowadays, thanks to regan, schizophrenics wind up homeless in places like garberville dreaming of a big payday for trimming sacrament.
    so it seems that sacrament has given these so called mentally ill people a job opportunity. which doesn’t seem too bad in today’s job market. and none of these people were killed in nam which may explain your increase of local schizophrenics.
    plus, every news article i read talks about all the people vietnam, iraq, and afganistan made crazy. war makes people far more crazy than sacrament does. it’s not even close. if you are out to get rid of insanity, stopping war would be a good place to start.

    • “In a traditional native american society, if you exhibit “schizophrenic” tenancies, you are put under the care of master shamans, you are told, you are special, your abilities are very central to the health of our society, you will guide our society in its most fundamental decisions. But in our society, the schizophrenic is told, you don’t fit in, you are a problem, you don’t pull your own weight, you are not of equal worth to the rest of us, you are sick, you have to be locked up, like a prisoner or a lost dog. We have gone sick by following a path of untrammeled rationalism, male dominance, practicality, bottom-linism.”
      schizophrenia and shamanism

  • celibacy as a moment item, do able in a quantum world- very good reads-we are confined by our real,so most tend to compromise- that in it self,ritual-

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