Notes

bowl

Just a note or two:

Cristina Bauss has written a wonderful new piece based on information from Emma Worldpeace that compares the drug use and death rates of Southern Humboldt youth to those of youth statewide.  The statistics are staggering! Below is just a piece from what Cristina (and Emma) had to say!

“Compared to other Humboldt County census areas,” Worldpeace reported, Southern Humboldt’s youth death rate per 100,000 population is significantly higher – 28.3 to 14.2 [countywide average].” The area with the next-highest numbers – Trinity-Klamath, which includes Hoopa and Weitchpec – had 23.4 youth deaths per 100,000, with Arcata coming in a distant third at 14.5.

In related news, Attorny General Eric Holder declared yesterday that federal agents will ony go after dispensaries and other marijuana distributers when they violate both state and federal law.  In other words, the federal government will start respecting state law.

——————

Note,  if marijuana were legalized, the culture of secrecy would dissipate–no longer requiring regular sacrifices of our young.

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Sophie Lagacé
Guest
15 years ago

Wow. Thanks for pointing us to that article. It’s heart-wrenching.

TjandMark
Guest
15 years ago

Yes, it is indeed gut wrenching. I pray about what we can do to help. We live in such a beautiful place and yet I often feel a pall of darkness. This must be some of that darkness. So sad. I had suspicions that the levels of use and teenage death must be higher here, but I had no idea it was that high. Great piece of work by Emma Worldpeace. Now what do we do about it? -Tj

Staff
Member
15 years ago

Sophie, I told my son last night that because we live here his chance of dying doubles. I’m not happy with that and

TJ, I’m planning on seeing what I can do through the group with Emma Worldpeace and in my writing but I’m open to more ideas.

Carol
Guest
Carol
15 years ago

Keep an open line of communication going with your kids. Keep the dialogue going.

Indie
Guest
15 years ago

It was one of my primary reasons for leaving the area with my young children in 2000.

The previous year, 1999 I had printed story after story of young people dying. The high school was offering grief counseling because there was so much mayhem in the students’ young lives. There was an overdose, car accidents, murders, a double murder+suicide, a double suicide, a couple of disappearances, kids jumping a transient and killing him.

All those incidents did not involve youths, but they all did involve young people, 25 and younger.

Of course, we wound up back in Humboldt, and one son even wound up in SoHum. So moving didn’t do much good except to disrupt the family. I hope you can find better solutions.

Sounds like some good reporting from those Bauss and Worldpeace.

tom
Guest
tom
15 years ago

Okay, so what does this have to do with pot. And yes we should legalize all drugs and let people decide for themselves what to do with their lives. I Think booze and crank have more to do with these deaths than pot. Sometimes it is easy to take a satistic and make it fit your own pet peev.

bluelaker4
Guest
bluelaker4
15 years ago

It’s a tragedy all right. (alright? never can remember the correct way to spell that!)

BTW I don’t care how valuable those buds are, they are just plain ugleeeeeeeeee. I’ve never seen them in person and this is the first photo I’ve seen. Looks like a fungus.

Staff
Member
15 years ago

Carol, I agree!

Indie, Bauss is an excellent reporter and Emma is an amazing woman. I’m hoping that with people like them and with others in our community all pitching in together we can change those statistics.

Tom, You know, I noticed myself that most of those deaths are not attributable to marijuana and there is nothing about marijuana that if it were legal would cause any of this). But, what young people have said, is that the culture of secrecy surrounding the illegality of marijuana causes a great deal of stress. However, another possibility I’ve heard mentioned is that a lack of boundaries in our culture causes this. Both explanations could be true and maybe there is another. What do you think makes SoHum so tragically worse?

Bluelaker, These are the manicured finished version. They don’t look like that growing. Many people just like the look of the plant. I’ve heard rumors that one of the local garden clubs (the grandma with roses kind) gave them away as door prizes one year because of their beauty.

06em
Guest
06em
15 years ago

I only lived in SoHum briefly, so I’m obviously no expert, but I don’t think the data you post above describes a unique or even new reality. The problems of the rural parts of our county have much in common with the rural parts of lots of the US — and have for many years. I googled – 1950 teen suicide rates rural urban suburban – and one of the links that came up was a 2003 study (pdf) called Frontier Youth: Living on the Edge. Here is a quote pulled from it:

In 1987, Greenberg, Carey, and Popper published an article that highlighted regional differences in violent deaths of white youth between 15 and 24 years of age from 1939 through 1979. Six western states had consistently high death rates from all causes, while four northeastern states had consistently low rates. The authors discovered that from 1950 through the 1970s, death rates from all causes for rural youth in Arizona, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, and Wyoming were 40% higher than the national average for males and 56% higher than the national average for females. They also reported that suicide rates during this time period were twice as high in the western states as in the northeast for males and three times as high for females with tremendous variation between communities of similar size and location.

Rural life seems to be the determining factor, since pot and meth weren’t issues in the 1940s for rural kids. Teens clearly have problems in the county — especially in the most rural parts. Emma Worldpeace has done great work to bring these issues before us.

My fear is that so many “zero tolerance” and “war on drugs” focused studies (not Emmas) identify drug use as the source of the problems we face and that, to me, ignores the real sources of the problem. I hope we can think of drug use as a symptom and not a cause. My guess for the sources of the problems our teens face would be: 1.poverty 2.the clash of “looking out for your own” rural ethics with the artificial ethics presented by mass media and 3.insufficient governmental return on our tax dollars. Again, my SoHum experience is very limited so I may be missing something, but that’s my two cents.

Staff
Member
15 years ago

06em, God, I love blogs. What you have to say really rang true with me. The information you provided gave me a whole new perspective! Tom pointed out that there isn’t necessarily a connection and you pointed out some very pertinent facts backing that up! Thank you! If we as a community are going to change this problem, we need to understand what is really causing it.

Kato
Guest
Kato
15 years ago

Kym, thanks for posting the link to Cristina’s article; the statistics are important. 06em, Emma did say that death rates are higher for youths in all rural areas, but even considering this, the numbers for our small area are of concern. She studied only the SoHum Unified School District, not even the whole county.

As far as the connection between high death rates, substance abuse and pot, I think it’s important to distinguish between pot USE and the pot CULTURE. One of the emergent, recurring themes in Emma’s research was the fact that children in “growing” families are brought up to be silently complicit, distrustful of authority and discouraged from seeking help (there’s a kind of “we can handle it ourselves” attitude). This unwillingness to express concerns is coupled with a “live-and-let-live” approach with regard to other people’s habits. Arguably the most addictive drug discussed was the easy money that pot-growing offered to young people, eclipsing the drive to pursue other goals, and providing disposable income for vehicles, alcohol and other substances. Not to say that’s the inevitable path for Humboldt youth (Emma proves that point!), but for some kids, fast cash is the gateway drug.

Joe Blow
Guest
15 years ago

Kym,

Thank you! If we as a community are going to change this problem, we need to understand what is really causing it.

You figure it out yet or are you still thinking about it?

I wouldn’t worry about it too much, based upon the above “Kato” comment and as we’ve discussed previously, whatever solutions offered so far for this nasty problem amount to nothing more than a Band Aid on skin cancer.

Staff
Member
15 years ago

Joe, you seem to think Kato is offering a facile analysis? To me, Kato is offering insight that is helping me formulate my opinion and figure out how best to approach the problem. What do you think should be done?

Joe Blow
Guest
15 years ago

Kym,

By “facile” I suppose you mean superficial? Since I included into that mix previous conversations we’ve had that apparently offered NO INSIGHT into “the problem” I would conclude they were “facile” too. Actually, that information only reinforces my original observations about the cause and extent of the disease i.e., “problem.”

I noticed that you didn’t respond to my last post on the “When Marijuana Is Legalized …” thread. I wrote that response to help you identify “the problem.”

What do I think should be done? Identify the disease and quit belaboring the symptoms. So, what’s the problem?

indie
Guest
15 years ago

Kato wrote: “silently complicit, distrustful of authority and discouraged from seeking help (there’s a kind of “we can handle it ourselves” attitude).”

I have seen this outside of SoHum in other high-risk children in the county. And other people too. Hell, I sometimes feel this way myself. I think it comes from negative experiences with authority, especially brushes with corrupt authority.

With kids, I think it comes also from engaging in illegal activity that does not seem wrong, e.g., smoking pot. The leap then is if the law is wrong about this, then what else is it wrong about?

Or that the law and justice/rightness have nothing in common.
Or that authority only exists to restrict lives and freedom.
And that seeking help only involves one in bureaucracy that ADDS to the complications and does not HELP.

We like to think none of these things are true, but all it takes is a close encounter with corrupt authority (figure, system or both) to realize how much of our security is an illusion and how naive we are to think the basis of our laws is justice.

But without the structures of those things, we still have to have some way to teach our children ethics and personal integrity.

Kato
Guest
Kato
15 years ago

To clarify, I was trying to paraphrase Emma’s study, not formulate my own diagnosis. I agree with you, Indie, that those quoted symptoms are not exclusive to kids from this area, and while they aren’t deadly attitudes, they may inhibit blowing the whistle on out-of-control behavior among peers. What the youth interviewed said -themselves- was that unclear boundaries and a lack of constructive things to do were the biggest “problems”.

Staff
Member
15 years ago

Joe, I’m sorry I had missed that comment somehow and I went back and responded to it. So the problem isn’t marijuana but what the culture of secrecy and law breaking has begot. I agree heartily that that is a huge problem. Legalizing would seem to be a first step to undoing what has been done.

Indie, I believe that the injustice of the marijuana laws have led to a lack of respect for authority and boundaries. In some respect this has been wonderful. This culture for a long time has been more tolerant of differences in others and more open to new ways of thinking. I love that part of it! However, this also leads to a throwing of the baby out with the bathwater thinking, too.

Kato, I’m glad you clarified that. I remember the last being a huge problem when I was a kid and it still is. Maybe instead of offering more of what city kids get we should be trying to offer more of what we have naturally–camping, hunting, fishing, exploring, hiking, etc. What about dances with adults there?

Kato
Guest
Kato
15 years ago

That’s exactly what our group is organizing: activities for kids who don’t go in for organized sports but still want the benefits of physical exertion, camaraderie plus outdoor adventure. And a chance for kids to participate whose parents aren’t able to drive them around or provide equipment.

Staff
Member
15 years ago

Keep me informed. I’ll bet Quinn would like to be involved.

Joe Blow
Guest
15 years ago

Kym,

Just to make it clear on this thread, I DID NOT SAY, the, “culture of secrecy and law breaking has begot” the problem. I, in fact, said those things, as is youth dying, are mere “symptoms” of the very serious disease that is killing the body. At this point in time, expending all your energy trying to legalize marijuana, to repeat, is like trying to put a Band Aid on skin cancer.

Staff
Member
15 years ago

So you think the whole justice system is falling down?

tom
Guest
tom
15 years ago

I have been thinking about this allot and this is what I come up with. One: In studies of alcohol use children from strict families are at greater risk of abuse then kids with family support and with experience around the alcohol issue. 2: Calif. schools are 47th in the nation. (Many of us voted for prop 13). We were no 1 before that. Since we have little or no money, the schools teach to the test which stifles creativity and critical thinking so we give our creative kids drugs i.e. Ridilen etc. which have the major side effect of suicidal thoughts and actions. 3: Our national governments engage in secrecy, in lying, and have as a national policy to attack your neighbor if you think they could be may be a threat. And we have as a national policy the practice of drive by shooting. (Collateral damage when the gov. does it and drive by shooting when a gang does it.
This all does nothing to explain why son much death in So Hum. But then I can’t explain why Humboldt co. has the highest cancer rate in Calif. Either.

Staff
Member
15 years ago

The complexity of strands weaving around the high youth death rate makes it difficult to pluck just the one or two most important and say, “Aha, now I know and I’ll work to fix it.”

Joe Blow
Guest
15 years ago

Kym,

I assume this comment is for me? “So you think the whole justice system is falling down?” I absolutely do not know where you get that idea from anything I said. You posted the subject and I made an observation. Whatever I think is merely my opinion and I’m not into opinions.

I will tell you this, you are getting close. The problem is a whole lot more deep rooted than just the “justice system,” but you’re getting the idea. Look at what Tom posted. Even he is defining the problem when you look at the totality of what he said. You in your following comment keep picking at the symptoms i.e., “youth death.” Quit thinking like a medical doctor and broaden your horizons.

By the way, can you tell me what good a justice system is worth when the judges, lawyers and jurists were all raised by criminals, criminals that wantonly defied the “law” because they amorally believed they were entitled? Well, after you identify the “cancerous disease,” please.

Joe Blow
Guest
15 years ago

Tom says,

This all does nothing to explain why son much death in So Hum. But then I can’t explain why Humboldt co. has the highest cancer rate in Calif. Either.

Since we have some idea what causes cancers today, perhaps it would be of interest to understand just how much “crap” has been dumped into and onto Humboldt County land and water in the past years by saw mills, loggers, pulp mills, gas service stations, railroads, farmers, nuclear power plants, aerial applications by Simpson Timber Co., Sierra Pacific Industries, LP, PL, Barnum that cover the county, just to name a few. I forget the exact number of sawmills just up Salmon Creek at one time. A bunch.

headwrapper
Guest
15 years ago

I told my son last night that because we live here his chance of dying doubles.

I don’t buy that. And I don’t think that pointing at statistics on a chart will throw much light on this subject. Nor do I think that searching for some theoretical one underlying cause will help much either. Each case is individual and needs to be considered in that way. The problem needs to be addressed at the grass roots level, by which I mean the daily reality of the individual, not at the abstract level of this number is larger than this other number and isn’t that scary… etc.

olmanriver
Guest
olmanriver
15 years ago

Those are some very rough stats being offered. Useful yes, but as Headwrapper notes, not the whole truth.
There is a confluence of early wealth, a permissive drug environment, hellacious dangerous winding cliff lined roads, and growing up in these planet-perilous times. I remember being depressed about the adult world I was about to enter decades ago. What kind of a future have we created for our children with the materialistic rape of the earth?

Tho’ pot culture is getting a lot of the attention…it is those drinking stats that got my notice. I would love to know how the death stats compared by category (car accident, suicide, murder, and accidents) to other counties, particularly the wealthier ones. In how many of those deaths was alcohol a factor, pot a factor, more than one substance being used a factor). I better go read her thesis.

I don’t have answers, but I am glad that there is conversation ongoing.

Joe Blow
Guest
15 years ago

headwrapper
March 23, 2009 at 12:59 pm

Says,

Nor do I think that searching for some theoretical one underlying cause will help much either.

olmanriver continues in the next comment with more,

“Useful, yes, but, … not the whole truth.” And ends with, “I don’t have answers, but …”

Spoken like a true Southern Humboldt “experts”! “I DO NOT THINK.” “I DON’T HAVE ANSWERS.” None of which stops these people from trying to obfuscate the truth or those that do.

There’s absolutely NOTHING “thoeretical” about what’s gone on and what’s happened in Humboldt and surrounding counties for the past 40 years. Its all staring you right in your faces every day. All you need to do is open your eyes and take a good hard look. You might try doing that in a mirror. Of course, that would require a little honesty to accept some responsibility for your part in it.

headwrapper
Guest
15 years ago

Thanks for sharing an alternative viewpoint Joe. I’ll take your opinions into consideration.

Joe Blow
Guest
15 years ago

headwrapper, I don’t write opinions. Nor do I waste my time speculating on theories. I know it’s difficult for most people to understand the difference. Nevertheless, there is one.

headwrapper
Guest
15 years ago

Thanks for straightening me out on that Joe. I agree, it is difficult for most people to understand.

Staff
Member
15 years ago

Joe, I’m lost. I don’t know if I’m willfully not understanding you or just not smart enough. All I know is I have reread the comments on this and the other post and now my brain feels like someone had squeezed it in a big rubberband.

06em
Guest
06em
15 years ago

I’m with you, Kym. Perhaps Joe could plainly state what he keeps referring to (but never explains) for the benefit of those of us who don’t get it?

exrepublican
Guest
exrepublican
15 years ago

i think that the rural vs urban argument is the one that should be explored more…..here is why i think more teen deaths occur in rural areas than in urban areas:

a. most deaths are caused by vehicle accidents. compare rural driving to urban driving: rural kids drive roads with 55 MPH limits, curvy sections, poor lighting, muddy/rainy conditions and very few center dividers. city kids drive straight roads with 25 MPH limits, good lighting, good drainage and lots of center dividers. i think the solution is to teach our kids to slow down and to drive defensively.

b. rural kids are involved in more dangerous activities than city kids, many of which can lead to death or serious injury. riding quads, dirtbikes, hunting, cutting firewood, doing farm chores and such activites brings much more risk than the controlled environment of the city allows. the only solution i can propose is to keep safety fresh in our kids minds. tell them to be safe everytime they leave the house. also, teach them how to use and maintain tools and equipment properly.

c. rural kids may have more freedom than city kids. the countryside gives plenty of privacy, while the city offers less concealment for activities such as drinking, which can lead to auto accidents. my solution: keep an eye on your teenager no matter how much of a fight they put up. if they get caught drinking, smell their breath everytime they come in the house.

d. urban areas are more strictly enforced by law enforcement officials, which may deter some reckless behavior that in turn leads to teen death. my solution: dont rely on the cops to raise your kids, put the fear in them yourself.

e. urban areas have lower poverty rates, which would explain a lower teen suicide rate. my solution: get off the couch and get a job so that your kid doesnt have to wear ratty clothes to school and you can afford to buy him a baseball glove come summertime. put down the budweiser, turn off the TV, shave your beard, tuck that giant belly into your shirt, walk out of your trailer, and GET A JOB so that your kid doesnt have to be embarassed of his situation!!! how many parents in this county actually get up everyday and work a real job? in the rural parts of this county, it must be under 25%……

Joe Blow
Guest
15 years ago

Kym,

Lost, Huh? Keep an open mind and you’ll find your way. Since this subject commentary started on your post: When Marijuana is Legalized…Let’s Think Proactively I posted my response there.

Please note, I wrote my comment before reading Nice’s posting. It wouldn’t have made any difference anyway. My conversation is with you.

06em
Guest
06em
15 years ago

Joe, you have to realize that in posting to a blog, you leave yourself open to comments from whomever/whoever might pass by. It’s the nature of the thing.

06em
Guest
06em
15 years ago

Exrepub:

a. I think city teens get in lots of 55mph+ driving on interstates and other freeways. Although — like you noted — rural teens are driving those higher speeds on less forgiving roadways. Maybe this is why Humboldt has higher car insurance rates than counties with many more drivers on the road. I like your idea of better driver training. It should also be geared toward rural driving. Generic driving rules of the road training doesn’t offer enough for our driving conditions.

b,c,d For me, these are all of a piece. Strong and communicating families (however you define families) are key. Also key is an available and accessible social services component that can fill in when family is missing from a teens life.

e. I don’t live in SoHum. Is it a lack of ambition or a lack of jobs that can compete with growing weed or some other factor that is the root of the problem? The sunny-side liberal part of me wants to believe that living wage jobs, readily available in SoHum, would attract all but the most slothful couch potato.

Joe Blow
Guest
15 years ago

Kym,

I guess some of these people that post to your blog think that they can horn in on our conversation and that somehow we’re obligated to recognize them. I wonder what makes this “06em” or anyone else, for that matter, think I’m so stupid that IHAVE to “realize” anything he or she says? This response is classic of the knee-jerk, uneducated commentary that SO validates many of Joe Blow’s observations. Just so there’s no misunderstanding, I live and die by my own rules. This is the disclaimer on my Blogs:

Please be aware that the Joe Blow Report speaks for itself. You may or may not agree, but just remember, that is your issue. The Report is offered as a free gift to whomever desires to read it. Please accept it as such. The Report respects the rights of all individuals to be who and what they are. All the same there are consequences for what each individual does and does not do. If the Report stimulates a little thinking, it has fulfilled it’s purpose.

Joe Blow fully understands that whatever is posted on the Internet or printed in newspapers or spoken on television or on the radio bears the responsibility for being PUBLIC property, albeit sometimes copyrighted. Let’s hope that those Joe observes and reports about understand that as well. In other words, if you do not want to read or hear about someone’s observations, keep quiet! Or if you’re going to stand up on a soapbox in a public place and spout off you’d better be ready for a rotten egg or two.

Believe me, as you well know, I’ve received my fair share of rotten eggs. So, when people don’t like my choice of words when responding, the Blog Host can delete the insulting “rotten-egg” commentary. That way they won’t have to share in the insult or worry about my defending response.

Staff
Member
15 years ago

Exrepublican and 06em, you have valid points–I think the poverty level issue is particularly important. I’m not sure that jobs are as easily available as some portray but I think making an effort as parents to provide more than a roof is vital to raising healthy kids. I like the idea of drivers training for country kids. I try to provide it but it wouldn’t hurt to have my teaching reinforced elsewhere.

Joe, of course you don’t have to recognize what someone else says but when we all post on a blog the nature is that people will respond to what you say. And, that is one of my goals here is to start a conversation between disparate parts of the community–I think talking and listening to different viewpoints help us treat each other better. Feel free to just comment to me but people hopefully are reading and responding to what you say. (ps. I’m still lost though. Maybe if I could just get enough sleep…;>)

Joe Blow
Guest
15 years ago

Kym,

There’s a big difference between starting a conversation and preaching to someone, specially when your trying to preach to the choir. It becomes rather insulting. It may interest you to know that I’ve had a computer as long as there have been computers. I was on bulletin boards talking to people long before blogs were someone’s dream. And personally, in 1996 I had a rather popular website where I designed a prototype blog that I used for several years. So, do you really want to tell me what the “nature” of blogs are and who and who I cannot recognize?

For the record, by the time I had formulated my response, Nice had posted again. Since I alluded to him in my comment I did not want you or any of the other readers to misunderstand my comment. I had hoped to post right after your comment. I was hoping to avoid confusion. Despite all indications to the contrary, I don’t live under a rock, nor did I just crawl out from under one yesterday.

You say, “I think talking and listening to different viewpoints help us treat each other better.” You just might make that a reality when you “connect the dots.” You’ll get no opinions from me.

Staff
Member
15 years ago

Joe, I’m not trying to preach to you. I (a neophyte at blogging) am certainly not telling you that you don’t understand blogs. I’m telling you that on this blog I encourage people to talk to each other not just to me. I’m sorry if you perceived it differently.

Joe Blow
Guest
15 years ago

Kym says,

I’m telling you that on this blog I encourage people to talk to each other not just to me.

You’re “telling” me? Was that NOT my point? If I know the NATURE of Blogs what makes anyone think I need to be TOLD anything about the “nature” of blogs? The inference (perception, if you will) is that I’m stupid. Which, of course, is why I don’t as 06em says: “plainly state what he keeps referring to (but never explains) for the benefit of those of us who don’t get it“?

If you perceive a duck and I perceive a goose and the truth is its a turkey you and I are never going to communicate the truth to one another. Only at one another, which defeats your stated objective.

Perception is nice. Words, however, define themselves. It’s the one constant in this mess. So, perhaps, you could tell me what the perception is for rather direct comment that makes it worth a “white hat”?

suzy blah blah
March 25, 2009 at 4:51 pm

Here’s a cewl link on how to obtain a stomach-ache
http://www.lambiek.net/artists/f/fisher_h/fisher_h.jpg

a tip of Suzys white hat to Ham Fisher
ox

Staff
Member
15 years ago

Joe, On Ernie’s blog, post Feb 26, Suzie said something that was more serious than her wont. People teased that she was wearing a 3 piece suit and she asked me if I thought she should wear a white or a black hat with it. I told her that she already wears the prettiest white hat I’ve seen–meaning she’s a good guy.

Speaking for someone else is fraught with danger as you’ve made clear to me but, I presume she was trying to make a joke about how I was feeling pain trying to understand what you were saying and she was relating your comment to my headache comment. My response was to ask to borrow her white hat–could I be a good guy, in other words. I was beginning to suspect that no matter how much I tried to wrap my tired brain around your words and respond appropriately that you were going to get angry with me. I wanted her white hat so you would see me not as the enemy but as a person who wants to talk even when we don’t agree.

The following may not be what happened but this is my perception: I feel that no matter how carefully I try to respond and how much I try and respect your words,(and you are an intelligent person so you have a lot to respect–I read your blog obviously I think you have something to say) you are taking offense. I don’t know if I am right but I am feeling beleaguered. “I’m telling you” was not said in a haranguing tone but in an attempt to explain myself. Apparently, I’m not doing that. I’m sorry that you aren’t feeling respected. I’m trying to convey respect to the best of my apparently limited ability.

Joe Blow
Guest
15 years ago

Kym,

There you go! Perception is truly in the eye of the beholder.

I was merely showing you how easy it WOULD be to take offense when “perceptions” get in the way of truth. Our intent manifests itself in our message. And thats what makes your stated goal “one of my goals here is to start a conversation between disparate parts of the community–I think talking and listening to different viewpoints help us treat each other better” difficult and fraught with risk. On the face of it, I’d have to say, you’re make pretty good progress.

What causes offense is when matters get personal. Opinions tend to be personal expressions of the writer or speaker. Emotions tend to cause one to lose perspective. Hence my reason for trying to stay or keep to observations. Perceptions are always ever-present and always seem to make their point. That’s what makes us all unique. Just remember, it’s NOT the understanding thats important. It is the experience getting there; it’s the process of connecting the dots. The fun part for me is that I know you know the answer. All and all, you helped me a lot.

Well, I learned something about Suzy. She hasn’t been to kind to me in the past. Maybe I’ll give her a pass. Us good-guys have to stick together, you know.

Staff
Member
15 years ago

Joe, I like this “it’s NOT the understanding thats important. It is the experience getting there” Now if I could just remember that and act upon it! Our behavior manifests our message. Something my sah Bum Nimh (teacher in my martial art) has on her wall is something like “what you are doing is shouting so loudly that I can’t hear what you say.” I keep trying to act my talk but succeeding much less than I would like.

And Suzy, she likes to poke fun at us all. I know my balloons need popping a lot so I hope she appears here more often.

Joe Blow
Guest
15 years ago

Kym,

You get lots of stuff and I was wondering if you read my final comment on the other thread?

To push the envelope just a shade, I said, as you quote above, “it’s NOT the understanding thats important. It is the experience getting there,” do you know why?

The answer is, your quote above: “what you are doing is shouting so loudly that I can’t hear what you say.” The truth is in what’s being done, “shouting so loudly,” NOT in the words or in understanding the words. Children instinctively understand this.

It is also the reason why you were unable or unwilling to define or identify the “problem” referenced in these two threads.

suzy blah blah
Guest
suzy blah blah
14 years ago

Well, I learned something about Suzy. She hasn’t been to kind to me in the past. Maybe I’ll give her a pass. Us good-guys have to stick together, you know.

That is soooo totally an awesome philosophy!! us good guys gotta stick together …to fight for –uh, i mean to fight against …er, um… we need to defeat the uh… Dont tell me the answer Joe, i almost got it… uh lets see, wait a minute its right on the tip on Suzys little tongue LOL –uh maybe if i have another hit of this bananapinapple kush i’ll be able to connect the …

uh the er… hey, –i’ll get bachacha when and if i do find The Answer but rite now i need to find my hat!!

oxo
s

Staff
Member
14 years ago

Joe, I would say it is because answers can only be applied to one question but how you get to the answer can be applied to many. Yes, I read the comment on the other post but didn’t respond to it as you said “we’ll leave it at that.”

I believe that taking away someone’s sovereignty (ie right to choose) leads to messes like the current one Humboldt is in with regards to marijuana but rural youth would seem to have more sovereignty that urban but they die in higher numbers. Maybe that is a byproduct of freedom.

Joe Blow
Guest
14 years ago

Kym, did you read this comment above?

suzy blah blah
March 28, 2009 at 4:30 pm
Well, I learned something about Suzy. She hasn’t been to kind to me in the past. Maybe I’ll give her a pass. Us good-guys have to stick together, you know.

That is soooo totally an awesome philosophy!! us good guys gotta stick together …to fight for –uh, i mean to fight against …er, um… we need to defeat the uh… Dont tell me the answer Joe, i almost got it… uh lets see, wait a minute its right on the tip on Suzys little tongue LOL –uh maybe if i have another hit of this bananapinapple kush i’ll be able to connect the …

uh the er… hey, –i’ll get bachacha when and if i do find The Answer but rite now i need to find my hat!!

oxo
s

If so, why no comment either to me, to her or in general?